$100NL - couple hands from tonight

[griffey24]

Hey guys,

here are a couple hands from tonight that I'd like some help with, in terms of the line I took in each.

Hand 1:

-villain is 21/3.88/3
-villains turn bet seemed weak. Is there any value to a raise there?
should i just be trying for a cheap showdown?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $160.09
CO: $93
Hero: $121
SB: $51
BB: $143.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG raises to $4, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: ($16.5, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $11.75, BB raises to $28, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: ($72.5, 2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises to $27, BB calls.

River: ($126.5, 2 players)
BB bets $40, Hero folds.

Hand #2

-villain is 20/15.6/4 (over pretty small sample, so maybe irrelevant)
-Is this river a standard fold/call? or entirely dependent on villain?
-I have no real reads on villain in terms of bet sizing, and what big/small
bets mean from him

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $61.75
Hero: $93
CO: $171.25
Button: $145.25
SB: $265.50
BB: $84.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with
UTG folds, Hero raises to $4, CO folds, Button raises to $10, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: ($21.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $13, Hero calls.

Turn: ($47.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($47.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $40, Hero ??

[swiggidy]

hand 1 - I don't see much value in raising, if you do make it a substantial raise. Your raise sucks. River is probably good

hand 2 - fold the flop. 6 clean outs, OOP. River is easy fold, you only beat a bluff.

[griffey24]

hand 2 - fold the flop. 6 clean outs, OOP. River is easy fold, you only beat a bluff.

-you don't think its worth calling this flop in a re-raised pot? I can't see any hand villain would re-raise with that would have the flush draw here to kill my straight outs. I figured in this spot, my hand is well hidden, and I could almost certainly stack him if I turn my straight.

-in a multiway pot, I agree that calling with this straight draw could be trouble, since other players could be on a flush draw and my outs would be dead.

[Miffed22001]

Are you sure he has a higher flush in 1 on the flop? Im 3betting here on the flop versus 2pair/set type hands.

im wondering what you could have done on the turn in hand2. I think its correct to call the bet and take a turn card. River is an obvious fold

[ihategnomes]

Hand 1:

m 3betting here on the flop versus 2pair/set type hands.

Raising the turn is pretty ugly.

Hand 2:

Can anyone here find a fold preflop. QJ is in a hurtlock against most taggish players 3 betting range and our position is the suck.

[swiggidy]

Hand 2:

Can anyone here find a fold preflop.

My first thought while re-reading my response. Toss it preflop.

No I don't see value in calling. If villain doesn't have a flush draw (likely), what do you put him on? KK, so you still have 6 outs, AA, ya you'll stack him. AK, 7 outs, but is he stacking off if the flush hits? Do you know enough about villain to make representing the flush +eV, doesn't sound like it? Will he stack off if an 8 hits?

[griffey24]

Are you sure he has a higher flush in 1 on the flop? Im 3betting here on the flop versus 2pair/set type hands.

I thought about 3-betting the flop, but figured I would flat call in position and bump any non-diamond turn. As the case may be, it was a diamond, but his bet made him seem weak, so I tried to raise him a bit for value. If we 3-bet the flop, can we/should we fold to a push? probably not..

im wondering what you could have done on the turn in hand2. I think its correct to call the bet and take a turn card. River is an obvious fold

Calling when people describe things as "obvious folds" makes me feel like a donk.. lol.. maybe thats why I can't seem to beat 100NL. His bet seemed too strong to me (almost pot) after I had checked to him twice, showing no strength...so I called.... and I'm sure we know what happened then..

I agree, the spot to fold this was probably pre-flop. It just seemed hard to fold to what was so close to a min-raise. If villain min re-raised us preflop, would we fold then? Seems too tight...

No I don't see value in calling.

Thanks for the replies swiggidy. I think this could be a leak in my game, that I certainly don't think into that much detail when making these flop calls with OESD, in HU pots. I rarely fold to a standard flop continuation bet with an OESD. On the turn, if I miss and villain fires again, I can often find a fold here. But rarely on the flop... is this a leak? I feel like most people make this flop call, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Thanks again for all the help so far guys!

[ihategnomes]

I agree, the spot to fold this was probably pre-flop. It just seemed hard to fold to what was so close to a min-raise. If villain min re-raised us preflop, would we fold then? Seems too tight...

Your out of position and your reverse implied odds are through the roof. Flopping a Q or J cant cost us a lot of money.

[elipsesjeff]

Hand 1: I 3bet pretty large here on the flop and raising that turn is sooo bad.

Hand 2: Fold preflop but I call this flop bet. You can't assume he has a flush draw here and if it hits on the turn you'll likely get a free river card, especially getting pot odds of almost 3-1 and with a redraw to the J not that it'll help.

[Renton]

threebet the flop all in in hand one with flopped flushes or flopped sets