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ideal situation hu gone wrong - help me, I'm ashamed

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  1. #1

    Default ideal situation hu gone wrong - help me, I'm ashamed

    Hi there,

    I'm new to the SNG games. Started in February this year playing poker, cashgames.
    Recently I made the transition to the SNG and now I play 1.20 dollar SNG's on Full Tilt.
    I get "in the money" almost 50% of the time. Of those, I win about 1 in 3.
    I need help on my heads-up game! This, I feel I never should have lost!!!
    This bighand24 fella was a solid player but apt to make mistakes considering positional play. When the game got shorthanded, he raised all his aces preflop.
    Also, in the later stage I saw him go all in twice with ace and mediocre kicker.

    The problem is: at a certain point I was 11.000 up on him, and I still lost! He started shoving practically all his hands all in... and I got just rotten hands. Should I have called him there with just any two cards? In retrospect I think yes, but at the table... You know, when you call this with junk (J4o, K2o, Q9o,.....) you´ll let him double up too easy.... Twice and all is level again and I´ll be kicking and screaming that I let him back in the match. But now I folded so much he got back in too.

    I really don´t know what to do there...

    Ok, the last hand was stupid, I tried to do something fancy and represent the 8...
    But by then I was sick of it.

    Ok, by this time we had played 50 hands or so hu.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817802496: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (160213489), Table 1 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:46:45 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (6,400)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (7,100)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 100
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 200
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [4c Ac]
    bighand24 calls 100
    mentalrudy raises to 1,200
    bighand24 raises to 7,100, and is all in
    mentalrudy calls 5,200, and is all in
    bighand24 shows [9s Qd]
    mentalrudy shows [4c Ac]
    Uncalled bet of 700 returned to bighand24
    *** FLOP *** [Ah Kc 2d]
    *** TURN *** [Ah Kc 2d] [7d]
    *** RIVER *** [Ah Kc 2d 7d] [Ad]
    bighand24 shows a pair of Aces
    mentalrudy shows three of a kind, Aces
    mentalrudy wins the pot (12,800) with three of a kind, Aces

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817812644
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,800)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (700)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 100
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 200
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [6d 6s]
    mentalrudy raises to 600
    bighand24 raises to 700, and is all in
    mentalrudy calls 100
    bighand24 shows [Ad Ah]
    mentalrudy shows [6d 6s]
    *** FLOP *** [9d Js Qc]
    *** TURN *** [9d Js Qc] [Ts]
    *** RIVER *** [9d Js Qc Ts] [5h]
    bighand24 shows a pair of Aces
    mentalrudy shows a pair of Sixes
    bighand24 wins the pot (1,400) with a pair of Aces

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817822031
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,100)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,400)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [4s Kc] I should have called this?
    bighand24 raises to 1,400, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 1,160 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)


    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817826382
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,860)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,640)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Jh Ks]
    mentalrudy raises to 2,400
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 2,160 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817830714
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,100)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,400)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Ac 4d]
    bighand24 raises to 1,400, and is all in
    mentalrudy calls 1,160
    bighand24 shows [Ad 4s]
    mentalrudy shows [Ac 4d]
    *** FLOP *** [2h Kh 2c]
    *** TURN *** [2h Kh 2c] [Tc]
    *** RIVER *** [2h Kh 2c Tc] [Js]
    bighand24 shows a pair of Twos
    mentalrudy shows a pair of Twos
    mentalrudy ties for the pot (1,400) with a pair of Twos
    bighand24 ties for the pot (1,400) with a pair of Twos

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817837105
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,100)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,400)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [9s Jh]
    mentalrudy calls 120
    bighand24 checks
    *** FLOP *** [Qc Kd 9h]
    bighand24 checks
    mentalrudy bets 240
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 240 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817843651
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,340)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,160)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Kh 2c] I can call this, but I didn't feel like it. Mistake?
    bighand24 raises to 1,160, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 920 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817846682
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,100)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,400)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [4d Jh]
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 120 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (240)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817848608
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,980)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,520)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [2h 7s]
    bighand24 raises to 1,520, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 1,280 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817851494
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,740)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,760)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Qc 9h]
    mentalrudy calls 120
    bighand24 raises to 1,760, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 1,520 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817857374
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,500)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (2,000)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Kh 2c]
    bighand24 raises to 2,000, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 1,760 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)


    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817862136: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (160213489), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:49:26 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,260)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (2,240)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [9d 3c]
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 120 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (240)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817864005
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (11,140)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (2,360)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [2s 9d]
    bighand24 raises to 2,360, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 2,120 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817867069: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (160213489), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:49:40 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (10,900)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (2,600)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Qh 9c]
    mentalrudy raises to 960
    bighand24 raises to 2,600, and is all in now was getting tired of it and called
    mentalrudy calls 1,640
    bighand24 shows [Ah As]
    mentalrudy shows [Qh 9c]
    *** FLOP *** [Ac 2s Qc]
    *** TURN *** [Ac 2s Qc] [9d]
    *** RIVER *** [Ac 2s Qc 9d] [3s]
    bighand24 shows three of a kind, Aces
    mentalrudy shows two pair, Queens and Nines
    bighand24 wins the pot (5,200) with three of a kind, Aces
    wrong timing!!!

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817875969: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (160213489), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:50:06 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (8,300)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (5,200)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Ah Qs]
    bighand24 calls 120
    mentalrudy raises to 720
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 480 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817881439
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (8,540)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (4,960)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Td Qd]
    mentalrudy raises to 720
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 480 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817885294
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (8,780)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (4,720)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Kc 3h]
    bighand24 raises to 4,720, and is all in
    mentalrudy calls 4,480 i thought he can't have an ace every time
    bighand24 shows [Jh Qh]
    mentalrudy shows [Kc 3h]
    *** FLOP *** [Qs Jd 7h]
    *** TURN *** [Qs Jd 7h] [6s]
    *** RIVER *** [Qs Jd 7h 6s] [7c]
    bighand24 shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
    mentalrudy shows a pair of Sevens
    bighand24 wins the pot (9,440) with two pair, Queens and Jacks

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817892254: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (160213489), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:50:49 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (4,060)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (9,440)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [5d Tc]
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 120 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (240)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817894412
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (3,940)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (9,560)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Kc Jh]
    bighand24 calls 120
    mentalrudy raises to 3,940, and is all in
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 3,700 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817898272
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (4,180)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (9,320)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [6s 8c]
    mentalrudy calls 120
    bighand24 checks
    *** FLOP *** [Tc 5s 8d]
    bighand24 checks
    mentalrudy bets 3,940, and is all in dangerous play, I know, but I was pissed I let him back in
    bighand24 folds
    Uncalled bet of 3,940 returned to mentalrudy
    mentalrudy mucks
    mentalrudy wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817905487
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (4,420)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (9,080)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Js Th]
    bighand24 calls 120
    mentalrudy checks
    *** FLOP *** [5s 4d 6d]
    mentalrudy checks
    bighand24 checks
    *** TURN *** [5s 4d 6d] [7s]
    mentalrudy bets 480
    bighand24 calls 480
    *** RIVER *** [5s 4d 6d 7s] [3h]
    mentalrudy bets 3,700, and is all in
    bighand24 calls 3,700
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    mentalrudy shows [Js Th] a straight, Seven high
    bighand24 shows [Td 8h] a straight, Eight high
    bighand24 wins the pot (8,840) with a straight, Eight high


    Please, point out my mistakes because I am very ashamed about this!
  2. #2
    You got incredibly unlucky but thats besides the point. You need to look up basic short stack strategy, because a lot of these hands you are folding when you absolutely shouldn't.

    I'd go to the SNG forum and look at some strategy there. If you want to get really serious about these, you should absolutely buy sit and go wizard.
    Check out the new blog!!!
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan View Post
    You got incredibly unlucky but thats besides the point. You need to look up basic short stack strategy, because a lot of these hands you are folding when you absolutely shouldn't.

    I'd go to the SNG forum and look at some strategy there. If you want to get really serious about these, you should absolutely buy sit and go wizard.
    If you want to make it simple, when he had like 1k chips and is shoving.. and blinds are 240, you can almost justify calling 23o... at him having sub 5 bb M=3ish, he's going to shove to steal, which is obvious.. if he doubles, it's not as big of a deal as having no chance of knocking him out.. I call with most hands here when he shoves..
    These hands in particular:

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817843651
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,340)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,160)
    bighand24 posts the small blind of 120
    mentalrudy posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [Kh 2c] I can call this, but I didn't feel like it. Mistake?
    bighand24 raises to 1,160, and is all in
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 920 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (480)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20817846682
    Seat 2: mentalrudy (12,100)
    Seat 5: bighand24 (1,400)
    mentalrudy posts the small blind of 120
    bighand24 posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mentalrudy [4d Jh]
    mentalrudy folds
    Uncalled bet of 120 returned to bighand24
    bighand24 mucks
    bighand24 wins the pot (240)

    First one: call.. doubtful you are in bad.. he's obviously not being selective (shoved the last ~4 times) this is a 920 chip call into an already 1400 pot, so 920/2320 = 39.7% odds needed to be even eV on the call... Assuming he doesn't play only hands with aces ( a good assumption given he's shoved 4x in a row ) you definitely have these odds vs. his range. I'm going to make the assumption he shoves any 2 cards here. likely.

    Board:
    Dead:
    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 50.509% 48.42% 02.09% 1015702916 43754133.50 { Kh2c }
    Hand 1: 49.491% 47.41% 02.09% 994361217 43754133.50 { random }

    You have plenty of EV to call.

    Lets assume you made the fold on this hand, move on to the next hand::
    Why let him pressure you and put no pressure on him.. shove into him! Lets say he calls 30% of hands... that other 70% is still +240 chips for you and kills his stack again. I think it would be outrageous for him to call 50% here, but even so:

    70%*(+240 chips) = +168 chips
    the other 50%, you're not super far behind! Trying to find a range that works, i used pokerstove to select the top 50% of hands..

    Board:
    Dead:
    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 32.182% 31.24% 00.94% 200611039 6031585.50 { Jh4d }
    Hand 1: 67.818% 66.88% 00.94% 429439790 6031585.50 { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }


    so 32.182%*30%(+1400 chips) = +135 chips
    and 67.818%*30%(-1400 chips) = -285 chips

    Overall:: 168+135-285 = +18 chips
    AND if you folded you would have -120 EV
    So overall, my estimated EV of shoving versus folding here is +138 chips..
    Obviously this is just an estimate, so we'll round to +100 chips and say that I still think shoving here is better than folding for that reason. also, the 32.182%*30% means that 9.7% of the time you win the tourney on that hand.

    Maybe J4o isn't the best way for me to demonstrate this, as it is a pretty meh hand, I might complete and see if he shoves to us calling too, to gauge later hands if they come, but he is getting too many free chips. I'm not worried about letting a crippled man stand back up, but even marginal hands here are good for +EV; and if he misvalues his top 30%, your EV only goes up.

    Anyways.. I hope this explanation helps some.
  4. #4
    You seem super tight

    Hand #1 - I think minraising pre is better than l/rr, you're 30bb deep and A4 plays better in raised pots than in limped
    Hand #2 - bad beat
    Hand #3 - call
    Hand #6 - open shove
    Hand #7 - call
    Hand #10 - open shove
    Hand #11 - call
    Hand #14 - open shove
    Hand #16 - minraise, don't raise 3bb
    Hand #17 - fold
    Hand #19 - raise 3x
    Hand #20 - what the hell r u doing?! just bet 1-2bb on the flop
    Hand #21 - c/f turn. not sure about river but I don't think you'll get enough folds or few enough eights to make this profitable
  5. #5
    You do seem like a nit. There were a lot of hands were I wouldn't have folded. I guess it was a combination of bad play and bad luck. Sorry bra. Good luck on the future.

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