1/2 - JJ turns FH 3-way

PFR'er seems to play pretty standardly (22/19/2.2) but is losing over a large sample with a highish WTSD. He has a low 2barrel%, so it's pretty clear he has something here. BB is an aggro and spewy reg, running 28/23/3.4.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($201)
BB ($282.40)
UTG ($236.15)
Hero (MP) ($201.75)
Button ($200)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J
UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6, 2 folds, BB calls $4

Flop: ($19) J, 8, Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $13, Hero calls $13, BB calls $13

Turn: ($58) Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $36, Hero...

i think its pretty player dependent. things i would think about is does the value of raising here have a higher value then calling. if the spewy guy will do something retarded its probably best to flat but if you think the reg will get it in with you i would probably just do that because it guarantees you the rest of a stack while the river could come off bad for you [you no longer have a best hand, kills your action, etc.] also there is no guarantee that spewy guy will flat behind your flat. so id go with a raise if you think you can get it in.

I'd raise here. If he's double barelling here, it's pretty likely he has Qx on this board. The board is drawy enough that he won't fold it if you raise, and he won't expect you to raise boats.

I would flat.

Originally Posted by griffey24

I'd raise here. If he's double barelling here, it's pretty likely he has Qx on this board. The board is drawy enough that he won't fold it if you raise, and he won't expect you to raise boats.

Griffey do you ever raise draws here? If your raising your nuts to balance your semi-bluffs its good but if we put them on Qx after the 2barrel we would always fold weaker no?

If were just raising to extract value from Qx then we can do that on the river as well. Calling might also give us some value from hands they would 3barrel with but fold to a raise.

The only reason I see for not flatting is that we give them a chance to hit their 3outs from AQ KQ QT

edit* 4 outs

If he has a low barrel frequency id rather just raise flop.

And flat turn, if you raise he folds AA/KK/KTs/9Ts/hearts. If you flat he fires some of those bluffs on river anyway, and you still stack Qx/88 on 95% of rivers.

Flat for the same reasons as Alexos.

If we're so certain UTG has something that he'd very likely stack off with on the turn, we aren't going to have a difficult time getting more money in on the river vs him. Which means we have room to see what else we can get out of the BB.

If we didn't have position it'd be more of a turn c/r imo, but being last to act on the river is a huge benefit.

I think raising the flop is better than flatting. People expect you to slow play big hands when its multiway. bb is also pretty likely to just monkey in a lot of hands if you raise utg. Plus your stacking the same range of utg on the flop as you are on the turn since he's not double barreling frequently.

I would raise flop as well, but DEF just call this turn. He's going to commit himself so often on the river plus you might fold out 9-10 and FDs by raising here.

ok, I flatted and bb flatted behind. Villains each had one out and one of them hit, this thread can now be moved to Tales.

I feel like in general, we're flatting here for the offchance that we can somehow stack both villains on the river (as opposed to taking the likely scenario where we can just stack UTG now). Like BB rivers some flush and open shoves, utg hero calls with like AQ or something and we ship.

Isn't it more realistic that instead of stacking UTG now, we call, BB often folds and the river brings a card that slows down all the action, and we don't stack anyone at all? I feel like any card 8+, or a club/heart may slow down river action.

Originally Posted by zook

ok, I flatted and bb flatted behind. Villains each had one out and one of them hit, this thread can now be moved to Tales.

Ouch. Was the river 8c, 8d, 8s, 9h, Th, Jh, 9c, Tc, Kc or Ac?

Kc