There's No Place Like Home

http://www.tabroom.org/poker/NoPlaceLikeHome.jpg
In addition to my quest to see "How High Can I Get" in the game of poker, I've decided to document one of my lifelong dreams and aspirations: to own my own house AND pay off that mortgage. I feel like a key component to building wealth is to PAY OFF THE HOUSE. If you look @ the average American household, the house or rent payment usually takes the lion's share of all the bills - it's 36% of my total bills and the next highest is food @ only 11%. Sadly most people don't pay off their mortgage early and end up paying 2 to 3 times the value of the house in interest. Without a house payment, you can save money and build wealth so you don't have to work into your 50's and 60's unless YOU want to. Plus, when you pay off your house, you don't run the risk of LOSING your house - 100% of home foreclosures are suffered by people WITH a mortgage :) If you're in the camp of people who think having a mortgage is a good thing because of the tax deduction and because you can use the extra money to invest on something that might make a higher % than the interest rate, we'll just have to agree to disagree because I completely disagree with that line of thought.

For my personal situation, I bought my house on January 1, 2003 for $145,000 but put $29,000 down or 20% for a total mortgage or debt of $116,000 on a 30 year fixed rate @ 5.75% interest. I do not have an escrow account and handle my taxes and insurance separately, so my house payment is $676.94 per month. To date, I have not made any extra payments, but DO have money saved up solely for the purpose of paying towards the house. The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on making extra payments is because the economy is so bad and being single, I'd really rather hold on to the money in case a disaster happens and I lost my job and couldn't find a comparable one to replace it.

Starting on 01/01/2010, my mortgage debt was $103,690.97 and I would like to have it paid off by 12/31/2011 in basically two years. If I continue to not make any official extra payments, my debt will naturally decrease down to $99,122.01 by then through standard payments, so I need to raise that much extra money in two years. I have about $30k saved that I could use towards the house, so that brings my debt down to about $77k. To do it in two years, I'd need to save an extra $2.9k per month over that interval.

For this first year, my target is to save up $1,200 per month and continue to develop my poker game and make $25k for the year in poker, which is already one of my side goals. I don't plan to use any poker money made this year towards my house. I hope to use that money to continue to fund my live bankroll and online bankroll and move up the stakes so that @ the end of 2011, I can start to bank income from poker for the first time. In 2011, I'll continue to save $1,200 per month but will then need to find a way to fund the rest of the money, which is $40k for that year, towards the house payoff.

What I think will make this challenge interesting is that while I can probably save more than $1,200 per month for two years on my own WITH my day job WITHOUT poker, I don't think I'll be able to find the full $40k extra without SOMETHING ELSE. I'll need poker or some other extra income to make up that much ground so quickly. The real "goal" is to pay off my house WELL before 30 years. My target is to do it before 2012 or 9 years from when I bought it.

So, my general targets to help me accomplish this are:

- Keep my day job and save AT LEAST $1,200 per month for two years -> $28,800
- Keep my $30k savings to be used towards the house debt
- In 2010, continue to develop my poker game, build my online and live bankroll, and move up the stakes as best I can
- In 2011, through my day job, poker income, poker bankroll, or any other means necessary and possible, raise and save an additional $40k along with the $28.8k and $30k from above to pay off final outstanding balance of $99,122.01 by 12/31/2011

*NOTE: any money borrowed AGAINST my physical live or online bankroll would be paid back as available starting in 2012 through $1,200 per month savings PLUS the $676.94 house payments I won't have

I hope this goal will be a healthy and fun way to motivate me to budget, save, and spend wisely during the next two years plus motivate me to continue to have fun with poker while also working hard at it and trying to be as successful as I can. I don't plan to go on "beans and rice" during the next year or go completely crazy, but I do want to be frugal, smart, reasonable while still having fun when I can.

I plan to pop in from time to time with saving updates and possibly look at hourly rate snapshots from poker plus any other extra income or notable savings and cost lines.

I will definitely be following this.

Real-life BRM ftw.

Good luck dude, this should be pretty awesome. :) It's always nice to see someone that has a goal in mind and is taking the proper steps to accomplish it.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for your day job? How old are you?

Thanks. I'm 34 and my day job is partly electrical engineering and partly computer programming. The cool thing is that I have freelanced as a computer programmer on the side for extra money in the past and my poker wage is starting to get close to my freelance wage.

dude, all sounds good above. I'd be tempted to smash some of that cash straight into the mortgage and watch interest drop, but i understand the risk-benefit of cash and jobs right now.

i like the idea of repaying the debt to your poker bankroll after the house is freehold. Conceptually - that's pleasant.

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Originally Posted by Jason

Thanks. I'm 34 and my day job is partly electrical engineering and partly computer programming. The cool thing is that I have freelanced as a computer programmer on the side for extra money in the past and my poker wage is starting to get close to my freelance wage.

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sounds familiar
32, when i feel like a day job partly business analysis, partly data-stuff.

electrical engineering huh, i'm currently reading "teach yourself electricity and electronics" and "power systems engineering". A fair distance from ba in math and bs in ecology....

This looks like it'll be a really great operation to follow. Best of luck pwning that mortgage :D It's something very few people will ever be able to do by the sounds of the general populations spending habits/income etc.

http://www.Tabroom.Org/poker/budget.jpg

I have a detailed monthly budget to help me stay on track. This is a culmination of a year's worth of expenses broken down into a monthly average. Many expenses like insurance, gifts, and car maintenance don't hit every month, but I still have a snapshot of what I would need to put aside on a monthly basis to have a balanced budget by year's end. According to this, I should easily be able to put aside my original monthly goal of $1,200 and still have an extra $600 or so to stash with it. Hopefully I'll be able to do that more times than not or at least see how closely the theory matches actual results. But, unexpected money expenses seem to come up all the time, from the "leaky faucet" to a "fraggle-stick car", so my $400 monthly "blow" hedge may be sufficient some months and not others.

At the end of the fiscal 1st quarter, I have successfully saved up $3,600 or $1,200 per month as planned plus about $175 of interest that money has been earning. It's not much, but it counts and since I only plan to keep the money tucked away for less than two years, I can't afford to put it anywhere else to invest like mutual funds as it would be too risky. I LOVE mutual funds, but don't think you should not invest money there unless you can leave it alone for at least 5 years.

I've been keeping an eye on my poker hourly rate because it is a key component to earning extra income. It can be a little tricky to figure based on bonuses. But, at the tables, my hourly has been jumping between $20 and $30 per hour. It's currently sitting @ $25 an hour. That part is easy since Hold'Em Manager automatically keeps track of it. I am aiming and hoping to hit Double Nova for the year. If successful, that would net me $13,399.70 - $1,000 Stellar + $4,400 milestones + $7,999.70 FPP$. This year, I have been averaging 18 hours of poker play per week. So, my expected hourly rate on bonus money would be $14.32 per hour or $13,399.70/(18 hours * 52 weeks in a year). Adding those two numbers together puts my earn @ $40.32 per hour. Now, that ONLY includes time @ the tables, not study time or any lost money due to traning sites, books, etc. I figure all the enjoyment poker brings me MORE THAN pays for all of that :)

For comparison, I decided to see how much my day job hourly wage was ONLY when I was working. I took my GROSS salary and divided it by all actual WORKING days, which is 365 days LESS all weekends, holidays, and vacation days. From that, I figured it was $40.41 per hour compared to $39.32 per hour poker wage. Day job still wins overall by a wide margin because the money is consistent with no variance or UIGEA or stigma and it comes with a 401k, health benefits, and more. Not to mention I think the poker fun factor would go way down once it became a job. HOWEVER, it is definitely reassuring and encouraging that the two are so comparable plus the year is not over and I hope to continue to get better, improve, refine, and move up both in stakes and hourly rate.

Moving into the second quarter of the year, I'm just going to focus on saving a minimum of $3,600 or $1,200 in each of the next three months plus any extra credit I can muster. Hopefully I can avoid any major unplanned expenses and not go crazy during my trips to St. Louis and Vegas in April and June respectively. Unfortunately, I didn't really save much extra in the first quarter due to all of the big hit items I mentioned earlier. I think the second and third quarter are my best opportunities to stash extra money away because 4th quarter has some big hits like Christmas and car and house insurance due.

Sounds like a great goal and a good plan.
If I were in your spot with the house money in the bank waiting to be used for hourse or emergency/job situation/economic meltdown, I would consider this.
What if you picked a number that represented 3 months worth of what your income is today with your job. Doesn't matter what that amount is. Save up to or keep up to that much aside. You could surely adjust your situation/find a new job in 3 months couldn't you? Then dogpile whatever you're saving above that amount onto the mortgage. Here's why, in just 2010 you'll pay well well over $5k in interest. What if you could knock that down significantly? It would shorten that extra $40k you're looking to find and ofcourse you'd save even more on the interest for next year.
I understand the need for financial stability and security. Just a suggestion.

Yeah, if I wasn't so paranoid, it would be an easy decision. I just did some math. If I make no extra payments, I'll spend $9,695.49 on interest. If I took $30k today and put it towards the house and made no other extra payments, I'd pay $6,685.78 in interest instead. That's a $3,009.71 savings. I'll definitely consider it more because that's hard to ignore, but I'll need to have a lot saved up because the economy IS bad. I know people who have had trouble getting jobs @ the most basic of places like Wal-Mart and McDonald's, let alone some place that will pay well. It's just the fact that I'm single and the only one paying these bills and I see horror story scenarios where I lose my job, don't have my extra money, can't find a job, and then get foreclosed on. It's all highly unlikely, but it's what runs through my mind.

I'll give it some serious thought. I'll probably put away 6 months of expenses AND keep my poker money and use that as cushion and just pull the trigger on the rest.

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Originally Posted by Jason

Yeah, if I wasn't so paranoid, it would be an easy decision. I just did some math. If I make no extra payments, I'll spend $9,695.49 on interest. If I took $30k today and put it towards the house and made no other extra payments, I'd pay $6,685.78 in interest instead. That's a $3,009.71 savings. I'll definitely consider it more because that's hard to ignore, but I'll need to have a lot saved up because the economy IS bad. I know people who have had trouble getting jobs @ the most basic of places like Wal-Mart and McDonald's, let alone some place that will pay well. It's just the fact that I'm single and the only one paying these bills and I see horror story scenarios where I lose my job, don't have my extra money, can't find a job, and then get foreclosed on. It's all highly unlikely, but it's what runs through my mind.

I'll give it some serious thought. I'll probably put away 6 months of expenses AND keep my poker money and use that as cushion and just pull the trigger on the rest.

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There is always poker as a backup plan :)

And I just want to say your other operation is such an inspiration.

That interest seems a bit high - didn't you say your mortgage was $103k and interest was 5.75%? Seems like that'd be around 6k ish? Or were you counting for two years?

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Originally Posted by Kijjo

That interest seems a bit high - didn't you say your mortgage was $103k and interest was 5.75%? Seems like that'd be around 6k ish? Or were you counting for two years?

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Yeah, it's 5.75%, I calculated the interest I would pay from 04/01/2010 to 12/31/2011 (21 months) if I paid nothing extra and compared that to if I put in $30k now but nothing else for that $3k savings figure I quoted.

Notice how heavily weighted the percent of interest is towards the lender's favor in the beginning. Add up ALL of the interest in the interest column if you go through the entire 30 years not paying it off early. I'd end up paying $127,700.02 on a $116,000.00 loan - a 110% payoff for the lender and extra debt for me :(

That's just ANOTHER reason of many to get it paid off ASAP.

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Originally Posted by CBAT

There is always poker as a backup plan

And I just want to say your other operation is such an inspiration.

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Thanks, I'm glad you and some others have enjoyed it. I don't think I've done anything that a lot of other players haven't already done plus a LOT I haven't done, however, I think one thing I've done that others may not have is simply document the progression well from start to present.

Yeah, I've thought about poker as a back-up plan, and as appealing as that sounds, unfortunately, I don't have a long history of making money yet and the future of poker is always uncertain, so I don't think it would be wise of me to just say I could fall back on it and everything would be fine. BUT, at least it is becoming much more viable of an option than it was when I started @ $2NL :)

Hopefully this journey will inspire some peeps, too. No matter how successful you are @ the poker felt or your day job, bad real life bankroll management will hold you back from reaching great heights. :cool:

You have done something others have not done if I remember correctly.

You have never had to drop down in stakes. True?

Heh, thx. Yes, true, but I'm only @ $200NL and I'm pretty sure several if not many players here and elsewhere have done that. :) But, don't get me wrong, I AM thankful so far since most general poker players don't win at all as mandated by simple poker economics, let alone move up several stakes. I just think it's important to keep it in perspective. If I could make it to $1K NL and beyond and demonstrate 2bb/100 + win-rates over 100k plus samples, then I might feel like maybe I'm doing something right :D The grass is always greener - we're all just trying to be Phil Ivey.

I'd also say the vast credit of my success as far as not dropping down thus far is sticking to strict bankroll management in poker AND real life and less so due to any poker specific acumen. When I move up a stake, I have 10 full buy-ins to succeed before I have to drop PLUS a history of success of winning at LEAST 30 buy-ins @ the previous stake. Because I have a reasonable day job and have saved up money and stayed out of debt, I've never had the need or pressure to withdraw, which further helps me @ the felt because I can just treat the chips as chips and think of everything in terms of big blinds and not "oh em gee, that $150 3 bet from the big blind could be this month's car payment?!!?"

i am rooting for this as well. having been homeless i know how important it is to have a spot to call your own. i also know the sheer terror that is felt as you lose everything and find yourself getting kicked by the cops at 1am while you are sleeping telling you that even though it's raining you can't sleep where you are sleeping and write you a $300 ticket to top it all off.

I finally pulled the trigger. The check is in the mail - $20k to be exact with the words "PRINCIPLE ONLY" in big red letters :) That brings my mortgage down from $102,965.41 to $82,965.41 in one big swoop.

With that payment ALONE, I will save $2k by 12/31/2011 if I hadn't sent it in. I also plan to send in at least $1,200 I save every month which will save me an additional $1,200 in interest or $3,200 total. Plus, I've decided to start withdrawing from my poker account any excess funds past $10k. If I end up falling down or needing more cushion, I'll either redeposit or just stop withdrawing. And, again, as I mentioned in my original post, any poker funds used towards the house will be repaid as needed if needed.

I'm going to make sure I have 6 months of expenses which is $15k directly in my checking/savings account at all times. Any significant excess money collected there through natural savings or from excess poker funds will also be thrown @ the house after the end of the month.

I got a small raise 3% merit increase @ work which is scheduled to be reflected in my next paycheck. It should help offset the large, extra taxes I will be withholding this year for tax purposes.

Very very nice Jason. A hand well played in real life.

this may sound like heresy , but have done any calculations to see what level is your max until the house is paid. By this I mean that having your bankroll tied up on a site earning no interest , compared to having part online /part in interest account compared to staying at a stake and regularly withdrawing to pay off the house and keep that interest payment reducing instead of using those profits to grow your bankroll and move up.

At some point as you move up your bankroll is going to be larger than the outstanding mortgage, do you take the bankroll hit and pay off the house and drop back down or try to stay at a stake and use winnings to pay the house off slower.

Are there any penalties in the mortgage Terms and conditions for early repayment?

I think the amount of interest he would save at the point where his bankroll is larger would be negligible, like in the low hundreds when he's taking in over $2k/month. If that's the case then it wouldn't be worth wiping out your br.

Well, the way I look at it is that my bankroll is a tool to make me money @ poker. At the moment, poker is making me around $40 an hour. The interest I make in my money market account IS negligible compared to whatever saved house interest I would have and ESPECIALLY compared to whatever decreased poker hourly I might subject myself to.

The second quarter is over as is half of the year. As I already stated, I started the quarter off by sending in a $20k extra payment towards my house. I followed that up over the next two months with an extra $3,600. So, when you factor in this month's July mandatory monthly payment that was immediately and automatically deducted from my account, my outstanding mortgage is sitting @ $78,505.93. It's fun to watch the percent of my payment that goes to interest decrease with the extra payments. At the start of the year, 73.5% of every house payment went towards loan interest and only 26.5% went to the principle balance. After making these extra payment, my July house payment saw only 55.8% go towards interest and 44.2% go towards principle. It never ceases to amaze me how much interest the banks get from loans like these. If I let the mortgage play out for 30 years without sending in one payment, I'd end up spending $127,700.02 of JUST interest on a $116,000 loan. That's a pretty sweet +EV move for the banks.

Now that my Vegas trip is over, I am hoping there won't be any or at least minimal major expenses till later this year when Christmas rolls around. I think I've done a decent job of cutting down my eating out. I used to eat out for lunch every day @ work and now I'm brown bagging it. Groceries have been getting expensive as I try to eat healthy and really enjoy items like Morning Star veggie burgers and they aren't cheap. It's ironic that many healthy items cost a lot more than junk food. I'll probably look into clipping coupons to help with that. I've been pretty good at delaying purchases of things I'd like but can do without like a new PC and bigger bedroom TV. Unfortunately, my girlfriend is wanting some expensive things like a new bed and a sectional sofa for the living room and it's a little more difficult to tell her 'no'. However, I've told her we can get something cheap now or wait a while and get something nice and I think that's working.

Pokerwise, I had a couple of down months (April, May) that wrecked my hourly when PokerStars changed their cash game structures and I ended up switching from Stars to Tilt. At the moment, I've been able to get my hourly back to close to $40 per hour from playing @ Tilt. Although, I am starting to realize that obtaining a steady hourly poker wage may be more theoretical than practical. I do like to keep a casual eye on it just to get an idea if making enough money from poker next year to make up any deficit on my mortgage is possible.

My goal over the next quarter is to simply send in the minimum $1,200 per month ($3,600 total) and any extra funds I can raise or get my hands on. Obviously, continuing to develop as a poker player and make money there would be nice, too, and eventually help my goals here.

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Originally Posted by Jason

73.5% of every house payment went towards loan interest and only 26.5% went to the principle balance. After making these extra payment, my July house payment saw only 55.8% go towards interest and 44.2% go towards principle.

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that drawing of poker $$ into the mortgage is already paying dividends!!

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Originally Posted by Jason

Groceries have been getting expensive as I try to eat healthy and really enjoy items like Morning Star veggie burgers and they aren't cheap. It's ironic that many healthy items cost a lot more than junk food. I'll probably look into clipping coupons to help with that. .

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making veg burgers from first principles is cheap, satisfying, and incredibly fast once you've done it a couple of times. Make a big batch, free flow freeze them, ez game.

Man this is sick and something I hope to be able to do in the future.

I just graduated with an engineering degree so I can relate somewhat to your current situation. I'll be starting my full time job in a little while and my plan was to pay off student loans while living as cheap as possible (and maybe I can manage it as well as you're managing your mortgage :)).

How do you not have impulse buys on shit you probably don't need? This would be a huge leak for me with that much cash laying around.

Anyway, good luck with your goals irl and poker.

I'm 34 now, but I also had a student loan when I graduated @ 20. I bought a new car, which was a mistake in hindsight, but not as big of a mistake as other people make with other decisions like getting a credit card and buying things without cash. After I paid the $17k car off in ~2 years, I focused on my $10k or so student loan which I paid off in ~year. Those were the only two debts I've had EXCEPT in 2005, that car broke down and I bought another new car ~$25k car that I paid off in ~ a year which was also a mistake in hindsight to buy a new car. You really shouldn't buy a new car unless you have several hundred thousand in the bank because you lose so much value in the car once you drive it off the lot. One thing I did during that earlier time after college graduation which many people don't do was continue living at home, so my expenses were low, but I still could have done well on my own - it just would have taken longer.

I did have more of an inclination to impulse buy when I was younger in my mid-20's. I'd surf the Internet and come across something and think, "Hey, I want that" and just buy it. Sometimes they were smaller items around $200 or less, but sometimes they cost more. I don't think I was irresponsible, but I did begin to realize it was more impulsive than it should be, so I started working to reduce all impulse buys and sleep on those decisions more. Now that I'm so focused on a clear cut goal like paying off my house, it's much easier not to impulse buy because I know the adverse affect it will have achieving my goal. Every little bit helps, so if I don't need to spend it, I'd much rather throw it at the mortgage.

Anway, thanks for the well wishes and good luck to you, too.

It's been a while since I updated this goal, but I DID want to check in and do so. For starters, I got a little off track for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that I got burnt out on poker last August, which depleted some extra income I had originally counted on. I had hoped I would just keep on trucking and put myself in a position to make 30k or so on poker in 2011. Because I stopped playing, though, I'll probably be lucky to get back on track and make ~ $10k as I did the past two years. As if that weren't enough, I'm dating this girl and if all goes to plan, I hope to get married in 2012, which will mean some big expenses related to a ring, wedding, and honeymoon. While THAT is actually very good news, for financial goals, it's technically a setback, but a good one ;)

Long story short, the house definitely won't be paid off in 2011 and 2012 might not be enough time either. BUT, it's still just as much of a goal as ever and I'm going to do all I can to make it happen sooner rather than later and I'm not totally ruling out 12/31/2012 as a payoff date, but a lot of things will probably need to go my way for that to happen.

So, what was I able to do? I made a large extra $20k payment in April 2009. I made a nice $3.6k extra payment in June. A modest extra $2k was paid in July and finally $2.4k extra was paid in September. That's $28,000 extra thrown at the mortgage in 2010. At the START of 2010, my mortgage was $103,690.97 and at the end of 2010, my mortgage was sitting at $72,504.56. If I could keep my original goal for 2010 ongoing into 2011 of $1200 extra per month, it would get knocked down to $53,658.71 by year's end.

Fortunately, I'm playing poker again, although I've had to take two steps back and it'll be a while before I'm back to form assuming I can even get back to form. Also, I should get back a nice tax refund since my poker income didn't come to fruition as planned and I was witholding as if it would come so I would owe nothing. I can also withdraw some excess bankroll that has me overrolled. So, it's not all bad news.

Also, a lot of my success is tied to my girlfriend and her ability to get out of debt and help with some of these expenses. Unfortunately, she is still getting out of debt so she can't jump in feet first yet, but fortunately she's on schedule to be out of it this year and basically all of her paycheck could then be used towards all these other goals.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get the ball rolling in the right direction again. There's so many things we want to do with our money that we can do after her debt is gone and my house is paid. Number 1 on my list and HERS is a brand new poker room in my house :smile:

Stay tuned ...

Jason I never saw this op before so I read through it. Graet op even though you got a little off track. I admire your desire to be debt free. You're very wise to have not gotten in to credit cards and all that crap.
Are you familiar with Dave Ramsey? He's a personal finance guy who preachs debt free living. He has a great book out called "Total Money Makeover" and it's really good. You may want to check in to it for your GF.
Good luck and please keep this updated periodically!

Oh yes, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Dave Ramsey and he is a big reason I'm so focused and motivated to get completely out of debt. The girlfriend has been introduced to him by me as well. I've listened to the 'Total Money Maker' on audio at least 4 or 5 times and she listened to it once with me on a trip once. I highly recommend that book, his radio show, and all of his advice as it relates to money and personal finance.

I enjoy this thread. And I'm starting to look at houses = i may even be able to identify even more closely with it. Although i'll probably do it without getting a job, not sure how having a mortgage to play will affect my poker mindset though....

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Originally Posted by Jason

I hope to get married in 2012, which will mean some big expenses related to a ring, wedding, and honeymoon.

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congratulations. I never really understand why a ring should be a BIG expense - what are her views on this? malleable? Like, i'm not sure what sort of numbers you're talking here - but vs her being debt-free, or having another big mortgage chunk paid, or.....

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Originally Posted by Jason

I made a large extra $20k payment in April 2009. I made a nice $3.6k extra payment in June. A modest extra $2k was paid in July and finally $2.4k extra was paid in September. That's $28,000 extra thrown at the mortgage in 2010.

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awesome, nh sir.

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Originally Posted by Jason

At the START of 2010, my mortgage was $103,690.97 and at the end of 2010, my mortgage was sitting at $72,504.56. If I could keep my original goal for 2010 ongoing into 2011 of $1200 extra per month, it would get knocked down to $53,658.71 by year's end.

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which is getting into super-easy to pay off territory, every payment is dominated by equity-payments vs interest payments = you'll be freehold in no time. Especially if you can throw two incomes at it for some time in 2012. Awesome.

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Originally Posted by daven

I never really understand why a ring should be a BIG expense - what are her views on this? malleable? Like, i'm not sure what sort of numbers you're talking here - but vs her being debt-free, or having another big mortgage chunk paid, or.....

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Ya, I hear ya ... she and I differ on this particular issue. She feels like she will wear the ring forever and it symbolizes our love and she'd rather have a nice ring than a nice wedding or honeymoon. I, on the other hand, would rather spend more money on the wedding or honeymoon because those are experiences and memories. But, I'm sure we'll manage either way ... we'll just have to work a little harder. I challenged her and me to make an extra 5k extra each this year than we would have normally made. As Dave would say, we need to be 'Gazelle' intense :)

Jason I'm trying to remember what Dave Ramsey says about rings and I'll be honest I was surprised when I heard him. I expect him to say something like "No more than one weeks wages" or similar but it was actually like 2 months. I really recommend shopping big time when it comes to the ring since they are typically marked up about 300%. I worked with a fella a few years back who went the route of buying the diamond from a broker and then had it set. It was amazing and very inexpensive.

@daven if you are not familiar with Dave Ramsey check him out for sure!

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Originally Posted by daven

which is getting into super-easy to pay off territory, every payment is dominated by equity-payments vs interest payments = you'll be freehold in no time. Especially if you can throw two incomes at it for some time in 2012. Awesome.

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That's a good point. When my mortgage first started, 82 cents of every dollar I paid of my regular payments went straight to the bank's pocket in the form of interest. Now, only 51 cents of every dollar goes to the bank, so my regular payments are having a more profound effect and don't feel as meaningless. If I could manage $1200 extra per month every month, the house would be paid off July 2014. ABOVE that, I'd have to find $14k extra to make it by 12/31/2013 or $35k to make it by 12/31/2012.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to make any extra payments on my house so far as I expected. On the plus side, I did just get my usually annual merit increase at my day job. This time it was 3%, so every bit helps. I'm still saving up to buy an engagement ring and I think I just about have what I'll need. I'm not actually going to buy the ring when I propose, so if she takes a few weeks or so to find exactly what she wants, that'll give me more time to keep saving up more.

I told my girlfriend at the beginning of the year that I wanted to challenge both of us to make $5k extra EACH this year above and beyond our normal day jobs. I'm using poker and she's allowed to use overtime at her job because she normally doesn't take any or use any or she can also get a second job. We've both passed the 1k mark and, although I haven't explicitly told her and I think she may have already figured it out, I plan on using that $10k that we will hopefully succeed in raising towards the wedding. Either her or I or both will have to raise enough extra for ther honeymoon, which I imagine could also be upwards of $10k. Heh, love is expensive ;)

My girlfriend is very close to getting out of debt, which started around at LEAST $15k, probably much more on credit cards, student loans, and who knows what else? The ETA for her to be out of debt at the moment is August and I've been challenging her to do it sooner if she can. Once she takes care of that and hopefully stays with the plan, I feel like she could raise the Honeymoon money on her own. Then, by next year, after we've spent all the money, paid in cash, on a ring, wedding, and honeymoon, we should have a combined $120k income per year (not counting poker or her overtime) with no debt EXCEPT the mortgage, which will be sitting around $67k by then. Needless to say, I hope it SHOULDN'T take long to knock it out. That's the plan ...

So, most of this year, along with this thread, will be focused:

- Me raising $5k
- Her raising $5k
- Her getting out of debt and raising 6 months of expenses as an emergency fund
- Her, me, us raising honeymoon money

But, if I can have the kind of poker year I want to have and if my girlfriend takes care of her business, I may be in a position to throw a little bit of money at the house this year. I'll have to wait and see, though.

At the end of last month, from poker, I had raised $1,478.06 which is 30% of the goal. She has raised $1,091.31 which is 22%. She has $7k of debt left which are all student loans.

Here's a graph:
http://www.tabroom.org/poker/SalTn.gif

It's pretty smooth. No variance. And I'm proud it's closing in on ONE MILLION dollars :) Between my raise and playing poker, it crossed my mind to chart my day job salary over the years. The result is the graph above. As much as I like poker and love the extra income, it's hard to ignore that graph. So, for anyone else thinking about quitting your day job, maybe do the same exercise and see what you come up with. 'No downswings' is an excellent job perk ;)

But how much did you lose?

Haha, very nice Jason!

Heh, after recent developments, that straight, steady graph looks even nicer right about now. :) ... grr, though about poker.

I just found this blog now, as I'm currently negotiating a mortgage/first purchase I've found this very interesting. WIll definitely follow this (if you keep it up after what just went down in the US).

Greetings again ... although my plans and circumstances have changed a bit, I have NOT abandoned this goal. Black Friday happened, which definitely threw a monkey wrench in my plans as I had been making a decent chunk of money via poker and wanted to use some of that towards the house and other goals. The other big change is that I got engaged and spent a NOT-so-insignificant amount towards a ring and we are STILL saving and paying for a nice wedding planned for next April. The wedding is going to be more money than I had previously postulated, but we are still going to pay cash.

So, since August and likely until April, I haven't been throwing much extra at the house, BUT my fiancee is debt free as of October and after the wedding, I am hoping and anticipating that we can BOTH start throwing a lot of money at the house. Currently my mortgage is sitting at $61,504.66. At the end of last year my mortgage was @ $72,504.56 and even though I had wanted to get it down closer to $53k at the end of this year, clearing $12k off it considering I couldn't play poker but for only 4 months and most of that was rebuilding PLUS paying for a nice ring and saving for a wedding, I'm not going to be too tough on myself. The house sold for $145k and I've paid 58% on that. The original loan was $116k and I've paid 52% on that. The house is now worth ~$200k, so I have $139k of equity, which isn't too bad. Keep in mind, I've only lived in my house for 9 years. Most people take out 30 year notes or best case 15 years. I'm hoping I can do it somewhere between 10 and 11 years.

It would make things a LOT easier if I could get my Full Tilt money back. That money would pay for everything I have left to save up for PLUS a few items my fiancee is responsible for and I could start piling up house cash starting in January instead of April. But, the ugly reality is that I may not see any of that money ever again or if I do, it might not be the full amount, and even if it's the full amount, it could be a while, so that's the plan: save for wedding in April and then throw cash like crazy at the house. :smile:

Congrats on your engagement! I think weddings always cost more than they're originally supposed to

^ Thats usually the women's fault i.e bride , bride's mum , brides friends who did xy at their weddings so your wedding now has to have xzy to outdo them . etc etc . groom just sorts out decent suit for the day and turns up for the party and after show entertainment.

oh .....and congrats on engagement Jason

Thanks. I'm probably just as guilty. When you start picking nice things, it's easy to get caught up and want EVERYTHING to be nice. I also just underestimated how much stuff would cost. But, we're basically splitting the bill and paying cash and you only PLAN in advanced to get married once :)

^this is all accurate. it's just easy to underestimate costs.

Long time no see ... being an American, my only thoughts about online poker have been about getting my Full Tilt money. However, I got married in April and the newlywed wife and I are focused on getting the house paid off.

The wedding did hold us back a lot, but it was a fantastic wedding and I think it was worth it.

We did our monthly budget for August and after I send the extra house payment check, the mortgage will be sitting @ $50k. The goal is to try to pay it off by the end of next year. We shall see ...

congrats on your marriage!

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Originally Posted by Jason

getting my Full Tilt money.

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and putting it on the house!

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Originally Posted by Jason

However, I got married in April

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congrats!

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Originally Posted by Jason

the mortgage will be sitting @ $50k. The goal is to try to pay it off by the end of next year. We shall see ...

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do it!
i have a mortgage now too. Need to pay that shit off.

Definitely planning on putting the FTP money towards the house. I have an optimistic view that I can do that in December, but if I end up not getting that money, it'll probably be sometime early 2014 before it's paid ... so I hope the money I earned is given back as I'm sure all of you are hoping as well. :)

2012 is winding down. Marriage with an expensive wedding (paid for in cash, though) and no regulated, legalized, online poker since Black Friday has set this goal back a bit, but it's still a top priority. We had a good month in November partly due to my wife getting three paychecks in a month that had 5 Fridays. On the 15th of this month, I'll get paid and have enough to plop down a big extra mortgage payment - the biggest one since I started throwing extra money at it. That'll bring my mortgage down to $39,768.56. The goal is to pay it off before the end of 2013. We shall see what happens.

Go! Go! Go! I just started paying a mortgage with my fiancé...houses are expensive, especially since we don't have any tenants yet (bought a 2 family). Hopefully will have tenants soon, which will let us throw extra money at the mortgage also. Trying to save for the wedding now. $ is tight!

Cheers. Long time no see. My wife's company unfortunately went under and left us without her income for 3 months unexpectedly in the summertime. Despite that, we're on track to pay off the house most likely by the end of January but possibly February of 2014. The mortgage is sitting at $6,645.

I don't want to jinx it, but it looks like this long journey may soon have a happy ending. My wife got a bonus at work we were not expecting this month and after I crunched the numbers, it looks like I will have enough money extra (although just barely) to pay down the mortgage to a balance equal to my regular monthly house payment. I plan to do that Tuesday. Then, on February 1st, my regular house payment should be withdrawn and the mortgage should be at a zero balance.

So, step #1 is to pay that extra money Tuesday, step #2 is to verify the funds are withdrawn and applied before February 1st, step #3 is to make sure the regular payment goes through from February 1st, and step #4 is to make sure that the mortgage goes to 0.

I made the large extra payment on Tuesday and as of today, it's cleared my bank and posted to the account. I only owe my regular $676.95 payment. It looks so sweet. :) ... I did just realize that the complete mortgage will not get knocked out when my regular payment goes through. There will be a small amount around $3.25 that goes to interest plus there is a $12 "recording" fee to close out the mortgage. So, once my regular payment clears, I'll just call the bank and see if they will process that last little bit with a Visa debit card.

I'm almost shaking with excitement and happiness :) No more extra payments and February is my LAST house payment EVER!

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Originally Posted by Jason

No more extra payments and February is my LAST house payment EVER!

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congrats!

i'm looking forward to experiencing that buzz someday in the next few years

Thanks!

We are almost there. Yesterday I saw in my mortgage bank account that the regular mortgage payment DID clear (although, not from my regular bank checking account where the funds originated) and, as expected, left me with a small, nominal $3.24 mortgage PLUS I owe a $15 recording fee to finish the payoff. This morning the funds DID clear my regular checking account.

I called my mortgage bank to attempt to pay off the balance over the phone but they said I could only do it in person at one of their banks or wire transfer or certified check through the mail. The closest bank affiliated with my mortgage is an hour away, so I'm going to attempt to do a wire.

I failed to realize that wire transfers have fees in the $50 range. So, I had to go the cashier's check route. Even using those, I only get one free one a month at my bank, but I rarely ever need or use them, so it's no big deal. The money ($15.23) was immediately taken out of my checking account and I just dropped it off at the post office my mortgage bank in Ohio. I've done all I can do and just have to wait for the snail mail to do its job.

I was at the doctor's office waiting to get my allergy shot Friday 02/07/2014 and tried to log into my mortgage bank account to check the balance. It let me log in, but there was no mortgage account. There was no account at all. I logged on to my Mint.Com account which aggregates all my finances and it couldn't connect to my account there either. That meant it was official. The bank had received and cashed my last payment, closed the account, and the house is all mine. I called my home insurance representative and informed them that the house was paid off and that they should remove the bank from my policy as a beneficiary.

I believe that's all I need to do. The bank should take care of "recording" my deed so that it's not tied to any debt.

Next March when I do my monthly budget with my wife, it'll be the first time we don't have a $700 payment to worry about and that'll continue month after month after month after month. It's a wonderful, empowering feeling.

http://i.imgur.com/BT2SmCl.jpg

I made a web site tool to help you see the power of investing AND paying off your mortgage early:


http://www.tabroom.org/invest/investing.aspx

http://www.tabroom.org/invest/mort.aspx

I have been investing through my company's 401k program and if I didn't add another dime to it, I'd still be living VERY comfortably when I turn 59 and a half and can touch the money without penalty. If you invest just $100, which is NOT that much money if you think about it (2 days working minimum wage), a month when you're 18, you'll have a half million dollars when you're 62.


If you can work hard and pay off your house early and use THAT money to invest in? Wow. It really starts to take off. If we say the average house payment is a $1,000 and you invest a $1,000 a month from the time you're 40, then you'll have a million by the time you're 65.


If THAT doesn't convince you, just think about all the interest you're letting go down the drain when you keep a mortgage.


If I had let my mortgage run its course over 30 years, I would have paid $127k in interest on the loan. The loan was only $116k. I would have paid more money in interest than principle - that's 110% spent on interest. That same mortgage paid on a 15 year note would have only accrued $57k interest or HALF the principle. That's much better, but that is still a lot of money in my book, which is why I plan to never borrow money again. I want my money making money for me - not banks.

There are people who will say it's a bad idea to pay off your house early because you can invest the money. But, there is a major fallacy in that line of reasoning: they don't factor RISK. Although I DO advocate investing, it should be noted that investing has risk involved. Long term, you should make money, but in the short term, it's like playing poker: you go through down swings. 2001-2002 was a downswing in the stock market as was 2008-2009 plus many other random periods in time. Furthermore, having a mortgage is a RISK. You could lose your job and find yourself in a position where you can't pay your mortgage. Losing your home and its equity would be a HUGE financial and personal disaster. So, while I am not adverse to RISK, I AM adverse to RISK on top of RISK, and using money you could be paying off your house with to invest in the stock market is just stupid IMO. Imagine if you NEVER made extra payments and paid off your house in 30 years. Would you immediately take out a 2nd mortgage against your paid off home so you could start investing again? I would hope not and that's the same thing as not paying off your house early IF you can.


I'm obviously very happy and excited and it still doesn't feel real yet. I hope this euphoria lasts a long time.


I would encourage anyone out there to set your goals high. While I do make a decent wage, I am not rich by any means. I've never made more than 5 figures. And, if I had made less money, I just would have bought a smaller house and still paid it off. There's really no excuses. Be disciplined. Live on less than you make. Avoid debt. Have a plan. Stick with it. Make wealth. I highly recommend Dave Ramsey's book "The Total Money Makeover" if you're looking for a detailed plan. I'm now on the last step: STEP 7 build wealth!

nh sir

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Originally Posted by Jason

I plan to never borrow money again. I want my money making money for me - not banks.

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interesting perspective. I agree with most all of what you advocate above bar this ^.

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Originally Posted by Jason

I'm obviously very happy and excited and it still doesn't feel real yet. I hope this euphoria lasts a long time.

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you'll still have the extra $700/month even after the euphoria fades, so either way you'll be able to think on it and smile!

That's true. Not having to part with $700 every month is the gift that never stops giving. :)