Strategy for building and keeping an online poker bankrolll

[jterry]

Forgive me for this post being so long but I thought some of the newer players to online poker, especially those starting out at the micro limit no limit hold’em cash tables, would find this useful, and that I could get some feedback from those who’ve gone through this process already.

I’ve been playing poker for about 4 years and I’m at best a break even / slightly losing player. When I started playing low limit online I lost about $1500 over my first year of online poker. I play recreational, low limit hold’em, including cash games, tournaments and online, but mostly tournaments. I haven’t kept records of my poker winnings or losses. I started off playing like a rock, and only betting / raising with pocket pairs, AK and AQ etc. (i.e. only playing premium hands)

I read a lot of online poker articles from sites such as flopturnriver.com, learn-texas-holdem.com, Full Tilt Poker, etc. I like to visit the local Chapters sore and read some poker books that I don’t already own. I’ve purchased several poker books including Harrington on Hold’em 1 & 2, Phil Hellmuth, Hold’em for Advanced Players, Theory of Poker, Low Limit Hold’em by Lee Jones, Championship Poker by TJ Cloutier, Small Stakes Hold’em, etc. I find HOH to be very good, and I like his style of play.

I have finished 1st overall in the last 2 tournaments (before the semi’s and final’s that is) at Westside Charlie’s (15 weeks of poker accumulating points, top 32 go to the semis 32 wild cards, top 12 from each location go to the finals). I’ve won a couple tournaments with the largest payday was $500 with a buy-in of $20. Generally I play low buy-in no limit hold’em tournaments $10 - $20 buy-ins with fields ranging from 10 – 40 players.

The live tournament poker I play is very loose and passive, and the blind structures make it tough to beat since it’s more like bingo. You start with 1000 chips and the blinds go up every 20 minutes, starting at 10/20, 20/40, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, 300/600,500/1000, 1000/2000. There is a Friday night game as well that’s a little better, with $10 buy-ins starting with 1500 chips, re-buys for the first hour for 1000 chips and an add-on after the buy-in period of $10 for an additional 1500 chips.

Now I’m back online again. In the last 3 months I’ve been playing micro no limit ($10 NL) online hold’em at Party (while still playing those $10 tourneys), starting with a $100 bankroll. I’ve mixed in a few $25 NL tables and $10 NL tournaments, but didn’t take advantage of any bonuses.

I don’t use Poker Tracker. I’m sure there are lots of holes in my game (mostly due to being too passive and not using position enough). When my bankroll gets big enough and I’m playing at stakes that take more strategy to beat that nut peddling, I’ll invest some time and money into such tools. Right now those tools cut into my poker bankroll ($55 USD for Poker Tracker is 15% of my roll).

While I’m out of a hand, I record what hands players show down on the river so I have a general idea of where there play is at. Recently I’m recording more information such as what positions players raise with different hands and what their calling with on the flop, turn river, etc. I use the PartyPoker feature for taking notes.

I’ve built my bankroll from an initial $100 buy-in without using any bonuses up to $360 by playing mostly weak/tight poker (i.e. set miner / nut peddler). For the first 2.5 months I was playing only 1 table at a time. Recently I purchased a 19 inch monitor so now I play up to 4 tables at a time. Occasionally I take stabs at the 25NL.

My short term goal is to move up to 25NL, for which I need a bankroll of 500-750 (20-30 buy-ins) to play optimally. My long term goal is win consistently enough to be able to cash out $500 - $1000 per month (or more).

I’d like to hear what the people who have gone through this process before have to say.

See you at the tables!

[uscheese]

This post was longer than HOH 1 and 2 I think

[biondino]

John, shouldn't you be in the gym preparing for Saturday's game against Wigan?

Good post - especially good since you're currently a micro player and it's only your 3rd post! I'm not sure you're ready for $200NL, whatever your roll, but you clearly know the basics and with $360 I'd move up permanently to $25, tbh - just don't tighten up!

The best players at $25NL are ABC players, good, conscientious near-beginners who do their homework but seldom try to many exotic moves. You seem to do an excellent job of observing your opponents - it should be straightforward for you to quickly spot the players who need watching. Then you can avoid the better players, or only play them with premium or top drawing hands.

Anyway, you've been a member 15 months - where have you been?

[Miffed22001]

almost anyone with half a knowledge of poker should be able to beat 100nl with an rb deal and monthly reload bonus of some sort.

[jterry]

I stopped playing poker altogether for 6 months because it wasn’t fun anymore (I cashed out BR from Party and stopped playing live small stakes tournaments). I started back up again in June playing the small stakes tournaments (a friendly game where we just hang out and drink some beers – well maybe a lot of beers ). Then poker started to slow down due to tournaments being cancelled and friends moving away.

I started online poker again in late September (I still play the odd home game and small stakes tourney) with a roll of $300 on Party Poker. I started playing full ring $25 NL, but switched to $10 NL to try and work on my game, instead of just playing weak-tight / nut peddling. I watched some videos by Bigspenda and Trainer_jyms, and I realized how much my games sucks (although it’s profitable).

I’ve built up my roll to $595 over 6800 hands since September 25th. I’ve bought Poker Tracker and I’m using the trial version of PokerAce HUD (probably going to buy it when the trial runs on in 2 weeks).

Poker Tracker Stats
VPIP 22.51, BB/100 15.08, PFR% 6.88
6834 hands, 110.62 hours

My PFR% is still too low, mainly because I was nut peddling and only raising with high pocket pairs. Now my PFR% is around 9-12% per session.

I normally play 1 table at a time, but I’ve been successful playing 4 tables at once. Time for poker is very limited these days. I just started a new job as a software developer in July, and the amount of overtime is cutting into poker time. When I have the time / energy I play 100 or 200 hands on a week night, probably around 400 or 600 hands on a Saturday or Sunday.

My goals are now to build my roll up to $800 before moving permanently to $25 NL. I’d like to have played 10K hands before making the switch though. After that I’ll play another 10K hands at $25 NL and reevaluate then, whether to move to $50 NL.

It’s going to be a while before I reach $50 NL with the amount of time I have available to playing poker. I’d have to start multi-tabling more to speed up the process, but I’m not concerned right now with moving up. I’m more concerned about improving my game than building a roll / moving up.

I haven’t posted any hand histories do date, so I’ll have to start doing that. The biggest areas of focus right now for me are the aggression factor and position.

[jterry]

Apparently I need to post at least 10 times in order to post images. So here's my first hand history (hopefully I did it right ). I cant post the card images either, so I had to cut out the links.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

BB ($5)
UTG ($7.03)
UTG+1 ($23.15)
MP1 ($49.07)
MP2 ($24.50)
MP3 =(Villain) ($26.42)
CO ($14.62)
Hero ($43.35)
SB ($22.02)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Jack of hearts, Ten of Hearts.
4 folds, MP3 =(Villain) raises to $0.7,
1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.75) Nine of diamonds, King of clubs, Five of clubs (2 players)
Villain bets $0.8, Hero calls $0.80.

Turn: ($3.35) Seven of clubs (2 players)
Villain bets $1.5, Hero raises to $5, Villain calls $3.50.

River: ($13.35) Duce of clubs (2 players)
Villain bets $5, Hero calls $43.35 (All-In), Villain calls $26.42 (All-In).

Final Pot: $76.19

Result:
Villain has Ad Qc (flush, king high).
Hero has Jh Th (high card, king).
Outcome: Villain wins $76.19. Hero wins $11.93.

I took this from Poker Tracker. This hand happened a few days after I started online again. Honestly I don't remember the hand, but it's the hand I lost the most money with! There was really no reason for me to get this deep with a nothing hand, even in position.

I was trying to buy this pot. The villain really had no business playing this had in this manner either, calling down with the 2nd nuts on the turn and river. But either way I played this hand all wrong, and that's what counts. I was double gutted on the turn, but there was a possible flush on board. Horrible play.

[jterry]

Here's another example of a hand that I misplayed.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed)

MP2 ($10.30)
CO ($24.65)
Button ($22.60)
SB ($24.01)
BB ($16.11)
Hero ($35.89)
UTG+1 ($8.86)
MP1 =(Villain) ($33.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ace of hearts, Queen of hearts.
Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP1 =(Villain) calls $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($3.35) Queen of clubs, Jack of clubs, Duce of spades (4 players)
Hero bets $1.75, Villain calls $1.75, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($6.85) Nine of hearts (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Villain calls $3.

River: ($12.85) Nine of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $11.5, Hero calls $11.50.

Final Pot: $35.85

Results:
Hero has Ah Qh (two pair, queens and nines).
Villain has Ks Ts (straight, king high).
Outcome: Villain wins $35.85.

I didn't raise enough preflop from early position. 4xbb +1 per limper is now my normal raise. I didn't bet enough on the flop, should have bet like 2.25 or 2.50 here. The turn card should have slowed me down since it put a possible straight on board, although there's still not many hands he could have that beat me (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 99, KT, QJ, J9, Q9). But he just called preflop and on the flop so I didn't put him on a strong hand, possibly a flush draw.

The river brought the 2nd 9 which is a scare card. What can I beat here? He clearly has a hand that can beat 2 pair, and I still paid him off.

[jterry]

Here's an example of being counter fitted.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

Button =(Villain) ($12.32)
SB ($27.61)
BB ($32.59)
UTG ($13.75)
Hero ($20.15)
MP1 ($5)
MP2 ($32.05)
MP3 ($17.63)
CO ($7.42)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Ten of clubs, Trey of hearts.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button =(Villain) raises to $0.5, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25.

Flop: ($1.85) Eight of diamonds, King of spades, Ten of diamonds (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Villain bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50, MP3 folds.

Turn: ($2.85) Trey of clubs (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Villain raises to $3, Hero calls $20.15 (All-In), Villain calls $12.32 (All-In).

River: ($33.49) Eight of spades (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $33.49

Results:
Hero has Tc 3h (two pair, tens and eights).
Villain has Ad As (two pair, aces and eights).
Outcome: Villain wins $33.49. Hero wins $5.83.

My mistakes in this hand were calling UTG+1 with air and just calling the flop with middle pair and no kicker, on a somewhat coordinated and possible 4 flush board.

I really got into trouble when I hit my 2 pair on the turn, and that card didn't complete a straight or flush. I'm only beat here by a higher 2 pair or a set. I get the money in, and luckily I was ahead. The river paired the board counter fitting my mid and bottom 2 pair. What do you do?

[jterry]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

Button ($4.34)
SB ($4.45)
BB ($11.84)
UTG ($5.83)
UTG+1 ($13.97)
MP1 =(Villain) ($10)
MP2 ($25.03)
Hero ($28.20)
CO ($43.63)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Seven of diamonds, Seven of clubs.
2 folds, MP1 =(Villain) raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4.25) Nine of clubs, Eight of spades, Six of spades (4 players)
SB checks, Villain bets $3.5, Hero raises to $8, CO folds, SB folds, Villain calls $10 (All-In), Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($22.25) Queen of spades (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($22.25) Nine of hearts (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $22.25

Results:
Villain has 8h 8c (full house, eights full of nines).
Hero has 7d 7c (two pair, nines and sevens).
Outcome: Villain wins $22.25. Hero wins $4.50.

I've played 52 hands against the villain and his VPIP was 55.88 and PFR% of 13.46%. His raise didn't necessarily indicate strength, since he was playing way too many hands. I just called his raise pf because I'm in early position. A better play here might have been to raise to isolate the villain.

I have 3rd pair and an up and down straight draw. Against this guy I think my hand is good, so I raise, effectively putting the villain all in. He insta calls with his set and he ends up filling up on the river.

The other problem with this hand is the villain was relatively short stacked, and I didn't have much in the way of implied odds if I won. I was drawing to a straight so I had 8 outs twice against what I thought was a steal attempt.

Not reraising preflop cost me $10. If I had reraised, I would have had a better idea where I was to in the hand, and possibly could have saved some bets.

[jterry]

Here's a prime example of why you want to avoid the short stacks without the nuts.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

MP1 ($19.04)
MP2 ($35.21)
MP3 ($29.65)
CO ($25)
Button =(Villain) ($6.90)
SB ($19.55)
BB ($10.28)
UTG ($31.29)
Hero ($36.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Nine of spades, Nine of diamonds.
Hero raises to $1, 4 folds, Button =(Villain) calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) Four of clubs, Duce of clubs, Six of spades (3 players)
Hero bets $2, Villain calls $6.90 (All-In), Hero calls $3.90.

Turn: ($14.15) King of clubs (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($14.15) Trey of clubs (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $15.15

Results:
UTG doesn't show.
Hero has 9s 9d (one pair, nines).
Villain has 3h 3s (three of a kind, threes).
Outcome: Villain wins $14.15. Hero wins $1.

I had this guy smoked until the 6 outer hit on the river (2 outs for a set, 4 outs for the gut shot straight draw).

Do I really want to be playing out of position against a short stack here?

[jterry]

Here's an example of weak poker

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP3 ($4.50)
Hero ($28.61)
Button ($15.65)
SB ($43.61)
BB ($25.30)
UTG ($29.04)
UTG+1 ($19.89)
MP1 ($6.87)
MP2 =(Villain) ($7.72)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
3 folds, MP2 =(Villain)calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, Button raises to $0.5, 1 fold, BB calls $0.25, MP2 =(Villain) calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2.10) , , (4 players)
BB checks, Villain bets $1, Hero calls $1, Button folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($4.10) (2 players)
Villain bets $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($8.10) (2 players)
Villain bets $1, Hero calls $1.

Final Pot: $10.10

Results:
Villain has 9c Qd (straight, king high).
Hero has Jc Ks (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Villain wins $10.10.

The main problem with this hand is not raising, on either street. Raising preflop in position may have forced the Q9 hand to fold and the button may have just called. The second mistake is not raising on the flop to find out where I stand. Just calling here does not give me any information about the hand.

This is an example of a hand played very badly. Hopefully I've corrected this glaring error.

[jterry]

Here's my stats from Poker Tracker after 6,834 hands.



Notice the high rake and bad beat jackpot contribution? I started playing $25 NL FR on the bad beat jackpot tables. HUGE MISTAKE! That's one leak in my game right there that can save me some coin.

[jterry]

Here's my position stats from Poker Tracker after 6,834 hands.



I'm not doing that well out of the big blind, on the button or in the first 3 seats after the blinds.

However I am playing more hands around back that up front, which is a plus.

[jterry]

Here's my bankroll graph after 6,834 hands.

[jterry]

Here are 2 hand histories after a loss during my previous session @ $25 NL FR. I had sat down at the table to the left of two maniacs and I had been at the table for less than 10 hands when the following hands took place.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP2 =(Villain) ($61.62)
MP3 ($29.85)
Hero ($24.40)
Button ($74.56)
SB ($1.33)
BB ($27.62)
UTG ($6.79)
UTG+1 ($4.25)
UTG+2 ($25)
MP1 ($22.03)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, MP2 =(Villain) calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.37) , , (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Villain checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($1.37) (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Villain bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB folds, BB calls $0.25, UTG folds.

River: ($2.12) (3 players)
BB checks, Villain bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, Villain raises to $4.75, Hero calls $24.40 (All-In), Villain calls $19.15.

Final Pot: $49.92

Results :
Villain has 6c Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has 4c 4s (full house, fours full of kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $49.92. Villain wins $3.50.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG+1 ($37.92)
UTG+2 =(Villain) ($29.85)
Hero ($46.81)
MP2 ($74.56)
MP3 ($1.08)
CO ($27.02)
Button ($6.19)
SB ($4)
BB ($25)
UTG ($22.03)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.5, UTG+2 =(Villain) raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $5, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls $4.50, UTG+2 =(Villain) calls $3.75.

Flop: ($15.35) , , (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Villain checks, Hero calls $46.81 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, Villain calls $29.85 (All-In).

Turn: ($75.05) (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($75.05) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $75.05

Results:
Villain has Ks Ac (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ad As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $92.01.

These 2 hands happened pretty much back to back. The 2 villains where directly to my right, and I had seen them play every hand and take down big pots with marginal hands.

The first hand with pocket 4's I just wanted to see a cheap flop, and they obliged. I flopped a boat, and I was in position so I slowplayed the crap out of it. Normally I would raise and reraise with this type of hand, but against a maniac I wanted to trap him. I float 2 streets and bet big on the river. My play worked and I doubled up.

A couple hands later I'm dealt a monster, aces. I know these two maniacs will try and pick me off so I raise it to $5. At the time I thought this was a bit obvious what I had, but they both called me anyway. The flop was king high, which I didn't really like. I get 2 calls preflop, which normally indicated big hands like kings or queens, and someone with kings would have stacked me here, especially one of these 2 guys. I went all in on this flop because these 2 guys just called my raise then checked it to me. I figured if they had anything they would have tried to buy the pot or move in with the nuts right away. So I moved all in like I was trying to buy the pot with a bluff, and I got a call by an AK. Go figure!

[jterry]

Getting closer to my first 10K hands in PokerTracker. I've run about even over the last 2500 hands. I've been playing around with PokerEV, and it looks pretty cool.