My Point Proven!!

[socal1111]

I posted a while back about attempting to think about the game differently- trying not to get stuck in, "this is how we should play because X says so..." The game is always changing and evolving, so we should keep our eyes open for new ways, new ideas.

Everyone here hammered me, saying +EV will always be +EV, period. "It's not about theory, it's about proven strategies and stats," you said.

Well... Greenstein's, Doyle's, and all the other "proven ways" are becoming totally obsolete nowadays. Durr is proving my point, and shoving it in all of your faces!!! He's completely changing the way NL is played, as he toys with the "old way" of thinking. This is the best NL player anyone has ever seen. He's throwing the book out the window... making players who are considered the best in the world look like beginners!

Take note: The game is changing right in front of your noses, whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't change with it... kiss your BR goodbye, because those who evolve, adapt, and keep their focus on possibilities (rather than safety and comfort) are going to eat you up!!!

[vaks]

i loled

and i think your taking people too literally, poker is a very dynamic game and of course you have to adapt to certain situations... but coming out and posting this seems to be like you have a lot to learn before you will be able to move up from 25nl

[Stacks]

OP... So you are basically saying your play and durrrr's play is very similar?

Also the previous post you made was probably as retarded as this one I didn't read it. However, I highly doubt anyone credible said to stick to set rules/strats/dynamics, because anyone credible knows that you have to adjust often in poker.

Also learn something about poker and realize that durrrr isn't "throwing the book out of the window". He is absolutely playing by the book. He's just doing it much better than most others. "The Book" doesn't say to do this in so and so spot. It teaches you what to consider to in such situations and what to decide on. Durrrr is doing just that.

[settecba]

[AdamThePirate]

You tell them!

[settecba]

Have just read the other thread OP mentions. If you havent yet, enjoy:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ly-t72411.html

sarbox´ post close to the end is just great...

[AdamThePirate]

He spent a year stewing about a thread in BC... lol.

[Stacks]

4+4 still does not =1o btw. Just though I would be the first to let you know of your failure.

What's that? You want to copy durrrr's OLD AND PROVEN strategy?

[Blazing_Saddler]

I posted a while back about attempting to think about the game differently- trying not to get stuck in, "this is how we should play because X says so..." The game is always changing and evolving, so we should keep our eyes open for new ways, new ideas.

Everyone here hammered me, saying +EV will always be +EV, period. "It's not about theory, it's about proven strategies and stats," you said.

Well... Greenstein's, Doyle's, and all the other "proven ways" are becoming totally obsolete nowadays. Durr is proving my point, and shoving it in all of your faces!!! He's completely changing the way NL is played, as he toys with the "old way" of thinking. This is the best NL player anyone has ever seen. He's throwing the book out the window... making players who are considered the best in the world look like beginners!

Take note: The game is changing right in front of your noses, whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't change with it... kiss your BR goodbye, because those who evolve, adapt, and keep their focus on possibilities (rather than safety and comfort) are going to eat you up!!!

I'm not expert, but that statement is correct. + EV will always be +EV. There are many many different kinds of +EV situations, and they will always be +EV. Any given situation has many variables to take in to consideration.

Getting all your chips in pre flop against the best player in the world with AA, will always be +EV. That's the most simple of scenario's. You can go a million miles deeper than that, but it kind of gets the point over.

[socal1111]

Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!

Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??

He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"

[dranger7070]

Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!

Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??

He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"

So... you're saying play QT > flopped trips > AA?

[JKDS]

I dare you to show me a single new way, new thought, or different belief system. I FUCKING DARE YOU.

[tuuk2]

Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457

I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?

What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at.

Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457

I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?

What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at.

if you think durrrr fears getting played back at

[sil693]

Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!

Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??

He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"

durrrr felt it was +EV.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

[surviva316]

putting the legitimate points that everyone else is making in response to OP, there's also the obvious fact that this argument does not apply to 10NL (which seems to be your stakes) AT ALL! so long as ESPN shows the WSOP where Daniel Negraneau is pushing all in with KJo without telling us diddly about position, stack sizes, table image, fold equity, etc. then the dynamics at 10NL will NOT change, and we can continue to butt rape just by playing by the book.

once you get a good handle on the in's and out's of "the book" and you're playing against someone named Renton or Mirttinur or something (though the latter is unlikely) THEN you can adapt your game

[tuuk2]

Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457

I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?

What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at.

if you think durrrr fears getting played back at

No he doesn't fear getting played back at. That's what makes him dangerous. Fear isn't the right word, but a LAG doesn't want to see someone re-raising him when he's playing 8-6o and he missed the flop.

[OP]

HAHA Durrrr with 68? Huh, fold? I don't want to get played back at, what?

No, he fukin 5bets that shit right in Lederer's face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G10yj3QcjAg

sammygee17 (12 hours ago)
i lol'd at how shit lederer is

[birdman417]

Since Lederer is (i believe) a CEO at Full Tilt...every time Dwan plays there his rake gives money back to Lederer..Dwan pwned

IMO, Ultra Aggro makes for good TV..would we be talking about this if Lederer flopped a pair instead of Dwan?

Since Lederer is (i believe) a CEO at Full Tilt...every time Dwan plays there his rake gives money back to Lederer..Dwan pwned

IMO, Ultra Aggro makes for good TV..would we be talking about this if Lederer flopped a pair instead of Dwan?

so what, Lederer is so bad for flatting PF anyway

[oskar]

So you like durrr, eh?

Do you also like HU challanges? How about it? 50k hands... just you and me.
I will play by the book, and you can pwn me with your QTo.

[melinda1978]

i would like to know what is durrs proven stragedy never heard of it,thanks,

[2ndline.4thstreet]

You can call my all in when you have QT any day against my AA. In fact I beg you to...

[Extremophile]

I have been playing poker with play money for almost a year now and considering my experiences I should agree with you. Any two cards are good preflop or postflop. Just go all in and you will get lucky anyways.

[okiman]

OP... So you are basically saying your play and durrrr's play is very similar?

Also the previous post you made was probably as retarded as this one I didn't read it. However, I highly doubt anyone credible said to stick to set rules/strats/dynamics, because anyone credible knows that you have to adjust often in poker.

Also learn something about poker and realize that durrrr isn't "throwing the book out of the window". He is absolutely playing by the book. He's just doing it much better than most others. "The Book" doesn't say to do this in so and so spot. It teaches you what to consider to in such situations and what to decide on. Durrrr is doing just that.

To pick up on this point, look at the hands Durrrr plays in these shows and you'll see many of them are examples of Renton's ABCD theorem perfectly applied. The only difference is Durrrr has a much wider range of hands than most. But the way he plays them post flop is "by the book". Now, why does he play such a wide range? Because his post flop edge is so great against most any player, he can play ATC against most opponents and have it be +EV. The same way just about any decent player can play against a 90/3/0.5 fish with just about any starting hand due to the huge post flop edge against most players of this type. We've all done it to fish. Durrrr is just such a great player his definition of a fish includes way better players than our definition does.

well the players he plays against on HSP are kind of bad, they play as well as them 100NL tagfish
barry greenstein is decent, though