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Let's form some ranges: A couple seats to the right of a button straddle

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  1. #1

    Default Let's form some ranges: A couple seats to the right of a button straddle

    So at my cardroom, there's a Mississippi straddle, and many LAGs and TAG wannabes alike take the opportunity to straddle the BU (and sometimes the CO). I find this leads to a lot of juicy steal opportunities, but I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around target frequencies and hand selection and the like.

    So let's say straddler is a TAG-ish player; mostly only comes in for a raise preflop, is active postflop with vbets and draws, etc. They raise their straddle option infrequently enough that they might only be doing it for value, but they are a bit defensive/stationy if they sense someone is trying to steal their straddle.

    So button ($500) straddles at a 1/3NL table for $6. SB folds, BB limps, 1 other limper from some so-and-so loose-passive, and folds to us in the HJ. To clarify, there are two players left to act behind us: the CO (standard loose-passive), who has not VPIPed yet, and the BU, who already has $6 committed.

    For more context, I'll say that I've found that $25-$30 is seen as too much money to commit to the usual J9o riff raff that loose-passives generally happily l/c preflop, but everyone gets sticky quickly if the same usual suspects are raising to that amount, and the blinds and EP players might even get a little trappy with their premiums. Due to sample size issues, I'm speaking with a mix of experience and speculation.

    So how often should we be raising here? What kind of hands should we be raising here? Maybe the first time or two, straight equity hands will play the best, but as our image gets dirtier, we should only be doing it with semi-coordinated hands so we can barrel? Should we just thank villain for blindly committing money and building the pot for when we get a value hand? If so, what does the bottom of our value range look like?

    And what's our limping range look like here?

    Another spot I've gotten into is when it's just folded around to us (blinds included), and I pretty much just make it $18 in with like 50% of hands. Risking $18 to make $10 sounds like a wondrous price, but the fact that the continuer(s) will have position on me when they defend makes it hard for me to think we have a huge advantage by making them call a lot. The nice thing, I think, is that players don't really know how to play back in these games, even with position, but it still feels optimistic to think that I'm going to outplay 33% of ATC with K2o OOP.
  2. #2
    I think you have to pretend it is a loose-passive $3-$6 game with very shallow stacks.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    I think you have to pretend it is a loose-passive $3-$6 game with very shallow stacks.
    That's fine with an UTG straddle, but many things change with a BU straddle. The blinds have already acted and established the strength of their hand (though this effect is obviously vitiated if they start getting trappy with premiums), so our preflop position is comparable to the BU under normal circumstances, the one big problem being that the "blinds" get to act behind us postflop.

    The other big difference is that when we limp, we will have the effective button 0% of the time postflop, and in the particular scenario I outlined, the person acting behind us is not a corpse.
  4. #4
    I like button straddling, most people hate it and old bats will complain and trap for sure. I think it depends on the player, there are many different tag types as far as their personal range goes. I tend to raise any ace or suited broadway. If theres straddle plus two limpers plus blinds thats 16 in the pot, i make it minimum 20 and flat any raise within reason.( im not calling a 5x to $100 with KTs,etc) Plus our premiums obviously, i tend to shy away from PPs just because we end up set mining because of the dynamic of the straddle were going to be OOP all the time. Villian is also more likely to make a play at the pot on later street where we will be in hero calling situation.
  5. #5
    It's not that different for CO, sure the option is still behind you but you don't have to worry about the blinds waking up with a monster.

    as for postflop it's true we never have absolute position but making him play postflop with a decidedly weaker range isn't huge.

    It's a much bigger adjustment for the blinds, who are totally boned and yeah, the blinds will trap more with premiums.

    I think first in should just pretend there's not even a straddle and let the button in.

    the more interesting decisions come when there are already callers in the pot.

    Basically, I think we need to manipulate the pot size to try to create the SPR we want with our specific hand.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post

    Basically, I think we need to manipulate the pot size to try to create the SPR we want with our specific hand.
    I never thought of this, good point dib.
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong

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