Hero is pissed

villain is emmoseeu, a competent 22/17 tag


POKERSTARS GAME #10027638044: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/05/21 - 05:22:55 (ET)
Table 'Seraphina' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($1033.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Emmoyouesee ($603 in chips)
Seat 3: Luckygirl23 ($150.30 in chips)
Seat 4: molswi47 ($1238 in chips)
Seat 5: z8eldred ($847.30 in chips)
Seat 6: taso1 ($346 in chips)
Emmoyouesee: posts small blind $3
Luckygirl23: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [Ac Kc]
molswi47: folds
z8eldred: raises $6 to $12
taso1: folds
Sauce123: raises $30 to $42
Emmoyouesee: calls $39
Luckygirl23: folds
z8eldred: folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7d 7h]
Emmoyouesee: checks
Sauce123: bets $72
Emmoyouesee: calls $72
*** TURN *** [7c 7d 7h] [Th]
Emmoyouesee: checks
Sauce123: checks
*** RIVER *** [7c 7d 7h Th] [As]
Emmoyouesee: bets $489 and is all-in
Sauce123 said, "uuuughgghghghgh"
Sauce123 said, "puuuuke"
Emmoyouesee said, "ship it"
Sauce123 said, "u have a 7"
Sauce123 said, "u have to"

i think hh acurately describes my thoughs

Villain is 22/17ish a standard, competent, I would assume winning player at 3/6, one of those tags im not overjoyed at seeing sit down, but again im not scared of either. not particularly tricky, but definitely is capable of any float, bluff etc that a 2p2er these days would make, but I would assign a lower bluff % to his range in general as opposed to most tags.

So my reasoning on the hand goes about like this:

PF- will he call with a suited connector here? this is a central question to the hand def as its btw 5-10% of stack and initial raiser isnt over aggro PF and is also spewy postflop. Im still not sure about this, but I dont think he will often just cause hes OOP and tho unlikely initial raiser could show up with a hand (though ive noticed he min raises weak holdings pre in general and raises bigger with stronger holdings but i dont know if villain has picked up on this) Ugh....

Flop- cbet call we get it wide range. will he float an ace? prolly not often. will he show up with ATs, TT. maybe

river- i donno exactly how to interpret his shove. My initial reaction was as "JACKPOT NOW I GET TO STACK HIM OMG ALL IN" but it seems like a CR line is always so superior here as I will obviously try to rep the ace against a competent but unimaginative tag a non-zero % of the time. Ugh. Might post some more thoughts later, but what do we do??

haha wrote this on 2p2, pasting it in here also.

10-10 obv.

Ooooooooooh.

From his point of view the pot is $228 and hes pushing $489. 1:2 he needs you to fold 2/3 of the time. How often do you check behind this turn with AA? Is AA. How about QQ? Im sure alot more than 1/3 of your preflop reraise, flop cbet, turn check behind range has an A in and im sure he doesnt expect you to fold an A so hmmmm.

Id never even think of folding this at the time but it does look an awful lot like hes trying to stack you.

Neither of us ever has AA here ever

The guy cold-called your re-raise pre-flop from the SB - are you sure he never has AA?

Originally Posted by biondino

The guy cold-called your re-raise pre-flop from the SB - are you sure he never has AA?

Yes for a few reasons:

1. I've shown strength/may also be on an isolation play/original raiser is likely to call show he will 4bet here preflop 90%+ of the time with AA.

2. On postflop with AA he will almost always C/R flop or lead turn as there are fewer combos of AK out there and he wont want scare cards to fall.

therefore he has AA such a tiny percent of the time as to make it ridiculous to talk about.

What did you think villain put you on? What was your preflop 3-betting range? How much of that range contained an A? Therefor, wouldn't a bluff from villain be a good play against you range as you would fold any non A hand?

I don't get why you think he has a 7, this is TT a lot and i fold IMO.

With the information you put out, i'd say good fold, good job.


However, something is bothering me about this hand. Lets say villain has seen you make folds like this... if that's true this makes it more likely this is a bluff because he knows you can't call with anything but a 7, TT, or AA, all of which are very unlikely for you to have. This makes this a very easy bluffing spot.

Secondly the typing of, "ship it" bothers me. You type revealing that you have an A, and he types something of strength. Why the hell is he doing that?This is especially strange if he's a competent TAGG, probably knows that typing is a sign of strength, and sees that you're typing means that you are probably gonna make a crying call (at least, that's what it may seem like to him).

It's just something to think about. Tell me what you think bud.

i didnt really care about the typing

typing usually means call me. just the other day, i 3bet all in preflop with KK. they waited a bit, and then i typed "you're beat." after that they insta called with AK. thank God no ace came.

Originally Posted by sauce123

i didnt really care about the typing

maybe you should...

but i'll trust you more than myself when it comes to typing, verbal, or physical tells becuase i'm not that good at them and you are God with them.

If villain is rarely bluffing here or this wouldn't be a question. I'm sure Sauce would've told us if this guy would make this type of bluff.
And given sauce's play (in general) i'd say villain can't expect sauce to fold.

why bet flop, take your card for 7 outs usually

Originally Posted by gabe

why bet flop, take your card for 7 outs usually

ur completely right and thats the most glaringly obvious mistake here. at the time i thought villain might be calling an sc or broadways banking on the initial raiser coming also, which is probably a flawed thought.

How often are you better than a split? Not often, I'd guess. Your hand is just about face up, so he's got to expect a call. Time to pick a level, I guess...

Fold. I don't think this is ever a bluff, and you split it at best. As long as you think he is competent, it doesn't even matter what he has really, because he'll pwn you sometime with TT, 7, or AA and the pot is too small for you to hope for a split.

i call and split

quads don t happen ever unless we are 5000 bb's deep and have AA here

I'd call here and get a split.

I think he puts you on some kind of pocket pairs, and hits his ace on the river.

I feel like everyone on this thread is staring at the river action and not taking into account what his hand range is on previous streets- we cbet this flop probably mistakenly, and 3bet preflop and the villain is a competent tag...

like heres an exercise- what does everyone think his range is when he checks the turn?

Originally Posted by sauce123

like heres an exercise- what does everyone think his range is when he checks the turn?

Lots of mid-strength hands that don't wanna get stack-a-donked

What does a competant tag cold call PF OOP with?? Not a whole hell of alot. Let's say pair + AK. Your chat implies you think he would do this with 67/78s. This seems even less likely than AA/KK

He can't have a low pair (say 22-99) because he would not check/call flop since you mostly have over cards. So now we have him on TT/JJ/AK with some trivial chance of AA/KK/quads/on some deranged multi street bluff with Q9

His turn action makes so little sense, that either 1) he has TT 2) We are way off somewhere in our read/it's a misclick.

Whatever opp has or had I like the play and the only hand I could put him on would be TT or AQ.

Why AQ not AK?

Originally Posted by sauce123

like heres an exercise- what does everyone think his range is when he checks the turn?

Actually how the fuck can he have a 7 here? It's impossible. On the turn his range is TT+, AK.

I don't get why AA is impossible, you havnt shown much strength you just isolated then cbet. This is especially more likely if he sees you as being aggressive.

Bottom line he has TT in this hand I think. AK is my second choice but far behind.

i think aa is a possibility although i think it would c/r flop because its such a vulnerable flop for pps.
also aa wouldnt push river because as said previously villain knows sauce will try to rep this ace, and if he has 3 of them he would rather have him try to rep it than count on him havin the case ace.