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pineapple sets leading to highest royalties

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  1. #1
    Eric's Avatar
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    Default pineapple sets leading to highest royalties

    We looked at our database to see what sets led to the highest royalties.

    *These are human hands/sets (we ignored bots).
    *These are hands where the player starts with 5 cards (hands where the player started with 14 cards in fl were ignored).

    initial_set royalties
    X / 3c5c / 5s6s7s 54
    X / 7d9d / TsQsAs 53
    Kc / JdJs / AhAs 51
    X / 4hTd / 3c4c5c 48
    X / 4h9h / 6d7d9d 47
    Qh / 4d9d / JcAc 45
    X / 6s / 5c6c7c8c 45
    2c / 6h / TsJsAs 45
    As / 4h4c / 8h8c 44
    X / 6dJd / 5c7c9c 44
    X / 8sAc / QcQdQh 43
    X / 7c7d / 2h3hAh 43
    X / 7c8s8c / 9d9c 42
    Qs / 7h8d / 4d4s 42
    X / 3s5h / 8c9cTc 42
    Qd / 8cKc / 7h7d 42
    Qd / 2hAs / 3d4d 42
    Qh / Kc / 3h3s9c 42
    X / 7sTs / TdJdAd 41
    X / 3sTc / 4d6d7d 41
    X / 5h9c / TcTdAd 41
    X / 5sJs / 4s4c4h 40
    X / 2s6c / 9sTcTd 40
    X / 2h3c / 8h9h9c 40
    Ad / 3s3c / QhQd 40
    X / 2d8s / 4h4sQh 40
    Ad / 3h8c / 4s9s 40
    X / 3c5d / 4c4hJd 40
    4h / 7d / JcJhJd 39
    X / 3c7c / 6c6s6h 39
    Ah / 2c8c / 3d3c 39
    X / 7h7c / JdQhQc 39
    Kc / X / 4d4sJhJd 39
    X / 7cJc / 6d9s9d 39
    X / 2d6s / 8s8d8h 39
    Kc / 3c6d / 7h7d 39
    X / 8d9d / 6hJhJc 39
    Ks / 4c6d / JdJs 39
    Kd / Jh / QhQcQs 39
    Qc / As / 6dTsTd 38
    QhQsQc / 6s7d / X 38
    X / 5c / 6c6d9h9s 38
    X / 8d / TsJsQsKs 38
    X / 5h7c / TdAsAd 38
    Ks / 4c4s / 8dTd 38
    X / 7c / 6h6cTdTc 38
    Kd / 3s6s / JcJs 38
    X / 2h9d / AsAdAh 38
    Qd / 4d5h / 8s9c 38
    X / 2s5s / 6s6c8h 38
    Kh / 3d4c / TsAs 38
    X / 2d3d / 9h9cJs 38
    Qd / 4c / 8h8c8s 38
    X / 6c7d / 8d8h8s 37
    Jd / 6h8h / 4cKc 37
    As / 4c5c / JdKd 37
    X / 2c4h / 9cTdTs 37
    X / 5h5s9h / JdAd 37
    2d / 3d3c / ThJh 37
    X / 3d / 4s4hKcKd 37
    X / 4c4d8d / TsJs 37
    X / 6s6d / TcJcQc 37
    X / 3h5h8h / TdKd 37
    Qc / 2s / 6sTdTh 37
    QcQd / X / 8cJhJd 37
    Qc / As / 6h7h8h 37
    X / 2s / 7c7s7d9h 37
    Qc / 5h5d / 9c9s 37
    Jd / Ks / 6c6h6d 37
    X / 7dKd / 5s5d8h 36
    X / KcKs / 4d6d7d 36
    X / 2d6d / 7c7sJh 36
    Ac / 2h5c / ThTc 36
    Ac / 5c7s / 9c9d 36
    X / 2hKh / TdKdAd 36
    8c / 4s6s / ThAh 36
    As / 2s / 6h6cQd 36
    X / 2d4c / 3h3c8h 36
    X / 9d9s / 8cTcJc 36
    X / 9d / TdTcQhQc 36
    Kc / 6dAd / QdQc 35
    X / 5d6c7h / AsAc 35
    Kd / Ah / 3h4s4h 35
    X / 4d6s / QdQcQh 35
    Qh / 6c / 4d6d8d 35
    Kd / 8d8c / 9sJs 35
    X / 3sAd / ThQhAh 35
    X / 7h7s / 8dTdQd 35
    Kh / AcAh / 8c9c 35
    X / 3c5c / 7h8hTh 35
    Ks / 2d8d / JhJc 35
    Kd / 2c9s / QhAh 35
    X / 7c9c / AsAhAc 35
    9h / 8d8c / KdKs 35
    X / 2h5h / 8d8cTc 35
    X / Jc / 2s3s4s5s 35
    X / 2c5s / 9cTsTd 35
    Kh / X / 2h2d5d5s 35
    Qs / 6d / 9d9h9c 35
    X / Ah / 2c2d5s5h 35
    Last edited by Eric; 11-04-2014 at 12:39 AM.
  2. #2
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    This one is in the top 30. It didn't look very promising at the start.
    Ad / 3h8c / 4s9s 40

    Here's another one that stands out. It's the most aggro open I've ever seen.
    QhQsQc / 6s7d / X 38
  3. #3
    Eric's Avatar
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    Yeah, a lot of crazy things happened with some of these sets...
  4. #4
    This is really interesting. Yeah like MMM said there are some outliers here but it's still useful data. It would be awesome if quantity could be added somehow for similar sets, but that may not be possible.

    It's easy to see how powerful three (or four) to a straight flush is when set in the back.

    I added some formatting to make it easier to read:

    # Top Mid Bottom Royalties
    1 X 35 567 54
    2 X 79 TQA 53
    3 K JJ AA 51
    4 X 4T 345 48
    5 X 49 679 47
    6 Q 49 JA 45
    7 X 6 5678 45
    8 2 6 TJA 45
    9 A 44 88 44
    10 X 6J 579 44
    11 X 8A QQQ 43
    12 X 77 23A 43
    13 X 788 99 42
    14 Q 78 44 42
    15 X 35 89T 42
    16 Q 8K 77 42
    17 Q 2A 34 42
    18 Q K 339 42
    19 X 7T TJA 41
    20 X 3T 467 41
    21 X 59 TTA 41
    22 X 5J 444 40
    23 X 26 9TT 40
    24 X 23 899 40
    25 A 33 QQ 40
    26 X 28 44Q 40
    27 A 38 49 40
    28 X 35 44J 40
    29 4 7 JJJ 39
    30 X 37 666 39
    31 A 28 33 39
    32 X 77 JQQ 39
    33 K X 44JJ 39
    34 X 7J 699 39
    35 X 26 888 39
    36 K 36 77 39
    37 X 89 6JJ 39
    38 K 46 JJ 39
    39 K J QQQ 39
    40 Q A 6TT 38
    41 QQQ 67 X 38
    42 X 5 6699 38
    43 X 8 TJQK 38
    44 X 57 TAA 38
    45 K 44 8T 38
    46 X 7 66TT 38
    47 K 36 JJ 38
    48 X 29 AAA 38
    49 Q 45 89 38
    50 X 25 668 38
    Last edited by givememyleg; 11-05-2014 at 01:12 PM. Reason: formatting
  5. #5
    # Top Mid Bottom Royalties
    51 K 34 TA 38
    52 X 23 99J 38
    53 Q 4 888 38
    54 X 67 888 37
    55 J 68 4K 37
    56 A 45 JK 37
    57 X 24 9TT 37
    58 X 559 JA 37
    59 2 33 TJ 37
    60 X 3 44KK 37
    61 X 448 TJ 37
    62 X 66 TJQ 37
    63 X 358 TK 37
    64 Q 2 6TT 37
    65 QQ X 8JJ 37
    66 Q A 678 37
    67 X 2 7779 37
    68 Q 55 99 37
    69 J K 666 37
    70 X 7K 558 36
    71 X KK 467 36
    72 X 26 77J 36
    73 A 25 TT 36
    74 A 57 99 36
    75 X 2K TKA 36
    76 8 46 TA 36
    77 A 2 66Q 36
    78 X 24 338 36
    79 X 99 8TJ 36
    80 X 9 TTQQ 36
    81 K 6A QQ 35
    82 X 567 AA 35
    83 K A 344 35
    84 X 46 QQQ 35
    85 Q 6 468 35
    86 K 88 9J 35
    87 X 3A TQA 35
    88 X 77 8TQ 35
    89 K AA 89 35
    90 X 35 78T 35
    91 K 28 JJ 35
    92 K 29 QA 35
    93 X 79 AAA 35
    94 9 88 KK 35
    95 X 25 88T 35
    96 X J 2345 35
    97 X 25 9TT 35
    98 K X 2255 35
    99 Q 6 999 35
    100 X A 2255 35
    Last edited by givememyleg; 11-05-2014 at 01:12 PM.
  6. #6
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    It's easy to see how powerful three (or four) to a straight flush is when set in the back.
    That was the first thing that jumped out at me, but it's not surprising that the highest scoring royalty is commonly found in the hands that score the highest royalties.

    It is not necessarily suggesting that setting a 3 or 4 card SF is a high EV decision, just that when it connects, it has high immediate value.
  7. #7
    Yeah, good point. This list is results oriented since it's showing sets that did connect. I mean I could set "A4 / A4 / A" and end up with 50+ points, but that doesn't make it a good set.

    Still interesting to pick out reoccurring patterns from though. The fact that 3-4 to a straight flush, and trips, show up so often does give it some strength.
  8. #8
    Eric's Avatar
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    How do I keep the table formatting but replace c, d, h and s with , , and respectively?
  9. #9
    Eric's Avatar
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    Here are the #1 to #50 replacements without the table:
    initial_set royalties
    X / 35 / 567 54
    X / 79 / TQA 53
    K / JJ / AA 51
    X / 4T / 345 48
    X / 49 / 679 47
    Q / 49 / JA 45
    X / 6 / 5678 45
    2 / 6 / TJA 45
    A / 44 / 88 44
    X / 6J / 579 44
    X / 8A / QQQ 43
    X / 77 / 23A 43
    X / 788 / 99 42
    Q / 78 / 44 42
    X / 35 / 89T 42
    Q / 8K / 77 42
    Q / 2A / 34 42
    Q / K / 339 42
    X / 7T / TJA 41
    X / 3T / 467 41
    X / 59 / TTA 41
    X / 5J / 444 40
    X / 26 / 9TT 40
    X / 23 / 899 40
    A / 33 / QQ 40
    X / 28 / 44Q 40
    A / 38 / 49 40
    X / 35 / 44J 40
    4 / 7 / JJJ 39
    X / 37 / 666 39
    A / 28 / 33 39
    X / 77 / JQQ 39
    K / X / 44JJ 39
    X / 7J / 699 39
    X / 26 / 888 39
    K / 36 / 77 39
    X / 89 / 6JJ 39
    K / 46 / JJ 39
    K / J / QQQ 39
    Q / A / 6TT 38
    QQQ / 67 / X 38
    X / 5 / 6699 38
    X / 8 / TJQK 38
    X / 57 / TAA 38
    K / 44 / 8T 38
    X / 7 / 66TT 38
    K / 36 / JJ 38
    X / 29 / AAA 38
    Q / 45 / 89 38
    X / 25 / 668 38
  10. #10
    Eric's Avatar
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    And 51 to 100:

    K / 34 / TA 38
    X / 23 / 99J 38
    Q / 4 / 888 38
    X / 67 / 888 37
    J / 68 / 4K 37
    A / 45 / JK 37
    X / 24 / 9TT 37
    X / 559 / JA 37
    2 / 33 / TJ 37
    X / 3 / 44KK 37
    X / 448 / TJ 37
    X / 66 / TJQ 37
    X / 358 / TK 37
    Q / 2 / 6TT 37
    QQ / X / 8JJ 37
    Q / A / 678 37
    X / 2 / 7779 37
    Q / 55 / 99 37
    J / K / 666 37
    X / 7K / 558 36
    X / KK / 467 36
    X / 26 / 77J 36
    A / 25 / TT 36
    A / 57 / 99 36
    X / 2K / TKA 36
    8 / 46 / TA 36
    A / 2 / 66Q 36
    X / 24 / 338 36
    X / 99 / 8TJ 36
    X / 9 / TTQQ 36
    K / 6A / QQ 35
    X / 567 / AA 35
    K / A / 344 35
    X / 46 / QQQ 35
    Q / 6 / 468 35
    K / 88 / 9J 35
    X / 3A / TQA 35
    X / 77 / 8TQ 35
    K / AA / 89 35
    X / 35 / 78T 35
    K / 28 / JJ 35
    K / 29 / QA 35
    X / 79 / AAA 35
    9 / 88 / KK 35
    X / 25 / 88T 35
    X / J / 2345 35
    X / 25 / 9TT 35
    K / X / 2255 35
    Q / 6 / 999 35
    X / A / 2255 35
  11. #11
    Eric's Avatar
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    Right, using royalties and fouls to see the performance of a bot has merit because the extra royalties for fl hands were added but fouls were subtracted.

    Here we're just noting the sets behind the highest royalties even though some of these sets are not the highest ev set available for the 5 cards in question. Also, we're treating all royalties equally so that the difference between JJ2 / KK234 // AA234 and QQ2 / KK234 / AA234 is just 1 point. The true difference is about 11 points because the QQ hand is worth an extra 10 or so because of the fl it set up.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    How do I keep the table formatting but replace c, d, h and s with , , and respectively?
    Added suits.
  13. #13
    Geez, these are based on super-small sample sizes (what happened on one particular hand), so I don't think this info is all that useful.

    Some of the most profitable sets you list look somewhere between slightly non-optimal (e.g. K / JJ / AA instead of K / AA / JJ, which I think just has to be more profitable long-term) to outright stupid (e.g. QhQsQc / 6s7d / X 38, presumably after the first draw, which someone may have made a monster out of on that particular hand but will blow up the vast majority of the time). I don't see much value in looking at what set someone lucked into a monster in on one particular hand. I think it would be much more valuable to look at which sets led to the biggest royalties over thousands of hands. Anyone can get lucky once by taking a non-optimal line and hitting the perfect cards for it (such as putting the trip Q on top on the first draw above), but what will help you become a better player is looking at outcomes over large numbers of hands.

    For example, in the other hand I cited (K / JJ / AA or K / AA / JJ), I could be wrong, but I'd have to a see a simulation of thousands of hands in which K / JJ / AA outperformed K / AA / JJ to convince me that it really is a better set.
  14. #14
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneByPhi View Post
    Geez, these are based on super-small sample sizes (what happened on one particular hand), so I don't think this info is all that useful.

    Some of the most profitable sets you list look somewhere between slightly non-optimal (e.g. K / JJ / AA instead of K / AA / JJ, which I think just has to be more profitable long-term) to outright stupid (e.g. QhQsQc / 6s7d / X 38, presumably after the first draw, which someone may have made a monster out of on that particular hand but will blow up the vast majority of the time). I don't see much value in looking at what set someone lucked into a monster in on one particular hand. I think it would be much more valuable to look at which sets led to the biggest royalties over thousands of hands. Anyone can get lucky once by taking a non-optimal line and hitting the perfect cards for it (such as putting the trip Q on top on the first draw above), but what will help you become a better player is looking at outcomes over large numbers of hands.

    For example, in the other hand I cited (K / JJ / AA or K / AA / JJ), I could be wrong, but I'd have to a see a simulation of thousands of hands in which K / JJ / AA outperformed K / AA / JJ to convince me that it really is a better set.
    I agree that some of these sets are -EV.

    We only have about 1 millions hands so far - I'm not sure if that is enough data to look at this in a more meaningful way.
  15. #15
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    Should we look at something more specific? Maybe sets like QKAXX where X is not another Q, K or A? In this case I think it is usually best to set QK top and A mid. Others might say Q top and AK mid is better. Might it be interesting to see what our data says?

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