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Randomness thread, part two.

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  1. #28351
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This is the deranged left. This is a world where opposing the EU is literally worse than child porn.
    So this is what you consider myself, Oskar, and occasionally others here to be a part of?

    People who say things like that are idiots. I strongly suspect none of us would agree with that.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  2. #28352
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    This is for anyone who wants to hear a lawyer's take on the events surrounding that photo op.
    He gets emotional, and is speaking as a citizen, not in his capacity as a lawyer, but his position is colored by this.

    @ong, it's over 18 minutes, so ... you know... I don't really expect you to watch it.
    If you're going to spend the 18 minutes, you'd be much better served watching the Trevor Noah vlog I posted recently.

    First of all, I agree with what he's saying

    Secondly, why oh why do people use this strange....halting....way of talking sometimes? It started in movies/TV about 20 years ago and it sounds like the person speaking has brain damage. Now people do it in videos. How did this ever become a thing?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  3. #28353
    I'm not even on the left, ong. I'm about as central as you can be. I strongly support the right to bear arms, which I do not want to bring up as a topic to discuss right now, but just to give an example of how my opinions can be called right or left depending on the topic.
    I get caught up in the division too. I'm not oblivious to my own hypocrisy. I moan about people sticking me in "the right" when I'm happy to stick you all in "the left", despite knowing full well it's not that binary. I mean, I don't seriously think anyone agrees with that tweet I quoted above, that hating the EU is worse than child porn, that's the view of a truly deranged person.

    I tend to read a lot of what you guys talk about, and see it from a different angle. It's my opinion, perhaps wrongly, that the left are generally blinded by hate towards Trump, and that's not something that clouds my judgement. Weed clouds my judgement instead!

    I'm going to try to take a step back and examine my emotional response for what it is before responding to you for a while, out of respect.

    Not at all, and even if you had you shouldn't apologise to me. I'm not sorry when I inadvertently push peoples' buttons, and when I'm triggered I blame myself for reacting that way rather than the person who triggered me, at least I do when I'm not triggered any more.

    You forget that I actually enjoy arguing with people on the internet. I try to keep things civil here because I do like you guys, but when we're talking about such emotional subjects it can get a bit draining.

    Ong, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I am very much trying to understand what you're saying.

    That current events are orchestrated, designed to increase social tensions. This outpouring of hatred towards Trump is part of the game, it's the reaction they want, a reaction they've been fostering for his entire term. Trump is just the current face of the system. Black people are being manipulated, so are white people by means of "privilege", nothing that we as a society are doing right now is helping to heal the sense of racial inequality that exists, on the contrary it is getting worse.

    I feel like the whole world has been duped into a propaganda war, that we need a huge "red pill" event to snap the world out of this bullshit. Until then, they'll keep us divided.

    This is an election year. There's plenty more politics to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #28354
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    So this is what you consider myself, Oskar, and occasionally others here to be a part of?
    No. If you read my recent post to mojo, you'll see I don't actually think that. That tweet is truly deranged. If I call you guys deranged, I'm just using a juicy word because it's a trigger word.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #28355
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That current events are orchestrated, designed to increase social tensions. This outpouring of hatred towards Trump is part of the game, it's the reaction they want, a reaction they've been fostering for his entire term. Trump is just the current face of the system. Black people are being manipulated, so are white people by means of "privilege", nothing that we as a society are doing right now is helping to heal the sense of racial inequality that exists, on the contrary it is getting worse.

    I feel like the whole world has been duped into a propaganda war, that we need a huge "red pill" event to snap the world out of this bullshit. Until then, they'll keep us divided.

    This is an election year. There's plenty more politics to come.
    I feel like saying "current events are orchestrated" paints a very wide brush that includes organized peaceful protests, and organized agitators inciting otherwise peaceful protests into confrontations, and organized looting and other criminal acts.

    I'm sure there's plenty of all that in the news, but also there's plenty of spontaneous acts of both peace and kindness as well as violence and confrontation coming from both protestors and police.
    I've cried tears of despair and tears of joy in reading various news stories about the protests. There are copious amounts of both, and it's hard to see what the balance is when it's all coming through various biased news sources.

    I see very little in the protests that is targeting or mentioning Trump. There's is very little of that. By and large, the protests are focused on the civil rights violations and police use of excessive force (which isn't well defined). Of course politicians are politicizing things. The fact that there seems to be a partisan divide on the issue of police brutality is baffling to me. I can definitely understand people disagreeing on various solutions to this problem, but the data is truly clear that black people are disproportionately killed by police, and disproportionately under-served by hospitals. We can argue about what to do about those data, but I can't see why people can't agree on the numbers.

    Here is a very short page to look at which shows data on the problem. You can read and digest the information in a couple minutes, tops.
    https://www.joincampaignzero.org/problem


    Propaganda is part of life, and I'd be hard pressed to disagree that at all times throughout history, the pulpit of the pen was the true catalyst for motivating people. Protests don't change much, but the words they inspire - the ideas that become memes (not the internet joke sense) - are what truly change our societies.

    Yes, the political side of this will only continue.


    One thing that stands out is - why does it take a video of unmistakable police brutality for the fact that ANY bias in policing exists to be heard? Why do we implicitly trust police to do good when we know that simply cannot be true? All people make mistakes. Every profession has bad actors.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  6. #28356
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Secondly, why oh why do people use this strange....halting....way of talking sometimes? It started in movies/TV about 20 years ago and it sounds like the person speaking has brain damage. Now people do it in videos. How did this ever become a thing?
    I think he was either genuinely emotionally distraught, or was trying to portray as much in the video. There are moments where it looks like he's about to cry. There are abrupt jump cuts that are not his usual editing style, so it feels like this was more off-the-cuff and thrown together than his usual manicured style.

    I don't think he uses that halting style of speaking in his other videos, but maybe I'm not perfectly understanding what you mean.


    EDIT: He does a few distinct styles of videos.
    He did a video on the Ahmaud Arbery incident, which is the closest in content to the video I just shared. This is in the style of presenting an actual legal case or potential case as facts on the ground. I find his presentations are about as impartial and unbiased as I've found.

    He has done a couple animated videos where he delves into a case that may not be high profile, but which made its way up the appellate courts to have a higher legal impact.

    He also does "legal meme reviews" and "[movie or TV show] gets lawyered" which are just light-hearted content.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 06-04-2020 at 02:37 PM.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  7. #28357
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That current events are orchestrated, designed to increase social tensions. This outpouring of hatred towards Trump is part of the game, it's the reaction they want, a reaction they've been fostering for his entire term. Trump is just the current face of the system. Black people are being manipulated, so are white people by means of "privilege",
    I think you're looking at things a bit too cynically. To take it to the extreme, one could argue the events were orchestrated by the left who paid this cop to murder Floyd. I don't think anyonew would buy that no matter how many spliffs they smoked.

    So then, if the murder of an unarmed and non-resisting black man by a white cop while three other cops did nothing, if that 'spark' was real, then what part of the ensuing events was orchestrated? Again, you'd have a hard time convincing people that 10s of thousands are being suckered into protesting against an obvious systemic problem against their will. Just because you aren't outraged personally by something doesn't make it implausible that others are.

    A better argument might be that some are taking advantage of the situation for political gain, and maybe egging things on; that much I could buy. But, in that case you'd have to also accept that the egging on is coming from both sides. Taking Trump as an example (because his actions are so public), he's basically done nothing to quelll the unrest, and much that could easily be construed as fomenting it. But, unless he's a lot smarter than all available evidence suggests, he's not doing it for any strategic purpose but rather because that's just who he is.

    Also worth noting a lot of weird shit going on, like cops smashing windows and other random shit like goon squads impersonating protesters to justify police overreactions.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  8. #28358
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I think he was either genuinely emotionally distraught, or was trying to portray as much in the video.
    I'm not having a go at him so much as noting how much that way of talking annoys me. It doesn't really matter, /rant.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  9. #28359
    The fact that there seems to be a partisan divide on the issue of police brutality is baffling to me.
    I don't think this is the case, but then again I'm not in USA. Certainly I'm pretty sure that all parties here, for the most part, agree that police brutality is a problem that needs addressing. What people don't agree on is the cultural reasons for the disproportionate number of black people killed by cops. On the one hand, some say that institutional racism is the cause, on the other hand some say that black people need to be more accountable for their community. In all liklihood it's a mixture of both, with neither party willing to address their own faults while blaming the other for not addressing theirs. It's not unreasonable to compare how poor black people and poor white people live. The "white trash" we think of are rednecks. Are they hanging around in gangs with guns? Are they robbing places? Being economically disadvantaged is a reason, but not an excuse, from criminal behaviour. This criminal behaviour seems to affect black people disproportionately, too. This needs addressing too, but anyone who points this out gets slapped down by the noise makers and branded a racist.

    Now if black people are more likely to commit a crime, it's not unreasonable to deduce that black people will be more likely to encounter the police. On the other hand, if the police are disproportionately attending incidents involving black people, this only serves to reinforce their already bigoted views.

    It takes action from both sides to deescalate tensions.

    Here is a very short page to look at which shows data on the problem. You can read and digest the information in a couple minutes, tops.

    This is kinda the price you pay for your gun freedoms. We don't have guns, so our regular cops don't need to be armed. So when our cops show a bit of brutality, it's nothing more than a truncheon to the head or a kicking in the cell. It's hard for me to know if these figures are excessive or not, since USA is an armed nation and that changes the landscape in which the police have to work in.

    One thing that stands out is - why does it take a video of unmistakable police brutality for the fact that ANY bias in policing exists to be heard? Why do we implicitly trust police to do good when we know that simply cannot be true? All people make mistakes. Every profession has bad actors.

    I don't trust the police. I expect them to "look out for each other", that mentality is inevitable. They are power hungry, aggressive people, they have a sense of impunity, it's like politics, it tends to attract a certain kind of person. In the case of politics, it attracts sociopaths, with the police it's control freaks. There are aspects of the job that are essential to a stable society, and I respect them for that much, but then they also arrest kids for saying mean things on Twitter about a dead American guy. Police brutality isn't just direct violence, it's using law enforcement as a tool to erode our rights. It's more subtle than rubber bullets and tear gas. This is the neofascist world we live in.

    Fascism has been creeping in for a long time, longer than Trump has been in power. This is why I don't consider him to be the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  10. #28360
    So then, if the murder of an unarmed and non-resisting black man by a white cop while three other cops did nothing, if that 'spark' was real, then what part of the ensuing events was orchestrated? Again, you'd have a hard time convincing people that 10s of thousands are being suckered into protesting against an obvious systemic problem against their will. Just because you aren't outraged personally by something doesn't make it implausible that others are.

    The outrage is real. But I think I'm leaning full conspiracy with this, that they intended to kill him to spark this off. Who called the order is anyone's guess. Maybe Trump, maybe someone who wants Trump to lose the election, maybe someone who wants to start a civil war.

    And don't be fooled. Of course I'm outraged. Not just at the killing of a black guy, also the tear gas in the face of women, and the bullets at journalists. I'm just a lot more cynical about what's actually going on. And I'm also outraged by looters, those who beat up people for their political views, those who are actively trying to manipulate others into emotional reactions like defying curfews and attacking police.

    There's so much shit going on in the world it's impossible to not be outraged about something. A constant state of outrage isn't a healthy way to live.This is why I try to emotionally detach myself from world events, and is why it's not immediately obvious to you that I'm outraged about certain things. I'm actively trying to temper my outrage.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #28361
    In the interests of random...

    When the sun goes supernova, from Earth it will be a billion times brighter than a hydrogen bomb going off in front of your face.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #28362
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    Ong, your thoughts on black people in America are difficult to read.
    You seem to think the state of black communities in America today is something they have chosen, or that somehow the poverty of black communities is self-inflicted. Or that we can look at the communities of today with complete ignorance to the past that got us here.

    That ignores the history that has lead us to the situations we see all over the US.

    Black people seem* poor, sure... but there has been widespread, systematic racism in past decades in many subtle ways. We're only a few years past the big reveal that banks were systematically denying loans to poor black communities, while not doing the same for poor white communities. White people have had access to bank loans, mortgages, and small business loans that have been systematically denied to black people on the basis of their addresses.
    This is a subtle way to be racist without invoking race, as those black communities are the result of the past decades' racial segregation policies. It's only been a few decades since society pushed black people into the poorest communities, denied them access to good schools in those neighborhoods, denied them access to borrow money to invest in their communities, and under polices those communities so that crime / gangs hold more sway than is allowed in poor white communities.

    You ask if poor white people are hanging out in gangs with guns and robbing places.
    The answer is YES.
    That is totally a thing. The difference is policing those white communities to enforce law, and prosecute those people.


    *The systematic difference in access to bank loans means that white people get to live in nice houses, and drive nice cars, which they do not own. The banks own those nice things. Whereas black communities do not have access to those loans so they do not have those nice things, but they own everything they have.
    This inequality is under-appreciated. It leads to statements like what you've said, things to the effect that black people are systematically poor. Who's more poor? The communities that own everything they have, or the communities that don't own the most defining optical measures of wealth which they have (houses and cars)?


    There is so much more to say on this, but I don't want to wall of text you, here.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  13. #28363
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    In the interests of random...

    When the sun goes supernova, from Earth it will be a billion times brighter than a hydrogen bomb going off in front of your face.
    When a star goes supernova, it emits more power than the entire rest of the galaxy.

    The Earth will have been swallowed by its Red Giant phase long before the Sun goes supernova.

    As the Sun's core collapses, the heat and pressure produced by the more energetic fusion processes will push the outer layers of the star bigger and bigger, eventually the Red Giant's exterior will be larger than the current orbit of the Earth.

    The Earth will have migrated further from the sun by then, but still, the added solar emissions will eventually cause orbital drag, and the Earth will be slowed, and will fall into the outer layers of the sun. This is a runaway process that will eventually have the Earth merge with the Sun's core.

    This will happen before the supernova.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 06-05-2020 at 12:05 PM.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  14. #28364
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    Supernova rather than white dwarf?
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  15. #28365
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    White dwarf is a stellar remnant, what is left of the star after the supernova.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  16. #28366
    You seem to think the state of black communities in America today is something they have chosen, or that somehow the poverty of black communities is self-inflicted. Or that we can look at the communities of today with complete ignorance to the past that got us here.
    Let's look at this from an individual pov, instead of community. An individual is responsible for his own conduct. Being poor is not a legal defence for criminal behaviour. Neither is being black.

    Poverty is not self inflicted, it's not a choice. Criminal behvaiour is a choice. Those who make that choice are accountable for their own actions.

    We're only a few years past the big reveal that banks were systematically denying loans to poor black communities, while not doing the same for poor white communities.
    This only reinforces my view that what we're seeing is orchestrated. I'm assuming this predates Trump, which takes us into the presidency of others. How can Obama be held in such high regard when he is part of presumably a long line of presidents that oversees such policies? That not one president, including a black man, has put an end to this is hugely telling about how the world really works.

    You ask if poor white people are hanging out in gangs with guns and robbing places.
    The answer is YES.
    Clearly whites are involved in violent crime, because white people are, by volume, the race that police kill the most in USA. Of course, per capita it's a different story. My assumption is that there is a similar per capita tendency for black people to become criminals. Naturally that's related to poverty, but we come back to my first point... poverty is not a choice, but criminal behaviour is.

    That is totally a thing. The difference is policing those white communities to enforce law, and prosecute those people.

    Ok, so the street policing can be down to the increased chance of black communities fostering criminal behaviour, and the increased tensions between the police and black people. However, if there's a difference between the average sentence for a black man and a white man for a comparable crime and assuming comparable criminal history, then that is evidence of systematic racism within the law. That would be the fault of successive governments, all of whom have done nothing to stop systematic racism, and some of whom even have the nerve to accuse their political opponents of racism. This is further evidence that the entire system is rotten.

    None of this changes the fact that an individual is accountable for his own behaviour. And if a community is more likely than another to foster criminals, then the good forces among that community need to recognise that it's not just the system that needs looking at.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #28367
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    When a star goes supernova, it emits more power than the entire rest of the galaxy.

    The Earth will have been swallowed by its Red Giant phase long before the Sun goes supernova.

    As the Sun's core collapses, the heat and pressure produced by the more energetic fusion processes will push the outer layers of the star bigger and bigger, eventually the Red Giant's exterior will be larger than the current orbit of the Earth.

    The Earth will have migrated further from the sun by then, but still, the added solar emissions will eventually cause orbital drag, and the Earth will be slowed, and will fall into the outer layers of the sun. This is a runaway process that will eventually have the Earth merge with the Sun's core.

    This will happen before the supernova.
    It's kinda nice to know that long after I die, the subatomic particles that formed the atoms of my body will be consumed by the sun. That's assuming I haven't fucked off in a spaceship, anyway. That's a non-zero possibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #28368
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    Leaving Earth isn't enough for that, ong. You'd need to leave the solar system.

    The odds of interstellar travel happening in our lifetimes is 0. Given that it's about impossible to prove a 0.

    I mean, there is no known or theoretical plan to get humans on a mission to another star, nor any practical known technology to do so.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  19. #28369
    I could get abducted by aliens and taken out of the solar system.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #28370
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    related to this:



    As much as I dislike cops, I have always resisted the ACAB label because I found it reductionist and ridiculous... but they prove me wrong every single day.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  21. #28371
    "If we can't even knock out an old man who's peacefully protesting, then this isn't the job we signed up for!"

    Fuck them, I hope all cops like them quit too.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  22. #28372
    Meanwhile, Capt. Retard is at it again.



    Yeah, it's a great day that unemployment went down 1%. I bet George Floyd would surely be thinking it's a great day if he wasn't dead.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  23. #28373
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    White dwarf is a stellar remnant, what is left of the star after the supernova.
    Really? I thought a white dwarf and a planetary nebula is what's left from a red giant such as how the sun will end up. I thought supernova is the core collapse stuff that leaves behind a neutron star or a black hole.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  24. #28374
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Really? I thought a white dwarf and a planetary nebula is what's left from a red giant such as how the sun will end up. I thought supernova is the core collapse stuff that leaves behind a neutron star or a black hole.
    Well, apparently I was wrong on this.

    Good catch.

    I was sure that it required a core collapse event, and that the pressure of the infalling stellar mass compressed the core to the electron degeneracy pressure, forming a white dwarf. The rebounding of that infalling mass is the supernova.

    But wikipedia disagrees, saying the requisite pressure can be achieved for a star above 0.8 solar masses, so the sun (being 1 solar mass) will be able to form a white dwarf stellar remnant without a supernova.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  25. #28375
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's look at this from an individual pov, instead of community. An individual is responsible for his own conduct. Being poor is not a legal defence for criminal behaviour. Neither is being black.
    No one is saying that arsonists, looters, and people assaulting police officers by throwing rocks at them are not criminals.

    No one is saying those people are not responsible for their actions, or that they shouldn't be prosecuted for their crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Poverty is not self inflicted, it's not a choice. Criminal behvaiour is a choice. Those who make that choice are accountable for their own actions.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This only reinforces my view that what we're seeing is orchestrated. I'm assuming this predates Trump, which takes us into the presidency of others. How can Obama be held in such high regard when he is part of presumably a long line of presidents that oversees such policies? That not one president, including a black man, has put an end to this is hugely telling about how the world really works.
    I don't see how you're connecting those dots.

    I don't hear anyone saying Trump is responsible for any of the racial injustice. I don't know why you keep asserting this is the case.
    What stories are you seeing that show protestors blaming Trump for the history of racial inequality?

    Just because you mentioned Obama:
    Obama was candid in his opinion that being the first black president meant he had to walk a thin line on racial issues. He did not want to be see as "the" black president, but as "a" black president.
    I'm not defending Obama's civil rights record, and no one else here is doing so. I can't answer your questions on this, because I'm not seeing the stories you are that are praising Obama as some paragon of civil rights.

    IMO, this isn't a problem that 1 president can address. It isn't a problem that can progress when its origin is political. It needed to start from the bottom up, like it currently is, and like the civil rights movement 70 years ago did.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Clearly whites are involved in violent crime, because white people are, by volume, the race that police kill the most in USA. Of course, per capita it's a different story. My assumption is that there is a similar per capita tendency for black people to become criminals. Naturally that's related to poverty, but we come back to my first point... poverty is not a choice, but criminal behaviour is.
    Obviously I agree with your core sentiment that criminal behavior is a personal choice.

    I can only again cite that ignoring the history of why black communities are poor, why their schools are shit, why they can't get access to bank loans - ignoring the history leaves you with a dearth of knowledge that is worth protesting against, IMO.

    Saying something is wrong without educating yourself as to how it got that way isn't mature behavior, to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Ok, so the street policing can be down to the increased chance of black communities fostering criminal behaviour, and the increased tensions between the police and black people. However, if there's a difference between the average sentence for a black man and a white man for a comparable crime and assuming comparable criminal history, then that is evidence of systematic racism within the law. That would be the fault of successive governments, all of whom have done nothing to stop systematic racism, and some of whom even have the nerve to accuse their political opponents of racism. This is further evidence that the entire system is rotten.
    I agree.
    I only again cite, that under-policing black neighborhoods cedes control to the criminal elements in those communities.
    When the police haven't stepped into black communities and police black gangs as vigorously as they step into white communities to police white gangs, then what?
    Then the criminal element holds more sway than the police, and crime rates increase.

    What we've seen is police addressing that tangential increase in crime, and not going after the gangs and their leaders that create an environment of criminality and violence.

    Gangs frequently support themselves financially by dealing drugs - poisoning the minds and bodies of their own communities. Police go after the bottom-end drug dealers without addressing the gangs that are supplying those drugs to the ones that push it on the streets.

    The lack of policing in black communities is a social-political move to further vilify black people as criminals, while actively engaging in behavior that foments such behaviors.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    None of this changes the fact that an individual is accountable for his own behaviour. And if a community is more likely than another to foster criminals, then the good forces among that community need to recognise that it's not just the system that needs looking at.
    Do you see that there is a systemic cause to the crime, now? That under-policing causes more crime?
    Do you see that by systematic under-policing of black communities, the criminal elements bloom?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  26. #28376
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    Cool, happy to be correct for once
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  27. #28377
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post


    related to this:



    As much as I dislike cops, I have always resisted the ACAB label because I found it reductionist and ridiculous... but they prove me wrong every single day.
    update: https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1269...316442625?s=20
    - What looks like at least 50 officers standing in front of a courthouse applaud and cheer for the two cops who shoved and almost killed a 75 year old man being released after getting charged with felony assault.

    This is honestly just a complete mindfuck.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  28. #28378
    I don't hear anyone saying Trump is responsible for any of the racial injustice. I don't know why you keep asserting this is the case.
    I forget you're not on Twitter.

    IMO, this isn't a problem that 1 president can address. It isn't a problem that can progress when its origin is political. It needed to start from the bottom up, like it currently is, and like the civil rights movement 70 years ago did.

    It's an issue that no president has even tried to address. How difficult is it to pass legislation? How difficult is it for a president to speak out publicly about certain racist policies, like bank loans?

    I guess I'm trying to make the point that Trump is no worse, nor any better, than Obama, and all those before. They're all playing the same game, they all answer to the same people, those commonly referred to as "they" or "them" because nobody actually knows who these people are, other than to punt at rich cunts like Soros and the Rotschilds etc.

    idk what the solution is, but what we're seeing isn't it. We're just playing their game.

    I can only again cite that ignoring the history of why black communities are poor, why their schools are shit, why they can't get access to bank loans - ignoring the history leaves you with a dearth of knowledge that is worth protesting against, IMO.

    I didn't know about the bank loans, we don't have systematic racism in this country like this. We definitely have problems, we are far from perfect both legally and socially, but we're making progress.

    We're all oppressed by the system, we're all slaves to money, we're all controlled by the system one way or another. There's no escape. This should be the 99% vs the 1%, which the 1% would not like at all, but they have expertly turned it into a 49.5% vs 49.5% while they sit and watch. They do they by keeping black people in poverty, which in turn causes them to be more likely to commit crimes, which makes them more likely to be shot by cops, especially since the cops' racist views are reinforced by the above-average criminal behaviour of black communities. Meanwhile, white people who live in the white communities are shielded from this racial inequality, distracted with iphones and identity politics, too "privileged" to grasp the gravity of the situation.

    This is one big game and we're losing, we being the 99%.

    Saying something is wrong without educating yourself as to how it got that way isn't mature behavior, to me.

    I think we disagree how we got here. This isn't white people oppressing black people. This is a very small minority oppressing the vast majority, and using race to keep us divided.

    The lack of policing in black communities is a social-political move to further vilify black people as criminals, while actively engaging in behavior that foments such behaviors.

    I agree, and this only supports my ideas.

    Do you see that there is a systemic cause to the crime, now? That under-policing causes more crime?
    Do you see that by systematic under-policing of black communities, the criminal elements bloom?
    This still doesn't mean the individual is not accountable. And I think we agree. But this conversation began with me suggesting black communities also need a period of self reflecting. If these people who turn to crime refused to play the game, and just got on with their lives without selling drugs, without robbing stores, without gang violence, those in power wouldn't be able to use race to divide the people.

    The only way to win their game is to not play.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  29. #28379
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    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  30. #28380
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    Ong presidents don't make laws, governments do. In the case of US, the congress sponsors a bill, which needs a simple majority to pass. It then goes to senate and if they agree to it the president can still veto it. If he doesn't he signs it into law. The president can sign executive orders, which the next president can change at will.

    The point being, modern democracies have many checks and balances to limit the powers of presidents, instead the real power is supposed to be on the people, in the form of representatives.
  31. #28381
    Best graffiti ever...

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #28382
    Ong presidents don't make laws, governments do.
    Ok, but in the context of the discussion, we're talking about policies that disclude black people from loans. I can't imagine too many people knew about this policy, and no politician can publicly back it when it does become known. So if any president, especially a black one, brings it to public attention, that is all it would take to force change.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  33. #28383
    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/st...30545974132736

    I mean this is just nuts. How can these people think they have any moral high ground?

    Cliffs - police horse is charging out of control, runs under a traffic light at full speed, cop hits the lights, taking him off the horse and presumably knocking him clean out. "Protesters" whoop and cheer, some people throw things at him. Other footage shows a fucking bicycle being thrown at a police horse.

    We need a good cull. I hope the next pandemic is a plague. Don't even care if I get it. My only hope really is this isn't the only life I get and I'll have another one in the future in a world that isn't as messed up.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  34. #28384
    ^ I should add the tweet says the protesters knocked the policeman off the horse. That isn't true, the traffic lights took him off the horse. Why the horse bolted is open to debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #28385
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    This is honestly just a complete mindfuck.
    It's like "Good job knocking out that old man!" Wtf.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  36. #28386
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I should add the tweet says the protesters knocked the policeman off the horse. That isn't true, the traffic lights took him off the horse. Why the horse bolted is open to debate.
    The same horse went on the trample a pedestrian in its panic.

    I wouldn't cheer for the cop getting knocked off, except that was one hell of a tackle by the sign.

    Any reason the cops need to be on horseback? There's another video of them charging the crowd like the fucking Light Brigade.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  37. #28387
    Turns out the "policeman" is a she.

    A Guardian journalist has tweeted this...

    can someone out there please edit down to just the guy hitting the traffic light over and over again to the opening bar of gwen stefani’s hollaback girl
    Presumably this policewoman is in hospital right now. These kind of people think they have moral superiority. This really is a fucked up world. I think I'd rather be fucked over by people who at least know they're cunts.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  38. #28388
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    At this point you should kinda notice yourself that you're being hyper sensitive when it comes to men in nice boots, but when a black guy gets murdered you're like: let's wait until all the evidence is in!

    You can't blame anyone for laughing at this unless you want to ban laughter itself. This hits all the checkmarks of physical comedy:

    * England
    * Man loses battle against inanimate object
    * Horse

    I hope he's ok, but what the fuck is he doing on a horse?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  39. #28389
    The same horse went on the trample a pedestrian in its panic.

    Yeah I just saw a clip of that. Didn't hear any cheering for that one. Did hear concern.


    Any reason the cops need to be on horseback? There's another video of them charging the crowd like the fukcing Light Brigade.

    Have you ever been to a football game? This is how they deal with hooligans. Whether it's appropriate for a protest is another matter, but it's not much of a surprise for me to see mounted police. Horse are intimidating, they are effective at controlling some types of unruly mobs. Not sure about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  40. #28390
    It's pretty perverted to get off on someone getting seriously injured for sure.

    If it was one of the cops who've been video'd being cunts to peaceful protesters I might feel differently, but as far as anyone knows, she could be the world's nicest cop.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  41. #28391
    but when a black guy gets murdered you're like: let's wait until all the evidence is in!

    I haven't said this. I said justice should be allowed to run its course. Which incidentally is happening.

    You can't blame anyone for laughing at this unless you want to ban laughter itself. This hits all the checkmarks of physical comedy:

    I'm not blaming people for laughing at it. I'm blaming people for being hypocrites. The people laughing at this are people who think they have moral high ground. Why else are they protesting? They oppose racism, right? They're virture signalling their moral superiority over racists, right?

    When I laugh at jokes about dead babies, there's at least a corner of my brain trying to feel shameful about it. I don't pretend to be morally superior to others. I can be an asshole, I've done shitty things in my life, I'm far from perfect. If you find this funny, good for you. Just don't pretend you're not a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  42. #28392
    So much for social distancing.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  43. #28393
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Have you ever been to a football game? This is how they deal with hooligans. Whether it's appropriate for a protest is another matter, but it's not much of a surprise for me to see mounted police. Horse are intimidating, they are effective at controlling some types of unruly mobs. Not sure about this.
    The problem with horses is they like to panic.

    Get some dogs if you want to scare people, not a fucking animal you can't control.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  44. #28394
    oskar's Avatar
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    I don't think it's funny, I just don't see the outrage. Nobody's being a hypocrite. Black people aren't strangling themselves. This is self inflicted. That is someone who didn't need to be on a horse falling from a horse. Happens all the time. I fell off plenty of horses plenty of times. Both figuratively and literally.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  45. #28395
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The problem with horses is they like to panic.

    Get some dogs if you want to scare people, not a fucking animal you can't control.
    Surprisingly, you're largely wrong here. Horses are resilient as fuck when it comes to these matters, that's why they've been used in battlefields for as long as they've been domesticated. But I don't care how resilient you are, if you're a horse and a bottle hits that massive dick of yours, you're gonna bolt. Occasionally it happens, but for the most part they are very well trained. Even then, injuries are usually more serious if you fall off a horse, rather than get trampled by one.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #28396
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Surprisingly, you're largely wrong here.
    I didn't say they panic all day every day. But the one who took its rider into a sign was clearly in a panic. Their flighty animals - no matter how well trained they are, when the switch goes off, there's no reining them in.

    I wonder why cops gave up on dogs and stuck with horses myself. You don't have to let the dog even bite anyone, just them showing teeth and barking is pretty scary. I'd certainly gtfo out of the way if that was coming towards me.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  47. #28397
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I don't think it's funny, I just don't see the outrage. Nobody's being a hypocrite. Black people aren't strangling themselves. This is self inflicted. That is someone who didn't need to be on a horse falling from a horse. Happens all the time. I fell off plenty of horses plenty of times. Both figuratively and literally.
    I wasn't directing that at your specifically, rather the protesters who were laughing.

    The hypocrisy is taking such a strong moral stance on a matter you feel the need to publicly protest, and then showing yourself to lack any sense of common morality by laughing as a mounted officer is dismounted by a traffic light. I appreciate why someone might laugh, I do have a sick sense of humour, but even my first thought was "holy shit". Falling off a horse is bad enough, at full speed with an impact from a solid object that doesn't move, it's getting close to car crash territory that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  48. #28398
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I didn't say they panic all day every day. But the one who took its rider into a sign was clearly in a panic. Their flighty animals - no matter how well trained they are, when the switch goes off, there's no reining them in.

    I wonder why cops gave up on dogs and stuck with horses myself. You don't have to let the dog even bite anyone, just them showing teeth and barking is pretty scary. I'd certainly gtfo out of the way if that was coming towards me.
    I couldn't tell you specifically what advantage horses have over dogs, but when it comes to controlling football hooligans, horses are effective. The problem with dogs I guess is that if you let them off the lead, they could cause too much harm.

    My point is that horses bolting during crowd trouble is surprisingly rare, and even rarer does it result in serious injury for a civilian. The cop is at greater risk from a horse bolting.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  49. #28399
    If I were a cop I'd rather they gave me a dog than put me on a horse. The dog's not going to take me anywhere I don't want to go, like face first into a sign.

    (And lol at letting it off the lead)
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  50. #28400
    There might even be an element of training going on. I mean, these horses won't have had any human contact for some time, due to the fact there has been no football, or any other large public events where they are deployed. The police may have decided it was a good opportunity to get them up to speed, perhaps underestimating the motives of the crowd.

    idk what happened, it probably isn't a good idea to have horses out there, but I can perhaps see why the cops didn't think we'd protest to the point of lobbing things at horses. The risk of a horse bolting is obviously higher when people throw things at them. Generally football hooligans don't do that. Draw your own conclusions from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  51. #28401
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    IDK if the optics are different in the UK, but police bringing threatening dogs to a protest in the US would be so much worse than simply saying there are vicious dogs protecting the White House, which there probably are.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  52. #28402
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    If I were a cop I'd rather they gave me a dog than put me on a horse. The dog's not going to take me anywhere I don't want to go, like face first into a sign.

    (And lol at letting it off the lead)
    You would not ever get me on a horse. Fuck that. I like dogs a lot more. Horses are ok, but if I share a field with one, I'm aware of where it is at all times, and I'm never directly behind it. With that said, people who work with horses would not agree with this comment of yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  53. #28403
    Normally I'd agree with you Mojo, but we're kinda beyond optics at this point I think.

    Also, what are the optics of bringing military police, or police with no insignia/nametags? If you're trying to move people out of some area, barking dogs seems less harmful than shooting them in the eye with rubber bullets. But what do i know about crowd control - nothing really.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  54. #28404
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    IDK if the optics are different in the UK, but police bringing threatening dogs to a protest in the US would be so much worse than simply saying there are vicious dogs protecting the White House, which there probably are.
    Dogs are used to really shit people up. Horses intimidate people without the need for snarling teeth, it's a lot more subtle. You can't just let the dogs off the lead into a mob, so I don't see what purpose they serve at a protest.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #28405
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You would not ever get me on a horse. Fuck that. I like dogs a lot more. Horses are ok, but if I share a field with one, I'm aware of where it is at all times, and I'm never directly behind it. With that said, people who work with horses would not agree with this comment of yours.
    I'll get on a horse for a nice quiet ride in the country. I wouldn't ride one anywhere it's likely to get startled though.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  56. #28406
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Dogs are used to really shit people up. Horses intimidate people without the need for snarling teeth, it's a lot more subtle. You can't just let the dogs off the lead into a mob, so I don't see what purpose they serve at a protest.

    Dunno, I think this would be pretty scary. But yeah you obviously can't let one loose on the crowd or anything.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  57. #28407
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I'll get on a horse for a nice quiet ride in the country. I wouldn't ride one anywhere it's likely to get startled though.
    I'd rather walk. Country horses are not trained for crowd control, a badger could probably startle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  58. #28408
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Yeah. The optics of having people dressed like police and acting like police, but not clearly marked as police was enough to get the mayors of those places to call it out, so really bad optics, too.

    Still not hearkening to black people being hunted and set upon by dogs from many decades ago. When the optics reflect a past transgression, I assume they bring on a more visceral response.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  59. #28409
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Dunno, I think this would be pretty scary. But yeah you obviously can't let one loose on the crowd or anything.

    It'd be effective at driving a crowd back, but the cops and dog are both exposed to incoming missiles. Better to have riot shields with batons waving about.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  60. #28410
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    St Louis has mounted police. The horses are trained to be familiar with city noises and smells, and are often seen near any large gathering of people. I think the advantage is mostly a higher vantage point above the crowds for police, and slightly more mobility. Plus, like ong said, people will generally get out of the way of a horse.

    I don't imagine they have much opportunity to train the horses to be familiar with the sounds of a protesting crowd, and I'd bet they don't train the horses to have stuff thrown at them. The ASPCA would make a big stink about that, I assume.

    ASPCA = American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  61. #28411
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Still not hearkening to black people being hunted and set upon by dogs from many decades ago. When the optics reflect a past transgression, I assume they bring on a more visceral response.
    There is that...
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  62. #28412
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    AFAIK, most police dogs are trained for their noses, not their teeth.

    I.e. they're drug-sniffing dogs or bomb-sniffing dogs (and not both).
    I've certainly seen police demonstrations at - like county fairs - where the police show how they train attack dogs, though.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  63. #28413
    They don't use alsatians for their noses.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  64. #28414
    We need more protesters like this guy.

    https://twitter.com/TheoShantonas/st...08359912550403
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  65. #28415
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    They don't use alsatians for their noses.
    IDK what kinds of dogs they use.

    I saw German Shepherds at the county fairs I mentioned, but those are the attack dogs.

    When I see a sniffer dog on the Metro train, it's not a GS, something much smaller.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  66. #28416
    This is beyond parody at this point.

    The only one in the entire factory not wearing a mask.

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...bs/3153622001/
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  67. #28417
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    IDK what kinds of dogs they use.

    I saw German Shepherds at the county fairs I mentioned, but those are the attack dogs.

    When I see a sniffer dog on the Metro train, it's not a GS, something much smaller.
    Alsatians are German shepherds, and yes they're used as basically attack dogs. They would possibly assist cops who are going to break down a door and go charging into a house. Or, if you were going to use a dog for crowd control, this would be your guy.

    For drugs and bombs, idk specifically what breeds they use, but it will almost certainly be a hound, like a bloodhound maybe.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #28418
    Apparently the most common dog in the UK police is the Malinois, a breed I'm unfamiliar with. It's a shepherd dog, they use them to guard the White House. They have good noses, so maybe we don't use hounds all that much. I just assumed we would, they have the best noses iirc.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  69. #28419
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    Cool. Thanks.

    I heard once that bloodhounds don't necessarily have better sense of smell, but their long, flappy ears dragging on the ground when their nose is down to sniff helps stir up odors.
    IDK if that's true, as IDK how to quantify how good a dog's sense of smell is.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  70. #28420
    Wow.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  71. #28421
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Yeah. It's not exactly what it sounds like, AFAICT.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNN
    Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council made a commitment to start the process of defunding and “dismantling” the police department, Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender told CNN on Sunday.


    "We're committed to dismantling police as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community, a new model of public safety that actually keeps our communities safe," Bender said.


    Bender said that with nine votes the group of city council members would have a veto proof majority among the 13 city council members.
    Right now, Bender said she and other council members are hearing from their constituents that "right now, our police department is not making our community feel safe."


    "And so our commitment is that every single member of our community have that safety and security that they need," she said, adding that council will work with the community over the next year to build that system.


    When pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN’s Josh Campbell they would shift police funding for other needs and start a discussion of how to replace the current police department.


    “The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term,” Bender said.
    So it sounds like a lot of noise and promises that will almost certainly placate people now, with the end result looking much the same as the current police.

    I don't think anyone with a reasonable thought in their head would expect a lack of police to reduce looting and crime, or not result in rampant vigilantism. IDK, though. I just can't imagine otherwise.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  72. #28422
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Racism, by definition, is prejudices based on race or color. We all have prejudices, they're an inherent property of our minds. Our brains have limited capacity, and the intricacies of human interaction and everything we interact with in the world are complex, it takes a lot of effort to fully understand them, weigh all things individually and apply them to all of our decisions and actions.

    So our brain likes to take shortcuts, and it's pretty good at that. Conceptualizing things is far easier if you can assign clear classifications, put things in simple marked boxes. A grapefruit is a citrus. A bat is a flying rat. The chinese and japanese are from the same general area, and may have some similar visual features, let's group them together. A lot of this is benign, but it will also often lead to oversimplifications and generalizations that can be harmful, even vicious. But we all do it, automatically. We're all inherently racist. The important thing is to be aware of this, and actively challenge your preconceptions, making sure your decisions and actions aren't based on biased thinking.

    My point is, imo everyone is racist (or at the minimum highly susceptible to being), unless they realize and accept this, and take active steps to not be. Thoughts?
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  73. #28423
    Racism, by definition, is prejudices based on race or color.
    Ok, let's just define "prejudice" for clarity...

    preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
    We all have prejudices
    Not necessarily. The Chinese and Japanese are from the same geographic area and share some visual characteristics. So let's call them "East Asian", or even "Oriental". That's not prejudice, that's an observation based on reality. Of course, they do not look identical, so if you were to say "they all look the same to me" then you're being prejudiced because this statement is not based on reality.

    When we put people in boxes based on race, that is not racism.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #28424
    When we put people in boxes based on race, that is not racism.

    idk why I'm so silly but this amuses me as I read it back. I mean if you literally put people in actual boxes based on their race, that's totally racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  75. #28425
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Racism, by definition, is prejudices based on race or color. We all have prejudices, they're an inherent property of our minds. Our brains have limited capacity, and the intricacies of human interaction and everything we interact with in the world are complex, it takes a lot of effort to fully understand them, weigh all things individually and apply them to all of our decisions and actions.

    So our brain likes to take shortcuts, and it's pretty good at that. Conceptualizing things is far easier if you can assign clear classifications, put things in simple marked boxes. A grapefruit is a citrus. A bat is a flying rat. The chinese and japanese are from the same general area, and may have some similar visual features, let's group them together. A lot of this is benign, but it will also often lead to oversimplifications and generalizations that can be harmful, even vicious. But we all do it, automatically. We're all inherently racist. The important thing is to be aware of this, and actively challenge your preconceptions, making sure your decisions and actions aren't based on biased thinking.

    My point is, imo everyone is racist (or at the minimum highly susceptible to being), unless they realize and accept this, and take active steps to not be. Thoughts?

    Pretty much agree. We're all hard wired to use heuristics (shortcuts), and we're also hard-wired to be tribal, to think in terms of 'us' and 'them'. When you see someone whose face is completely different to yours, your brain wants to classify them as a 'them'. I don't think we can get away from that.

    However, there's a difference between what you might call a hard-wired preference and a lot of the nasty shit that goes on in the world based on race. It's not what you think or feel that makes a difference, it's how you act. And it takes a conscious effort to recognize how you treat people differently based on appearance and another conscious effort to avoid doing it. That's hard, and I think a lot of people just can't be bothered. And there's some proportion of people who are just cunts too, and use race as an excuse to be a cunt to another person.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.

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