couple hands against same villain - 5/10

-Villain in these hands is Lang_56 from crypto
-he generally runs around 22.6/15/2 and even though I've played a lot of hands with him I don't have a good feel for his game yet
-no crazy dynamic in today's session. Had one hand where I had set over set against him but the turn flush card slowed the action, and that's prob one of the only hands he's seen of mine today

Hand 1:
-what's the best play on the turn (assuming I at least call)
-if I call, can I really fold the river if he bets? (river bet will be about $245 into 600)

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5 pounds
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $824.65
Button: $111.69
SB: $541
BB: $1730.20

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $15, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: ($50, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $32, Button folds, SB raises to $100, Hero calls.

Turn: ($250, 2 players)
SB bets $180, Hero ?





Hand 2:
-this is the first time he's flat called my 3-bet OOP

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $532
CO: $1062.28
Hero: $1874
SB: $2891
BB: $925

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG folds, CO raises to $30, Hero raises to $90, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: ($195, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($195, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $130, CO raises to $355, Hero?

Are these that standard!?

hand 1 - You can ask Alexos, I get into these dumbass spots really often. We always seem to disagree on the best line, cause I often jam and he often advocates calling and re-eval river (even though the river always leave some half pot bet). So I'm wondering what the consensus is here.

hand 2 - Is this just a levelling war? He knows I have at best AK/AQ, and he probably has more AJ, AT, KQ type of hands than I do. Wondering how bad a straight up fold on turn is?

Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Are these that standard!?

hand 1 - You can ask Alexos, I get into these dumbass spots really often. We always seem to disagree on the best line, cause I often jam and he often advocates calling and re-eval river (even though the river always leave some half pot bet). So I'm wondering what the consensus is here.

nooo i often do say to call and call all rivers in places where villain still has room to bluff... When villain only has 1/3 pot on river i agree with u he'll prolly never bluff

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

Yah I wasn't entirely sure on his range. The only draw was really QT, so I figured his range was predominantly hands like sets, Jx or AJ or Ax (bluff raised flop) that I was getting direct outs with a call on the turn.

But raise may be better if he ever folds a better Jx hand on the turn.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.

Yah, I suppose the turn bet was for balance against the times I don't have an ace in this spot.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

Yah I wasn't entirely sure on his range. The only draw was really QT, so I figured his range was predominantly hands like sets, Jx or AJ or Ax (bluff raised flop) that I was getting direct outs with a call on the turn.

But raise may be better if he ever folds a better Jx hand on the turn.

He never folds a better Jx hand on the turn and you can't really fold the river either.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.

Yah, I suppose the turn bet was for balance against the times I don't have an ace in this spot.

I don't think you need to balance here, because you usually cbet if your hand is weaker than ace high, so you shouldn't be in this spot with Q high very often. If you have a weak pair, then again you don't need to bet the turn since you have some showdown value.

If you would have cbet, then a lot of your range still contains air and you need to balance by betting the turn and probably stacking off with AQ here.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

not so sure how often he has a worse draw but the fact that he doesnt bluff the river much makes calling turn and folding river unimproved seemed pretty good

Originally Posted by gabe

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

not so sure how often he has a worse draw but the fact that he doesnt bluff the river much makes calling turn and folding river unimproved seemed pretty good

I think putting over half your stack in and then folding, especially when villain's range is polarized, you have a very good bluffcatcher and you only need to be good 22% of the time, requires totally sick hand reading skills. If you say you can do that profitably, then I believe you, but I wouldn't do it myself, nor would I recommend trying it.

If we assume that we are never folding the river, then shoving turn is clearly better than calling, amirite? I'mrite.

hand 1: depends a lot on villain and your image, but folding flop has merit. its probably actually best since you beat only a bluff, and he's probably not bluffing too much since flop was multiway. could be a spur of the moment bluff tho when he sees BTN fold.

hand 2: just flat pf. way more value in that.

2) This is a guy that calls 3bets wayy too much, and he'll often have AJ/AT/KQ here so I'll check turn a lot.