2nl AJo in BB 3-way, facing turn shove

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 101.5 BB
CO: 237.5 BB (VPIP: 27.84, PFR: 21.95, 3Bet Preflop: 10.42, Hands: 379)
BTN: 141.5 BB (VPIP: 72.41, PFR: 17.24, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
SB: 102.5 BB (VPIP: 25.64, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 39)

ok, BU is a fish, don't know a lot about SB.

pre: I decide to flat his 3b cause i wanna be in hand with fish, and i could prob flat here sometimes w/ AJo anyway.

flop , i call w/ some equity with gutter hoping bu is coming too,...mistake?

turn: Now we have good equity and a lot of implied odds, so when sb checks i bet hoping to get raised, which I do, now I feel like I'm good calling here ... AM I???

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:spade: A:heart:

fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, SB raises to 6 BB, Hero calls 5 BB, BTN calls 4 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 3 players) 9:heart: Q:diamond: 8:spade:
SB bets 8.5 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB, BTN calls 8.5 BB

Turn: (43.5 BB, 3 players) K:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets 20.5 BB, BTN calls 20.5 BB, SB raises to 88 BB and is all-in,

Fold every street.

Thoughts on 4 betting pre here? Also why are we folding preflop to such a small 3 bet IP?

Not much good can come from flatting imo. Fish will always call, you won't ever even have position and you shouldn't call a cb light (even though you did) with a player behind.

Seems like a reasonable spot to cold 4b pre (with plan of folding a jam).

I'm folding pre. It's a 5 BB call, and the PFR is yet to act, leaving the possibility of being squeezed. We don't know enough about SB to know if he's 3betting light.

4betting might have some value here, I certainly prefer it to calling.

Regardless, pre flop is probably close whatever we do, but calling the flop is awful. I tend to fold my gutshots out of habit, but I'll occasionally float where I have a gutshot to the nuts, and a backdoor flush draw to the nuts. Neither apply here.

Turn is butchered to hell. Why do we have implied odds? What happens if we make our hand? What does the board look like? Do you think villain will pay off a big bet when we have a one-card straight and put all our money in?

I think you're confused as to what implied odds are. Implied odds are an attempt to quantify how much money we think villain will put into the pot on future streets when we make our hand. In this case it's somewhere in the region of three times the square root of fuck all.

As for your suggestion we have the odds to call the turn, no we certainly do not. This is easy maths, you should cacluclate the probability of making a hand and the amount of money we make when we do hit, compared to the amount of money we lose when we don't. This is what you need to do to understand just how easy the turn is to fold, and how bad your flop call was.

4b calling off really depends on sizing, but I doubt we're gonna see much 99-TT jamming here at these stakes.

I'd assume JJ+, AQs+ 5b jamming and maybe even tighter than that. I don't have stove right now but given a sizing of 2bb->6bb->14bb, I'm assuming we're not getting correct pot odds to call off.

OK so i butchered this hand from the start.

And i do know what implied odds are. I guess i just figured i might get them both to come if i hit the river. But yeah looking at it now it's definitely bad.

Was being a bit stubborn in this hand.

But exactly why i started back at 2nl. I know i need so much work on my game

After stoving:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.140% 27.01% 01.13% 18037671 753854.50 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 71.860% 70.73% 01.13% 47234476 753854.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }

You would need to 4b all sorts of huge to justify any 4b call off here. By my calculations if we make it 14bb and he rips over we would need 42.6% to call off. Even if we made this huge like 26 (which we would never do), we would still need 36.8% to call this off.

Fold pre > 4b/fold pre > cold call imo.

What if any hands should we be 4bet/folding?

AK for sure, maybe QQ, certainly JJ/AQs if we 4bet it, and our bluffs, if we have any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bucket

What if any hands should we be 4bet/folding?

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Based on my post above we need about 40% (pending our sizing) to 4b call off. So play around with pokerstove and see what hands meet this 40% value vs a 5b shoving range of likely QQ+, AK (maybe a few combos of JJ and AQs). If we don't have 40% we should 4b/fold.

If you're asking we should choose to 4b knowing we will fold after. Ax for blockers is not bad. something like AQ is pretty good as it blocks AA/AK/QQ.