Why Aren't Women Punished for Fake Rape Accusations?

[spoonitnow]

In cases where a woman has completely and undeniably fabricated a rape story against a man (or against men), why isn't she punished in the same way that you would be punished for other types of false criminal accusations?

The typical reasoning given is that it makes it less likely for real victims to come forward. I would argue that it would make it easier because people would be less likely to assume the woman was lying if there was a higher chance of a punishment if she was making it up. This should lead to people taking rape accusations more seriously, and in turn it would make it more likely that investigations are taken more seriously.

Here's a great example: http://www.thefrisky.com/2009-09-17/...aped-afterall/

Cliffs: Chick gets gangbanged by some guys she just met and cries rape whenever her boyfriend finds out. The guys involved are only saved because it was recorded on video, and it was clear that she wasn't raped. She was not charged.

To clarify, I don't think that there should be consequences whenever it's not clear that the woman lied. Just like any other crime, there should be substantial proof that she lied, etc.

[boost]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you 100%. This shit has always baffled me.

[Savy]

Dunno, what does the law actually say regarding this? How does it compare to say if you accused someone of another serious crime and it turns out to be a false claim? Preferably a serious crime which is committed on the person who is making the accusation.

[bikes]

the argument from what i understand is that since rape is somewhat difficult to prove (idk if this is true or not, am not versed in civil stuffs) that if false accusations of rape were heavily punished that people who have actually been raped would be more reluctant to come forward due to that since rape is hard to prove that if found innocent the potential raper could claim false accusation, etc etc.

not that i agree with that, it's just the arguement from what i understand

[wufwugy]

Because of sexism. It's the same reason why everybody tends to turn a blind eye to a girl hitting a guy, but if the guy ever hits back, even when tempered and in self defense, he looks like the bad guy. The sexism is that we still don't view women as equals, and treating them like equals in these certain ways just makes us look like bullies. So in subtle ways, prosecuting women for these "womens issues" is frowned upon because women are still dainty and inferior in the back of our minds

In the US, black men got the vote before white women. Think about that: even in a horribly racist culture, men of that race have privileges that women of the majority race don't. Also, I just watched Chasing Amy and was blown away that an entire movie could be premised around the fact that a guy is upset about a woman's past. We have an incredibly sexist culture, and very few realize it. In fact, most deny it

[rong]

Meninism ftw

[a500lbgorilla]

Yonic society that pampers its wombs.

It doesn't anger me though. Anger is an emotion and I'm not allowed to have those.

edit: posting images no longer works and that's terrible

[d0zer]

This thread promotes rape culture

[rong]

If you haven't tried it you don't know.

[rong]

We don't all get battle sex.

[spoonitnow]

As far as protecting yourself from this sort of thing with random hookups and/or chicks with boyfriends and/or chicks with husbands and/or shady and/or possibly crazy chicks, I'm a fan of actively creating evidence that points towards your innocence like texting with the girl before and after, getting her to acknowledge details of the encounter (eg: "did you like it when I x on/in your y while you rubbed your z"), etc. Even just asking the girl if she had fun getting the D and getting a reply can help to save your ass in case she decides to flip on you.

[d0zer]

As far as protecting yourself from this sort of thing with random hookups and/or chicks with boyfriends and/or chicks with husbands and/or shady and/or possibly crazy chicks, I'm a fan of actively creating evidence that points towards your innocence like texting with the girl before and after, getting her to acknowledge details of the encounter (eg: "did you like it when I x on/in your y while you rubbed your z"), etc. Even just asking the girl if she had fun getting the D and getting a reply can help to save your ass in case she decides to flip on you.

Maybe if you weren't so date-rapey, or had better mate-selection you wouldn't have these concerns.

[spoonitnow]

the argument from what i understand is that since rape is somewhat difficult to prove (idk if this is true or not, am not versed in civil stuffs) that if false accusations of rape were heavily punished that people who have actually been raped would be more reluctant to come forward due to that since rape is hard to prove that if found innocent the potential raper could claim false accusation, etc etc.

not that i agree with that, it's just the arguement from what i understand

I just want to point out that this is typical female "logic" that does not hold under the smallest amount of scrutiny. A case that cannot lead to a conviction does not imply a false rape case, etc.

[spoonitnow]

Maybe if you weren't so date-rapey, or had better mate-selection you wouldn't have these concerns.

WP. Your trolling has been top-tier for a long time.

On a serious note, one of the problems with rape in this country is that consent has been pushed to have almost a subjective definition. For example, if a man and a woman are both drunk and have sex, then it can be claimed to be rape because an intoxicated person cannot give consent. This type of shit makes people take rape less seriously, and it contributes to the problems that real rape victims have when coming forward.

[spoonitnow]

My friend, call him Josh, had a three-way a couple of girls at his 18th birthday party in a nearby town. All three of them were completely sober. The girls were both 14, and he turned 18 a few days before this.

The mother of one of the girls found out about it somehow and decided that he was guilty of statutory rape. She might as well had accused him of double homicide because that made just about as much sense.

Long story short, his threesome was not a crime in any way, shape or form. The most common age of consent in the United States is 16. However, in many states, there are a number of exceptions. For example, in North Carolina, the age of consent is 16. However, if you have sex with someone under 16, that's fine as long as you're not more than four years older.

The girl's mother did everything she could to drag his reputation through the mud claiming that he was a rapist, a pedophile and so on and so forth. It eventually took letters from a lawyer to get her to stop.

I'm throwing this story out there because it sheds a little bit of light on what it's like to be a false rape accusation victim and survivor whenever the person who is accusing you believes 100% that you did commit a crime.

[Savy]

Probably shouldn't be fucking 14 year old girls in all honesty though.

[spoonitnow]

Probably shouldn't be fucking 14 year old girls in all honesty though.

That's entirely subjective.

[!Luck]

We all hate that guy cause obv we are jelly of the 3-some. ldo.

[Willishere]

Same sh1t here in my country, they don't get punished and worst thing is that you lost respect from other people even though you are not guilty... sorry my english is not that good so I think you'll understand what I'm trying to mean here.

BTW happy christmas eve

[flomo]

Same sh1t here in my country, they don't get punished and worst thing is that you lost respect from other people even though you are not guilty... sorry my english is not that good so I think you'll understand what I'm trying to mean here.

BTW happy christmas eve

read this with my best Russian accent

[Keith]

read this with my best Russian accent

good to see an american dispelling the myth that americans have no knowledge of world affairs.

[flomo]

Sorry

Soviet Russian accent

[JKDS]

What about the other implication of punishing false accusers?

A punishment for falsely accusing someone of rape would heavily deter anyone who lied, in spite of the punishment, from coming forward. Since rape is very much a he-said-she-said kind of thing, deterring liars from eventually coming forward seems bad.

Further, im not sure punishment for false accusations would effectively deter people from doing it. Its often young people who cant deal with issues at home that cry rape, and im not sure they would actually care (or even know about) a legal consequence for doing so.

[spoonitnow]

What about the other implication of punishing false accusers?

A punishment for falsely accusing someone of rape would heavily deter anyone who lied, in spite of the punishment, from coming forward. Since rape is very much a he-said-she-said kind of thing, deterring liars from eventually coming forward seems bad.

Further, im not sure punishment for false accusations would effectively deter people from doing it. Its often young people who cant deal with issues at home that cry rape, and im not sure they would actually care (or even know about) a legal consequence for doing so.

Being a liar is not sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime.

No punishment prevents 100 percent of the behavior.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

[JKDS]

Being a liar is not sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime.

Cmon, you know thats not what I intended to say. Obviously I meant those who falsely accuse people of rape...not lying in a massively general sense :/

No punishment prevents 100 percent of the behavior.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Agreed, but so what? Im not excusing their behavior, nor did I state that deterrence would be effective. In fact I doubted deterrence would be effective at all.

My point is this:
1) If there is a punishment for false rape accusations, then women will be much less likely to admit to falsely accusing someone of rape; and thus someone falsely accused of rape is more likely to go to jail.

2) the deterrence value of this punishment is too minimal to outweigh 1).

[wufwugy]

A punishment for falsely accusing someone of rape would heavily deter anyone who lied, in spite of the punishment, from coming forward. Since rape is very much a he-said-she-said kind of thing, deterring liars from eventually coming forward seems bad.

Ah yes. This is the reason. It's a reasonable one. I knew I was forgetting something

It's a shitty truth, but still truth

[spoonitnow]

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

[agnesamurphy]

Being a liar is not sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime.

Not entirely true. Lying on the stand in a courtroom is perjury. Lying to the police, depending on the circumstances, could be considered obstruction of justice.

[spoonitnow]

Not entirely true. Lying on the stand in a courtroom is perjury. Lying to the police, depending on the circumstances, could be considered obstruction of justice.

Neither of these are examples of being convicted just for being known for being a liar which is, to my understanding, the original issue.

[wufwugy]

Neither of these are examples of being convicted just for being known for being a liar which is, to my understanding, the original issue.

if this ever happens, spoon is in trouuuuuuuuuble

[spoonitnow]

Nick Diaz is a crybaby who can eat a dick.

[wufwugy]

You must be new here. I said that like over a year ago

[spoonitnow]

But I'm a liiiiiiar.

[ISillyDurrrAK]

And are people fakely accusing others of murder punished?

[oskar]

I guess you can sue for defamation but if you can't prove a negative you're just wasting time energy and money.
May be more clear cut in this particular case, but link in OP looks like a reliable news source like Helen Keller looks like a reliable witness in court.
If you are personally interested in keeping yourself out of situations like this you should look out for red flags in relationships, such as: your partner just took three E after emptying a beer bong and is now consenting to an anal gangbang with you and five other honor students. Stay away.

[boost]

True, girls with all their marbles, who won't consent to an anal gang bang, offer a much lower risk of false rape accusations-- yet these low false-rape-risk girls aren't consenting to anal gang bangs.

And, as you can see, therein lies the great dilemma.

[aubreymcfate]

True, girls with all their marbles, who won't consent to an anal gang bang, offer a much lower risk of false rape accusations-- yet these low false-rape-risk girls aren't consenting to anal gang bangs.

And, as you can see, therein lies the great dilemma.

lol what are you talking about, there are plenty of sane and awesome kinky chicks that would love that.

[boost]

Is that an offer?

[spoonitnow]

I guess you can sue for defamation but you can't prove a negative you're just wasting time energy and money.
May be more clear cut in this particular case, but link in OP looks like a reliable news source like Helen Keller looks like a reliable witness in court.
If you are personally interested in keeping yourself out of situations like this you should look out for red flags in relationships, such as: your partner just took three E after emptying a beer bong and is now consenting to an anal gangbang with you and five other honor students. Stay away.

The bold doesn't apply to proving false rape accusation. In plenty of cases, you can prove that someone purposefully lied about a crime taking place.

Also, TheFrisky is not a credible news source which is exactly why it was used. It is known for throwing everything but the kitchen sink at men who have been merely accused of rape while being a big defender of not going after women who have made false accusations.

[ChipEaterMan]

lol what are you talking about, there are plenty of sane and awesome kinky chicks that would love that.

Yes, I was lucky enough in life to meet some of those awesome kinky chicks but i don't want to go into details

[agnesamurphy]

Turns out, women ARE punished for false rape accusations http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/m...tence-21569725

[boost]

She got 5 years.. the innocent guy was in jail for about a decade. I don't advocate "eye for an eye" justice, but this seems like an ideal use of it. If your sentence is less than the time served by the innocent person imprisoned because you knowingly perpetrated a false accusation, your sentence should be increased to match the time they served.

[spoonitnow]

Turns out, women ARE punished for false rape accusations http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/m...tence-21569725

They are very rarely compared to the number of times they aren't.

[d0zer]

They are very rarely compared to the number of times they aren't.

Let's see some stats. This MRA crusade of yours gets weaker with every post.

In other news, chip eater posting thinly-veiled brags about his sexual conquests with NSFW sexiness in a rape thread

[spoonitnow]

Let's see some stats. This MRA crusade of yours gets weaker with every post.

In other news, chip eater posting thinly-veiled brags about his sexual conquests with NSFW sexiness in a rape thread

I'm pretty close to nominating you as troll of the decade.

[agnesamurphy]

They are very rarely compared to the number of times they aren't.

Perhaps, but you also have to consider who's accusing this person of lying. There are plenty of men and women who tell the truth but are accused of lying, or are told by their attackers that no one would believe them if they do tell someone. This was an issue in the Daisy Coleman case in Missouri, where her family said that everyone thought Daisy and her family were lying about the incident. http://abcnews.go.com/US/maryville-t...ry?id=21492788

Did Daisy lie? You do have to consider that her accused attacker has an incentive to say Daisy's lying and to say it was consensual, even if Daisy has her own incentive to claim a false rape.

The overall point is that sure, there will always be people who cry wolf. But, it's equally dangerous just to say that all those people who cry wolf need to be punished and we should just get them. As Bikes said, it's a whole lot of he said, she said, and this position means people who are telling the truth get punished for doing so because others think they're lying.

[spoonitnow]

Perhaps, but you also have to consider who's accusing this person of lying. There are plenty of men and women who tell the truth but are accused of lying, or are told by their attackers that no one would believe them if they do tell someone. This was an issue in the Daisy Coleman case in Missouri, where her family said that everyone thought Daisy and her family were lying about the incident. http://abcnews.go.com/US/maryville-t...ry?id=21492788

Did Daisy lie? You do have to consider that her accused attacker has an incentive to say Daisy's lying and to say it was consensual, even if Daisy has her own incentive to claim a false rape.

The overall point is that sure, there will always be people who cry wolf. But, it's equally dangerous just to say that all those people who cry wolf need to be punished and we should just get them. As Bikes said, it's a whole lot of he said, she said, and this position means people who are telling the truth get punished for doing so because others think they're lying.

It's not he said she said when it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone lied about being raped by someone else. That's how you get convicted. That is, unless you're accused of rape.

[agnesamurphy]

It's not he said she said when it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone lied about being raped by someone else. That's how you get convicted. That is, unless you're accused of rape.

Well, going back to the OP, simply lying about rape & having proof of the lie just isn't enough for a crime. That's probably why the woman in the OP wasn't punished. Unless, she did something like fabricate/tamper with evidence, or lie on the stand, or decide to press charges and lie to investigators, then simply saying bullshit isn't a crime. I can talk about how I was raped and how this person did it all I want, but unless I go to the police and say, "I want to press charges and get an investigation going, then you can't punish me for anything under the law.

This is why the woman in the article I posted was punished for lying. She made up evidence and obstructed justice with her stories, since she took away time and resources from the authorities. Just because someone is making your life hell with lies doesn't necessarily mean they are breaking the law and can be punished under a court of law for it.

It's unfortunate that the lie is a rape accusation and that causes a lot of problems, but lying in and of itself isn't a crime, even if you are lying about about another crime. It only counts if you get the legal thing going, where perjury, obstruction of justice and what not would apply. The only other way a person could be punished for a false rape accusation is if they first went to the media, then they could be charged with slander/libel. Although those crimes are usually tough to charge because you have to prove the person a) knew they were lying and b) had intent to harm by lying to media, then it's actually not hard if there's proof of the lie.

[spoonitnow]

Well, going back to the OP, simply lying about rape & having proof of the lie just isn't enough for a crime. That's probably why the woman in the OP wasn't punished. Unless, she did something like fabricate/tamper with evidence, or lie on the stand, or decide to press charges and lie to investigators, then simply saying bullshit isn't a crime. I can talk about how I was raped and how this person did it all I want, but unless I go to the police and say, "I want to press charges and get an investigation going, then you can't punish me for anything under the law.

This is why the woman in the article I posted was punished for lying. She made up evidence and obstructed justice with her stories, since she took away time and resources from the authorities. Just because someone is making your life hell with lies doesn't necessarily mean they are breaking the law and can be punished under a court of law for it.

It's unfortunate that the lie is a rape accusation and that causes a lot of problems, but lying in and of itself isn't a crime, even if you are lying about about another crime. It only counts if you get the legal thing going, where perjury, obstruction of justice and what not would apply. The only other way a person could be punished for a false rape accusation is if they first went to the media, then they could be charged with slander/libel. Although those crimes are usually tough to charge because you have to prove the person a) knew they were lying and b) had intent to harm by lying to media, then it's actually not hard if there's proof of the lie.

To blow the theory in the bold out of the water, from the link in the OP:

"The girl has since been suspended from Hofstra and charges have been dropped against the alleged rapists."

[wufwugy]

The problem could only exist if rape convictions were made on tenuous ground. The implication to not prosecuting women who lied about it is that the only way to overturn any wrongful conviction is for her to come forward since the conviction was heavily based on her testimony. If we want women to be prosecuted when they reveal they weren't telling the truth, then we need to make sure convictions have little to do with their testimony in the first place. Which is how it should be, unfortunately