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An interesting thing here is that attempting to solve this problem suggests a real problem when there is too much centralization.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
The amount of Pepsi at his expense a person thinks should be given to somebody designated in need of help that he has never met is most likely LESS than what he would give to a person he knew personally that he was trying to help.
https://gop.com/the-highly-anticipat...e-news-awards/Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Still haven't seen them though. Must be a busy site.
Quote:
The site is temporarily offline, we are working to bring it back up. Please try back later.
Still can't get the site to load, but just saw the top 5 listed on TV.
#1 is NY Times columnist Krugman claiming on election day that "the US economy will never recover"
Football spiked.
roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
The man is a true embarrassment.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
He is decent at economics when he discusses things without any semblance of politics. But bring in the politics and holy fuck he loses it.
To put Krugman in contrast, right after the election news, my very close friend who did not like Trump told me "I hope you're right about that." He was referring to me telling him before the election that after Trump wins, the economy will do markedly better. I have this superpower of paying attention to what's in economics textbooks. Krugman has the superpower of watching how many copies of his PhD it takes to clog the toilet.
Compile the best examples of Fake News in one good-looking and user-friendly source that patriots will send their friends? Just Very Stable Genius things.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
It's, like, very smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...th-care-289542
Quote:
The Trump administration on Thursday will announce an overhaul of the HHS civil rights office as part of a broader plan to protect health workers who don't want to perform abortions, treat transgender patients seeking to transition or provide other services for which they have religious or moral objections.
Under a proposed rule — which has been closely guarded at HHS and is now under review by the White House — the civil rights office would be empowered to further shield these workers and punish organizations that don’t allow them to express their religious and moral objections, according to sources on and off the Hill. That would be a significant shift for the office, which currently focuses on enforcing federal civil rights and health care privacy laws.
#sharia I mean #MAGA
this is so backwards I don't even know where to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Forcing workers to perform tasks that they find gruesome, morally reprehensible, and most importantly, religiously offensive...IN A COUNTRY THAT PROTECTS FREEDOM OF RELIGION....would be the most sharia-like thing I can think of.
Forcing people to sell commodities they own that they do not want to sell is the opposite of freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
No one is forced into any profession.
If you were hired to do X and you take the job, then claim your religious beliefs preclude you from doing X, that's ridiculous.
No, that's not ridiculous. People can choose not to sell their services for any reason they choose. That's called freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
When the government forces them to sell their services when they do not want to, that is called tyranny.
TY mojoQuote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
I thought I was the crazy one
If your religion would preclude you from selling donuts, why would you work at a donut shop?
By this rationale, people who do not work on Sunday due to religious reasons should not work anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Ridiculous oversimplification.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
Doctors and nurses perform a myriad of tasks. Categorizing their job as "x" is shallow and naive.
If they find one of those tasks morally reprehensible....does that mean they can't be doctors or nurses?? Only pro-choice people can work in the medical profession??
For the record, I generally side against people who claim religion as means to discriminate.
If you bake cakes, then bake cakes. If a gay couple wants a cake, who cares. All you're doing is baking a cake. Which is your job. You aren't being gay, you aren't endorsing gay-ness, you aren't offending god. All you're doing is baking a cake. Just like you do for everybody else who likes cake. So bake the damn cake and shut the fuck up.
But this goes beyond that. You're asking someone to crush the skull of a fetus and vacuum it's carcass into the garbage. How is the difference not obvious?
Baking a cake is not an act of gay-ness, so you can't claim anti-gay religious beliefs in order to avoid baking the cake.
But performing an abortion IS an act contrary religious beliefs. Huge difference. And the first amendment protects people's religious freedoms such that they shouldn't ever have to choose between keeping their job, and keeping their faith.
You areQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
I don't think you have to even make the argument as specific as finding a task morally reprehensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Suppose you have some apples. You traded an apple for $1 with some people. That does not mean you should be forced to trade an apple for $1 with me.
I've been charged more for a pedicure just because I'm a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Totally legal.
Total bullshit, but totally legal.
I'm completely fine with being on the receiving end of that. I have the choice of going somewhere else for services, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
I actually think it's an industry-wide practice. The argument is that men go less often than women, therefore the higher price is justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
The only places I haven't seen that done is at casino spas, but a pedi in one of those places is like $90 as it is.
That's the price you pay for being gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Whatever fag.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I had a good winning night at the poker table once, and often times when that happens, I'll splurge on a massage. The casino spa was offering a special "mens package" that day which allowed me to get the pedi and the massage for roughly the same price.
Up until that point all I ever did was take the hedge clippers to my toenails every couple of weeks. Then, on this day, I got a pedicure.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHAT A DIFFERENCE.
Even the act of putting on socks felt smoother, and more comfortable. I really don't know how to describe how much more comfortable, and healthy my feet felt, and how that feeling improved my overall comportment in ways I still don't understand.
Suffice it to say, as of that day, my feet became someone else's job. And I don't care how gay anyone thinks it is. Don't knock it til you tried it.
Lubing up your butthole is probably more comfortable for a foot to slide into it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Probably just gave libs their new fucking tax plan. ^
What you do with yourself during an amyl-fueled haze is your business buddy. I don't need to hear about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I'm sure someone will chime in any moment know with an eight-paragraph statistical breakdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
The choice to not do something you don't want to do is an important component of how resources are more efficiently allocated towards people's preferences. This is essentially because of how cost and quantity change and how other people respond to the change.
People's preferences include all people. Those preferences are not just what one subset of people think other people should prefer. If the claim is that initiating force on doctors to perform abortions is better for society, the claim is wrong because that which betters society is that which better addresses the preferences of those that make up the society, and the doctor is one of those that make up the society. In a society with freedom of choice, when the doctor doesn't do the abortion, the price and quantity in the market change slightly and the incentives for others to perhaps be more likely to want to then do the abortion change. Over time the level of abortions would reach the level that the people of the society want them to be according to the most sophisticated way of measuring what they value and according to the relevant constraints.
Liberals: "No he's not!"Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
FixedQuote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Mah RussiaQuote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
All illegal immigrants are criminals.
Kristen Gillibrand before the looming government shutdown in 2013
Kristen Gillibrand now...Quote:
“This is much more like what I deal with [my 5 year old son] in the morning when he says he wants to say, ‘I want candy for breakfast.’ It’s really a tantrum; it’s a tea party tantrum. ‘You either give me my way, or we’re going to shut down government.’”
Quote:
“Protecting Dreamers is a moral imperative. I will not vote for a spending bill that doesn’t treat Dreamers fairly,”
They're not sending their best, folks.
"Schumer Shutdown"
BRILLIANT!!
Who would have thought alliteration would be such a powerful political weapon.
Spoiler:Trump did
Acosta still salty he didn't beat out PhD-as-toilet-paper Paul Krugman for #1 at the much loved Fakies.
http://i.magaimg.net/img/2e4a.jpg
I'm glad they expelled this idiot: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...zes_for_r.html
Looks like Martha from The Americans.
fucking lol
https://i.redd.it/ufjkyjf8s3b01.jpg
Wonderful
.Quote:
"Right now, the Democratic leader has no compromise immigration bill on the table. No bill exists. Why do Americans need to suffer from a government shutdown when he doesn’t even have an immigration bill?”
- Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, referring to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer
Does anyone know what it's like to be in a cult?
As I see a cultist and a guy grooming for his cult.
But what about the other things she said and did?Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
More square is that Trumpers demands people see him as perfect and declare him so in turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
30/30. I saw the test and was sweatin some of the questions. I'm sure you weren't though, as you're so great too.
We ask that he is treated fairly. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
When the next democrat is elected President. Remember your own words. Treat them fairly.
Since conservatives did a pretty good job of treating Obama fairly, that shouldn't be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Hahaha, no way.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...cconnell-says/
Hahahaha no way.
What's your point?
Remember when Obama sat down with a round table of Rs and all the brought in their defense was a stack of papers to say, "Who could understand this?" and Obama answered every one of their questions?
Then they didn't do that anymore because it was so low energy.
What's yours. Is Trump being dealt with unfairly?
I don't remember and I don't particularly care. We weren't talking about politicians.
How very convenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Things that might change your mind never happened and aren't a part of what should be considered.
Absolutely. Turn on any mainstream media. Or examine any of the rationales provided against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
It's a night and day difference. Obama was given a pass on virtually everything by the media. Obama's detraction from conservatives came because of his implementation of bad policy. Trump's detraction from the ctrl-left comes from hallucination.
Why would what you provide change my mind when I already agree with you? Republican politicians have been garbage for some time now.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I don't care about 24/7 media because it's crap. I can't remember the last time I watched CNN or Fox News, yet somehow they're apart of every political conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I don't care about turning your hat. I like sparing with ideas. You seem overly-smitten with President Trump. I think he's deeply broken and not up for the challenge of the office.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Why do you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Because I was overly smitten with Obama and Clinton and I know the look.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Sorry Wuf, but is it the 'smitten' part you're questioning, or the 'overly'?Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Take your pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
I was with Obama too. I might also know the look.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
But if we're ever going to exit from probable-hallucination territory, we need substantiation of claims.
Ahahahahhahaa fuck Obama, fuck DACA, Trump 2020 #MAGA so much winning can't stand it
Who genuinely thinks this?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Not you, spoon. You're square.
The winning team. That's who.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
If we can't pay the military, we shouldn't be paying for welfare. That'll straighten this shit out real quick.
Golem of the MAGA cult.
Keep on keepin on, spoon.
Happy Trump Day.
MAGA as fuck.
I wonder what the slogan is gonna be in 3 years. Keep America Great ? #KAG ?
The potential problem I see with this is that you essentially have a majority decide over the minority and while it's not impossible, it's definitely not self-evident that the majority will act with the best interests of the minority in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I appreciate you typing all of this out. I might respond to more of it later. I take great issue with that teaching in africa anecdote but it would take an equal or greater wall of text for me to respond to that.
If vegas ever makes odds on things like this I would guess that "Make America Greater" would be even money at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Are you saying that letting individuals and families and communities decide is disempowering minorities while having government decide is empowering minorities? I'm confused since the former is technically about minorities deciding while the latter is technically about the majority deciding (assuming democracy, which we do assume).Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Not really, because while the political leaders are elected by majority they don't have to act in accordance with the majority on all issues. In contrast: people are more likely to be compassionate towards issues that affect them. This could be fine in some areas. It does not seem fine to me in areas where wealth affects your voting power and the amount of wealth you have inevitably effects your position on the subject. The person who has inherited a million dollars is overwhelmingly more likely to believe to be the master of his own destiny than a crack baby.
I want to address the obvious red herring before it comes up: If this sounds a lot like lobbying, it is, and I don't care much for that either.
On the topic of who is playing the game smartly and who is not, the shutdown is a great example. The Dems stupidly tried to do something they don't even believe in (shutting government down). Why? Who knows, probably has to do with they saw the GOP do it a while back. So then when push came to shove, the Dems surrendered.
In game theory we call the Schumer Shutdown "not a credible threat".
What I like is how the delete-media was never even on board in the first place. Whodathunk that an institution full of people who believe Government = Salvation would not favor shutting down the government?
It was revenge for the "shithole" comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
They wanted Trump to be "punished" for that by forcing him to acquiesce to some really un-Trump-like immigration policies. And they thought they could do it by holding the government hostage.
It backfired. Even CNN and MSNBC just couldn't spin the story credibly enough for the democrats not to look like ass-holes. So, they had to cave.
They brought up Trumps comments in 2013. They even had poopadoop parroting their talking points in this forum. But no one bought it. Yes, the president has to lead, but that kinda goes out the window when the other side is acting irrationally. Irrational behavior does not respond to reason.
I mean, are we going to start ousting teachers when kids act up in the classroom? Are parents gonna start losing custody whenever siblings fight with each other? Sometimes good leadership isn't enough.
I lol'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Zombie is as zombie does.
I just thought the characterization that he was sent to do stuff is funny. He seems perfectly capable of having his own opinions and motives.
You're only saying that cause you're the 1 in 3 conservatives he likes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Let's be honest though....he wasn't thinking for himself when he posted that
You guys do make me look good. It's a contrast I have appreciated silently. And frankly, knowing that makes me even more likely to not be combative and to empathize more with the opposing view. So it's a win all around I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
I have no empathy for people who support an ideology that's responsible for nine-figure death tolls over the past century. Fuck them and anybody who looks like them.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
While I do agree that the base ideology of using government coercion to organize society is the root from which both of the western left/progressivism and communism/fascism emerge, proponents don't see it that way.
The rest of that sentence is redundant, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
FWIW, what I think I know of Spoon is that he's much more empathetic than his pseudo-trolling on this board suggests.
Yeah (obvious, actually, which is why my comment amuses me), but I no longer respect the commune as a place where adults exchange ideas in honest appreciation of each other, so I'm not interested in characterizing spoon as a whole individual, just as a caricature of something he isn't...
That's what we do here, now, isn't it?
The proponents only see it one of two ways.....either they are the puppet masters, and see that as a means to control a population, secure a voting base, and leverage it to maintain power.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
or...
they are the puppets...duped into a sense of entitlement and perception of injustice/unfairness that can only be rectified by government.
No one has ever been un-brainwashed through an "adult exchange of ideas in honest appreciation of each other". The only way to change hearts and minds is for the hypocrisy to be laid bare, in plain, but sometimes crass, terms. The failings of intelligence must be highlighted in ways that sometimes shame the stupid. Human instincts of self-preservation will kick in and reason will override the brainwash-induced ideology.
Dems ended the government shutdown today out of embarrassment....not as a result of a healthy, productive, respectful debate. Their position was laid out, in plain english, for the American people to interpret.
Dems are not paying soldiers because they want free shit for illegals.
Explaining it like that makes their position indefensible. And they were caught defending the indefensible.
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/01/...roup-says.html
COLLUSION!!!!!!!
Yeah well, there are a lot of super basic things they don't understand, and that's a large part of where the zombie analogy comes from.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I have empathy for you because I think your heart is in the right place. As for what gets you off-track, I think your kindness is being taken advantage of and that you're a bit naive due to limited experience in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
I wasn't under the impression that it was ever that. This ties into what I was mentioning earlier about your seemingly Pollyanna tendencies that get taken advantage of.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
That's how the news cycle goes:Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
1. Mah Russia
2. Thing A happens
3. Mah Russia was behind A
4. Thing B happens
5. Mah Russia was behind B
6. Nothing happens for a while
7. Mah Russia
Repeat.
Were you reading it before you arrived? How about before Banana arrived?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
The thing with you two is you seem more interested in insulting and shouting down people who don't share your views than in trying to persuade them with any reasoned arguments the way Wuf and everyone else does. If your aim is to turn this forum into a right-wing echo chamber then you've pretty much won by sheer volume of posts alone.
As far as empathy goes, why should anyone here care if you're a nice person IRL or not? You choose to respond to every post from 'the other side' here by including some ad hominen argument about the person who made it. The response quoted above is just one of dozens of example of that. Being a douche is being a douche; just because you may limit it to one particular corner of the internet doesn't change the fact you're being a douche.
The problem for you guys is, no-one really cares if you think highly of them or not based on your own personal worldview. They just shrug and think 'Well, there's another obnoxious person on the internet I'm better off ignoring.' In the end all you accomplish is to make yourself look like a douche. Ok, well done I guess.
TRIGGEREDQuote:
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
Confirmed douche. Mission accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
The above exchange is spoon legit demonstrating empathy for me. I didn't take the Pollyanna comment as insulting, but an honest assessment from his POV, and not intended to insult. For crap's sake, I often wish I had more of a spine when it comes to trying to make the most of a crap situation, and he's definitely right that I do let people take advantage of me to the point of getting emotionally wrecked by it.
I'm sure you can recognize legit vitriol from spoon by now. That post of his was actually a bit flattering.
The thing with spoon is that he's wicked smart, and his world view is consistent.
(Yeah, I kinda like him... even though we're polar opposites on most viewpoints
EDIT: and he's a manwhore [/EDIT])
***
Once, a few years back, I was in a spell of depression, and spoon and I were even less friendly with each other then than now (not that I know how it looks now). Anyway, he cajoled me into a Skype call, and within minutes he had me laughing myself to tears.
He can be brusque, and his impeccable way with words allows him to really cut when he wants to, but behind all of that is someone I can support.
Good post.
I always thought Spoon was a joke until he told me my facts were wrong, so I asked for explanation and he gave it with the facts. My facts were indeed wrong.
The topic was the Zimmerman/Martin event. I always just assumed the delete-media wasn't lying its ass off about the facts. Lesson learned.
Spoon and I go back a few years. I'm not bothered by him, and don't think I ever really was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
It's hard to actually get insulted by someone whom you don't remotely respect.*
You gotta know that he is a master wordsmith, and he's got a knack for saying just the right thing to trigger one person while making someone else grin.
Basically, his responses are tailored to the site and the person he's responding to so well that it can be hard to immediately see that everything he writes is a pun on a grand scale.
I know that if you let him insult you for a year or so more, you'll start to see through it to the superhero underneath.
*Oh, mother of turds! He's slowing winning my respect so he can break through my insult-proof shield and truly shred me!
Curse you, spooooooon!