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KK on coordinated flop, half the table calls

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  1. #1

    Default KK on coordinated flop, half the table calls

    $1/$2 game 8-handed game

    4 people limp, I have KK on BTN, raise to $20, BB calls and all limpers call.
    stack sizes, roughly: Me $360 BB $250 UTG $300 UTG+1 $350 CO $150

    (pot $101) flop:
    all check, I bet $70, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, CO calls

    (pot $380) turn:
    all check, I check

    River:
    all check, Hero?

    Starting to like the concept of the Fnord underbet. I was thinking to thin the field out and get it in on a good turn card, but when 4 people called I was pretty much giving up. Is turn check terrible?

    By river it's obvious no one has a huge hand, so maybe bet like $100 to get a crying call from someone with a pair? I don't feel a bigger bet is going to get called by worse.
    Last edited by baudib; 08-21-2011 at 07:28 AM.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  2. #2
    Still trying to wrap my brain around reverse-implied-odds. But isn't that what's happening when you check the turn. You're ahead, your opponents are probably drawing, and they probably won't put more chips in the pot wthout improving.

    Now that I say it to myself, I'm not sure if it applies because some players here have at least 1 pair and would put more chips in the pot. Also, the fact that you can get away from your hand when the obvious draw hits, tells me that this probably isn't the classic RIO situation.

    I dont' like the turn check. No one has a straight because they wouldn't have passed up two chances to bet into five players. Two pair is probably unlikely since they would try and protect their hand from the straight. Same thing goes for sets.

    Given your opponents likely holdings (1 pair hands, Straight draws, and combinations of the two), half the deck can ruin your day on the river. As played though, the deuce is about as good a river as you'll ever hit, so yeah, I would toss in $100
  3. #3
    Fnord's Avatar
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    As played, river is probably a v-bet but I would wimp out and be happy to check it down.

    I would under-bet the flop obv and probably drop my hand to any serious, credible resistance.
  4. #4
    So the rationale for a flop underbet is a combination of masking your cbets/value bets, as well as possibly inducing a spew from LAGs and making tighter villains turn their hands face up earlier in the hand?
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnholio View Post
    So the rationale for a flop underbet is a combination of masking your cbets/value bets, as well as possibly inducing a spew from LAGs and making tighter villains turn their hands face up earlier in the hand?
    No, I think the idea in spots like this is to charge something/get value from a wide range of worse while not pot committing ourselves when we're going to not be happy to put a ton of money into the pot.

    edit: read Fnord's post in pf's JJ on nasty board hand

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2047807
    Last edited by baudib; 08-12-2011 at 05:56 PM.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  6. #6
    Fnord's Avatar
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    It either gets all the 2, 3 and maybe 4 out hands out of the pot or extracts value from them (if they insist on calling.) Sometimes ever better hands will fold to a small, but non-trival bet if only due to the very real threat of a raise behind them.
  7. #7
    check river with no reads, someone always manages to slow play T8 here in a live game because they assume someone else is trapping with QJ.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
    check river with no reads, someone always manages to slow play T8 here in a live game because they assume someone else is trapping with QJ.
    I was sorta thinking if I'm beat someone has T8 or 98 but I think it's probably worth a vbet to get paid by Tx/9x?

    for the most part no one has a problem with checking the turn?
    Last edited by baudib; 08-16-2011 at 04:36 PM.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  9. #9
    I like betting 100 OTT better than OTR but I think check is good also

    ps awesome game selection!
  10. #10
    ha

    I didn't include reads because it seemed obvious what kind of players and ranges are in play.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  11. #11
    rpm's Avatar
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    what a bizarre hand. i think we can actually bet something like $90-$100 on the river and get crying calls from Tx. all of their ranges seem so capped that i doubt i could check this one back. though you would be a better judge of how these games play + how often people check two pair or even 76s type hands in these spots.
  12. #12
    Is under betting all streets with the intent to b/f a bad idea ?

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