4NL - AKo facing flop C/R

[maverick007]

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (8 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

BB ($1.11)
UTG ($2.30)
UTG+1 ($1.59)
MP1 ($1.14)
MP2 ($1.52)
CO ($2)
Hero (Button) ($2)
SB ($0.96)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K
UTG bets $0.12, UTG+1 calls $0.12, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.42, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.02) 7, J, K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.72, UTG raises to $1.44, Hero ??

Villain is 27/14. Not too many other reads.

[OngBonga]

This is an easy fold for me. Villain usually has JJ and maybe some 77 AK KJs. Maybe he can do this with KQs, but that's a really big maybe utg vs a 3bet. KQs and bluffs are all we beat, and he's bluffing very rarely when he min c/r this spot. I'd expect to be winning here <5%.

[supa]

Put together a range of hands he might do this with and make the appropriate desicion.

[Sasquach991]

Had very similar hands last night with the same lines by hero. One was exactly except for suits. The other was 8JK flop. Being the spewy donk that I am I shoved on both occasions.

Ong's ranges are perfect except KQ and AK weren't part of them, unfortunately. The <5% expect to win has been verified. Top two and set confirmed.

Why is hero half stacked?

[kmind]

Not sure I understand your flop sizing. I'd fold now.

The dude's 27/14? No reads? Not buying it...

[maverick007]

Kmind, I can't use a HUD on Cake Poker. I got the stats from PT during my review session. Whatever other reads I get, they are the ones I've observed while playing. This villain is relatively unknown.
What about the flop bet sizing? 2/3rd pot with TPTK?

Sasquach, this is a short stacked table (50bb buy in).

[kmind]

Understood maverick. But you need to be taking notes then if you can't use a HUD.

So you're betting 2/3 based on your hand strength? I think that's a flaw, do you?

[maverick007]

With a made hand, I wanna extract value from the villain with my cbet. OOP, I usually bet 2/3rd pot or check/raise depending on the villain. If I miss, then I'll look at any notes I have on the player about him folding to cbets on the flop and bet out 50-60% pot, maybe a bit lesser. This is the way I'm looking at things at the moment.

Kmind, could you please explain a bit more about your line of thinking? Why do you think bet sizing based on hand strength could be a flaw?

P.S. I definitely need to be taking more notes. It becomes difficult for others to give advice without any reads all the time.

[supa]

Kmind, I can't use a HUD on Cake Poker .

Cake started allowing HUDs like a year ago. Unless they reversed it in the last month when they pulled out of the US market, there's no reason not to be using your HUD.

*edit. If you aren't using a HUD you should be paying a ton more attn to other reads.

[maverick007]

Yeah I just checked online, and it says they have started allowing HUDs. Ive got the trial version of PT3. I tried starting the HUD, but it doesnt!

[kmind]

With a made hand, I wanna extract value from the villain with my cbet. OOP, I usually bet 2/3rd pot or check/raise depending on the villain. If I miss, then I'll look at any notes I have on the player about him folding to cbets on the flop and bet out 50-60% pot, maybe a bit lesser. This is the way I'm looking at things at the moment.

Kmind, could you please explain a bit more about your line of thinking? Why do you think bet sizing based on hand strength could be a flaw?

P.S. I definitely need to be taking more notes. It becomes difficult for others to give advice without any reads all the time.

At your stakes you don't really have to worry about balancing so your plan can have some merit. But overall, I think you should be looking at the board texture/villain(s)'s range and decide to a sizing because of that more so than if you hit. It's especially important if you start moving up.

This hand in particular, though, you have a shallow stack. In most cases, when you bet more villain's continuing range will be stronger plus when he shoves/raises you are kind of screwed with pot odds. Betting smaller thus creates two things here for value. It keeps in weaker hands and you're not committed if raised.

And then when you whiff the flop and cbet as a bluff you'll need much less folds to be +EV.

[postiga]

I think it´s not an easy all-in in flop after his bet but in this case i think you have 50% to crack the range of him so top pair, top kicker and in this limits the range that he does this thinks is bigger. But i think shove is correct

[OngBonga]

Mav - kmind's post nails it. I wanted to come in and say things like board texture, villain's range, cheaper bluffs etc but was waiting to see if you could figure any of this out.

Board texture is the main one at these stakes. Are you betting the same with AK on KJ7 board regardless of whether it's a rainbow or two-tone flop?

Villain's range and tendencies important too. If you have some nice juicy notes on this guy and you know he calls Jx to a 2/3 pot bet, then your bet is fine. But you have to ask how many Jx combos this guy has when he r/c utg. Not many imo. He might have hands like TT QTs ATs AJs AQ KQs... these hands might call a smaller bet but fold to this bet. You really don't need to worry about pricing out his draws simply because he doesn't have many in his range, so a 55% bet should suffice here.

Finally, kmind's last point about bluffing for less when we 3bet and miss the flop is spot on, if you're betting AK 55% here then you can bet your AQ 55% here too and we don't need as many folds compared to when we bluff 66%. At these stakes, balance is not that important, but only because most villains are not paying attention to bet sizing. Don't assume no-one is paying attention though, if you're vbetting 66% and bluffing 55%, an alert villain can exploit this until you realise you've been rumbled.

[maverick007]

Thanks for the solid advice guys.

Now, people in this limit call with a lot worse no matter the bet size. Even with the same hand, I get called by a lot worse eg KQ, AJ etc, of course depending on the villain.


Unless the villain is a decent player, in this limit, if the villain have decided to call, he will call a 1/2 pot bet as much as he would a 2/3rd pot bet. The best size doesnt matter. And if they wanna fold, they would fold even to a min bet.

On a missed flop, I usually bet 50-55% pot. With a connected flop, I bet more depending on my hand strength.

So my question is, in what situations/board texture/villain's range, would you bet, for example, 2/3rd pot?

[Cobra_1878]

Thanks for the solid advice guys.

Now, people in this limit call with a lot worse no matter the bet size. Even with the same hand, I get called by a lot worse eg KQ, AJ etc, of course depending on the villain.


Unless the villain is a decent player, in this limit, if the villain have decided to call, he will call a 1/2 pot bet as much as he would a 2/3rd pot bet. The best size doesnt matter. And if they wanna fold, they would fold even to a min bet.

On a missed flop, I usually bet 50-55% pot. With a connected flop, I bet more depending on my hand strength.

So my question is, in what situations/board texture/villain's range, would you bet, for example, 2/3rd pot?

You need to stop that. Might as well play cards face up.

[WeldPhaser]

Instead of getting all mashed up w/ villain's range involved(Not that you shouldn't).

Let's just start using board texture. Forget about the two cards you've been dealt(Like Cobra said any thinking player is gonna pick up eventually on basing your sizing on that.)

One reason we c-bet is to price out draws right? So if we c-bet bigger as the board gets wetter. we reduce our opp's expectation for their drawing hands.


Say it's a standard non-3b flop . You ra'd in CO and the BB calls. FL': KsQsAh, villain checks, betting Full-pot here would be good. now when villain calls w/ Tx hands he's getting bad odds for his gutshot.

In 3b pots. obv the pot is much bigger and ranges are narrower. You simply don't need to bet huge in 3b pots.. 1/2 pot would have been fine imo

[OngBonga]

So my question is, in what situations/board texture/villain's range, would you bet, for example, 2/3rd pot?

If we know villain is a station, this flop is fine for 2/3. If villain's range has a lot of draws in it (more than just QTs and a handful of gutshots), such as KJ7 two-tone, again I bet around 2/3.

[maverick007]

You need to stop that. Might as well play cards face up.

Cobra, How would you have played this hand on the flop? Dry flop, TPTK, against a relatively unknown weakish villain, whats your thought process?

[Cobra_1878]

As you said it's hard without many notes/reads. How many hands was villain 27/14 from? 20? 50? 100?

Without much more information I fold the flop. I am rarely happy to get stacks in with TPTK unless I know villain is likely to call with big PP's or really bad draws. Plus, I personally am always wary of a check/min raise on the flop, especially one as dry as that. Flop sizing looks fine to me, around 70% of pot, but now it's a fold.

[WeldPhaser]

Flop sizing looks fine to me, around 70% of pot, but now it's a fold.

Doesn't anyone else think this bet is a bit big on the flop for a 3b pot????

[kmind]

Doesn't anyone else think this bet is a bit big on the flop for a 3b pot????

Level?

[maverick007]

Cobra, this is a shallow table. Would that change things for you?

Weldphaser, the pot is $1 on the flop. What do you think would be an appropriate bet size here?

[rpm]

i'd bet $0.4 on flop and plan to shove turn. as played use stove and figure out whether to call or not. my best guess is that it depends heavily on how many KQ combos villain can have. and if he calls KJs preflop in this spot. i have no idea how typical villains at 4nl 50bb tables play