...and people are still protesting against the cop who shot him?
Official autopsy released with some real-life CSI shit: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...7df75fef6.html
10-22-2014 11:00 AM
#1
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So Michael Brown got high, robbed a store, then attacked a police officer......and people are still protesting against the cop who shot him? | |
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10-22-2014 03:22 PM
#2
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This whole incident was nothing but a fiasco. I think this country needs to have a serious, serious discussion about the actions and behavior of our police forces out in the street and our laws and punishments as a nation. We're turning into a police state with a prison industrial complex. Well, we're not turning into that...we are that. | |
10-23-2014 03:48 AM
#3
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Even if he attacked the cop and the cop defended himself according to police protocol, there's still a major problem with the amount of discretion and means cops have to take life. Imagine how hard it is for the state to execute someone who is open-and-shut guilty of multiple murder. Years of appeals, millions and millions of dollars in litigation. And yet a police can shoot someone 6 times, completely justifiably, if he perceives he is in any risk of bodily harm whatsoever. Or someone like George Zimmerman can shoot someone to death, again completely justifiably, if he feels he's at the tiniest risk of being killed. | |
10-23-2014 09:58 AM
#4
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*applause* | |
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10-23-2014 10:10 AM
#5
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It's frequently going to take more than six shots to subdue someone Michael Brown's size who is trying to kill you. The officer wasn't shooting him to kill him, he was shooting him to stop the threat to his own life. If Brown had stopped after he was first shot instead of charging the officer, then he would still be alive. | |
Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-23-2014 at 10:14 AM. | |
10-23-2014 10:13 AM
#6
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10-23-2014 10:24 AM
#7
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Do you know what causes someone to think that they can get high, rob a store for something they want instead of paying for it, and attack a police officer unprovoked? It's entitlement and a lack of learning that there are consequences for your actions. | |
Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-23-2014 at 10:27 AM. | |
10-23-2014 02:22 PM
#8
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I don't believe that last sentence for a second. We've seen videos on top of videos where police respond to any threat whatsoever by firing a barrage of shots. They NEVER NEVER NEVER shoot once. They unload. Never a warning shot. Never a shoulder shot. And I don't even think they say freeze anymore to be honest. A taser should always be sufficient for the situation of a man rushing you who is unarmed, and if it isn't, we need to invest in the taser technology that does, it shouldn't be that far around the corner. | |
Last edited by Renton; 10-23-2014 at 02:44 PM. | |
10-23-2014 02:43 PM
#9
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I don't want to retread these debates that depend on alleged accounts one way or the other. What I'm most interested in is re-evaluating the police as an entity. Let's imagine for a moment that the police force operated like a private business. A publicly-funded private business. That is, the government says it wants an effective police force for a test jurisdiction, say a medium sized town, and security companies bid on this contract, and the contract is awarded in a fair way based upon the prices and the services and guarantees offered. The trick is though, that the contract isn't one contract, it's three and the town is split into three sub-jurisdictions, each of which fall under the purview of one company. Each company will then compete so that eventually one company can get the entire contract for this town. | |
Last edited by Renton; 10-23-2014 at 03:01 PM. | |
10-23-2014 03:20 PM
#10
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10-23-2014 03:21 PM
#11
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10-23-2014 03:38 PM
#12
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Also, it doesn't really matter if you believe it or not because it's confirmed at this point that he shot Brown once inside of the car, and after pushing Brown back and getting him off, Brown charged at him (attacking him for a second time) at which point he was shot until he stopped advancing which is completely and totally correct in that situation. | |
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10-23-2014 04:05 PM
#13
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Spoon, you're always analyzing these situations as isolated incidences, without any historical context. You might as well be saying that World War I was caused by the assassination of Franz Ferdinand because some "entitled" Bosnian upstarts decided to get a little rowdy. | |
10-23-2014 04:10 PM
#14
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People have rioted and looted in Ferguson supporting an adult man who committed a robbery before attacking a police officer unprovoked. | |
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10-23-2014 04:51 PM
#15
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10-23-2014 05:29 PM
#16
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I find it pretty amazing that the police are considered brain dead guys that shoot anything that moves. I'm fucking 50 and never even had an argument with a cop, let alone have a gun pointed at me or been told to lie down or taken under arrest. I think a lot of these incidents need to start being pointed blame at the dead. Stay the fuck out of trouble, and stay alive. It's not that hard. | |
10-23-2014 05:36 PM
#17
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It's weird to hear this conversation coming from people so far removed from the situation. | |
10-23-2014 05:47 PM
#18
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10-23-2014 06:03 PM
#19
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Surely you can see how this defense can be used in any situation where one person has a gun and the dead person does not. Gun = ultimate discretion to kill with impunity, innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. No gun = guilty until proven innocent, and not able to defend one's dead self. | |
10-23-2014 06:05 PM
#20
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10-23-2014 06:45 PM
#21
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10-23-2014 09:02 PM
#22
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10-23-2014 09:11 PM
#23
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Here's some racism for you: people losing their goddamn minds and rioting because some idiot robbed a place and tried to beat the shit out of a cop who told him to stop standing in the middle of the road and got shot in the process. Somebody call the NAACP because this cop should lose his job. | |
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10-23-2014 09:12 PM
#24
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10-23-2014 09:53 PM
#25
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10-23-2014 10:48 PM
#26
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Yeah... St Louis has a racial divide that is not a part of small town life. I'm too lazy to post the image, but google "census race st louis" and search for images and you'll see what I mean. | |
10-23-2014 11:03 PM
#27
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For the record, you're taking the police side of the story at full face value, without nuance. | |
Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 10-23-2014 at 11:07 PM. | |
10-24-2014 01:49 AM
#28
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Jesse, I've noticed that you tend to carry a huge torch for the police in all of these cases. You appeal to police authority and superiority in a way that I know is the norm for Americans but I'm a little surprised to see it from you. Why do you seem to believe, like most Americans, that the ultimate crime in America is disrespecting a police officer? Why is the fact that he *allegedly* attacked a police officer any different than if he attacked a random guy on the street? Why is the fact that Brown had marijuana in his system and just committed the most minor of petty crimes (shoplifting in a gas station) relevant at all to Darren Wilson's culpability? | |
10-24-2014 01:59 AM
#29
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Sidenote, but relevant: Activists are petitioning for police reform, and a better database of police killings | |
10-24-2014 08:48 AM
#30
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Okay I know you're the kind of guy who likes to have information before you form an opinion, but you're basing your opinion on information that was available on day one or day two only instead of everything else that has came out, and I'm confident that you'll feel much differently once you have the newer information. | |
Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-24-2014 at 08:56 AM. | |
10-24-2014 08:52 AM
#31
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I hate cops. | |
Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-24-2014 at 09:18 AM. | |
10-24-2014 08:56 AM
#32
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Hey don't miss my other thread on Stupid Child Porn Laws: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ws-198231.html | |
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10-24-2014 09:23 AM
#33
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Some anti-gun liberal idiot will make http://www.counton2.com/story/268510...r-sheriff-says about race in 10... 9... 8... | |
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10-24-2014 01:21 PM
#34
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That's not accurate though. People rioted initially because to them it looked like a white cop shot an unarmed black guy in an area where there's already plenty of racial tension. You're looking at this with the knowledge someone has weeks after the shooting with a pretty good idea of how it actually went down due to forensics reports and a compilation of statements. | |
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10-24-2014 01:40 PM
#35
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I like galapogos's perspective on this. | |
10-24-2014 03:11 PM
#36
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Last edited by spoonitnow; 10-24-2014 at 03:13 PM. | |
10-24-2014 03:53 PM
#37
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They definitely shouldn't, but rioting isn't a rational response pretty much ever. It's emotional and with the way it sounds like things were in that town before the shooting it was just the incident needed to push things to the point of people being angry enough to riot. | |
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10-24-2014 04:07 PM
#38
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I'll be the first to say I'm sorry for mixing up the gas station story with a different story. I completely forgot about him shoving the clerk and was not trying to be dishonest there. | |
10-27-2014 08:32 AM
#39
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I've done a reasonable amount of digging on this case, and I've decided it's a clean shooting, 100% by the standards of basic U.S. police protocol. There's no doubt that the practically daily police shootings are a huge problem so it is easy to have biased views from the start and I succumbed to that like everyone else on this one. | |
10-27-2014 03:38 PM
#40
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When a cop approaches a potentially hostile situation, the protocol is typically to put their hand on their gun to prepare to draw. I think changing this in some reasonable way could change a lot in the people getting shot by cops arena. | |
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10-27-2014 10:50 PM
#41
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Again, I defer to the private business model, not necessarily because it would automatically be better (it would, but that's another argument), but to compare the liability that a private security company would face when one of its employees shoots someone to death. The government is able to absorb the costs and reputation harm that comes with fiascoes like this because they have infinitely deep pockets and citizens aren't allowed to choose an alternative. | |
10-27-2014 11:08 PM
#42
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