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The most important thing I have learned so far...

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  1. #1
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    Default The most important thing I have learned so far...

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  2. #2
    Good Advice but isnt that common sense?
  3. #3
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Default Re: The most important thing I have learned so far...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripptyde
    Nobody wins this game camping out waiting on monsters
    You obviously haven't played at the low limits on Party Poker. Enough players will call your ass down on pocket 3s, or any #$*& draw and slow play hands as weak as 2 pair to make bluffing a tricky propsition. Heck, I've been called down by Ace-Little hitting an Ace after pre-flop raising 6x BB with a medium pair then betting out pot. Sharks will pick up on your aggressive habbits and trap your ass or re-steal on not much. Then consider that 4 person multi-pot is probably a mixture of idiots that will call on anything and multi-table rocks looking to trap the idiots. What's a player to do? Check + fold? No wonder the multi-tables are cleaning up.

    How much are you betting when bluffing? Pot? On that pot bet you need to make a better hand or take it down over 50% to be profitable. Or if you're close to even, you can call it advertising.

    You've come clean that you're on a downward slope in terms of cash (I admire honesty about that, it's easier to think you're god's gift to poker.) How are you doing in pure cash games? I don't mean to be negative, but this is a skill I've put a lot of time and burned a lot of chips trying to master with limited success. It's really easy to feed the fish in aggressive mode and my bankroll has paid dearly for some of my experiments.

    It was this realization combined with a rough streak that sent me over to limit for a while...
  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripptyde
    I get the impression you are implying that I am an unwise , reckless player....perhaps. But I assure you that my style has served me well. My losses are because I elected to play high dollar tourneys with hundreds of players....not because I was playing poorly against a handful of players.
    I'm digging into how successful you are and why and how I can absorb some of it into my game. Like I said I've tried to get my A up at cash games and it usually turns out bad unless I'm really selective. Everyone is good at some stuff and poor at others. Style is huge as the optimal strategy against one player can be suicide against another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripptyde
    I understand your loyalty to 'the odds'...but in my humble opinion...your ability to play the player and his stack is far more important than understanding how many outs you have pre flop against a certain hand. It all comes down to the player and how big his balls are. I forced a KK to fold tonight with 7-10 suited with A/2/7 on thr flop...why ? because I played his fear of the Ace.

    I dont claim to be Johnny Chan but I am trying to see ALL aspects of the game here...not just memorize odds charts.
    How did you know he had KK and not AK? How much did you call pre-flop and why even bother with T7s? How do you pick your targets? What flops are great to stab at and which ones to you avoid like the plague? How do you steal a multi-pot? What do you do when the blinds are small relative to stacks? etc....

    Also, the odds aren't irrelevent to what you're doing. You're playing the odds they have something, their own hand against them. I have a few ideas on how to crunch those numbers. My table 'o domination was a first stab there.
  6. #6
    Ripptyde, I tend to agree with you. I stay away from ring games and play strictly tournaments. I also fund my big tournaments with my SNG winnings. Fortunately I have some success on the last month or so. I have made 5 final tables with a best of second place.

    It seems to me every-time I try to play by the book, I get creamed. When I play "by the seat of the pants" I do well. You need to come up with your own style, and try to trick people. The two cards you are holding are second to how you bet and your position. If see a flop thats no pretty, and everybody seems to be checking. like Riptyde said, throw out a feeler bet and see what happens. You will be surprised how many people fold. On the other side, if I feel someone else threw out a feeler bet I might raise and watch him fold.


    I just started a tournament, I have to go.
    Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants won't help.
    -- Calvin and Hobbes
  7. #7
    I think both Fnord and Ripptyde are correct it is just a matter of timing luck and style, and the games you are playing. No one will win big, especially in multi-tables and SNG's. Playing strictly by the book. You always make it to the final 5 or so but usually end up in the 3rd or 4th spot in a SNG, using ideas and style that Ripptyde and Strangebird use you have the ablility to win or take second more often.
    On the other hand playing $25 NL playing by the book will produce a constant variety of wins and small losses.
    This conversation reminds me of Rounders. Knish plays a tight style that wins constantly, at the same time Matt Damon is playing more of the other guys cards than his own and has a much more roller coaster of wins and losses. It is matter of what you are willing to deal with. I imagine that Ripptyde would be more of a specalative investor as well, and Fnord wants constant returns. Just an idea? What do you think?
    Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
  8. #8
    Well, there's no doubt that both Fnord and Ripp know a lot about NL holdem. But they are really playing two completely different games and that's why they have two completely different strategies.

    I hear what Ripptyde is saying, and his style of play is really tournament play - at which he's had good success.

    Fnord's style of play, similar to my own, is the PartyPoker cash game style of play - at which we've had good success.

    We are really talking apples to oranges - tournament play is much different than the day in, day out ring game. It's really amazing how different they are. On a ring game, you can just chill and wait - playing solid hands, calculating odds, etc. You do not need to get fancy to beat the low stakes game. In a tourney, you must make moves without the cards, and play the player.

    So based on our playing style and strategy, did we choose the best fitting game, or did our choice of game develop the style and strategy?
  9. #9
    I believe that just reading the numerous posts on the site by both Fnord and Ripptyde. They picked the right game for their style and really more for their personality. It seems as though Fnord is an analitical genius who takes advantage of the odds when they are in his favor. Ripptyde exceeds by playing the player and the game. He has a good read on when to throwout the bluffs and when to tighten up. Both are very good at what they do. I beieve their personality choose the game that they enjoy the most. Of course I could be way off on these "tells" and lose all of my money to both!
    Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
  10. #10
    You guys are such peace-makers. c'mon lets egg 'em on for the FTR tourney. I wanna see sparks fly (plus it couldn't hurt the rest of us if we get 'em both knocked out early, could it?

    I can see it now, rip all-in on 72o on a bluff, FNORD calling as an 80% favorite, and me hitting the call button by mistake with 86s, making my flush and cruising to FTR glory!

    Seriously, a little balance can't hurt. We've all stolen pots, but I don't think anybody really believes you can make a career out of it. Takes good solid play most of the time, a feeling for weakness in your opponent, and the guts to exploit it without fear. I've seen that in rip's (and fnord's) posts, and I've gotten nasty end of it heads up against Fnord. That balance part of the game is the most interesting part for me and I'm investing (I use the term loosely) in a lot of lessons right now trying to figure out how to get better at it.
    "Limit poker is a science, but no-limit is an art..."
  11. #11
    Love that Heatman! Very funny! Would I qualify for the tournament? I would love to donate my money! I realize I am a relative newbie, here so no problem if it is not open. Thanks! Great Site!
    Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by heatman
    You guys are such peace-makers. c'mon lets egg 'em on for the FTR tourney. I wanna see sparks fly (plus it couldn't hurt the rest of us if we get 'em both knocked out early, could it?
    not to start anything, but i heard fnord say he was going kick rippy's ass in the FTR tourney. i think i also heard rippy say that he was going to kick fnord's punk ass in the tourney as well.

    remember, you didn't hear it from me.
  13. #13
    Xianti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scgolfer
    Would I qualify for the tournament?
    You just qualified, scgolfer.

    Welcome to the Inner Circle:
    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=554
  14. #14
    Hey all.

    Just wanted to say I appreciate all the honest information. It's nice to see examples of good play, and also bad play. I like to see everyone's opinions on the various hands that get posted.

    When I caught word of an FTR tourney I realized I was missing out by not being able to see the private posts. So hopefully this post will be the first of many.

    Is there a secret handshake I'm missing out on too!?
  15. #15
    Xianti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobupoker
    When I caught word of an FTR tourney I realized I was missing out by not being able to see the private posts. So hopefully this post will be the first of many.

    Is there a secret handshake I'm missing out on too!?
    Greetings, jobupoker!

    Just keep participating in our discussions and contributing however you can and perhaps you can join us in the next FTR Showdown.


    As for the secret handshake, remember that Vulcan handshake that Spock shares with Kirk through the glass of the engineering deck as he slowly dies from radiation in the warp core room in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan? Well... that's not it.

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