Poor Big Healthcare

[CoccoBill]

According to Health Care for America Now, the companies WellPoint, CIGNA, UnitedHealth Group, Aetna Inc. and Humana posted cumulative profits of $12.2 billion. That marks a $4.4 billion, or 56 percent, increase over 2008 and amounts to an average profit margin of 5.2 percent. Health Care for America Now says the insurers’ record year was aided by three factors: dropping customers with costly medical needs; diverting spending from medical care to administrative costs and margins; and a higher enrollment in public programs, like Medicare Advantage, that pay insurers higher fees. Overall, the insurance companies dropped 2.7 million customers from their rolls last year.

It boggles my mind, what is it that makes people vote against their best interests. Perfectly happy having these guys between themselves and their doctor, but a government official? Hell no. Everyone knows the government is completely incompetent, that's why we only let it take care of the nation's defense, policies, justice system, education, taxation, public safety and couple other minor things that they can handle.

[jyms]

I would much rather have a govt run my health care than an insurance company.

[bode]

Everyone knows the government is completely incompetent, that's why we only let it take care of the nation's defense, policies, justice system, education, taxation, public safety and couple other minor things that they can handle.

they do a great job fucking most of those things up, so why not let them fuck up healthcare even worse than it already is?

[wufwugy]

IMO the strangehold of stupidity of voting in the US is based in our puritanical, evangelical fundamentalism. A very large portion of voters adamantly believe that if you don't follow the religious line, you're Satan's butt mistress. This has created a right-wing that gives zero thought to anything and just does whatever their political preachers tell them, and a 'moderate' wing that isn't entirely crazy but still falls prey to the propaganda whenever it's in full swing.

Our xtian fundamentalism has done things like brainwash the populous into thinking that fallacies like Appeal to Authority are the correct way to make observations (since it's what is done in all things church), and this carries over into politics.

[wufwugy]

Everyone knows the government is completely incompetent, that's why we only let it take care of the nation's defense, policies, justice system, education, taxation, public safety and couple other minor things that they can handle.

they do a great job fucking most of those things up, so why not let them fuck up healthcare even worse than it already is?

Actually, the fuckup comes from special interests imposing power on the public interests. For example, one of the biggest problems with the justice system is the privatization and profitization of prisons which has made a ginormous system of false justice (over-criminalization and kickbacks, etc)

Without going into it a whole lot, all this garbage that Reagan popularized about how government is the problem is exactly that - garbage. By definition, democratic governance is the public sector, and by definition, the public sector governing itself is that which perpetuates democracy and freedoms. Don't repeat the same exact crap the the morons do while having zero understanding of how stuff actually works. If you think we'd be better off with an oligarchy then, by all means, support regulation of the system by the private special interests, but if you support actual democracy then what you want is a very strong public sector that regulates itself and this regulation will be known as government.

Politicians have framed the debate into a logistically false form. Government is not and cannot be inherently the problem. In fact, government is necessary for society to actually work. Do not think in terms of government vs non-government (because that is an illusion), but think in terms of who runs the government (the few or the many, the monarchs or the people)

Also, superb examples of nations where the special interests rule are known as third-world countries. Take away the US public sector governance (publicly funded infrastructure, fire stations, police, etc) and you'll find that your neighborhood or apartment complex shortly becomes a shithole slum just like it works in the rest of the world because the ruling special interests have no interest in supporting it or you. Reagan's rhetoric is the exact paradigm under which third world countries operate

[CoccoBill]

Everyone knows the government is completely incompetent, that's why we only let it take care of the nation's defense, policies, justice system, education, taxation, public safety and couple other minor things that they can handle.

they do a great job fucking most of those things up, so why not let them fuck up healthcare even worse than it already is?

"they"? They who? Do you mean the politicians, government officials, people working at state or federal level, who? The federal government employed 2.5 million people in 2008 and state and local governments a total of 14.8 million full-time employees (http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/). Why are they fucking things up, are they all incompetent? Who hired them, and who voted in the people that hired them? Who makes the policies, are they democrats or republicans? Who is it exactly you're blaming? Or are you just repeating a popularized catch phrase that doesn't really mean anything?

[a500lbgorilla]

Unfortunately, healthcare reform falls short on the most important metric.

It will not make anyone rich.

[Jack Sawyer]

hahaha politics and logic is like water and oil. But politics and greed is like water and salt.

[bode]

Everyone knows the government is completely incompetent, that's why we only let it take care of the nation's defense, policies, justice system, education, taxation, public safety and couple other minor things that they can handle.

they do a great job fucking most of those things up, so why not let them fuck up healthcare even worse than it already is?

"they"? They who? Do you mean the politicians, government officials, people working at state or federal level, who? The federal government employed 2.5 million people in 2008 and state and local governments a total of 14.8 million full-time employees (http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/). Why are they fucking things up, are they all incompetent? Who hired them, and who voted in the people that hired them? Who makes the policies, are they democrats or republicans? Who is it exactly you're blaming? Or are you just repeating a popularized catch phrase that doesn't really mean anything?

aren't you from fucking scandiland or some place? why do you even care? for the record, the who i'm referring to is "government", period. the bigger it gets, the worse off imo. and i'm not going to get in to some wufwugy-esque essay competition with you because i could really give a shit.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Unfortunately, healthcare reform falls short on the most important metric.

It will not make anyone rich.

Thank god we have someone who has read Atlas Shrugged on this forum .

[a500lbgorilla]

Unfortunately, healthcare reform falls short on the most important metric.

It will not make anyone rich.

Thank god we have someone who has read Atlas Shrugged on this forum .

I haven't. I have played Bioshock though!

[IowaSkinsFan]

Unfortunately, healthcare reform falls short on the most important metric.

It will not make anyone rich.

Thank god we have someone who has read Atlas Shrugged on this forum .

I haven't. I have played Bioshock though!

If you really value a system that allows people to get rich I think you'd really enjoy any Rand book and most certainly Atlas Shrugged.

[bigred]

Unfortunately, healthcare reform falls short on the most important metric.

It will not make anyone rich.

Thank god we have someone who has read Atlas Shrugged on this forum .

I haven't. I have played Bioshock though!

My GF got me bioshock 2 for valentine's day, she's a keeper

[wufwugy]

the who i'm referring to is "government", period. the bigger it gets, the worse off imo.

There is no 'imo'. There is only fact. This is not some vague topic where social scientists are just grabbing at straws about how things work.

More or less governance is a fallacy. It doesn't appear to be the case because it's viewed in a bubble. But once you view the entire society as a whole, you'll find that reducing governance in one area only promotes it in another area. The question is 'how' we govern, not 'that' we govern.

The rule of thumb is that weakening of public sector governance promotes special sector governance. This is empirically undeniable. The absence of government is itself government; the only difference is that it's informal government.

I'm gonna stop here because it's clear that you stopped reading my posts a long time ago. But you might find it interesting to note that you have fallen for a very basic propaganda talking point popularized by representatives of special interests.

[CoccoBill]

aren't you from fucking scandiland or some place? why do you even care?

Yes I am. I'd love nothing more than to not have to care, but many american policy decisions have direct consequences to the rest of the world, like it or not.

for the record, the who i'm referring to is "government", period.

I tried to point out that "government" can mean anything from Obama and his advisors to close to 20 million people, which is it that you refer to?

the bigger it gets, the worse off imo.

Bigger as in number of posts/functions or level of regulations? If former, which posts/functions are unnecessary, if the latter, what area is regulated too heavily?

[bode]

... i'm not going to get in to some wufwugy-esque essay competition with you because i could really give a shit.

[wufwugy]

"couldn't"

[rong]

"couldn't"

lol

that bugged me the whole way through this thread.