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Randomness thread, part two.

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  1. #19051
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    You dont seriously believe that children are capable of the same scale of tragedies w/o guns. You know quite well that guns are the only reason mass school deaths by children are even possible. Ok, bombs and plagues and such too, but those are controlled as well. There is no child capable of killing his entire class by arming himself with a knife or spear.
    There are some pretty big mass killings with knives.

    There are a lot of ways to more effectively kill people than shooting up schools. Shooting up schools is popular, um, probably because of how glorified it is The typical killers' priorities are to strike fear into the hearts of the nation and to be anti-heroes. If it was just about the killing, they typically wouldn't be interested in massacres.
  2. #19052
    Renton, you think everyone should be free to build a dirty bomb? I really don't want to be condescending here, but isn't this a red flag warning that your ideology has lead you astray?
  3. #19053
    And wuf, I'm pretty sure you don't agree with this, yet you quote Renton and offer a vague co-sign of his overall post, "some really good points." I mean, this is essentially Trump telling that supporter who asked about Obama being a Muslim, "Well, yeah, we're going to look into that."

    It's kind of telling that you two rarely, if ever, contradict each other whenever something in the realm of governance comes up. Are you interested in honest dialogue, or are you trying to win a point for your side?
  4. #19054
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    And wuf, I'm pretty sure you don't agree with this, yet you quote Renton and offer a vague co-sign of his overall post, "some really good points." I mean, this is essentially Trump telling that supporter who asked about Obama being a Muslim, "Well, yeah, we're going to look into that."

    It's kind of telling that you two rarely, if ever, contradict each other whenever something in the realm of governance comes up. Are you interested in honest dialogue, or are you trying to win a point for your side?
    I don't know how anti-government Renton is, but I'm 100% anti-government, meaning that I think taxes shouldn't exist and there should be no law monopoly telling anybody what they can or can't do. This includes dirty bombs or nukes or death rays from outer space.

    Now, if my logic goes only this far, then it's utterly ridiculous. But it doesn't end here. I don't support that behavior at all. I think anybody who is building a dirty bomb should have a bullet put between his eyes. Renton probably does too. Notice where he said that people should "face the consequences" of their actions. I fully support making production of dirty bombs the hardest thing in the world to do, but I do not support a violence monopoly having the power to be the only regulator of this. The reason for this distinction is that I think that the violence monopoly is actually less effective at deterring rogues than a competitive market is. I've said before that I think if security was a market, nuclear weapons would be eradicated. Nukes are an enormous liability to the profit incentive in the market, but they're pretty much the biggest piece of equity a violence monopoly can have. It's no wonder that the world has so many nukes when the system incentivizes that behavior.

    So when I (and probably Renton) say something like "people should be free to harm others", I also think that people should be free to stop people from harming others. I know that in a law market, the type of law insurance company I would purchase would be VERY rigorous in preventing initiation of violence.

    If you're not sure why I think the fact that I don't support violence shouldn't just mean that I support monopolized laws against those things, it's because monopolies don't work as well as markets. Our governments, the violence and law monopolies and tax regimes that they are, have done a horrible job so far, and I believe the economic principles for why monopolies don't work that well are the reasons why.
  5. #19055
    It should be noted that the government is only capable of enforcing laws that the people value at large. This is consistent with the common defense of democracy, that the government exists by the will of the people and is subjected to the will of the people. This means that ultimately the values the government holds must be consistent with the values of the country, so to speak.

    The government doesn't protect us from war. People protect us from war. We protect us from war. We do not want war to a great degree, and if a government official campaigned to drop a nuke on Canada, we would vote him out. This is why it is not unreasonable to say that a market can handle security of even the most destructive weapons. The government is not saving us from ourselves. We're not sitting here crying "but weeee waaaaant waaaar" and the government says "daddy knows what's best". In a security market, consumers would still value "don't drop nukes on Canada" policies and companies would exist to serve this choice. The transmission of that message would actually be far more powerful too.
  6. #19056
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    You dont seriously believe that children are capable of the same scale of tragedies w/o guns. You know quite well that guns are the only reason mass school deaths by children are even possible. Ok, bombs and plagues and such too, but those are controlled as well. There is no child capable of killing his entire class by arming himself with a knife or spear.
    You're wrong about what I believe / know quite well on both counts.

    You couldn't even finish the paragraph before your non-violent mind came up with some creative solutions to the quandary. Even if the knife/spear is true (probably not a statistical certainty), it's not the entire list of non-gun options available to them.

    "Bombs" are controlled? Sure, OK.
    I deleted a couple of quite simple ways to figure out how to make very dangerous stuff with commonly available chemicals.
    Just for one simple example which isn't deleted: a potato gun takes a couple of hours to build, is powered by hairspray, and can be easily modified to launch something worse than a potato, or modified to a much more destructive purpose.

    As a child, my friends and I went to the gas station, bought a couple of the oversized lighters and went into the woods to use one of them to light the other one on fire. We literally made a fire bomb out of two lighters as kids of ~12. We had no intent to hurt anyone, and no one was hurt, but the idea that making a bomb is hard for kids has a steep dropoff rate around age 11 to 17 for some kids.

    You can't possibly stop someone with the creativity and determination from being able to make a big boom. The materials are literally everywhere, and you can't possibly control things like "over-pressured containers" or fire.

    Furthermore, anyone who commits a pre-meditated mass murder is not a "child" anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    And you are not naive enough to believe any person and their gun stands any chance against an army. It is not the 1700s. We dont fight in militias anymore, and a single drone is all it takes to wipe you off the map before you can even load your whatever. Maybe the people currently undergoing genocide would be better off with guns, but their fight is different than whatever fight Americans will face.
    This is an argument for less regulation, not more.

    I live in St Louis. It was always going to be a "first response" target for nuclear strike by the Russians during the cold war. St Louis was making missile warheads at the time. There's literally nothing I could do about it. I don't think there's any good argument that myself or my neighbors should wield something powerful enough to stop an ICBM, much less our own ICBMs.

    So I agree there have to be limits. Anything you can make in your basement in less than a week from commonly available items, though... if you regulate this class of things, then you simply inconvenience honest people, and do nothing to criminals at all.

    @underline: There are far too many human variables for anyone to possibly know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    I have a constitutional right to life. Thats not entitlement.
    Your right to life is not a right to peace. It is not a right to be free from witnessing violence.

    Your argument that the people who weren't killed that day somehow have a right to not have been near it is entitlement.
    I don't accept it. I've heard and seen some crazy stuff. Mind-numbing stuff. Life is hard. Shit happens. You have a right to face that mind-numbing, hard shit, to seek happiness amid the turmoil.

    You do not have a right to happiness.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 10-03-2015 at 03:06 AM.
  7. #19057
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Renton, you think everyone should be free to build a dirty bomb? I really don't want to be condescending here, but isn't this a red flag warning that your ideology has lead you astray?
    Well since I said it in my brain, typed it, then reviewed it and clicked submit, I think its fairly safe to say that I didn't get a red flag warning at any point.

    I will say that I wasn't clear about one aspect of the point I was trying to make there. I'm not so much talking about the implementation as about the reason for the law itself. It's reasonable to have a law against making a dirty bomb because the act of making a dirty bomb is 99% consistent with the intention of hurting a lot of people. You can then make laws against anything that fits this criteria, and remain logically consistent. Liberals want that criteria to be "anything that can possibly hurt anyone," and that was the point of my post.
  8. #19058
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    The largest school-related mass killing in American history was not performed with guns.

    If guns were the big driving reason that school shootings were happening like they have been, then they would have happened more often before Columbine.

    Liberals and logic are like oil and water.
  9. #19059
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    You dont seriously believe that children are capable of the same scale of tragedies w/o guns. You know quite well that guns are the only reason mass school deaths by children are even possible. Ok, bombs and plagues and such too, but those are controlled as well. There is no child capable of killing his entire class by arming himself with a knife or spear.
    lol no
  10. #19060
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Liberals and logic are like oil and water.
    So by arguing for a liberal amount of freedom, I'm somehow being logical?

    The funny thing is that I get called "a liberal" for most of my views. *shrug*
  11. #19061
    liberal is a very weird word. it wasn't so long ago that liberal meant a proponent of the free market, but now it means an oft antagonist to the free market. there's also a good deal of overlap between liberals and conservatives when abstracting about certain policies that disappear when the policies are viewed more concretely.

    one of the most accurate simplistic descriptions of the left and right ive come across is that the left is made up of a large group of generally pro-government people and the right is made up of fractured groups of people who are irritated by the left. this makes a lot of sense to me. the right isn't that anti-government at all, and the factions are not that similar to each other. but the right does very much dislike the left.

    i hope one day there will be a significant enough political faction whose organizing ideology is pro-markets. right now maybe 5% or so of voters specifically vote against government intervention.
  12. #19062
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    So by arguing for a liberal amount of freedom, I'm somehow being logical?

    The funny thing is that I get called "a liberal" for most of my views. *shrug*
    Nobody was talking to anyone at the kids' table.
  13. #19063
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    The largest school-related mass killing in American history was not performed with guns.

    If guns were the big driving reason that school shootings were happening like they have been, then they would have happened more often before Columbine.

    Liberals and logic are like oil and water.
    Because an adult making a bomb means we shouldn't make it harder for children to shoot children. Oh please.

    School knifings have happened. There was a PA one recently. The death toll was 0. Turns out, it's hard to kill someone when you don't use a gun or explosive...both of which should be heavily controlled.

    And this argument of "why haven't more bad things happened before gun control"...they did. One of our presidents was assasinated, and the mafia was kind of a big deal.
    Last edited by JKDS; 10-03-2015 at 02:07 PM.
  14. #19064
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    @mmm: gun control is not about making death impossible. It's about making it much more difficult. The set of people capable of making a bomb successfully and implementing it successfully is much smaller than the set of people able to fire a gun. That's undeniable.

    But it's more than the fact that guns are efficient and easy. It's psychologically much simpler too. A kid making a bomb would need weeks to figure it out. Weeks where he has to commit to his actions and thoughts. A kid with a gun needs an hour to find where his daddy hid it.

    To say either of these differences are meaningless or that they necessitate 0 gun control...idk how that makes sense at all.

    Im sorry you experienced whatever it is you experienced. But I'm not being entitled, you're being selfish because the world wasn't fair to you. If we took your answer to small pox, the disease would still be here. Bad things happen, stop being entitled, is NOT a reason to avoid bettering ourselves and preventing death.
    Last edited by JKDS; 10-03-2015 at 02:23 PM.
  15. #19065
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Nobody was talking to anyone at the kids' table.
    I hope it felt good to get that out.
    SMH

    I guess I appreciate the paradox of being utterly childish while accusing someone else of being a child.

    *shrug*
  16. #19066
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Because an adult making a bomb means we shouldn't make it harder for children to shoot children. Oh please.

    School knifings have happened. There was a PA one recently. The death toll was 0. Turns out, it's hard to kill someone when you don't use a gun or explosive...both of which should be heavily controlled.

    And this argument of "why haven't more bad things happened before gun control"...they did. One of our presidents was assasinated, and the mafia was kind of a big deal.
    There has been no school shooting in the United States in the past 25 years where a child shot a child.
  17. #19067
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    @mmm: gun control is not about making death impossible. It's about making it much more difficult.
    I agree. I just might disagree about where the line should be drawn. I don't actually know what your position is as pertains to "regulation." I agree that some weapons should be regulated, and not others.

    I don't think the answer is, "The kids that got shot should have had guns."
    I don't think the answer is, "No one should have guns."

    Your right to not be killed has nothing to do with my right to use a deadly weapon to not kill you.
    I even have a driver's license. I am licensed to use a machine capable of lethal damage to myself and to others. So the idea that something is "easy to find and use" is a compelling argument for why that thing should be regulated. However, it says nothing to the degree or nature of the regulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    The set of people capable of making a bomb successfully and implementing it successfully is much smaller than the set of people able to fire a gun. That's undeniable.
    I deny it.

    There's a gas station within walking distance of me that will happily sell me a gas can, full of gas, a rag and a lighter and not bat an eye about it. I'm pretty sure any child knows that gas is flammable and that fire can hurt and/or kill people. There are even signs on the gas pump warning you that gasoline may explode if it is not in a well-ventilated container.
    *wink wink*
    The information is literally everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    But it's more than the fact that guns are efficient and easy. It's psychologically much simpler too. A kid making a bomb would need weeks to figure it out. Weeks where he has to commit to his actions and thoughts. A kid with a gun needs an hour to find where his daddy hid it.
    I hope I've dispelled your notion that it would take weeks to figure out. I think the ~1 hour time frame is about the same for a trip to the gas station with a $10 bill.

    Psychologically... I guess... maybe... but neither of us is a psychologist.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    To say either of these differences are meaningless or that they necessitate 0 gun control...idk how that makes sense at all.
    I said neither of those things. I said the differences you perceive are not differences in my perception. I never argued for 0 gun control.

    To restate about differences:
    "Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right"
    -Ani Difranco

    Frankly, I am not opposed to much more licensing and safety permits for a wider group of weapons. It doesn't take much to get a driver's license, and anything potentially as lethal should have a similar licensing requirement and be legal. A hunting rifle is a perfectly acceptable tool for a hunter to own. Given the appropriate licensing, he may own a tool which has the primary function of delivering lethal power. Anything which has a primary use of commensurate lethal power should be legal to anyone with commensurate licensing.

    Restricting the freedoms of 99% of the people to prevent a minority from doing hurtful things is not acceptable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Im sorry you experienced whatever it is you experienced. But I'm not being entitled, you're being selfish because the world wasn't fair to you. If we took your answer to small pox, the disease would still be here. Bad things happen, stop being entitled, is NOT a reason to avoid bettering ourselves and preventing death.
    I appreciate that, but really I'm a lucky SOB in the grand scheme of things.
    I've heard far too many stories of brutality first hand, but even those are pale in comparison to what goes on in the world.
    I recall the images from Rwanda. St Louis has a large refugee population from Bosnia. Genocide is happening in our lives.

    I'm not being selfish when I say that brutal humans are among us, and they tend to prey on other humans they perceive as defenseless. I'm not being selfish when I say that you do not have the right to tell someone they cannot own the tools of their livelihood. I'm not being selfish when I doubt your prophetic authority to predict how or when people may need to defend themselves from "immoral assault."

    Not all death should be prevented. I'm neither against capital punishment, nor am I against a violent revolution to overthrow corrupt and abusive regimes of power. I do believe that no one can predict what swings in morality may take to any culture.

    I don't follow you on the small pox bit. I'm arguing that humans are brutal and unpredictable, and whether or not they have guns is not the issue at hand. To abuse your metaphor, I'm saying don't treat the small pox as a skin disease.
  18. #19068
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  19. #19069
    lol: "But that percentage dropped to 42 per cent once the woman had had pre-marital sex with at least two partners"

    Where the hell did they find these people.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  20. #19070
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    I want to point out that it's something that's been replicated in many Western countries over and over again. It's not a fluke.
  21. #19071
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    lol: "But that percentage dropped to 42 per cent once the woman had had pre-marital sex with at least two partners"

    Where the hell did they find these people.
    The study tracked the relationships of a representative national sample in America of 1,294 unmarried men and women aged 18-34.

    The researchers followed the subjects for five years. In that time, 418 were married.
    This looks like typical Daily Mail nonsense to me. The married sample size is 418. The population of the subject nation is 318 million. They studied these people for five years, when successful marriages are measured in decades. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that spoon is being really clever with his trolling when he says "truth hurts" while linking DM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #19072
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This looks like typical Daily Mail nonsense to me. The married sample size is 418. The population of the subject nation is 318 million. They studied these people for five years, when successful marriages are measured in decades. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that spoon is being really clever with his trolling when he says "truth hurts" while linking DM.
    Take that up with the National Marriage Project. Just because the Daily Mail reports on something doesn't make it illegitimate.

    Additionally, you do not understand sample sizes or the concept of representative samples.

    Also, take it up with the several other studies that have found the exact same thing.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-04-2015 at 08:54 AM.
  23. #19073
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Take that up with the National Marriage Project. Just because the Daily Mail reports on something doesn't make it illegitimate.

    Additionally, you do not understand sample sizes.

    Also, take it up with the several other studies that have found the exact same thing.
    Well I was unaware of any other studies, seeing as I don't see reference to it in the article, and you don't mention that in your initial post. I missed your second post before responding.

    Still, I was expecting trash before I even opened the link. DM is standard trash british tabloids. Sure they report actual facts sometimes, but they're still British tabloid who print whatever they think will sell papers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #19074
    Did I ninja that successfully?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #19075
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Random, but were you around when commune posts didn't count towards your visible post total? I just thought of that for some reason.
  26. #19076
    My post count trebled when werewolf posts were included.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #19077
    It's true, the Daily Mail is not exactly known for being reputable. I had the same reaction Ong, but then figured I ought to at least check out the National Marriage Project. Despite its name, it doesn't seem ideologically-driven or biased (although if you actually read the study, which I did, the language vaguely suggests otherwise... Hard to tell where their motives lie)

    What's important to assess is why satisfaction rates drop, not if. The possible reasons are myriad, and probably have a lot to do with our sexually repressive culture. After all, 22% is just fine.

    (I originally wrote "repressively sexual" culture which makes me laugh, totally opposite meaning haha. Although on second thought maybe there is a truth in that wording as well...)
    Last edited by aubreymcfate; 10-04-2015 at 01:19 PM.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  28. #19078
    Mass shootings and victim culture have a symbiotic relationship. When the gunman goes from person to person, asking them what religion they are before he shoots them, and only one person fights back, taking seven bullets with him, there is something seriously wrong with our culture. The instilled belief that we must be victims, that we must never fight for ourselves or others, that we must wait for others to solve problems, that the government is responsible for our safety, are the reasons that mass shootings yield such high fatalities. Furthermore, they're probably why mass shootings have the frequency they do. The gunman expects the victims' codependent relationship with him in order for them to fulfill their destiny of being the victims that culture tells them they are.

    Teach personal responsibility and that social justice leftism is the Siren's lure, and watch as gunmen lose their power to paralyze and slaughter.
  29. #19079
    Also, the truth doesn't hurt for those of us who know what we need and find it
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  30. #19080
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    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    It's true, the Daily Mail is not exactly known for being reputable. I had the same reaction Ong, but then figured I ought to at least check out the National Marriage Project. Despite its name, it doesn't seem ideologically-driven or biased (although if you actually read the study, which I did, the language vaguely suggests otherwise... Hard to tell where their motives lie)

    What's important to assess is why satisfaction rates drop, not if. The possible reasons are myriad, and probably have a lot to do with our sexually repressive culture. After all, 22% is just fine.

    (I originally wrote "repressively sexual" culture which makes me laugh, totally opposite meaning haha. Although on second thought maybe there is a truth in that wording as well...)
    I'd argue that our culture is no longer sexually repressive and that the opposite is true to the point of fault.
  31. #19081
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I'd argue that our culture is no longer sexually repressive and that the opposite is true to the point of fault.
    maybe for generation z.
  32. #19082
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    Making sex before marriage illegal would eliminate teen pregnancy in the same way that making guns illegal would eliminate people getting shot.
  33. #19083
    Nice segue.

    I liked these two recent tweets by Thaddeus Russell:

    To get to the root of mass shootings the left needs to see whiteness and masculinity as systems of repression, not just oppression.

    I would rather understand and address the prevalence of homicidal unhappiness than have the police conduct house-to-house searches for guns.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  34. #19084
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    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    Nice segue.

    I liked these two recent tweets by Thaddeus Russell:

    To get to the root of mass shootings the left needs to see whiteness and masculinity as systems of repression, not just oppression.

    I would rather understand and address the prevalence of homicidal unhappiness than have the police conduct house-to-house searches for guns.
    There's an idea in what could be called the game section of the "red pill" community that systematic demasculinization and demonization of masculinity is a large contributing factor in a number of the shootings and other random acts of violence. Primarily, they're talking about a lack of understanding of being able to talk to, somewhat understand and deal with women along with an understanding of being responsible for one's own growth (and increased ability to attract the opposite sex). Here are a few quick examples:

    1. For Andreas Lubitz (the plane crash guy), he was a distinctively beta tryhard who basically hijacked and crashed the plane because a chick dumped him and wouldn't get back with him.

    2. For Elliot Rodger (please read his manifesto if you haven't, it's amazingly cringe-worthy), he was an anti-PUA who couldn't understand why his ridiculous butthurt outbursts, creepy demeanor and family's money didn't nail him all sorts of pretty ass white girl pussy.

    3. For Dylann Roof (the SC church shooter), it all started because a chick he liked wanted to fuck a black guy instead of fucking his creepy ass.

    Edit: And about the shithead in Oregon, according to the NYT:

    For investigators searching for his path to mass murder, he left behind a typewritten manifesto at the scene and a string of online postings that showed he had become increasingly interested in other high-profile shootings, angry at not having a girlfriend and bitter at a world that he believed was working against him.
    He was also a virgin, though not by choice, and he lived with his mother (parents divorced when he was 16), who coddled him at some pretty extreme levels and claimed he had Asperger's.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-04-2015 at 02:43 PM.
  35. #19085
    It isn't just the gunmen and hijackers that the misandry and feminization of male culture affects. It's the people who get killed too.

    I'm sorry, but I'm not afraid of a gunman. He may win, but I'll be goddamned if I don't die with my hands around his throat. I've probably always felt this way because it's what my dad taught me and I grew up in the boonies, where standing up for yourself and others is a cherished virtue. I used to think big cities were where sophisticated and intelligent people went. Now I know better. It's ironic that the most educated people are typically the most ignorant. Wait, it's not ironic, because obviously that would be the case since the underpinnings of the education system is government propaganda.

    I loathe how beaten down my culture has become. I find myself too often thinking that if I were in a bad situation and were to do the right thing, I'd be punished for it. I remember back in elementary school, my brother was getting pushed around by the class bully, a kid almost twice his size. Then my brother had enough and beat the piss out of him. He wasn't punished (the bully was) and the faculty was so proud of what he had done that I heard them reminiscing about it years later when I was in their classes.

    If this happened today, the bully would be the victim and my brother would have been severely punished. It would have been railed into his head that self-defense is always wrong and the only avenue to solve problems is to wait for the governmental authorities to intervene. It's so bad that my brother would probably have had to not fight back and purposely get visible bruises in order to get any sympathy.
  36. #19086
    It seems that the reason victimizing the perpetrator has become so enticing and popular is because we have developed knowledge about how perpetrators are often victims of other situations. We have all heard how a school bully usually has trouble at home. This is all true and important to understand, but our culture has gotten irrational about it. In the situation my brother was in, the bullying from the bully and the victimhood of that bully at home are two separate issues. But these days nobody seems to be able to separate them. George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin are a fantastic example of this. Zimmerman's potential racism that could have propelled him to pursue Martin is an entirely separate issue from the circumstance of shooting Martin in self-defense, yet the entire media and political class and most of the people you can talk to merge the two and call Martin's death the result of racism.

    I don't know why bad logic is so pervasive. I wonder if it's new. It probably isn't new, but it does seem to be exacerbated by dysfunctional institutions.
  37. #19087
    re: Dylan Roof, reminds me of the guy who was obsessed with Bjork and then went mental when she started dating a black guy, recorded hours upon hours of himself talking about it, his plan to send Bjork some kind of explosive package, him making the package, and then finally killed himself, on camera, at the end, after the package had already been sent out. It's all on YouTube (suicide included...), and it's insanely fascinating because of how... lucid, perceptive, and not overtly insane he seems. Anyway you should check it out if for whatever reason that stuff interests you. It's the best you'll get in regards to this kind of case study because he recorded sooo many hours of footage and none of it is edited, it's all there in its long mundane glory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricard...3pez_(stalker)

    I think those who talk about "toxic masculinity" would point to those same exact examples, so I guess it just depends on how you look at it. Either way their rage is centered around their ideal of masculinity and their failure to meet it. Which, of course, is not the fault of masculinity itself but masculinity as they are taught to perceive it.
    Last edited by aubreymcfate; 10-04-2015 at 03:29 PM.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  38. #19088
    I was talking with a British guy I have a class with. One of the main things he doesn't like about the states is how big of pussies Americans are.
  39. #19089
    Hanging out with Greeks in Greece is the biggest reprieve from a lot of uniquely American bullshit.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  40. #19090
    I imagine Greece has a pretty significant honor culture, albeit probably a less violent one due to being more chill and less repressed.

    I like the Mediterranean view of law and norms, where breaking them only matters when people are being harmed by the break. Contrast this to the American view of law and norms, where breaking them is itself wrong.
  41. #19091
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    Pretty clear that if you're retarded, you're for gun rights.

    That said, I'm for gun rights, because guns are cool and represent the seed and machine of sedition.
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 10-05-2015 at 11:06 AM.
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  42. #19092
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    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    Nice segue.

    I liked these two recent tweets by Thaddeus Russell:

    To get to the root of mass shootings the left needs to see whiteness and masculinity as systems of repression, not just oppression.

    I would rather understand and address the prevalence of homicidal unhappiness than have the police conduct house-to-house searches for guns.
    PS ++
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  43. #19093
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    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Pretty clear that if you're retarded, you're for gun rights.

    That said, I'm for gun rights, because guns are cool and represent the seed and machine of sedition.

    Even then, still retarded.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...eral-ceasefire

    I wonder if the 2nd amendment circa 7076 would include the right to bear nukes.
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 10-05-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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  44. #19094
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    I wonder if the 2nd amendment circa 7076 would include the right to bear nukes.
    This reminds me of a philosophical discussion I had in my college days. Something about how for humans to evolve to the point of a successful interstellar species, we must reach and pass a point where everyone in the world has the technical ability to wipe out the entire race. If any single one person can and does wipe out the race, we fail. I don't fancy our chances.

    This is pretty much the only viable explanation as to why it's not obvious to us already that there are smarter beings out there. It only takes one crazy fucker to undo billions of years of evolution.

    Also, I feel I should point out the nukes will probably be school experiment stuff by 7076. Maybe the amendment will have to be the right to bear black holes, or neutron stars, or perhaps big bangs.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #19095
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    I just want to point out that the right to be armed was not created by the Constitution. The Constitution just provides a point in our government's foundation that this right will not be taken away.
  46. #19096
    To chime into the gun debate, if law and order broke down globally, Americans would be much better positioned to cope than Brits. How the fuck am I supposed to stop someone trying to rob me if they have a gun and I don't? Gun laws do not stop people getting guns, they just stop the people who can be trusted with guns from having them, ie the law abiding people.

    Switzerland is an armed nation (31% armed). Only 10% of their homicides are caused by guns, and they have around a tenth of the level of homicide compared to USA, per capita. The problem clearly isn't guns, it's American culture. Selfish competetive attitudes are encouraged. Violence is glorified. Who can tell me the name of more victims than shooters from Columbine? This kind of stuff won't stop with tighter gun laws. You've got to get the guns off those who refuse to give them up first.

    Furthermore, to give up your guns isn't to just put your trust in the current government. It's to put your trust in every government of the future. That's a big leap of faith to make.

    Guns are bad. When only bad people have guns, that's really bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #19097
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    Crack was the scapegoat for unemployment and a number of other problems in the 1980s (that already existed before crack came along). It's much easier for politicians to blame shit on crack and throw taxpayer money at police programs and prisons than to actually address those problems.

    The same thing is happening with guns and these random acts of violence now.
  48. #19098
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Renton, you think everyone should be free to build a dirty bomb? I really don't want to be condescending here, but isn't this a red flag warning that your ideology has lead you astray?
    Dirty bombs aren't really that big of a deal, but they could be interchanged with something more general like "nucular fuckin' weapons of mass destruction" to make the same point.

    To answer a different, but related question: Should everyone be free to build a bomb that would kill hundreds of people? Yes. The reason for this is the materials required to do so are so basic and important to the lives of a ton of people that they should be kept available without red tape. This availability is what provides the ability to build the bomb.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-05-2015 at 01:47 PM.
  49. #19099
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    To answer a different, but related question: Should everyone be free to build a bomb that would kill hundreds of people? Yes. The reason for this is the materials required to do so are so basic and important to the lives of a ton of people that they should be kept available without red tape. This availability is what provides the ability to build the bomb.
    We should be free to discover this world and everything we can coax it to do for us.

    Should and won't.

    When you wield great authority, you live in fear of losing it; a fear that'll grow into every corner of your charge. You can't pretend to govern until you pretend to fear losing grip of what you govern.
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  50. #19100
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    To chime into the gun debate, if law and order broke down globally, Americans would be much better positioned to cope than Brits. How the fuck am I supposed to stop someone trying to rob me if they have a gun and I don't? Gun laws do not stop people getting guns, they just stop the people who can be trusted with guns from having them, ie the law abiding people.

    Switzerland is an armed nation (31% armed). Only 10% of their homicides are caused by guns, and they have around a tenth of the level of homicide compared to USA, per capita. The problem clearly isn't guns, it's American culture. Selfish competetive attitudes are encouraged. Violence is glorified. Who can tell me the name of more victims than shooters from Columbine? This kind of stuff won't stop with tighter gun laws. You've got to get the guns off those who refuse to give them up first.

    Furthermore, to give up your guns isn't to just put your trust in the current government. It's to put your trust in every government of the future. That's a big leap of faith to make.

    Guns are bad. When only bad people have guns, that's really bad.
    Bullets take infrastructure.

    After a week, your supermarket won't be stocked with fresh beef. How are you going to keep yourself up with fresh gunpowder? These high tech weapons require industry to maintain. That's the beauty of the modern world - unreal amounts of work go into even the dumbest shit in your life.
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  51. #19101
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This reminds me of a philosophical discussion I had in my college days. Something about how for humans to evolve to the point of a successful interstellar species, we must reach and pass a point where everyone in the world has the technical ability to wipe out the entire race. If any single one person can and does wipe out the race, we fail. I don't fancy our chances.

    This is pretty much the only viable explanation as to why it's not obvious to us already that there aren't smarter beings out there. It only takes one crazy fucker to undo billions of years of evolution.

    Also, I feel I should point out the nukes will probably be school experiment stuff by 7076. Maybe the amendment will have to be the right to bear black holes, or neutron stars, or perhaps big bangs.
    You're off you're rocker if you think they'll have school-house nuclear reactions.

    That'd be awesome though. Like 1500 heavy uranium atoms hitting a chain reaction.
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  52. #19102
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    You're off you're rocker if you think they'll have school-house nuclear reactions.

    That'd be awesome though. Like 1500 heavy uranium atoms hitting a chain reaction.
    My science teacher left a dome shaped crater in the concrete just outside class when he showed us how to make thermite. The same science teacher who demonstrated that surface area is a critical factor when it comes to combustion by throwing a handful of magnesium powder at the bunsen burner. If he had access to depleted uranium, I'd have cancer by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  53. #19103
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Bullets take infrastructure.

    After a week, your supermarket won't be stocked with fresh beef. How are you going to keep yourself up with fresh gunpowder? These high tech weapons require industry to maintain. That's the beauty of the modern world - unreal amounts of work go into even the dumbest shit in your life.
    Yeah because having a gun for protection means I can't stockpile supplies.

    If I had land, and a gun, I'd also have supplies, which include ammo, gunpowder, and tins of ravioli, which, incidentally, usually contains beef. At least they call it beef.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  54. #19104
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    So my mom's going back to school or whatever, almost all online classes with a local community college, and she needed a TI-85. I hooked her up with an emulator situation, but I'd never used one before (though I use console emulators all the time), and I didn't realize how cool they were.
  55. #19105
    it's not even gun control they want, it's only government with guns they want. if they really did believe that guns are the problem, they would be calling for the police to also not have guns.
  56. #19106
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    So what does everyone here do?

    I'm trying to find topics other than the usual 3-4 that we cycle through.
  57. #19107
    It's been a while since I saw you say something that struck me as sexist, to be fair spoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  58. #19108
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's been a while since I saw you say something that struck me as sexist, to be fair spoon.
    I've had more than one complaint about me spitting hard truth, so I just said fuck it and stopped doing it.
  59. #19109
    behind the scenes complaints? jesus i hate that noise.

    if somebody is wrong, confront them in the arena and beat up their ideas for everybody to see. if not, accept that your understanding of the veracity of your own position is shaky and stfu
    Last edited by wufwugy; 10-05-2015 at 11:26 PM.
  60. #19110
    lol @ the thought of anyone here pming spoon privately to chide him about his sexist remarks.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  61. #19111
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    it's not even gun control they want, it's only government with guns they want. if they really did believe that guns are the problem, they would be calling for the police to also not have guns.
    This is a pretty awful strawman. The police and military personal should have background checks and some sort of psych screening just like everyone else. Different people should have different clearances with regards to types of weapons. A police department doesn't need an M1 Abrams, and a civilian ftmp doesn't need access to belt-fed heavy machine guns.

    You refuse to allow nuance to be part of your view, and so it seems you defensively strawman the nuance out of the opposition's stance.
  62. #19112
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    This is a pretty awful strawman. The police and military personal should have background checks and some sort of psych screening just like everyone else. Different people should have different clearances with regards to types of weapons. A police department doesn't need an M1 Abrams, and a civilian ftmp doesn't need access to belt-fed heavy machine guns.

    You refuse to allow nuance to be part of your view, and so it seems you defensively strawman the nuance out of the opposition's stance.
    I didn't say that "if they believe guns in the wrong hands are the problem...". I said "if they believe guns are the problem".

    What you're getting at is something else, that there is ALSO a position where it is believed that guns in the wrong hands are the problem. My statement doesn't disagree with your assessment of that particular situation.

    BTW, your position is already a more rational position than the mainstream gun control position. You're looking for causes and effects. That's much more than the mainstream position, which is pretty much nothing other than gun=bad. One way of seeing this in action is how the mainstream left is categorically against any civilian solutions that involve guns. The mainstream position today is along the lines of guns being inherently bad but also not applying that logic to the government.
  63. #19113
    Another way to see that my statement was not a strawman of the gun control advocacy is how their concerns are irrelevant and stem from emotional reactions. For example, whenever the media covers a big shooting, it doesn't matter what type of weapon was used (usually handguns), the gun control crowd calls for the same thing: some level of assault rifle bans. Another example is that when it is shown that more stringent background checks would not have deterred any of these shootings, they still call for the same thing: more stringent background checks.
  64. #19114
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Another way to see that my statement was not a strawman of the gun control advocacy is how their concerns are irrelevant and stem from emotional reactions. For example, whenever the media covers a big shooting, it doesn't matter what type of weapon was used (usually handguns), the gun control crowd calls for the same thing: some level of assault weapon bans. Another example is that when it is shown that more stringent background checks would not have deterred any of these shootings, they still call for the same thing: more stringent background checks.
    Fixed your post.

    And now I realize that some people won't get it, but I changed "assault rifle" to "assault weapon" because "assault weapon" is a made-up term that politicians have used as something to target and ban when it's primarily a cosmetic issue. Here's an example:



    This helps to demonstrate how these people (and most people chiming in on it) have no idea what in the fuck they are talking about because they would call the second an "assault weapon."

    Also a fun piece of information: Iraqi families are allowed to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes. This continued under American occupation. It says a lot about how much our own government wants us to be armed.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-06-2015 at 07:23 AM.
  65. #19115
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    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    lol @ the thought of anyone here pming spoon privately to chide him about his sexist remarks.
    That's happened a few times from a few people in the past year. You can imagine my response after laughing my fucking ass off.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    behind the scenes complaints? jesus i hate that noise.

    if somebody is wrong, confront them in the arena and beat up their ideas for everybody to see. if not, accept that your understanding of the veracity of your own position is shaky and stfu
    I'll just point this out for entertainment purposes since I'm well past it, but a certain moderator complained about me with a new thread in the moderators' forum once inside of the past year or so. He took the angle that my misogynistic, sexist comments were hurting the image of FTR.

    In honor of the less-than-ideal choice that particular moderator made, I'd like to recommend viewers check out the Slut Justice sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/SlutJustice
  66. #19116
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    So what does everyone here do?

    I'm trying to find topics other than the usual 3-4 that we cycle through.
    Whenever I sing songs to myself I replace the word 'you' with 'jew'.
    It has become compulsive.

    I'm thinking about other words to replace, but I'm having a creative block atm.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  67. #19117
    Honestly on the one hand I can see his point. I don't even know what mod it was, but I could guess. As a mod, and in particular a respected writer for the forum, you represent FTR more than the likes of me. That said, you kept that kind of stuff to the commune, so I don't see what the problem was. Poker is an adult's game, and the commune is the place for casual chat. I don't see why the site should pander to cry babies. Get off the fucking internet if spoon's crap makes you angry.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #19118
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Honestly on the one hand I can see his point. I don't even know what mod it was, but I could guess. As a mod, and in particular a respected writer for the forum, you represent FTR more than the likes of me. That said, you kept that kind of stuff to the commune, so I don't see what the problem was. Poker is an adult's game, and the commune is the place for casual chat. I don't see why the site should pander to cry babies. Get off the fucking internet if spoon's crap makes you angry.
    There are two parts of it to me. The first part is that I'd prefer someone come to me directly if they have issues with something I've said instead of playing the victim culture card and trying to rally people behind the perceived slight to half (or more) of the human race. The second part is that there's a clear disclaimer that nothing said by anyone (including moderators here) represents the opinions of FTR or whatever.

    Anyway I don't want to carry on a discussion about that, I just wanted to point out that shit like that happens.
  69. #19119
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Whenever I sing songs to myself I replace the word 'you' with 'jew'.
    It has become compulsive.

    I'm thinking about other words to replace, but I'm having a creative block atm.
    Try changing "nigger" to "weiner".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #19120
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Whenever I sing songs to myself I replace the word 'you' with 'jew'.
    It has become compulsive.

    I'm thinking about other words to replace, but I'm having a creative block atm.
    I lost my updog in the laundry the other day.
  71. #19121
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Try changing "nigger" to "weiner".
    Jesus.
  72. #19122
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Jesus.
    Hey, mine is deracism. I'm trying to clean up hip hop here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  73. #19123
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    So what does everyone here do?

    I'm trying to find topics other than the usual 3-4 that we cycle through.
    I'll try to complete a successful triple post by quoting myself and answering my own question.

    I'm a full-time writer and content manager in the online gambling industry. It took me about three or four years, but I might be the top guy in the world right now. I'm at least top two or three, and I've gotten job offers on the back of this that would have required me to move to three different continents in the past year. BRAGBRAGBRAGBRAG

    I live with a couple of chicks in north-west North Carolina. The town I live in where Andy Griffith was from (the house he grew up in is like a mile from me), and it was the real-life inspiration for Mayberry. Here's some info for people who might be interested in some of the shit that goes on here:

    http://www.autumnleavesfestival.com/
    http://www.surryarts.org/mayberrydays/index.html
    http://budbreakfestival.com/

    These are the three biggest events down here each year. The Autumn Leaves Festival is actually this weekend, and I'll be going to it for the first time.
  74. #19124
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    This is a pretty awful strawman. The police and military personal should have background checks and some sort of psych screening just like everyone else. Different people should have different clearances with regards to types of weapons. A police department doesn't need an M1 Abrams, and a civilian ftmp doesn't need access to belt-fed heavy machine guns.

    You refuse to allow nuance to be part of your view, and so it seems you defensively strawman the nuance out of the opposition's stance.
    People are regularly not allowed to be police because their IQs are too high.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-b...story?id=95836
    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/09/ny...iq-scores.html

    NEW HAVEN— A Federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by a man who was barred from the New London police force because he scored too high on an intelligence test.

    In a ruling made public on Tuesday, Judge Peter C. Dorsey of the United States District Court in New Haven agreed that the plaintiff, Robert Jordan, was denied an opportunity to interview for a police job because of his high test scores.
    Ever wonder why cops yell “quit resisting” as they beat a person who’s not resisting? Or why they shoot people who pose no threat? Maybe the answer is right in front of us.
    Jordan, a 48-year-old college graduate with a degree in literature, had scored 33 points when he took the Wonderlic Personnel Test in 1996, giving him an IQ of around 125. His score was well above the 21 to 22 points that officers score on average, which reflects a slightly above-average IQ of around 104. (Interestingly, the Wonderlic test recommends that insurance salespeople score at least 22 points and that police officers score at least 21 — meaning that at least according to the test, it requires more intelligence to sell insurance than to solve crimes.)
    My personal favorite:

    However, the courts sided with the lower police department. In its ruling, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York ruled that the city did not discriminate against Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test. In other words, no one who was deemed “too smart” for the job after taking the intelligence test was hired.
    If we follow this logic, then it's not discrimination if you just have a policy of not hiring black people. However, if you have a policy of not hiring black people, and you hire exactly one black person, then it is discrimination.

    Wake up sheeple.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-06-2015 at 10:04 AM.
  75. #19125
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Another way to see that my statement was not a strawman of the gun control advocacy is how their concerns are irrelevant and stem from emotional reactions. For example, whenever the media covers a big shooting, it doesn't matter what type of weapon was used (usually handguns), the gun control crowd calls for the same thing: some level of assault rifle bans. Another example is that when it is shown that more stringent background checks would not have deterred any of these shootings, they still call for the same thing: more stringent background checks.
    I don't remember who said it, but the most compelling suggestion I've heard to stop school shootings was to give the killer a ridiculous nickname. No more Unabombers and Beach Killers.
    Why not fartboy or chubby tubby. If you really want to deter people from becoming mass murderers, don't elevate them to antihero status. Talk about them like the self involved pieces of shit they are.

    More along these linse:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

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