[50NL] TT 3bet pot

Villain is 26/19/8 (3bet, 1/13) over 44 hands.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): $50.16
CO: $56.88
BTN: $50.00
SB: $67.39
BB: $54.97
UTG: $100.07

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has T T

fold, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, SB raises to $5.50, fold, Hero calls $4.00

Flop: ($11.50, 2 players) 7 2 8
SB bets $11.00, Hero ???

I guess we're folding here? That CB is huge. I think he can have TT+, AQs+ and AKo. I don't know if he 3bets 77-99, I wouldn't think so though. We have 41% equity vs this range.

4bet/fold>>>fold>>>calling
Just 12:1 implied odds vs a relative high 3bet range which wount pay you often enough

Pre is a clear call and I'd probably fold the flop when he bets the full pot like that. I doubt he would do that with AK/AQ so i think you're just toast here a lot.

Wp if you folded.

Whilst 50nl is the first level that seems super aggro pre, villains still aren't 3bet bluffing much in the blinds versus utg and mp. When he pots it, take a note on his sizing and ditch it.

PS: I find 50nl Zoom super soft compared to normal tables - come spew with me!

Damn.seems i am way off then you here. Why is flatting better
then 4bet /fold vs the range hero estimated?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

Damn.seems i am way off then you here. Why is flatting better
then 4bet /fold vs the range hero estimated?

I think we have a good hand to play post-flop. We have the best hand a good amount of the time pre-flop, and we still have the best hand on a lot of flops as well. We also have position.

Villain's range is probably pretty strong here and we only narrow it further by 4betting pre. If he does have an overpair and we manage to flop a set, happy days.

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for 4betting?

@TBC - I don't play Zoom, not a big fan of it.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

I guess we're folding here? That CB is huge. .

bold is key. Fold is good. nh.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for 4betting?

@TBC - I don't play Zoom, not a big fan of it.

w/ 12:1 implied odds even if we stack villain every time we hit still not enough to be +EV call and thats an estimate on QQ+.
w/ a looser 3bet range like you estimate we need even better implied odds.

4bet/fold vs your estimated range w/ just a 60% fold to 4bet has a better EV then flatting as long as we are not monkey spewing when he calls.

Set value is a relatively small portion of the EV of calling TT pre here. It's a much much different hand from 22.

Renton,following your reasoning can we add then suited broadways and 8Ts/9Ts to our 3bet fllating range in this spot ? What would be the bottom of our flatting range here?
How does the situation changes in having TP on Thigh flop vs having TT on 9high flop?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

Renton,following your reasoning can we add then suited broadways and 8Ts/9Ts to our 3bet fllating range in this spot ? What would be the bottom of our flatting range here?
How does the situation changes in having TP on Thigh flop vs having TT on 9high flop?

He's probably 3-betting a pretty tight range from SB vs MP, but we don't have any information and he seems pretty aggro so I'll go close to a game theory optimal defense range.

Assume we're opening a 19.5% MP range of AJ KJ QJ 22 65s 97s Q9s A2s

And lets say we defend the top 40% of those hands.

0.195*0.4 = 0.078 or 7.8% of hands

So to defend often enough we call with AQ AK 88+ T9s+ QTs+ AJs+, 7.69%

And that seems about right. If you're uncomfortable calling the worst of these hands you can turn them into 4bet bluffs.

As for whether we'd rather have 98 or TT on a 9 high flop, obviously we'd rather have 98 because it has more equity when behind and more implied odds. But TT is definitely a more valuable hand preflop facing a 3-bet because of set value and because we can call a cbet on like 65-70% of flops. 98s will only be able to call a cbet on like 45% of flops.

Hmmm. Again i feel that just by luck and worst players i have reached higher stakes.
In flatting that 3bet range IP do we give up w/o at leadt holding TP?
In this spot facing this villain w/ this cbet how would we play your estimated fllating range?
Feels like we have mo FE here so we are shoving over nut flushes/oesd/88/gutshot+fd and folding 99-QQ and air? What do we do w/ just flush draws? W/ no FE seems like a -EV shove or just a breakeven given the fact we are shoving 45$ in a 100$pot.

How would you guys play rentons fllating range in this exact spot? Do you feel we have any FE after his cbet?

When he bets the full pot like this, its pretty hard for him to be bluffing, so I'd fold the vast majority of my range. Had he bet a more standard 1/2-3/4 size I would call with AK, AhQ/AdQd, 8x, 99+, fd/T9, possibly JT of diamonds, possibly 97/76 of diamonds if I called those pre.

To answer your question, when he pots it here like this i'd shove with probably JJ and better and most flush draws. T9 i'd probably just fold.

Does this range sound reasonable for villain potting: AQhh/AKhh/JJ+? Can he go wider like AhK/AhQ?
You shove JJ+/flushes because you think we have enough equity or some combos are for range balance also?
Havent answered, do you think he has a pot/fold range? If so what whould that be? Guess he never folds QQ+/AQhh/AKhh to a shove

Well he could just have AK and be dumb. I'm sure there's *some* fold equity if we jam here. I'd jam JJ cause I'm not confident in my read of his bet size to do anything else. I'd jam flush draws because I don't really care if he folds or not, i have 36% equity and it's a big pot, not much else really to say there.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

4bet/fold>>>fold>>>calling
Just 12:1 implied odds vs a relative high 3bet range which wount pay you often enough

What purpose does 4b folding serve exactly? You might as well have 27o if that's your plan. 4b/folding only has merit with specific reads that villain likes to 3b wide and flat 4b wide OOP and only jams very narrow for value. I don't think we have these reads here?

On flop meh, feel like in my games I'm def always peeling but I can see merit to folding given his sizing.

Originally Posted by Renton

He's probably 3-betting a pretty tight range from SB vs MP, but we don't have any information and he seems pretty aggro so I'll go close to a game theory optimal defense range.

Assume we're opening a 19.5% MP range of AJ KJ QJ 22 65s 97s Q9s A2s

And lets say we defend the top 40% of those hands.

0.195*0.4 = 0.078 or 7.8% of hands

So to defend often enough we call with AQ AK 88+ T9s+ QTs+ AJs+, 7.69%

do you typically defend with the top section of your range in this type of spot vs hands that may end up more playable vs villain's likely postflop continuing range?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

Hmmm. Again i feel that just by luck and worst players i have reached higher stakes.

there's a lot to be said for being uber-nit with massively strong ranges. Most of our money comes from terri-bad players. Those players often won't distinguish between the nit and the lag. And in the meantime you're pretty much always in simple spots with strong ranges in hands vs regs.

Originally Posted by daven

do you typically defend with the top section of your range in this type of spot vs hands that may end up more playable vs villain's likely postflop continuing range?

I'm not sure I understand the question. In poker I estimate the 3-betting range that I'm facing, and to defend the maximum amount of profitable hands I can vs that range. Often this ends up being substantially more narrow than the top 40% of my range. But when I'm not sure, I do 40% because if I'm folding over 60% of my range to 3-bets, he can 3-bet 72o profitably vs me as long as he cbets in a few good spots and otherwise freerolls me for the chance of a 77x/22x/72x flop.

This is defensive strategy, playing in a way that limits the amount with which you can be exploited by the opponent. The bottom few defends such as 88 or QTs might be slight spew to call the 3-bet, but they lower my fold to 3-bet to a level that prevents players (including other players that record my stats, not just the current villain) from 3-betting me as often in the future. This is a measurable benefit, as being 3-bet is pretty much the worst possible result when you open any hand thats not JJ+/AK.

Lots of questions. Just a few now.
How does the range change vs realiable stat like 5-8% 3bet ? As i understood that a fllatting range vs unknows/low sample/high 3bettors.

How does our defence range vs 3bet changes w/ hero beeing OOP?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

Lots of questions. Just a few now.
How does the range change vs realiable stat like 5-8% 3bet ? As i understood that a fllatting range vs unknows/low sample/high 3bettors.

5-8 percent is a pretty tight range. That said, certain hands are so strong that they can play vs even a tight range like that. 99+ AQ+ ATs T9s+ QTs+ KTs+ are such hands. I defend them virtually 100% when IP vs a 3-bet, even from tight players.

OOP is obviously a lot tougher, but I still try not to fold too often. It doesn't hurt to widen your 4-bet bluffing range since you can't call as many hands for a profit.

I think sometimes ppl fail to realize that once you've opened, your "call 3b" winrate doesn't have to be positive, it simply has to be better than -250bb/100 or better than -300bb/100 (depending on your opening size).

I think one good filter to perform is to filter "call 3b", but remove any possible premiums like AA/KK/QQ etc and see what kind of winrate you have overall when calling a 3b. If it's SIGNIFICANTLY better than -250bb/100 or what not, then you likely have room to call more 3b. If it's worse than this winrate, then you would have been better off just folding all those hands preflop. (Although - like renton mentioned, then you mention being further exploited by folding too much).

It really depends on his bet sizing in similar 3 bet pots in the past with me and how the metagame that has been going on at the table. If I know that someone will not fold their even the middle of their range to close to full pot but not to standard 1/2 pot, then I will abuse them. Be careful that this guy can't do the same to you, but without a long history I believe it is a fold.