$100NL - TT vs nit 3-bet pot

[JL]

Villain is running 18/15/7(3bet). No other reads that apply to this situation.

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($218.75)
CO ($140.35)
Hero ($113.55)
SB ($100)
BB ($171.80)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $7

Flop: ($21, 2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16

Turn: ($53, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($53, 2 players)
SB bets $35, Hero...?

This situation comes up a lot for me, and I usually give villain a ton of credit here for a hand.
If I was villain, I wouldn't bluff here because I would expect to get called by most pairs.

[JL]

Wow this hand is almost identical to Carroters lol.

oops

[pocketfours]

oops

[griffey24]

I don't think they are that identical, though it seems that way.

In this hand, villain is more nitty. In this hand, and on this particular board, someone is way more likely to slow play a strong hand on the turn and bet river than in carroters hand.

I would find an easier fold in this hand, than in Carroters hand. Nits love to play AA/KK like this, figuring they are nits and will only get two streets and are more likely to get two streets with his line.

I'd fold.

[Mr. Diamond]

omg griffey u are sooo sick. very good post

[JL]

I don't think they are that identical, though it seems that way.

In this hand, villain is more nitty. In this hand, and on this particular board, someone is way more likely to slow play a strong hand on the turn and bet river than in carroters hand.

I would find an easier fold in this hand, than in Carroters hand. Nits love to play AA/KK like this, figuring they are nits and will only get two streets and are more likely to get two streets with his line.

I'd fold.

Thanks griffey.

What are your thoughts on this hand if villain is an aggro reg with stats like 26/22, 10% 3bet, 3.5 AF?

[griffey24]

Thanks griffey.

What are your thoughts on this hand if villain is an aggro reg with stats like 26/22, 10% 3bet, 3.5 AF?

Against that type of player, I'm probably 4betting/getting it in pre.

But as for post, I'd probably bet like $15 on the turn and let him do something spazzy.

Probably need a feel/timing read on the river decision.

[sauce123]

u need ot bet turn here for protection/value

[nutsinho]

^^

[Mr. Diamond]

u need ot bet turn here for protection/value

yeah I want to bet turn too, but have a question - what is your betsizing??

- at my limit (50NL) I see regs often check/shove turn on boards like this w/ AA, KK - so we don't have the best hand here always
- I think something like 1/3 pot seems like value bet, and if we bet something like 2/3 pot villain will fold everything worse
- so something like 1/2 pot and fold to shove, unless we know, that he can spazz out??

[griffey24]

I would bet like $20, and definitely not expect to get bluff jammed on here, esp not on this board.

b/f for sure vs this playing on this board.

[Robin]

Question for the turn raisers: Is bet/folding the turn for $20 better than raise/folding the flop for $20 more?

I don't see why, unless we think he's playing the turn badly (i.e. leading with his most of his value hands and not much else so we can do well by folding when he bets and betting when he checks).

Can someone explain?

Is the river a call if he's betting his whole range in that spot?

[griffey24]

Question for the turn raisers: Is bet/folding the turn for $20 better than raise/folding the flop for $20 more?

I don't see why, unless we think he's playing the turn badly (i.e. leading with his most of his value hands and not much else so we can do well by folding when he bets and betting when he checks).

Can someone explain?

Is the river a call if he's betting his whole range in that spot?

Raise/folding the flop is turning our hand into a bluff. We might as well have 56ss. He's only continuing with better and folding worse.

Bet/folding the turn isn't turning our hand into a bluff. We have more information on the strength (weakness) of his hand, because he has now checked. There is also a c/c range by villain that will be worse than our hand.

[Micro2Macro]

I think I like betting $16 on turn for our entire range.

[vaks]

interesting... I get in spots similar to this very often and usually check back turn with intentions to call most rivers (fold most when overs hit though)

so when called I'm guessing we are folding to any river bets and checking behind all rivers when checked to?

what kind of a hand would we want to check back more on this turn? something like KQ? AJ? type of hands, and just plain air?

[Mr. Diamond]

interesting... I get in spots similar to this very often and usually check back turn with intentions to call most rivers (fold most when overs hit though)

so when called I'm guessing we are folding to any river bets and checking behind all rivers when checked to?

what kind of a hand would we want to check back more on this turn? something like KQ? AJ? type of hands, and just plain air?

1) I think checking back is mistake - you lose value vs 87, A5, etc. and you don't want to give him free card


2) we can bet T, 3 and small card blanks for value
- I would check back A, K, Q, J, 8 and maybe 5 (not sure)


3) I think it depends...

[griffey24]

I'd check back in a spot that I wasn't sure how to react to a turn c/r, or a spot where I expect villain to bluff rivers wide if I ck but not c/c light.