It's kinda obvious that stuff like this would start to pop up. There's a cost to the adoption of the "believe every victim" meme. It incentivizes false accusations and fabrications.
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It's kinda obvious that stuff like this would start to pop up. There's a cost to the adoption of the "believe every victim" meme. It incentivizes false accusations and fabrications.
re: peoples reaction of skepticism about a story that /T_D latches onto:
This is a terrible way to operate. "your side" will make mistakes, and "the other side" will latch onto these. Sometimes "the other side" will fabricate or exaggerate negative stories about "your side", and vice versa-- but to just outright disbelieve a story because it works to the advantage of those you disagree, and therefore is promoted by them, is going to leave you in a truthless bubble built of confirmation bias.
This isn't the start. I remember at least a year ago some woman faking an email and claiming it as hate speech. It's a consequence of the left's obsession with labelling everyone as either a victim or an oppressor.
The fake claims aren't the bigger problem. What is much more serious is the media and the social media celebrities supporting such "victims" unconditionally because it suits their political agenda, while paying no attention to anyone on the right who claims to be a victim of political oppression.
The decent people on the left should be even more concerned than those on the right, since it is highly damaging to the credibility of the left.
There's a reason I abandoned the left many years ago.
Go on T_D for a second and then tell me that I should have given credence to a story that these two guys were hired to impersonate Trump supporters:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/02...0242723677.jpg
This fucking retard... This is the single best thing that has happened to Trump, possibly since he got into office. Certainly this year. Nobody knows the name Christopher Hasson. Everybody knows about Jessie Smollett now. You're not going to have a conversation with a trump supporter for the rest of time where they don't bring up the Jessie Smollett thing.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...15818512941057
I disagree. If the other side is routinely coming up with dumb shit, at some point it's better to just close your mind to it than to keep thinking 'oh really? So and so runs a child porn ring out of a pizza joint?'
Sure my side will do some dumb shit and some shit that's corrupt, and they'll get caught. That doesn't mean I should listen to tinfoil hatters who come up with implausible fantasies.
Are you suggesting that black people by default oppose Trump? Because there's another flaw in your thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
At least you seem to recognise how bad this is for the left.
I don't think there is such a thing as a 'believe every victim' meme. If there were,anyone could accuse you of anything and you'd go straight to jail to await a trial. I think what's happened is it's become apparent that simply dismissing victims' reports when it suits your needs doesn't work anyone.
Most people who report crimes are being honest. It's newsworthy when someone makes a false report. So there's a certain rationale for leaning towards believing people who claim to be victims. This is much better than the alternative of not believing anyone when it doesn't suit your needs.
YES!
He's at like 5% approval rating. You have to be fucking retarded or a billionaire to be a black trump supporter. Go knock yourself out and find waldo: https://www.google.com/search?q=trum...w=1536&bih=736
Actually, it seems it worse for the right that the words 'Trump supporter' have become a shorthand for 'violent prejudiced person who's not too bright.'
When you start a post with "he's at 5% approval rating" you demonstrate that you simply absorb what biased media says without actually thinking how ridiculous it is.
Do you really think he has a 5% approval rating? Really? Think about that. Go figure out how much of his own vote base would need to disapprove, assuming 100% of his opponents disapprove.
Well done for calling all black Trump supporters retards. You either assume literally all Trump supporters are retards, or you're racist. I know you'll say the former, and it might be true.
Maybe 5% if we're asking people in Mexico, Pakistan and Indonesia as well as USA.
For example, I wouldn't say voting for Mitt Romney made someone an idiot just because his political views didn't align with mine.
See the difference?
That Trump is anything but a fat piece of shit trustfund baby who can barely talk coherently, is not a political opinion. If anyone looks at Trump and thinks "respectable!" I'm not being political in assuming that person is an idiot.
Trump got 8% of the black vote in 2016. Generally the polls hover between 3 to 10%. - 30% if it's Rasmussen. idk how they do their polls. I think 5% is a realistic estimate based on the last election and the general trend.
Who says he has to be "respectable"? He just has to be more credible than his opponents.Quote:
That Trump is anything but a fat piece of shit trustfund baby who can barely talk coherently, is not a political opinion. If anyone looks at Trump and thinks "respectable!" I'm not being political in assuming that person is an idiot.
Meh. There's at least some level of conscientiousness and responsiblity in most presidents. Most of them don't want to fuck up their country just for their own personal gain. Trump doesn't give a shit imo; or, he's too stupid to avoid being a fuckup, so maybe it's better he doesn't work very hard.
You have to assume immigration is bad for those arguments to work. And if you think that you should go back to Saxony you German fuck.
You think he's trying to fuck up the country for his own personal gain, that assumes you know his motivations. I don't.
What opponents? He's the president. You either support him or you don't. Opponents have nothing to do with it. "sure, he's secretly selling nuclear secrets to saudi arabia, buuuht Hilary!" - It makes no sense. She's not 2nd president, and supporting neither is an option.
This is the type of blanket prejudice that appeals to ignorant people.
Not everyone in those countries is a fundamentalist baby raper.
Hardly is anyone 'supporting' it. (Some) people are saying you shouldn't dismiss an immigrant simply by dint of them coming from a Muslim country. Big difference there.
The difference between us is that I don't hold my opinion to be any more worthy than yours. I see a dumb fuck who wants what's best for his country. He's already got everything he needs... billions of dollars at the biggest job in America. His ego is what matters to him. And the only way for him to massage his ego further would be to, in his opinion, make America great again. That's why I think he went for presidency.
Maybe I'm wrong and you're right. I don't think you're a retard for disagreeing with me. You guys default into "anyone who supports Trump is a retard", whether you acknowledge it or not. And, in my opinion, the reason is because the left control the media and you guys don't have critical thinking when it comes to absorbing it.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ck-loop-216248
This was surprising a year ago. Now everyone knows that he spends his entire morning watching TV and tweeting about what he sees on Fox. We got his TV watching schedule.
https://www.latimes.com/resizer/kpLG...1m5-snap-image
I never said anything about any country. Don't try that game with me, I'm talking about Islamic immigration.Quote:
Not everyone in those countries is a fundamentalist baby raper.
If anyone is fleeing an Islamic country and is prepared to abandon their religion, I would welcome them.
Every Islamic person supports a system that oppresses women. That's a fact.
What the fuck do you think he's doing that's "making america great" ... "again"?
I don't think you're a retard either. In fact I know you're not. I do think you're uninformed or naive or something though. Because it's plain to me that Trump is pushing hard on the 'worst president ever' crown.
No I think "anyone who is a retard supports Trump." Don't confuse the two.
The media doesn't (afaik) cut and paste film and text to make Trump sound like a babbling incoherent racist.
The day Trump announced he was running, he said "I'm gonna build a Wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it."
That was the day I thought "A lot of retards are going to support this guy."
I think you underestimate how many people find this more palatable than importing voters.Quote:
The day Trump announced he was running, he said "I'm gonna build a Wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it."
I just don't see how you can look at what he's doing and think any of it is in good faith. Selling nuclear technology to SA is making america great? Denying intelligence reports and siding with SA on Kashoggi killings is making america great? Is calling the press the enemy of the people making america great? What about saying Mexico is "sending murders and rapists"? Saying you don't believe crime statistics because you "just have to look at them(mexicans)" to know they're bad hombres. What part of that is anything but playing to the primal fears of his voter base to get him re-elected? That is the only thing he cares about.
Talking about right wingers perpetrating conspiracy theories. What the fuck are you talking about? North Carolina is in another massive voter fraud scandal - member when I tried to explain Wuf this a year ago - now it's all new and all different voter fraud in NC! But somehow the only real voter fraud is Trumps tweed that California imported 3 million illegal votes. That is the only real news. All other news is fake news.
I would expect a question on an immigration application form to ask about religion, with the caveat that you don't have to answer, or an option saying "prefer not to say".
I would not allow anyone in, whatever their religion, including atheism, if there was any reason to believe there was a conflict with British values. Equality of women is certainly something I would consider a British value.
Well done for finding something that outrages me too. I'll say this... there's a very good chance that it's out of Trump's hands, in the sense he's not the person who controls American foreign policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
That would be a policy I could support.Quote:
So by your logic, anyone who says 'muslim' to the above question is automatically disqualified.
Trump build less wall than Obama - 0 vs 150+ miles. I wonder why he ever bothered to try to build anything - he didn't need to. Yesterday he tweeted out a video of fence replacement that was taken a year ago, showing the replacement of existing fencing that was planned and budgeted under Obama. That is all it took. Trumples are eating it up like a baby koala is eating up their mothers pap.
You're stuck in 2000 with your fear of muslims, Ong. A tiny tiny fraction of mass shootings and terror attacks in the past decade in america were carried out by muslims. White americans have committed way more and more lethal terror attacks than muslim immigrants. I hate being an apologist for muslims, but that fear is not based in facts.
I'm not afraid of Muslims. This isn't about terrorism. I despise their oppression of women, and their unwillingness to integrate into the societies they migrate to.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
If one just looks at Mexico, here's the numbers:
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/prog...tion-over-time
1970 was when the number of immigrants living in the US started going up dramatically, until they peaked around 2010 and then started falling again.
There was an R president for 26 of those 40 years.
Mexico is a non-Islamic country and is right next to America.
The Russia hysteria is more media nonsense. Ignore it, I do.
I'm integrated. I work one day a week at Oxfam as a volunteer.Quote:
You're unwilling to integrate into society...
But even so, I was born here, so were my parents, and I don't have another passport. British state has no choice but to consider me British.
yeah all those indictments related to collusion with Russia? Witch hunt.
I work five days a week, like most people. So I'm five times as integrated as you. But if I thought my wife should wear a veil you'd want to boot me out.
Well, hypothetically they could still decide to kick you out.
One would certainly have to believe so to think they're being imported on purpose since they make up the biggest single group of immigrants to the US.
But I guess we've seen there's no evidence that more are allowed in by D presidents than by R ones. So forget it.
Well lucky for you, you grew up in a country that has values very similar to ours, which means you don't have to work as hard to convince us that you personally have acceptable values.Quote:
I work five days a week, like most people. So I'm five times as integrated as you. But if I thought my wife should wear a veil you'd want to boot me out.
But yeah, make your wife cover up her face in public and I might jump on the "deport poop" bandwagon. Your wife can stay though if she wants.
I doubt that very much.Quote:
Well, hypothetically they could still decide to kick you out.
Show me evidence that Mexican voters tend to vote for whoever was in power when they came in, and I'll listen to this argument.Quote:
But I guess we've seen there's no evidence that more are allowed in by D presidents than by R ones. So forget it.
Not just cover her face... if you refuse to let her drive, or go to college, if you beat her because your dinner isn't acceptable, then yeah, kindly fuck off back to where you came from.
Why do you keep pivoting? You clearly called muslims a security threat. When I tell you they're clearly not they become a "cultural" threat - whatever that means, and you start making shit up. What percentage of american muslims think that women shouldn't drive? Shouldn't go to collage? Where do you get the domestic violence stats from? Is this based in reality, or is it just your feelings?
You assumed terrorism from the "security threat". Actually I think the bigger problem is a future civil war, when it's clear that integration is not forthcoming and there is a serious risk that an Islamic political party can gain power. That's a distant threat, but one that I consider to be real.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
I don't think I've ever seen an Islamic woman driving.Quote:
What percentage of muslims think that women shouldn't drive?
I was citing this more in the context of British values, rather than charging Muslims with this accusation. I don't know if domestic violence is higher amongst the Islamic population than non-Islamic, but I would expect it to be, since their men tend to consider women as subordinate, a result of their religious indoctrination.Quote:
Where do you get the domestic violence stats from?
So you make these claim based on your personal believes, and you think political action should be taken based on your feelings. If this sounds harsh, please correct me.
The claim that you haven't seen muslim women drive is curious. What percentage of british muslim women even wear hijabs?
You're strawmanning me here.
I did not say that you should consider what T_D has to say as credible, I said that you should not dismiss things because T_D supports them.
I'm not even saying it's crazy to be a little more skeptical of things that fringe nutsos peddle, but it's a dangerous habit because it forces you into a reactionary mode in which you reject the truth should a nutso happen to espouse it. When you do this, you're allowing fringe nutso's to control your world view. That can't be a good look.
Well this one shouldn't be allowed to drive, she's on the fuckign phone!
https://www.videoblocks.com/video/mo...5ma5zzj3bebf4c
I'd still bang her though.
And I think you should until someone credible confirms the story.
I wouldn't listen to some radical SJW lefty website either, if that helps.
This would only make sense if I automatically believed the exact opposite of whatever a nutso was saying. I don't. I withold jugdment until there's more evidence, and at least some of it is credible, and even then I'm never 100% convinced.
My point is that when you swing in the direction of giving more credence to accusers it's not without costs. I am not even saying that we've over corrected. The status quo did seem to be intolerable, and I'm not sure where the balance point is. When being a "survivor" is accompanied by social credits, you will incentivize people to both fabricate assaults and stretch the definition of assault.
The paradox is that the more you incentivize false victimhood, the more fake victims you get, the more skeptical people will be of all victims.
I agree there's scope for unscrupulous people to abuse others' trust, and that there's always going to be a balancing act between accepting some number of false positives and wrongly rejecting some number of true positives.
The correct approach to evaluating any claim should be evidence based. Using sexual assault as an example, I think a bigger problem is that when the evidence is not sufficient to convict an alleged perpetrator, the assumption is often that the victim must have been lying. And, because it's so hard to get convictions on SA cases (it's usually a he-said she-said type of thing), it discourages victims from coming forward.
Using Blasey-Ford as an example, she gave by all professional accounts a much more credible testimony than Kavanaugh did, but not a court in the world would have ever convicted him of sexual assault on the basis of her 30 year old memories (nor should they imo). Even the senate couldn't find sufficient reason to bounce him although i suspect privately most of them probably believed her story over his. This leads to the problem I mentioned in that now she is open to being called a liar and a shill for the Ds, and had to go through not only the embarrassment of the hearing itself, but had to change her job and move address because of the notoriety she gained through something she really should be getting a courage badge for.
The whole metoo thing is a net positive for society because it removes some of the stigma from the real survivors, although I agree it does have the negative side effect of encouraging shitty types of people to just make things up to get some kind of revenge or fame or whatever.
Fair enough. I don't read T_D and I was seeing stories about the alleged assault, and then the possibility it was faked, and then today his arrest over the past few weeks from the AP. Maybe you just weren't seeing these stories in credible outlets, but they were there.
Based on my observations, very high. The burka is not so common, but I wouldn't call it rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
The oppression of women is not a feeling. And if I were actually in charge of policy, I'd be citing just facts, not feelings.Quote:
So you make these claim based on your personal believes, and you think political action should be taken based on your feelings. If this sounds harsh, please correct me.
Define 'observation'. If by this, you mean 'whenever I spot a hijab I know it's a muslim', that's not really scientific. How do you identify a muslim who's not wearing a hijab?
Maybe it's different for me being in a university setting, but most students I would suspect are muslim based on their names aren't wearing hijabs, in fact it's rare. And I don't think I've ever had a muslim student going full ninja (burka), although I did have one wearing the semi-ninja (everything covered but the face).
What site? Can you find it? What credible news source reported on this as anything other than "actor claims." Every single pro-trump outlet is presenting this as if it was a major story. Maybe you can show me otherwise. I really don't think it was a major story at all up until claims surfaced that he faked it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/...d_the_tens_of/
According to T_D, Kamala Harris orchestrated this and is currently killing off the people who know, and the police is destroying evidence of this left-wing hoax. I'm not gonna fact check that, boost. If it turns out they're right on that too, then, I'm just gonna... buy a balloon and see where the winds take me. I honestly still can't believe the part that actually what happened. Who the fuck stages an attack with no witnesses? Who hires the blackest nigerians to impersonate Trump supporters? How fucking retarded are you? To get more money? Why would that get him more money! What the fuck is going on!
I'm going to say yes, it's because you're in a university setting. Any female Muslim at a university with white male British folk is part of a tolerant family seeking to truly integrate. I wish I could say that was a reflection of Islamic immigration in general. But it's not.Quote:
Maybe it's different for me being in a university setting, but most students I would suspect are muslim based on their names aren't wearing hijabs, in fact it's rare.
Try going to the suburbs of Birmingham. Whenever I have to get the bus through certain parts, it is clear that many Islamic immigrants have no intention of integrating. ALL of the women you can see are wearing at least a hijab, and we are talking about a district where there are very few, if any, white people living. The schools in these regions are Islamic schools, then banks are Islamic, the shops are Islamic. This would be fine if it were unique. There's regions of Spain where it's full of English people, who speak exclusively English and eat fish and chips. The Spanish don't really like these guys, can't say I blame them. Fortunately for Spain, it's not widespread. If it were, then the English would be more disliked. And we're not even batshit religious nutjobs, we share a lot in common with the Spanish, even if we speak different languages.
Sounds scary. What tangible problems does this cause?
Damn though, come to think of it I know what you mean. There's a place in London called Southall that is basically 99% Indians. They have indian shops, indian clothes, I mean it's like they want to keep their culture or something. Then there's another place called Edgware that is full of Arabs. They wear arab clothes, smoke the hookah, have arab restaurants. There's also Jamacian neighbourhoods, Polish neighbourhoods, Bengali, etc., but I'm too scared to go there. Mostly I just go and sit in a park in Wimbledon hoping I don't have to mix with other races.
The old "Islam is a race" card. Nice work.Quote:
Originally Posted by poop
Islam is not a race, it is not a country. It is a religion that is incompatible with the Western way of life.
I would not say the same about Indians (non-Islamic), Jamaicans, Polish or any other source of mass immigration.