1/2 NL Any way out of this hand?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 28.2/18.6/3.7

Hand Converted by Ace Poker Drills Poker Training Software

NL Holdem $2(BB)
SB ($257.45)
BB ($200)
UTG ($508.3)
HJ ($257.65)
HERO ($216.35)
BTN ($236.75)

Dealt to Hero 4 4

UTG Raises To $7 , HJ Folds , HERO Calls $7 , BTN Folds , SB Folds , BB Folds

Flop ($14) J 4 5
UTG Checks , HERO Bets $12 , UTG Calls $12

Turn ($38) J 4 5 A
UTG Checks , HERO Bets $45 , UTG Raises To $272 , HERO Calls $152.35 (all-in)

River ($507.35) J 4 5 A 2

UTG shows J J

UTG wins $432.2

Absolutely no way out.

if you're unable to see how absolutely standard this hand is, i'd suggest playing smaller stakes. no offence intended.

Originally Posted by rpm

if you're unable to see how absolutely standard this hand is, i'd suggest playing smaller stakes. no offence intended.

It's a perfectly valid hand to post imo. AJ is heavily discounted as most would cbet that on this flop. Not too likely he jams the three combos of A5s/A4s over our overbet either and what is he really ever semibluffing with like this?

fair point. it is actually far less "standard" than i thought at first sight. i didn't really pay much attention to hero or villain's turn sizing. basically just saw the 3rd nuts against an aggro villain with two flush draws on the board (and AA heavily discounted due to flop check) and then proceeded to make misguided comments. standard, really.

apologies, OP.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

It's a perfectly valid hand to post imo. AJ is heavily discounted as most would cbet that on this flop. Not too likely he jams the three combos of A5s/A4s over our overbet either and what is he really ever semibluffing with like this?

+1

pocketfours - it can be my bad translation, but in 1st post u r saying, that you would call and in 2nd, that you don't think he has worse hand??

- I think if ever exist some way to get off flopped set over set 100bb deep, its probably this. I really don't see any other hand he would play like this, than JJ

- turn overbet seems pretty good - I like it

Thanks for the input guys.

Originally Posted by Mr. Diamond

pocketfours - it can be my bad translation, but in 1st post u r saying, that you would call and in 2nd, that you don't think he has worse hand??

- I think if ever exist some way to get off flopped set over set 100bb deep, its probably this. I really don't see any other hand he would play like this, than JJ

- turn overbet seems pretty good - I like it

Unknown 28/18 isn't really repping anything on a board where slowplaying doesn't seem like a very good idea. Also very likely that our line is confusing to him, so without more reads I'm not folding my set.

Originally Posted by 2Cord McCord

Thanks for the input guys.

Thanks for posting. Please leave out results next time you post, like this:

Turn ($38) J 4 5 A
UTG Checks , HERO Bets $45 , UTG Raises To $272 , HERO?

You're trapped !

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Unknown 28/18 isn't really repping anything on a board where slowplaying doesn't seem like a very good idea. Also very likely that our line is confusing to him, so without more reads I'm not folding my set.

Ok, but he can think:
- I have board crushed, blocking TP, get 1 street of value from hero made hands, hero range misses this board almost always (especially when I have JJ), my hand is pretty safe vs his range, so I will give him free card or chance to bluff
- of course just speculation, but I really don't see any other hand, than JJ - this is my whole problem

- so you would call just because you have set vs crazy line, or what worse do you think he can have??

- and idk, but if you compare his hand vs our range his slowplay can't be that bad

Originally Posted by Mr. Diamond

Ok, but he can think:
- I have board crushed, blocking TP, get 1 street of value from hero made hands, hero range misses this board almost always (especially when I have JJ), my hand is pretty safe vs his range, so I will give him free card or chance to bluff
- of course just speculation, but I really don't see any other hand, than JJ - this is my whole problem

- so you would call just because you have set vs crazy line, or what worse do you think he can have??

- and idk, but if you compare his hand vs our range his slowplay can't be that bad

For all we know he could have ak and think its the nuts, since this turn bet sure doesn't look like it wants a call, or so he might think. I've seen weak players go completely bananas when faced with overbets. Maybe he wants to protect his two pair, who knows? AJ is discounted but in no way is it completely dismissible. Also what's the point of the overbet vs someone with a very high af if we're folding cmon?

Originally Posted by pocketfours

For all we know he could have ak and think its the nuts, since this turn bet sure doesn't look like it wants a call, or so he might think. I've seen weak players go completely bananas when faced with overbets. Maybe he wants to protect his two pair, who knows? AJ is discounted but in no way is it completely dismissible. Also what's the point of the overbet vs someone with a very high af if we're folding cmon?

AK - w/ his AF I highly doubt, that he will c/c flop
two pair - he can spazz vs overbet, but its just speculation and there is much more likely he will not
- we have roughly 2:1 on call, and they are 3 combos of JJ. And if we assume we are dead or he is dead, then he must have atleast 1,5 combos of these two pair. And there is big chance he would cbet As4s - and there are only 2 combos of two pair Ac5c, Ad5d and you need him to ship w/ these atleast 75% of the time, which I think is unreal
AJ - I think he would cbet almost always - and problem is, if you think he can have AJ, then he can easily have AA too

Originally Posted by Mr. Diamond

AK - w/ his AF I highly doubt, that he will c/c flop
two pair - he can spazz vs overbet, but its just speculation and there is much more likely he will not
- we have roughly 2:1 on call, and they are 3 combos of JJ. And if we assume we are dead or he is dead, then he must have atleast 1,5 combos of these two pair. And there is big chance he would cbet As4s - and there are only 2 combos of two pair Ac5c, Ad5d and you need him to ship w/ these atleast 75% of the time, which I think is unreal
AJ - I think he would cbet almost always - and problem is, if you think he can have AJ, then he can easily have AA too

I don't understand why you think this is some standard OOP slowplay with JJ? I hope you don't check JJ on this flop yourself? It's a horrendous play imo and def needs heavy discount like everything else. Overbetting this turn and folding to a shove without reads is another terrible play.

AJ is 9 combos, AA is 3.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

I don't understand why you think this is some standard OOP slowplay with JJ? I hope you don't check JJ on this flop yourself? It's a horrendous play imo and def needs heavy discount like everything else. Overbetting this turn and folding to a shove without reads is another terrible play.

AJ is 9 combos, AA is 3.

My standard play is to cbet here w/ JJ. I just think he would play only jacks this way- other hands doesn't make sense, thats all.

And about that slowplay - I put this hand into Flopzilla (which is great program, will definitely buy it in future) and it shows that 88% of hero range (I made it w/ my range) has 5,3% equity vs JJ on this flop - so sick. The rest 12% is OESD or FD

LOL I would sit there and think I'm drawing to 1 out actually QUITE often but still would have trouble actually pressing fold... But I honestly think there are strong arguments for folding here.

Like what hands c/c the flop and c/r the turn that are draws? There just aren't any, and I just really don't see guys playing AJ this way ESPECIALLY against your turn overbet.

I've been playing lower more often lately, but I've been overset maybe 3 or 4 times in my last 15k hands... each time I seriously contemplated folding, and afterwards when reviewing the hands I felt I could have gotten away from pretty much all of them. It's quite rare that I think I'm overset and actually am not.