Am I ever getting called by worse....

Tried this a few times, mainly getting folds, but getting called here and beat. The idea is to try to make fish spaz out with hands like TP and two pair more often than with a straight......it's 2nl SNAP here..vs unknown...

888 Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) FAST - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $1.39
SB: $2.03 (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 54)
BB: $1.80 (VPIP: 21.62, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 38)
UTG: $3.81 (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 23.21, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 58)
MP: $2.60 (VPIP: 17.23, PFR: 9.89, 3Bet Preflop: 1.34, Hands: 459)
Hero (CO): $2.47

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 3:spade: 3:diamond:

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.06, BTN calls $0.06, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.15, 2 players) T:spade: Q:club: 8:spade:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.15, 2 players) 3:heart:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.15, 2 players) J:club:
Hero bets $2.36, BTN calls $1.33

maybe im crazy but I would b/f , b/f , x/eval

are you x/f flop?

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Originally Posted by acg123

maybe im crazy but I would b/f , b/f , x/eval

are you x/f flop?

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Yes, of course....and yes should have bet OTT...

It's just that I'm cruising playing ABC TAG style so just fancy experimenting with some alternative lines...

If it's total spew, it's total spew...

This isn't good, but that's okay as long as you think through why it's not good. We've all taken this kind of line at some point and it's all part of the learning process at stakes where it's cheap to make mistakes.

I think the problem you have here is that you're trying to get villain to call off with tp or 2pair, but he just doesn't have it all that often when he checks back flop and turn on this board texture. Also consider that even retarded droolers don't like to stack off without 9x here when it's likely he has his entire roll on the table. There's just no need to effectively turn a big hand into a bluff in this spot and you can comfortably bet/fold river a regular size (and maybe a slight overbet) as you're never getting bluffed off here.

Not betting turn is the arguably the biggest mistake in this hand though. Pre- and flop is absolutely fine against a likely weaker player that has plenty of Qx and Tx, plus Jx and 9x that doesn't fold, but not betting turn for the same reasons is missing out on some serious value and allowing villain to get there with his gutshots some percentage of the time.

I'm totally happy x/f OTF as I give unknown Villains a cold calling range of 25% which includes Ax Broadways SC PP and this flop puts us behind his range. So betting the turn say pot, getting call pretty much every time. So with a set and 45c in the pot OTR were not happy with a Jc but better the Js I guess. Are we now c/c up to 45c here and c/f any overbet? Seems good.

Well this is stupid. There's 4-to-straight on the board, why the hell are you spazzing with a set with 15c in the pot? Even if he has 2pr, he's folding. Sure he might hero fold a better set, but he doesn't have better sets in his range because we got to the river without any action.

He's not calling anything worse, ever. Not unless he misreads the board, which is gonna happen slightly above 0% of the time. Therefore, what you did here was turn your hand into a bluff. How many folds do we need to pay for the one time he calls a straight? You're betting $1.33 to win 15c. That's around x9.

So, you need him to have JJ nine times more often than 9x.

Nope.

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Not betting turn is the arguably the biggest mistake in this hand though.

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I think overbetting the river at this size is a much bigger mistake than checking the turn. This is is 65bb fuck up. How many hundreds of hands do you think OP will need to play to recover those losses? Letting him see a free river is bad because of his gutshots, but when his gutshots get there, we shouldn't be paying off a lot because it's so easy for us to be beat. Unless we spazz out, of course.

^^

Thanks for posting, but I think I got it now...:p

I'm in a nice place with Poker, as am in no rush to climb stakes. I started with a $80 BR and will only move up when hit $200, so winrates etc are irrelevant. I'm happy to make mistakes as long as I don't keep on making the same ones again and again...that would be really stupid...

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I think overbetting the river at this size is a much bigger mistake than checking the turn. This is is 65bb fuck up. How many hundreds of hands do you think OP will need to play to recover those losses? Letting him see a free river is bad because of his gutshots, but when his gutshots get there, we shouldn't be paying off a lot because it's so easy for us to be beat. Unless we spazz out, of course.

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Oh yeah, the river is not up for debate. The point about the turn was more a point about a consistent mistake that will cost hero more in the long run than an infrequent river mistake. The river jam is an easy mistake to fix, but knowing which turn cards to bet, in which situations, and with what part of our range takes more thought and can make a huge difference in win rate. So many players play the turn badly without really thinking about why they should bet or check (me included) and never question their turn play, instead preferring to focus on marginal pre flop all in decisions, or marginal river decisions that are fairly easy to solve.

Hitting a set OTT is a clear value bet, as stated earlier, this was more of an experimental line, but clearly best not to have my own ideas just yet and stick to the ABC style play.

Fair point bean. You're right... the river mistake is a simple case of don't do it, it costs us 65bb once. The turn mistake is a case of understanding why we should bet, and if we're consistently missing this bet, it's gonna cost us more than 65bb over a large enough sample. I stand corrected.