[spoonitnow strategy] Leading the Flop and the Relationships to Continuation Betting

[spoonitnow]

This week's post is a combination of something you probably aren't doing to exploit your opponents and something you probably aren't thinking about to make your ranges easier to work with when your opponents are trying to exploit you.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/l...-betting-17653

Discuss.

[spoonitnow]

Here's one lesson from this week's article: It's possible to exploit your opponent's continuation betting tendencies by adjusting your flop leading range.

Suppose that your opponent continuation bets a very high percentage of the time. As we've talked about in the articles from previous weeks, you'll want to exploit him by having a strong range when he's continuation betting. One way to get a stronger range against his continuation bets would be to lead the flop with a weak range. These weak hands will no longer be in your checking range, and that naturally makes it stronger.

Exploitation is easier when you understand how your ranges relate to each other and plan accordingly.

[Savy]

Always forget to comment on this.

Funnily enough was thinking about this concept last night whilst playing some HU games. I felt like I was getting exploited by checking back too many weak holdings against people who were cbetting a lot of the time. Made me realise that I need to tighten up a bit OOP preflop as I need to defend less when people are willing to cbet such a huge percentage and that there is no point me donking any good hands because they are constantly cbetting anyway.

Article made it clearer to understand though and was laid out much better so really helped to read it thanks.

[spoonitnow]

So who wants to post some examples where they have led into their opponents instead of checking to give their opponents a chance to continuation bet?

[jackvance]

Nice article this is exactly something I'm trying to flesh out in my own play. Specific questions/examples:
- Will you incorporate sets on a dead board in your donking range?
- How about sets on a drawy board? (I mean as in, not at all, sometimes, often,..)
- What about middle pair or a pp between top and mid? What read would you need on your opponent to lead the flop here?

[Savy]

So who wants to post some examples where they have led into their opponents instead of checking to give their opponents a chance to continuation bet?

An example of someone donking against me on the flop. Shows how this is an effective tool because I was completely lost to where he was at.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

MP ($1.67)
CO ($0.77)
Hero (Button) ($2.25)
SB ($1.88)
BB ($3.24)
UTG ($1.22)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K
1 fold, MP bets $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.18, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.47) 9, 4, 5 (2 players)
BB bets $0.44, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.47 | Rake: $0.02

Results below:

Spoiler: Show

BB didn't show

Villain was 20/11, Opener was 53/29. Both approximately 50 hands.

I was pretty lost, but I think it's a fold. My 3betting range in that spot is very value heavy so AK is definitely one of the weaker hands in my range, all my higher PP type hands that I'd have 3bet would have obviously been peeling, maybe raising a set and some KQ and weaker Ax in my range however I don't think villain is bluffing very often so would depend upon finding a read he can fold overpairs (which at 2nl he probably can't).

[spoonitnow]

Nice article this is exactly something I'm trying to flesh out in my own play. Specific questions/examples:
- Will you incorporate sets on a dead board in your donking range?
- How about sets on a drawy board? (I mean as in, not at all, sometimes, often,..)
- What about middle pair or a pp between top and mid? What read would you need on your opponent to lead the flop here?

Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes.

All of these questions are starting out by asking what to do with a certain hand. Instead, you should be asking what part of your opponent's strategy you can exploit and then set up your ranges so that it happens.

[jackvance]

Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes.

All of these questions are starting out by asking what to do with a certain hand. Instead, you should be asking what part of your opponent's strategy you can exploit and then set up your ranges so that it happens.

This is true, but it can be said of most of poker's decisions too. I'm thinking more along the lines of, what if my opponent is unknown? To try to build a statically correct/thought-out strategy. Then deviate from this strategy based on reads, but keep it in as a baseline. I hope that makes sense..

The AK hand, I think it's a fold, looks like he is ahead with a pair, and even if he's bluffing you aren't sure that you'll even get paid off if you hit your 6-outer.

[Stacks]

maybe raising a set and some KQ and weaker Ax in my range

If you are going to raise as a bluff ever, I don't see why you'd fold AK, but raise with KQ and weaker Ax.

[spoonitnow]

This is true, but it can be said of most of poker's decisions too. I'm thinking more along the lines of, what if my opponent is unknown? To try to build a statically correct/thought-out strategy. Then deviate from this strategy based on reads, but keep it in as a baseline. I hope that makes sense..

The AK hand, I think it's a fold, looks like he is ahead with a pair, and even if he's bluffing you aren't sure that you'll even get paid off if you hit your 6-outer.

Your opponent won't be unknown for very long, so these decisions won't come up very often. It doesn't take many hands to be able to find something that you can try to exploit.

If you really want to, then just try to make sure teach of your ranges is about equally strong. Trying to get this 100% perfectly balanced isn't really worth it.

[Savy]

If you are going to raise as a bluff ever, I don't see why you'd fold AK, but raise with KQ and weaker Ax.

AK arguably has enough equity in that situation to call with some good showdown value if he is full of shit, though I doubt I call three streets with it. Stuff like KQ etc doesn't.

[jackvance]

Your opponent won't be unknown for very long, so these decisions won't come up very often. It doesn't take many hands to be able to find something that you can try to exploit.

If you really want to, then just try to make sure teach of your ranges is about equally strong. Trying to get this 100% perfectly balanced isn't really worth it.

I like to have a good baseline idea of what your strategy is. En then adjust that baseline depending on reads. A read is also never black and white, but a shade of grey. And you wanted to have a discussion.

I've been incorporating donking succesfully in my play today. Not much to say though, just looking for spots and trying to adjust my play.

[steelsatin]

Cool ill read this a few times ! I think the baseline strategy is to adjust jackvance ,to exploit an opponent strengths and also weaknesses by counteracting their habits,
don't get me wrong tho' I am defiantly no expert lol far from it !

[mondayscool]

Found a couple hands that I think apply here.


Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players

Hero (BB): $12.71 (254.2 bb)
SB: $4.62 (92.4 bb) 37/2 | 100% fold to cb | undefined cb | 66 hands

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 A
SB raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.20) 5 3 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.15

So I lead here as a semi bluff to capture any fold equity from any random broadways I thought he might have that still have a decent amount of equity against my hand. It's probably a little questionable as his range is supposed to be quite tight (2% PFR) but that was at 6 max, and this was a breaking table. Thoughts?





Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

BTN: $27.73 (110.9 bb) 35/26 | 86% cb | 50% fold to cb | 48% ATS | 70 hands
Hero (SB): $28.32 (113.3 bb)
BB: $19.49 (78 bb)
UTG: $27.63 (110.5 bb)
MP: $68.42 (273.7 bb)
CO: $50.23 (200.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T K
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.40, BB folds

Flop: ($1.25) Q 7 A (2 players)
Hero bets $1

I lead here again as a semi bluff to capture any fold equity I might have from middle pairs, and also to prevent him from c betting and forcing me to c/f all the equity I flopped. I don't like c/c and I don't like to c/f against this guy as he's c betting close to his entire range on this flop, so I lead.





Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

BTN: $10.69 (106.9 bb) 44/25 | 80% cb | 50% fold to cb | 43% ATS | 50 hands
Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $6.15 (61.5 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 8
CO folds, BTN raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.35, BB folds

Flop: ($0.90) 5 T 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60

This is a spot where in hindsight I don't really like my lead, for a couple reasons. a) He's c betting with a high freq so there's no need to value bet here, I can let him do it for me. And b) I'm pretty much crushing this relatively dry board so by betting here I'm folding out all kinds of hands that can hit something and pay off later in the hand (eg. overcards, smaller PP's).

[spoonitnow]

With the first hand, you can expect his pre-flop range to be fairly strong. Your flop lead is bluffing into a strong range when you want to be bluffing into weak ranges instead.

On hand two, what about a check/raise instead? His pre-flop range is really wide, and his flop continuation betting range is pretty wide. It would seem like you can get him to bet/fold an impressive amount here.

I agree with checking the third hand. You want him to put in the most money the most often here, and since he continuation bets so often, it doesn't make sense to lead.

[spoonitnow]

Don't forget to check out this week's article:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ts-195051.html

The topic is very important!

[Pascal]

YAY Spoonitnow article