Give me some advice please

Hello.I'm Andrew from Romania i have 26 years old and play poker for about a year.In this time i read just a few articles and watching over some books but never finish one to read.I play only 2nl because of my bankroll,never put a lot off money in account to play higher limits.First few month just deposit 10-15 bucks play-loose,another deposit.........in total about 200$ lost until Octomber when i deposit the last 15$ and makeing 170$ until March.Than one day i say lets raise the stake and play 5NL.I lost 30$ in that day and being nervous i decided to withdraw the money and finish forever with poker.I let only 30$ in my account thinking that maybe one day i want to play again.I was right after 3days playing again,now having about 50 bucks in my account
So one after another the conclusion is that im a few bucks on the positiv side with the help of rackback,but i'm still a bad player and want to learn to play poker to earn more money.For me it will be enough to beat 10NL and make some 300-400$ buck/month,considering that an average salary is about 400$/month.So i need your advice to tell me what to read,what to learn,what to watch to reached my prupose.Tnks for your help and good luck at tables

Welcome!

It's really great that you decided to start posting here. This place is a great resource that has everything you need to help you learn the fundamental concepts that can turn you into a winning player. From your post it seems that you have a few misconceptions about how to approach the game, mentally. The biggest element that you most likely need to learn is patience. Patience to read posts, articles and books and take the time to understand the contents, patience to ask for advice here by posting hands, patience to stick to very disciplined bankroll-management, patience with the possibly painfully slow learning process.

I'll continue this post later by linking you to some useful threads and articles, if somebody else doesn't do it for me.

EDIT:
Start here. http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...re-123008.html

Tnks Flush.You touched a sensitive point:PATIENCE.I'm not very good at this,maybe one of the biggest problem that affect my game.Another big problem is that even that i read some post's (like the one from begginers digest:learning starts here)i dont stick with what i have read.I still make stupid fancy play some times,but please don;t think about me that i am some kind of fish player.NO.My VPIP is something like 21/7 with 3% of 3 bet,i know that the they are not very good but i don't think about myself a fish player.
But i watch some post's in Romanian forums and i noticed some players with very interesting way o thinking when playing poker.I would love to think poker and not play mechanic poker

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Originally Posted by andy_wpo

Tnks Flush.You touched a sensitive point:PATIENCE.I'm not very good at this,maybe one of the biggest problem that affect my game.Another big problem is that even that i read some post's (like the one from begginers digest:learning starts here)i dont stick with what i have read.I still make stupid fancy play some times,but please don;t think about me that i am some kind of fish player.NO.My VPIP is something like 21/7 with 3% of 3 bet,i know that the they are not very good but i don't think about myself a fish player.
But i watch some post's in Romanian forums and i noticed some players with very interesting way o thinking when playing poker.I would love to think poker and not play mechanic poker

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Nobody here will advocate playing like a robot.

If those are stats for full ring, you're probably too loose, and too passive (not raising enough PF). You probably open limp, and call preflop raises unprofitably.

It sounds like you are playing under-rolled. To start, play 2NL with a $50 BR and start your learning process there. If you're disciplined enough with a good attitude towards learning, you'd be surprised how fast you can be rolled for higher stakes.

It's good that you have a goal in mind, but to be earning that much grinding 10NL, you'd be multitabling with a solid winrate with decent volume... Like grind a minimum of 1000 hands a day for every day of the month with a 5ptbb/100 winrate. I reckon you probably need to fix quite a few leaks in your game before you're able to achieve this.

hey andy.

Thinking poker is as simple as it sounds, decide why your making all the plays your making, and figure out if there's a better one possible. The easiest way to do this is to do a hand history review, it's hard to do while playing until you get alot of practise. And bankroll management is hugely important. It won't take you long to be crushing 10nl, even if you start at 2nl. You just need to work hard, stick with it, and put in the time.

gl man.

oh, and if you don't have pokertracer3 or holdem manager, get them, they're totally essential.

just noticed your stats are up so you must have one of the tracking softwares.

but jesus stop openlimping, this is a huge leak.

Avg salary of $400/month? Good christ are you Romanians living on dirt floors?

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

Avg salary of $400/month? Good christ are you Romanians living on dirt floors?

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C'mon man, the cost-of-living must be considerably lower if that's the avg. salary, but that's not relevant to helping this guy learn poker.

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

Avg salary of $400/month? Good christ are you Romanians living on dirt floors?

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Presumably he was talking about USD, the value of which is probably much higher than the value of the Romanian Lei.

Bine ai venit :) sunt baieti buni aici :)

and yes StarGrinder, that's the average here, 400$/month and a a bread is 0,4$, a beer 1$, a pack of cigarettes is 4$, 2L of Coca-Cola is 2$, 1Kg of meat is somewhere around 7-8 $, 1Kg of cheese is 6-7$... and house maintenance goes up for 200$ + food and rest for a 4 members family if you own the house/flat, if not... you add rent 250$+ for at least 2 rooms flat... so yeah... pretty shytti to live in Romania, ;ow wages, high prices, but we manage and its a great country with great people . :)

Tnks guys for your answers.First point i want to make is that i don't have problem with Bankroll Management.Actually i think that is my best part of mine.At the time i got 53$ bankroll with 100fpp away from geting the 25$ bonus and another 10$ for reaching 750Fpp.So all most 90$ i can say,not a bad Bankroll for 2NL.I never take shots at higher level if i dont have at least 30 buyins for the current level,so not a problem with Bankroll Management.
On the other side YES i got problems with open-limp to much,but just because i see things differently at this stake.Maybe not a good ideea but in my opinion most player at this stakes don't care about your raise and you end by losing more money then limping and see a flop.Yes i know not a good thinking :) i will try to change this style of play.Like i say in another post i don't consider myself a begginer,after all i got all most 300k hand played,but i didnt take poker seriously this is way i ask for advice form you guys.
To answer your question StarGrinder WE ROMANIANS live pretty ok.We got nice houses,nice car,nice country,you get the idea.The live is cheap comparable with other countrys and with 1000$/month you live very well here,while in other countrys you can say is minimun salary.

Salut Razvan,mersi de urare si bafta la mese.

the only reason your BRM matters is that you don't go broke.

And it doesn't matter at all whether you consider yourself a 'beginner' or not, it's just a label.

there's tons of free info in the articles in the beginners sticky, and there's tons of helpful good players who'll help you in this very forum, so if you want to get better at poker just start reading articles and posting your thoughts about certain hands in the forums, or posting some of your own hands. If you listen to ppl's opinion and try to understand their reasoning for certain plays, you'll be crushing in notime.

$400/month hey? I love that in your country I could be considered a crazy well paid highroller for being a long term winner at 50NL, maybe even 25NL if i really put in the hours.

on your game, your stat of 21/7 means preflop leaks. Stop limping, limp/calling, cold calling hands like KQ, KJ, AJ, A10. Open raise them in position (CO, BTN) and fold them to a raise before you. Tighten up in early pos, just fold these hands, only play AQ+ and 22+. Don't bother with hands like sc's Ax's, you can show a profit without them and once you've got a better handle on the game and some winnings to burn you can start learning how to play those.

Having played 300K hands doesn't qualify you as a non-beginner. In fact, you've played for such a long time with probably huge leaks in your game, so you've developed lots of bad habits that will now take some effort to un-learn. If you just decided to take learning the game seriously, then in my books you have just "begun", hence a beginner.

you got me here eugmac :(

would not go pro until 25nl and about a 1.25k bankroll with about 3 months living expenses put away given monthly nut requirements.

Stop open limping, just stop.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7171/yodahq.jpg

I don't want to become a pro.I've got a nice job so no thinking about quiting my job but i like to play poker and if i can make some extra money by making something that i like,way not??But for making more money than now i must start play another style.Any way i get the ideea from you guys and tnks for that.

a way to start doing is to read BEGINNERS DIGEST articles. you have the link in eugmac's first post in this thread. after reading them, feel free to ask any question about them, thibgs you havent understood and you will get the best answers here. also start posting hands from your sessions, start with hands that cost you a lot of money, stack off's , post stats for villains in hand and explain your action every street. togheter we will see if you played it bad and will also explain why or it was just variance, a thing you also have to understand and get used to it.

belive me i am used with variance and know how to handel it.When i say i'm not really a begginer i was very serious.I know all this things that you guys tell me,about bankroll,variance,limping,3 bet,4bet,what to open,when to open,etc.I'm not so novice like you think and i'm not playing that bad either.I only need some advice about some thread,topics,books that can make me think at another level than now,not learning the basic of poker.Tnks and i hope that i make my self more clear.

1. Its quite likely that you've read and know 'the basics', however, I wager that if you were applying the knowledge your stats would not be 21/7.

2. Having reread your original post, it sounds like your saying "I lost at 2nl, so I moved up. Then I lost at 5nl so I moved up. Now I'm losing at 10nl. Thankgod for rakeback or I'd be totally broke".

Maybe you know what to do already, that being what everyone has said in this thread. In which case go do that. You don't need to take your thinking to the next level if your not even applying the basic concepts of a ABC poker strategy. This isn't complicated, its a simple strategy that's been completely spelled out in the digest. Apply it and you'll start winning once you've done it for 20,000 hands or so. Post hand histories so better players can make sure your applying g it correctly.

You think you're not that bad? My first year in poker I built up 100$ to nearly $2000 and I can tell you I really wasn't much good. I just applied the basics.

this is all general talk....post hands.... no one can help you if we dont see the way you think and play hands.

i will post when i play.In the last month i didn't play at all i can say so no hands to post.But i will keep updateing when i have some difficult situation.

Scott you must read again my post.I wasnt loosing at 2NL actually i was ok at that limit.Then i gave a shot(not move) at 5 NL and lose 4-5 buy-ins thing that was to much for my bankroll and come back at 2NL.Second i never said that i play 10NL (i don't know were you read that but certainly not in my post) i said that for me is enough to beat 10NL for now.And about "Thankgod for rakeback or I'd be totally broke" your wrong again.ReReRead my post and maybe you will see that i mean that with the money made at 2NL+Rakeback i'm a littel on the positiv side of the line and never lost money at on-line poker.
But you are right,i know what to do but didn't apply that things.And again you are right when you say that i need to focus to the basic concepts and beat this limits and then try to be worried about next level of thinking.

P.S:Yes i really think i'm not that bad considering that i never read a book,or watch a movie and learn everything from MY experience not from others and after one year i was breakeven.AND the VERY big difference between us is you start with 100$ and i start with 15$ so witch version you think is the most difficult????????????

You're right, I did mis-read, perhaps more that I brushed over it too quickly. I apologise for that. Still you're a winner at 2NL? I'm guessing you make your money because the fishies are calling with weak pairs and draws. And because they are willing to pay whole stacks with a middle pair when you flop a set. Thats going to stop happening as you move up. You're mistakes are going to start glaring at you. You have to realise how important the fundmentals are.. here's some (extremely rough) maths for you..

your stat is 21/7, so you're calling more preflop than you should, say 3% of that is limping hands you should be folding, and 3% is hands you're limp/calling or cold calling. plus you're not raising 3-4% of hands you should be, perhaps a little more..

limped junky hands 3/100 at 10NL $0.30
limp/call, coldcall hands 3/100.. $1.20
failing to raise 4/100 hands, lost the 40c you limped into them

total is $1.90 of leaks preflop.
if you're average to good then you win 4BB/100 hands? which is 80c. but you have $1.90 of leaks preflop so you're losing $1.10/100 already without concidering $ you bust with errors post flop, or even $ you don't win because bet sizing was too big or too small..

Obviously I can't conclude that you're leaks are costing you exact amounts as there's too many variables in the game and I havent even begun to consider that you can win $ when you make mistakes, I'm just trying to illustrate that you've got plenty to work on with just basics and posting HH's. Hell, maybe you're a 4BB/winner as is, fix your leaks cos you might triple your win rate.

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Originally Posted by andy_wpo

ReReRead my post and maybe you will see that i mean that with the money made at 2NL+Rakeback i'm a littel on the positiv side of the line and never lost money at on-line poker.

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But you said:

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First few month just deposit 10-15 bucks play-loose,another deposit.........in total about 200$ lost until Octomber when i deposit the last 15$ and makeing 170$ until March.

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It sounds like you lost 100 buyins at 2nl, I think that counts as losing money playing online poker!

eugmac your right but not :) .I deposit 200 make 170 and about 60 with rackback so about 230-200 is +30 from my calculation so didnt lose any money at on line poker ;)

Scott you should not apologiez and i didnt took your post like an insult.Your right i'm not a good player,thing that i specified in my first post,but i just want to understand what i know and what not.Your last post was very useful and yes i have problem with open-limping junk hands,a bad habit.Another problem is that i play more table than it should and i got more leaks that i most resolve and your post make my realize some of this leaks......so tnks to all of you that post here and give advice

There's a thread somewhere called "this is my x number post, ask me anything?" (or something close to that) I think its by ISF of spoon or one of the other well respected regs here. There's a section in it where the question was asked - "If you were to teach someone poker, what topics would you have them study and in what order?". The answer maybe quite useful to you as it would give you a solid path of learning. I tried to find it but have failed maybe someone else knows what i'm on about..

anyway, I'm going to outline a plan of action for you, most of which has probably been said before. Follow it and you'll get better fast.

Your preflop leaks are a discipline issue. Pre-flop strategy is easy, anyone can learn it fast. Applying it consistently isnt necessarily going to happen. Maybe you're mentality is something like "its ok to limp here this once" - ITS NOT. beyond this, I have no idea what mistakes you are making post flop since you're not giving us anymore information about your play.

Based on what I do know, here's what you need to do.

Identify exactly what you're leaks are. Open HEM/PTracker and start filtering out groups of hands. You can look at how you're handling premiums, JJ+ AK, then pp's 22-TT, then say your strong non premiums like AQ KQ, trouble hands, TJ/TQ/QJ/KJ sometimes AJ and Axs.

Look at how you're playing these hands, are you winning with them or losing with them? why? If you made a big score with a trouble hand you still may have made terrible mistakes doing something like limp/calling out of position and making a bad flop play only to catch on the turn. If you're unsure about a situation post it here and ask. You can get a basic gauge here by looking at all the examples of a particular hand. For example, if you have coldcalled 4bb with 10Q 26 times and only made one score of about 10bb then there's a good chance you shouldnt be calling 4bb everytime. You can take this post flop, these kind of hands often lose even when they pair up. thats why your database is going to show more profit with AK that with KJ. or AQ over QJ. your kicker sucks so much that its not worth playing these hands alot of the time.

Further to this, identify whether or not you are playing crap hands like Qx, Jx, unsuited connectors, unsuited aces etc. etc. If you're seeing flops with these under any circumstance other than checking on the bb then just stop it right now or i swear I'll hunt you down with an axe. Strong players with massive databases have shown that you can not win with these hands. YOU CANT WIN WITH THEM (for emphasis because its important)... unless you have a super user account... but you dont so lets move on.

Next, consider starting a blog/operation diary and post in that forum your winnings/losses each week. It's true that its not exhilarating for the world to read tales from 5NL but for you it means telling people that you made stupid mistakes and lost money. For some people this means a sense of accountability, they stop having that "ok this time" mentality because someone better than them is going to read their post and tell them how stupid it was. Likewise, if you can write your story in an interesting way you're going to have people encourage you when your running bad, which will make a difference and remove that "screw poker, its such bullshit" attitude. It will keep you on your game.

Ranges. This is hard to do. Practice while you're playing, and then re analyse your sessions later. I assure you that you will not be able to accurately assess ranges quickly enough to start with so you have to do it away from the table to get better.

Maths. Make sure you can calculate equity and pot odds, practice it. I don't personally think that I'll ever be able to stove a range and punch bet/(bet+pot) through a calc fast enough to be able to do it all the time when multitabling. But here's the thing, the more you do it, the more you get to have a feel for the strength of your range vs villains range and the better you can make quick and rough but close enough calculations in your head. Its not going to be that often that a call is so marginal that you need to calculate the equity and call with 32.4% when you need to have 32.3.

Physics and discipline. -
TAKE YOUR HAND OF THE MOUSE. I'll bet you make subconscious decisions to call bets because you're fast mouse finger is right there and the mouse is right over action button. Its easier to stop this if the physical action required is greater. It will give you time to consider the decision your making and make the right move. Ask yourself "why?" everytime you do something, and if you can't back it up with good reasoning either don't do it or don't do it.

lastly, I'm going to lunch and dont have time to write anymore... Final point.. actually do it.

Tnks very much man,this was a really great post for me :clap: You point most of me leaks and you made some good suggestion.I was thinking about a blog for months,but like you said i belive that people are not very curious about a blog at 2NL.....but i will make it very soon any way.

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Originally Posted by scott_owen

There's a thread somewhere called "this is my x number post, ask me anything?" (or something close to that) I think its by ISF of spoon or one of the other well respected regs here. There's a section in it where the question was asked - "If you were to teach someone poker, what topics would you have them study and in what order?". The answer maybe quite useful to you as it would give you a solid path of learning. I tried to find it but have failed maybe someone else knows what i'm on about..
.

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i remember the post you're talking about. it's either here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...se-178944.html

or here

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ng-154939.html

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Originally Posted by rpm

i remember the post you're talking about.

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:clap:

thought you might, i think i may have seen it after browsing your thread full of threads.

tnks very much rpm for links

i have made a blog finally.http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2035125

Advice: Don't shake more than three times or you're playing with it.