Relationship/Money Question

There's a real lack of new threads here recently, so I'll get something started. The following is a fairly interesting scenario that brings up a lot of questions about relationships, money, sexual dynamics and things of that nature. I'm curious to know what you people think.

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I [F26] have been dating Will [M27] for most of 2014; I met him on New Years Eve, we exchanged numbers, scheduled a coffee date and have been seeing each other ever since. He's tall and shy, with long thick hair like Eddie Vedder. He lives in an older house by himself and drives a 1997 Toyota.

He dresses very casually - I don't think he even owns a collared shirt - and all his clothes are minimum 1-2 years old. For income, he told me he "ran a few websites" and picked up piece-work as a 'session guitarist'. He is also very frugal. He never took me out for fancy dinners or anything. In the beginning it was always coffee dates, walks, hikes, etc. If we go out, he insists on 'pre-drinking' and refuses to buy drinks at a bar. Most nights he was content staying in, watching Netflix and playing his guitar.

I never outright asked how much money he made, but given his lifestyle, clothes, furnishings, etc. plus the fact that he rarely worked, I assumed it wasn't much. I would lightly prod him with questions about the future, if he had any career goals - he would say that he "saw me in his future", but also he was "happy the way things were". I have Facebook and am on it every day, usually when work is slow. Lately my newsfeed has been filled with my peers getting married, buying houses, having babies, and other various accolades.

I can't help but feel jealous by this; it seems like everyone but me is making significant gains in their lives and relationships. Three weeks ago, after seeing a girl I knew from high school buy her 3rd property with her husband, it felt like my relationship with Will was juvenile and had no future. The next time I was over at Will's (after he served me potato soup for dinner and was torrenting a documentary for us to watch later) I ended the relationship. I was perfectly honest about everything - he was a great guy, I loved him and his personality, but I felt he lacked career/life ambition and we wanted different things for the future. He sat and listened to everything, seemingly unmoved by it.

When I finished talking, he said "fine by me" and asked me to leave. I went to hug him on my way out, instead he just guided me out the door and slammed it shut behind him. With prior boyfriends, we'd still talk or text a bit after we'd be broken up. Sometimes we'd even still hook up. I dunno, I've just never had a 'bad break-up' and always try to remain on good terms. I haven't heard a fucking word from Will, even after texting him multiple times and calling him once.

I saw two of Wills friends at the gym today. I went over and made small talk, asked how he was, etc. I tried to explain myself, saying he was a great guy but our views on money and the future didn't seem to mesh. To this, one friend chuckled to himself and walked away.

I asked the other friend WTF that's about it, and he says "Yeah, we heard. The thing is, Will's loaded. He inherited his grandpas land which is leased to oil and gas companies. I've seen the quarterly checks he gets and they're more than my yearly salary. Good luck getting him to spend it, though. He has a 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' type mentality. Just look at that piece of shit he drives!"

This has completely baffled and upset me. I dated him for 10 months when I thought he was penniless, proof I'm not a fucking gold-digger. I am a 26 year old woman who needs to be pragmatic, I can't just indefinitely date someone with the future being so uncertain. He could've said something, ANYTHING during our break up when I was explaining my doubts about our relationship.

Instead he said nothing, and now he refuses to talk to me. It makes absolutely no sense. I just feel so low right now. If a man with disposable income meets a woman he likes, doesn't he want to treat her? He said he "saw me in his future", why didn't he care enough to share these things with me? He could have easily kept our relationship alive by being forthcoming. Someone please help me make sense of this situation.

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Owned, basically.

@F26:

You threw away love over a misunderstanding.
Furthermore, you threw away love over the laziness of not wanting to personally provide the future you envision for yourself and your loved one(s).

You just found out that you're a selfishly shallow person, and perhaps a lot more lazy than you would have cared to admit.
May you learn from this mistake and learn to judge people by what they are, and not what they can offer you.

Also learn to provide for your own needs. Learn to provide for more than you need, so that you may support the people you love.

Stop spending so much time on Facebook. And stop judging the quality of your life by comparing it to the outward facade everyone else is showing on Facebook.

Financial stability and social mobility arent incorrect to want. Its that she threw away a 10 month relationship without a second thought. Relationships only work with honest communication, and that wasnt present here. She jumped the gun, and called it quits without trying to work it out how she was feeling.

You might say the guy was dishonest by not telling her of his money...but that assumes things would be different eventually. Like, after 2 years, he'd have "cleared her for gold-digging" and start lavishly spending on gifts. Thats movie drama. Real life, he might just be 'frugal' (or smartly managing a steadily decreasing savings account).

She's right, he's wrong. The guy is clearly a self-centered cunt who understands only his own motivations (if that). She wanted something different and was open and honest about it without being overbearing. He acknowledged only himself. The quality of reasoning it takes to think that somebody in her shoes is being unreasonable is on the same level as if a guy was dating a fat gross smelly bitch who didn't give a fuck that he doesn't want to be with a fat gross smelly bitch. Professor Wugy diagnosis: dude's an egomaniac.

I mostly agree with wuf but I also agree with JKDS that she could have approached it differently -- had a conversation rather than a break-up.

Ultimately it's hard to tell what actually happened. She could be way more materialistic and shallow than she makes herself out to be.

It's important for people in a relationship to be on the same page. I don't give a shit at all what other couples on FB page are doing that are considered traditional and important milestones for a relationship. That's because I am enormously satisfied due to having found someone whose ambitions, values, sensibilities, and lifestyle are aligned with my own. The people she saw on FB reflected fulfillment of desires that I assume she already had. Essentially, she wants the same thing as me: being tuned in.

Also, if we are to take her at face value, I don't think her being too lazy to provide for herself has anything to do with it. It's not like she wants him to be rich so she can luxuriate in the lifestyle. It takes two to tango when it comes to starting a family.

I don't think either of them are in the wrong. It just took ten months for them to figure out they're not right for one another.

Well, she's in the wrong to be bitter. But whatever, we're all bitter with our exes for something, right?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I don't think either of them are in the wrong. It just took ten months for them to figure out they're not right for one another.

Well, she's in the wrong to be bitter. But whatever, we're all bitter with our exes for something, right?

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he's in the wrong for being a creator of problems.

Neither of them really created a problem that led to the end of the relationship. Him ending up having that money doesn't change anything, and it's results-oriented thinking at its best.

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I was perfectly honest about everything - he was a great guy, I loved him and his personality, but I felt he lacked career/life ambition and we wanted different things for the future.

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Nothing about this is wrong, but neither is him handling his money however he damn well pleases.

The only problem I have with her behavior is how she acts entitled to his money and assuming she has some claim on how he spends it.

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

Also, if we are to take her at face value, I don't think her being too lazy to provide for herself has anything to do with it. It's not like she wants him to be rich so she can luxuriate in the lifestyle. It takes two to tango when it comes to starting a family.

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Given that he clearly was not asking her for any money to support his needs, I find this argument to be a bit thin.

If she didn't want to share his lifestyle, then that's another story. It was presented as though the idea that she would have a career and work to support herself and her children was beyond her. It's not like she presented any discussion with Mr. Richkid of her future plans.

Two to tango to start a family? Plenty of single parents out there. I suppose there was a bit of tango at the start, but I don't think that's what you meant.

It's back to a lifestyle choice. Probably not most single parents chose that, but my point is that it only takes one loving adult to provide for children. The rest will work out. Poor people all over the place having kids that grow up and have their own kids. It's about love, not money. If the love is there, then everything else will work out... or not... but life will go on, and you'll be sharing it with someone you love.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

She's right, he's wrong. The guy is clearly a self-centered cunt who understands only his own motivations (if that). She wanted something different and was open and honest about it without being overbearing. He acknowledged only himself. The quality of reasoning it takes to think that somebody in her shoes is being unreasonable is on the same level as if a guy was dating a fat gross smelly bitch who didn't give a fuck that he doesn't want to be with a fat gross smelly bitch. Professor Wugy diagnosis: dude's an egomaniac.

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First -- this is from one person's perspective and she's bound to give a biased account. We don't know what conversations actually happened behind closed doors that prevented him from sharing information about his wealth to her or didn't make him trust her enough yet with that info. Maybe every time she "lightly prodded" him about money/future, he saw it as gold-digging. Different perspectives.

Second -- what problem did he create? He didn't break up with her, and he wasn't the one trying to make contact post-breakup. Even from her biased perspective, she's the one with the ego problem. "I broke up with him and he won't talk to me anymore"? BFD! She broke up with him, he doesn't owe her any more of his time. "I ran into his friends and tried to explain myself"? Why is she trying to turn his friends to her side and against him? She broke up with him, move on!

And the only reason she's complaining now is because she found out that he has money. How does that change the fact that they have completely different views on money and the future?

If this guy had that much money and lived the way he lived, it's because he wanted to live that way. Spending the rest of his life with someone that wanted something completely different? Probably not on his wish list. Kudos to him for making good decisions before ending up in a situation where someone can take half of that away from him.

They're both wrong. I think it's pretty bad to keep that much information from someone you're in a LTR with. There's a whole other question of how long is it okay for him to keep that information to himself, but I think it's clear he waited too long.

On the other hand, she probably could have held out longer instead of just breaking up with him like that. And he could have done something other than just letting her go. It seems quite obvious this relationship wasn't meant to be if everyone was so willing for it to be over just like that. The guy probably was getting bored with her and took the easy out when it was offered, otherwise this might have festered into a waste of five plus years for them both.

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Originally Posted by NightGizmo

First -- this is from one person's perspective and she's bound to give a biased account. We don't know what conversations actually happened behind closed doors that prevented him from sharing information about his wealth to her or didn't make him trust her enough yet with that info. Maybe every time she "lightly prodded" him about money/future, he saw it as gold-digging. Different perspectives.

Second -- what problem did he create? He didn't break up with her, and he wasn't the one trying to make contact post-breakup. Even from her biased perspective, she's the one with the ego problem. "I broke up with him and he won't talk to me anymore"? BFD! She broke up with him, he doesn't owe her any more of his time. "I ran into his friends and tried to explain myself"? Why is she trying to turn his friends to her side and against him? She broke up with him, move on!

And the only reason she's complaining now is because she found out that he has money. How does that change the fact that they have completely different views on money and the future?

If this guy had that much money and lived the way he lived, it's because he wanted to live that way. Spending the rest of his life with someone that wanted something completely different? Probably not on his wish list. Kudos to him for making good decisions before ending up in a situation where someone can take half of that away from him.

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assuming a decent level of veracity with her story, his intention involves misleading. if he cared for her he wouldnt be so okay with her leaving for the reason she did. this reads like a guy who believes the wrong things about gold digging. he's not much different than most men in that regard.

the reason he is in the wrong and she is not boils down to what is ultimately a double standard. what are men attracted to? physical hotness. take that away, and you'd be hard pressed to find a man who would even bother making a woman his partner. what are women attracted to? material hotness. our society expects men to be "dogs" (so much so that we claim we're not dogs when we all truly are), but denigrates women for being gold diggers, which is basically the same thing just for the other gender.

the issue here is that he (subconsciously) is entitled to what he wants from women and she isn't entitled to what she wants from men. the most reasonable thing in the world would be for him to understand that any woman he dates cares about ambition and material, but it appears he has been so deluded by our social norms that he thinks it's cool to neglect this fact and hold it against women.

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Originally Posted by Renton

They're both wrong.

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i dont think she's wrong at all. good riddance of his know-nothing retard ass.

btw im being abrasive with my opinion because i dont have the time i normally do to be diplomatic (to whatever extent i normally possibly might maybe perhaps can be).

plus the situation does irritate me. i do think the guy is a huge doofus.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Nothing about this is wrong, but neither is him handling his money however he damn well pleases.

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this isnt my issue. my issue it that it seems as clear as day that there is a motive behind why he handles it like that. a motive that is purely egocentric.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

what are women attracted to? material hotness.

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This shows a gross misunderstanding of what her issue was, and on a larger scale, a misunderstanding of what women are attracted to.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

btw im being abrasive with my opinion because i dont have the time i normally do to be diplomatic (to whatever extent i normally possibly might maybe perhaps can be).

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Hope you get some rest, buddy. I'm feeling the stress, too, right now.

A bit of advice you can take or leave, but it helps me out immensely:
Charisma is important. It's so important that it should be practiced.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Hope you get some rest, buddy. I'm feeling the stress, too, right now.

A bit of advice you can take or leave, but it helps me out immensely:
Charisma is important. It's so important that it should be practiced.

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I think you just accidentally said one of the key tenets of game (if not *the* key tenet).

With that having been said, don't confuse being polite or liked as being charismatic.

Translation:

"I met this guy who didn't seem to give a shit about whether I was impressed with his income, car or hobbies and I really respected that so I opened my legs for him. I had a great time with him for about a year, until I spent a lot of time on the worlds biggest website for narcissists, listening to all my cunt "friends" telling me about how much shit they didn't need they were buying - I got really embarrased, I "need" a bunch of useless shit to post photos of too - how dare he not give it to me. While I respected and admired him as a person when we first met, and for the first months, I was beginning to think I'd rather change him into a totally different person.

I told him to get fucked. I couldn't believe it, but when I did this, he no longer wanted to put up with me, or any of my shit! What the fuck? I'm so confused, surely like all the other wet losers I'd opened my legs for in the past, he should still have kept giving me attention???

I was even more bummed when I found out he actually has more money than I thought. Fuck. I mean, I told him to go fuck himself and that I no longer wished to spend time with him, but if he'd just showed me the money, he could have "kept our relationship alive".

Please help me understand how I could have told him to get fucked and simultaneously received an unending supply of money and validation from him"

If F26 needs any advice, given her age and that she's passing her prime, she should probably find herself a nice boring guy with money to buy her lots of shit she doesn't need and provide her with lots of stuff to impress her "friends" on facebook with. She may not find him attractive, however she only has to open her legs enough to secure her income, then she can then fuck guys like "Will" who she finds attractive but who won't put up with any of her shit on the side while her sucker husband works himself into an early grave to provide for her.

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Originally Posted by Renton

They're both wrong. I think it's pretty bad to keep that much information from someone you're in a LTR with. There's a whole other question of how long is it okay for him to keep that information to himself, but I think it's clear he waited too long.

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I don't think it's "clear he waited too long". Why does he have to disclose it? Would it be such a bad thing for him to stay quiet until he decides to marry a woman, then tell her after the wedding "Oh, btw, I'm glad we agree on money/lifestyle, but we don't have to worry about income for the rest of our lives"? Considering it's his money, I don't think he would be in the wrong there. It's a bit extreme, but if he's paranoid about gold-diggers that would be a good way to make sure that the woman isn't marrying him for the wrong reasons.

Besides, I doubt this woman woke up after ten months and suddenly realized, "I want things he can't afford". I wonder if the guy's version would include something like, "She bothered me about dinners/gifts/jewelry/her acquaintances' new car/etc every other day, so why tell her about my money?"

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

This shows a gross misunderstanding of what her issue was, and on a larger scale, a misunderstanding of what women are attracted to.

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nope. on both.

if you cared to explain, we could explore. but i'll stop you right here, you're misunderstanding what i mean by material hotness. material is not exclusive to the possession of a good. it's hardly even relevant actually.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Hope you get some rest, buddy. I'm feeling the stress, too, right now.

A bit of advice you can take or leave, but it helps me out immensely:
Charisma is important. It's so important that it should be practiced.

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irl. ive yet to see a charismatic internet persona.

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Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

Translation:

"I met this guy who didn't seem to give a shit about whether I was impressed with his income, car or hobbies and I really respected that so I opened my legs for him. I had a great time with him for about a year, until I spent a lot of time on the worlds biggest website for narcissists, listening to all my cunt "friends" telling me about how much shit they didn't need they were buying - I got really embarrased, I "need" a bunch of useless shit to post photos of too - how dare he not give it to me. While I respected and admired him as a person when we first met, and for the first months, I was beginning to think I'd rather change him into a totally different person.

I told him to get fucked. I couldn't believe it, but when I did this, he no longer wanted to put up with me, or any of my shit! What the fuck? I'm so confused, surely like all the other wet losers I'd opened my legs for in the past, he should still have kept giving me attention???

I was even more bummed when I found out he actually has more money than I thought. Fuck. I mean, I told him to go fuck himself and that I no longer wished to spend time with him, but if he'd just showed me the money, he could have "kept our relationship alive".

Please help me understand how I could have told him to get fucked and simultaneously received an unending supply of money and validation from him"

If F26 needs any advice, given her age and that she's passing her prime, she should probably find herself a nice boring guy with money to buy her lots of shit she doesn't need and provide her with lots of stuff to impress her "friends" on facebook with. She may not find him attractive, however she only has to open her legs enough to secure her income, then she can then fuck guys like "Will" who she finds attractive but who won't put up with any of her shit on the side while her sucker husband works himself into an early grave to provide for her.

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Thank you baby jesus.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Thank you baby jesus.

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on the contrary that's quite the misreading.

about a million percent of this could be avoided if he wasn't an assclown who doesn't understand communication. if im wrong about this, it makes him an even worse person since it means he embraces the idea of being with somebody he doesn't actually want to be with. ironically, that makes him extremely feminine, since it's the feminine in this country that gets a god-knows-why bullshit pass for misdirection and uncertainty with regards to relationships.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

on the contrary that's quite the misreading.

about a million percent of this could be avoided if he wasn't an assclown who doesn't understand communication. if im wrong about this, it makes him an even worse person since it means he embraces the idea of being with somebody he doesn't actually want to be with. ironically, that makes him extremely feminine, since it's the feminine in this country that gets a god-knows-why bullshit pass for misdirection and uncertainty with regards to relationships.

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He communicated exactly what he wanted in the relationship, and she communicated that she was happy with the relationship. Everything was good in the relationship on the communication front.

He wanted to be with her until she broke up with him over shit she saw other people doing on Facebook.

Why would he want to be with someone like that? He handled her batshit crazy move in the most masculine way possible by showing her the door and cutting off contact. On to the fucking next one.

His money has zero percent anything to do with any of this.

looks like you're privy to more information than you posted here

"I never outright asked how much money he made"

Then she complains about how much money she thought he made.

This bitch is retarded.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

"I never outright asked how much money he made"

Then she complains about how much money she thought he made.

This bitch is retarded.

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on the contrary it shows how little she cared about it.

he's the problem here. he hid himself and his motivations. she was honest and he took that to mean that she was in the wrong. as open and shut a case as it gets.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

on the contrary it shows how little she cared about it.

he's the problem here. he hid himself and his motivations. she was honest and he took that to mean that she was in the wrong. as open and shut a case as it gets.

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He made his motivations perfectly clear when he said to her that he was happy with how things were going. He set a very clear precedent about his motivations with not spending much money. That was a problem for her, so she decided to exit the relationship, and then she started bitching about it and trying to crawl back.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

He made his motivations perfectly clear when he said to her that he was happy with how things were going.

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that's letting your stance, in the most superficial and mysterious sense, be clear, not motivations.

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He set a very clear precedent about his motivations with not spending much money.

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actually he didnt. his track record was one of not spending money and not showing ambition otherwise. this is different than having the ambition to not spend money.

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That was a problem for her, so she decided to exit the relationship,

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good for her. people should not abide by losers.

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and then she started bitching about it and trying to crawl back.

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when did that happen? all i see is a chick baffled at a confusing and misdirecting person. her attempts to contact him stem from her wanting to solve the problem. his behavior is the cause.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the guy did.

Meanwhile, the chick talks about how everyone around her is getting married, having babies, buying homes, and getting accolades.

The guy already owns a house, he told her she was in his future (marriage + babies possible), and he clearly did things of interest. The relationship doesnt last 10 months if she wasnt into the hiking, and 'flixing. She saw her friend buy their "3rd property" so she broke it off. She wanted to trade up, find someone with a higher social status, then got boned when she realized later that he had that status all along.

she probably could have been more perceptive for sure.


here's what would have made him the good guy and her the bad guy: if he were to tell her "i dont have the ambition you want from me because im already loaded. i dont like spending money and i dont care what people think of me. if you want to be with a guy like this, then you can. if you don't, then get out". this addressing of the problem clearly and head on would make him the good guy.

then what would have most likely happened is she would have tried to stay, saying that she's okay with his decision. but somewhere down the road she would try to change him. this is what would make her the bad guy. it would mean that she is secretly going against the wishes he made clear.

I mean, its not like this guy was out to trap her. I dont get the sense that hes got some long-term plan of conning bitches, and thats why he drives a clunker and lives in an old house. The guy's just frugal and doesnt want to spend the money.

Its fine that she left him tho. He doesnt have career ambition, and doesnt seem to really want to make something of himself. Theres nothing wrong with that though. If I came into money, idk if I'd have a job. I'd have hobbies, like this guy did (guitar) for sure, but Idk if I'd work. If she wants flashy, its not this guy, and shes right to break it off. But he isnt wrong to live the way he was.

Its her expectation of getting back together, or trying to "fix it" now that she knows her future would have been secure, thats where we get into trouble. The money changes nothing. Hes clearly not going to change his lifestyle, so it doesnt change her insecurities or needs.

he absolutely was not wrong in living the way he does. she left believing something entirely different than he led her to believe. the ball was in his court to dispel the confusion. the error was his and it was unforced.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

here's what would have made him the good guy and her the bad guy: if he were to tell her "i dont have the ambition you want from me because im already loaded. i dont like spending money and i dont care what people think of me. if you want to be with a guy like this, then you can. if you don't, then get out". this addressing of the problem clearly and head on would make him the good guy.

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Psht, in some idealistic impossible world where everyone is rational and all outcomes are just, this might work.

In the real world -- the guy has to consider the risk that marrying the wrong woman can cost him a lot of money. And broadcasting his income information too early can cause a woman to stick around for the wrong reasons (incentive bias is very, very strong). Even if that doesn't turn into marriage and a risk of losing money, it carries a risk of wasting even more time with someone that doesn't actually share your same values.

Anyway, sharing his income information required a certain level of trust that his girlfriend never reached. He has every right to decide what level of trust is required and to make a decision that someone doesn't meet that level.

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Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Psht, in some idealistic impossible world where everyone is rational and all outcomes are just, this might work.

In the real world -- the guy has to consider the risk that marrying the wrong woman can cost him a lot of money. And broadcasting his income information too early can cause a woman to stick around for the wrong reasons (incentive bias is very, very strong). Even if that doesn't turn into marriage and a risk of losing money, it carries a risk of wasting even more time with someone that doesn't actually share your same values.

Anyway, sharing his income information required a certain level of trust that his girlfriend never reached. He has every right to decide what level of trust is required and to make a decision that someone doesn't meet that level.

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too early? she was leaving because by any measure that she could tell, he was a bum and intent on staying one.

he wouldn't be broadcasting or even revealing too much. regardless it's his duty to make sure he doesn't make bad decisions like marry somebody for the wrong reasons.

even then, if you're right, it means he is a loser for an entirely different reason. that reason being that he engages in partnerships that he doesn't actually care enough about to remain in when there's a bump, a bump created by him.


that said, i think i see why you're on his side. he does have a right to want to be with somebody who doesn't care that he's a bum. still, it makes him the bad guy for all the misrepresentation. he should instead be a little forthcoming about his bumdom so that he doesn't waste honest peoples' time.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

that said, i think i see why you're on his side. he does have a right to want to be with somebody who doesn't care that he's a bum. still, it makes him the bad guy for all the misrepresentation. he should instead be a little forthcoming about his bumdom so that he doesn't waste honest peoples' time.

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She doesn't seem that honest to me. In her version, she goes from "I lightly prodded him about his career and future" to "I saw my friends on Facebook and so broke up with him." Seems like a lot is left out.

And in her version, the guy never outright says that he can't afford stuff. Which means she never asked, otherwise I'm sure that would have made its way into the story.

It clearly wasn't a good relationship and there wasn't much communicating happening in either direction. So both people should be glad to move on to something better. She was fine with everything until she found out that he had money.

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Originally Posted by NightGizmo

She doesn't seem that honest to me. In her version, she goes from "I lightly prodded him about his career and future" to "I saw my friends on Facebook and so broke up with him." Seems like a lot is left out.

And in her version, the guy never outright says that he can't afford stuff. Which means she never asked, otherwise I'm sure that would have made its way into the story.

It clearly wasn't a good relationship and there wasn't much communicating happening in either direction. So both people should be glad to move on to something better. She was fine with everything until she found out that he had money.

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if we're assuming these things then i don't have much argument. im merely assuming the text we have been given is more or less accurate.

about your very last line, im not sure i would characterize it that way exclusively. imagine you really dig two chicks at the same time and you do everything you can to get your gf into the idea. but she no goes and you break up with her so you can find somebody who likes other chicks. then later you find out that your ex gf was into threesomes the whole damn time and just chose to not tell you even when you were breaking up with her over it. i think it's more like this than just straight gold digging. it appears that he views it as gold digging though.

I think a lot of good points are being made all around-- so with that being said, and not wanting to really dig in to this, I'll just say that if I was loaded and looking for a long term relationship, I'd be much more on the Coming to America side of the spectrum than popping bottles and and sporting Rolex's. Maybe this guy's execution wasn't perfect, but he at least has the right idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

if we're assuming these things then i don't have much argument. im merely assuming the text we have been given is more or less accurate.

about your very last line, im not sure i would characterize it that way exclusively. imagine you really dig two chicks at the same time and you do everything you can to get your gf into the idea. but she no goes and you break up with her so you can find somebody who likes other chicks. then later you find out that your ex gf was into threesomes the whole damn time and just chose to not tell you even when you were breaking up with her over it. i think it's more like this than just straight gold digging. it appears that he views it as gold digging though.

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What.

This is a horrible analogy. And not in a nit picky, everything doesn't correlate sort of way. This is way off base.

She didn't find out that he's into playing keeping up with the Jones' and advertising his material wealth on Facebook. And even if your analogy works-- the guy pestering his girlfriend to the point of giving her a breakup ultimatum about threesomes is very likely to and justly turn her off of the idea of participating in one with him. She can like the idea, but not feel comfortable yet (or ever) doing it with the guy, and that's completely her prerogative.

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Originally Posted by boost

so with that being said, and not wanting to really dig in to this...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by boost

What.

This is a horrible analogy. And not in a nit picky, everything doesn't correlate sort of way. This is way off base.

She didn't find out that he's into playing keeping up with the Jones' and advertising his material wealth on Facebook. And even if your analogy works-- the guy pestering his girlfriend to the point of giving her a breakup ultimatum about threesomes is very likely to and justly turn her off of the idea of participating in one with him. She can like the idea, but not feel comfortable yet (or ever) doing it with the guy, and that's completely her prerogative.

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=-\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boost

=-\

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It's too late. Wuf is already thumbing through Adam Smith for excerpts to rebut your argument.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boost

What.

This is a horrible analogy. And not in a nit picky, everything doesn't correlate sort of way. This is way off base.

She didn't find out that he's into playing keeping up with the Jones' and advertising his material wealth on Facebook. And even if your analogy works-- the guy pestering his girlfriend to the point of giving her a breakup ultimatum about threesomes is very likely to and justly turn her off of the idea of participating in one with him. She can like the idea, but not feel comfortable yet (or ever) doing it with the guy, and that's completely her prerogative.

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you're saying a chick who is into chicks and has kept that information from her bf is just in being turned off when her bf says he'd like her to be into chicks?

the tell here is that the chick in the op believed something that was not true and her ex knew the truth yet kept it from her. the considerations for why he did it are irrelevant. within the frame of the information we have been given, her misunderstanding of him was dependent upon his misrepresentation to her. if that wasn't the case, i would not have called him in the wrong from the get-go.

There's nothing wrong with her wanting more stuff. There's nothing wrong with him not wanting more stuff.

They want different things.

They can't find a compromise.

Relationship ends.

Nobody is wrong.

As we have no idea if either had said what they want longer term previously it's impossible to really draw any meaningful conclusions beyond that.

I'm so good at starting threads.

I am genuinely surprised to see the amount of eostrogen on this forum.

Allow me to elaborate on the translation in a few places:

"He could have easily kept our relationship alive by being forthcoming" = "If he had told me how much money he had, I would have definitely kept letting him smash up my vagina on a regular basis"

"I am a 26 year old woman who needs to be pragmatic" = "My market value is rapidly going to shit, I need to get as much mileage as possible out of my cock-socket quickly, before advancing years ravage my physical appearance so much that it no longer even slightly offsets my repulsive personality"

"I can't just indefinitely date someone with the future being so uncertain" = "I was certain of some things, since Will had told me outright he saw me in his future, but that wasn't particularly important to me - what really mattered was that I was uncertain where my next "accolade" to post about on facebook was coming from. I can't indefinitely wait since my physical appearance is rapidly degenerating to the point of outwardly reflecting what a dried up old hag I am on the inside - time is of the essence and if Will wouldn't pay for me to project an image of success to my "friends" I was damn well going to find someone else who would, before it's too late."

Women like this are functionally equivalent to a prostitute, and the entire, sickening, "me me me" babble above is like a grotesque caricature of what passes for a woman in western societies. There is no feminine warmth or vulnerability there, just narcissism and a bottomless pit of need to impress her vacuous "friends" on facebook in order to bolster the fake public persona she has built for herself.

It's not even really about money, more about her need to one-up her "friends" with her ability to snag a high value male so as to show them all how successful and worthy she is. To women like these, men don't matter as human beings, and the warmth a man might show her is of no value, instead his only value is as a fashion accessory to impress other people with. A sizeable proportion of "women" in our societies have been turned this way by a combination of marketing, feminist ideology and degenerate social norms that value superficiality and narcissism over human relationships, people and family. There are still quality women out there, you just have to work harder to sort the wheat from the chaff.

What essentially happened here is that this "woman" falsely believed that she was of sufficient quality to persuade a man like Will to provide for her - she was wrong. Not only did it turn out that he couldn't provide for her (which would have been OK with her provided he had continued to pursue her after she left him so that she could have the upper hand and enjoy the ego-boost this would have given her), it was much worse than that - it turned out he could have provided for her, but chose not to.

It didn't suit her inflated self-image to learn that he thought she was hollow inside and unfit for a human relationship, so he had made what limited use could be made of her as a cum receptacle. When she eventually laid her cards right out on the table by making clear that despite her earlier complimentary and appreciative attitude towards his personality and virtues, this was in fact not enough and that continued access to her beef curtains would require him to spend more money, Will had the temerity to point out, through his indifference and willingness to stoically accept her ending their relationship, that her pussy was not that special, much like other pussies, and not worth the price she attached to it. He therefore declined to purchase it.

Worse even than this, he declined her offer to remain "friends", communicating that he already has enough actual friends who give a shit about him, and that he didn't need to continue to offer her the attention she so desperately craves since she was easily replaceable.

If he'd been "decent" like all the other girly-men she'd dumped in the past, he would have continued to pursue her, maybe even stooping low enough to have sex with her again, so that she could maintain her belief that he wasn't good enough for her and that she had all the power. However instead, he grabbed his balls, showed her the door and declined to let her fuck him again making it quite clear that it was her who wasn't good enough for him. That is what she finds most intolerable.

All this has created a mess of her self-esteem. If she can get enough validation from people on the internet, that will bolster her fragile ego a little and make up, in some small way, for how little she is able to show off on facebook at the moment.

I shouldn't worry about it if I were F26 though, since the same social factors that have created her have also created an ample supply of girly-men who will treat her like the special flower daddy told her she was, and as I earlier pointed out, she will easily be able to fuck men like Will on the side, at least for a little longer until her physical appeal has completely faded, whilst enjoying her 5 minutes of fame on facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzWHE32IxUc

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

You guys have serious issues with women.

I would imagine she brought more to the relationship than just her ass. If she didn't then what was the guy doing being in a relationship with her in the first place. If you just want something to fuck then you're a bit of a cunt if you allow the other person to think there's more to the relationship than just that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rong

I would imagine he brought more to the relationship than just his money. If he didn't then what was the girl doing being in a relationship with him in the first place. If you just want something to spend then you're a bit of a cunt if you allow the other person to think there's more to the relationship than just that.

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Fixed your post.

Both versions are equally true.

"translations" = projection.

Agreed Aubrey.

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

"translations" = projection.

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Her actions speak louder than her words.

Yes, actions do speak louder than words. So when someone imputes a slew of nasty character traits onto someone when there is no clear indication from the source material that any of that is the case, that action indicates an emotion-based reaction. Projection.

I think most people in this thread have been hurt by women and suffer from low self esteem.

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

Yes, actions do speak louder than words. So when someone imputes a slew of nasty character traits onto someone when there is no clear indication from the source material that any of that is the case, that action indicates an emotion-based reaction. Projection.

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I didn't see a single nasty character trait. Instead, it was an accurate reading of the situation based on an understanding of how the people in the situation are most likely to operate given their biological and societal imperatives.

Example: A lot changes if she's 20 instead of 26.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I didn't see a single nasty character trait. Instead, it was an accurate reading of the situation based on an understanding of how the people in the situation are most likely to operate given their biological and societal imperatives.

Example: A lot changes if she's 20 instead of 26.

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I'm not talking about you. :)

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

I'm not talking about you. :)

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I was talking about Boris' response.

I think something that gets people, especially those with quite a bit of estrogen flowing in their little kiddy crouton mosquito nuts, is that what he said isn't being said with any level of emotion, angst or anger. It's a mere stating of the facts and an objective assessment of the situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I was talking about Boris' response.

I think something that gets people, especially those with quite a bit of estrogen flowing in their little kiddy crouton mosquito nuts, is that what he said isn't being said with any level of emotion, angst or anger. It's a mere stating of the facts and an objective assessment of the situation.

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Lol ok. Sure it is.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

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you have said many smart things on various issues, including women. i can list several areas where my mind has changed partly because of arguments you have presented.

this is not the case now. the prejudice and confirmation bias and narrow-mindedness in yours and boris' position is off the charts. such egregious whitewashing of the motives of a whole gender based on the most sparse of data points taints the good things you have to say. damage is done to the cause of masculinizing men with this bullshit.

this is probably an example of heuristics getting in the way of investigation and logic. it happens to even the best.

Hey, shit happens. Frugal, lowkey guy like that wouldn't be compatible with Mrs. Keeping-up-with-the-Johnses anyway.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Neither of them really created a problem that led to the end of the relationship. Him ending up having that money doesn't change anything, and it's results-oriented thinking at its best.

"I was perfectly honest about everything - he was a great guy, I loved him and his personality, but I felt he lacked career/life ambition and we wanted different things for the future.
Nothing about this is wrong, but neither is him handling his money however he damn well pleases."


Nothing about this is wrong, but neither is him handling his money however he damn well pleases.

The only problem I have with her behavior is how she acts entitled to his money and assuming she has some claim on how he spends it.

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How does this even translate to agreeing with everything Boris said? My croutons are skeptical.

even if everything boris and spoon say is accurate, it is irrelevant. this chick could be every negative thing you could think about a person, but it does not change the fact that the problem presented in the text is caused by his misrepresentation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

even if everything boris and spoon say is accurate, it is irrelevant. this chick could be every negative thing you could think about a person, but it does not change the fact that the problem presented in the text is caused by his misrepresentation.

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This is pretty much what I've been saying.

Although to be fair I don't think he is at all obliged to divulge just how much money he had to her at any point unless they took major steps forward in building a future together. That part is ambiguous though.

I think she pretty much justifies all male on female domestic violence. I mean they're all the same rights, it's just she came out and said it.

He was never false in word or action as far as the story goes. edit I guess he did. edit maybe not, depends on if he actually did run some websites/give guitar lessons.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

He was never false in word or action as far as the story goes.

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the trouble with language. neglecting an offering of the truth when you almost certainly should still isn't "lying".

the situation was that she believed one thing that he knew was not true and the only way she would know that is if he told her. this is what their relationship and breakup hinged upon. she later wrote a post about how baffled she was that he didn't tell her.

this is why my go-to was that he is either a literal stupid person or didn't actually care much about her (so, a douchecunt instead of a moron) or overly prejudiced against the idea of a gold digger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

This is pretty much what I've been saying.

Although to be fair I don't think he is at all obliged to divulge just how much money he had to her at any point unless they took major steps forward in building a future together. That part is ambiguous though.

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he doesn't even have to divulge stuff. what he has to do is say "hey you know this lack of ambition that you say i have and it's why you're breaking up with me, it's not actually true and here's what im comfortable telling you about it". if he doesn't do that and just lets her go, then he's still a douchebag for engaging in a partnership that he didn't care about.

people are bad at relationships. his being bad at relationships is what this is about.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

he doesn't even have to divulge stuff. what he has to do is say "hey you know this lack of ambition that you say i have and it's why you're breaking up with me, it's not actually true and here's what im comfortable telling you about it". if he doesn't do that and just lets her go, then he's still a douchebag for engaging in a partnership that he didn't care about.

people are bad at relationships. his being bad at relationships is what this is about.

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I just meant that him withholding the information during the relationship isn't necessarily wrong. I agreed with Spoon when he was being reasonable earlier about having a problem with her feeling entitled to his money.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

the trouble with language. neglecting an offering of the truth when you almost certainly should still isn't "lying".

the situation was that she believed one thing that he knew was not true and the only way she would know that is if he told her. this is what their relationship and breakup hinged upon. she later wrote a post about how baffled she was that he didn't tell her.

this is why my go-to was that he is either a literal stupid person or didn't actually care much about her (so, a douchecunt instead of a moron) or overly prejudiced against the idea of a gold digger.

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Well, if he did release the info that he was moneyed, he may have known that it would change their relationship into something he didn't want - that she wouldn't be interested in self-actualizing in her own career, become demanding on the cash, treat him differently because of his wealth.

He may have been sitting on the truth as a pre-proposal gift when he was well aware of her quality and ready to put a ring on it.

Who knows?

What we do know is that he's laid back and she was getting twisted around about not having cash to show off with. He doesn't need her in his life and this was an effective method to sort her out.

We don't know that she's twisted around not having cash to show off -- that's your assumption. We do know that she's twisted about not wanting to start a family with someone who seems 100% complacent with living on very low income for his entire life.

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Lately my newsfeed has been filled with my peers getting married, buying houses, having babies, and other various accolades.

I can't help but feel jealous by this; it seems like everyone but me is making significant gains in their lives and relationships. Three weeks ago, after seeing a girl I knew from high school buy her 3rd property with her husband, it felt like my relationship with Will was juvenile and had no future.

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Don't feel like I'm leaping too far.

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We do know that she's twisted about not wanting to start a family with someone who seems 100% complacent with living on very low income for his entire life.

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Right, so she wasn't right for him and he wasn't right for her. Shit happens.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

[I]


Right, so she wasn't right for him and he wasn't right for her. Shit happens.

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See: signature.



Talking about weighty emotional shit that lasted over the span of months in a single Reddit post is just going to lead to a million misinterpretations. No one knows wtf they're talking about, lol, we're all assuming. "Shit happens" is the best we can do with this one.

How the fuck do you get so much milage out of this subject matter?

Two twats break up. The end.

We're bored and feel like antagonizing each other?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

What we do know is that he's laid back and she was getting twisted around about not having cash to show off with. He doesn't need her in his life and this was an effective method to sort her out.

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but it's not an effective method because that wasn't her problem. her views on money are piggyback. she didn't break up with him because he didn't have money, but because it wasn't reasonable for her to believe that she could have a healthy, long term relationship with him. from her view, the whole thing could come crashing down at any time and he's somebody who has no ability to overcome the inevitable financial challenges that always come. like she said, he appeared juvenile. the things that men are supposed to understand about the world, he did not portray an understanding of them. that's why she broke up with him. there's such great irony here in that he is portraying my symptoms of non-masculine behavior.

as much as i dislike saying misogyny (because it's misused a lot), some of the positions in this thread are textbook misogyny. the guy is viewed as acting masculine and the response is "hooray". the chick is viewed as acting feminine and the response is "boooo". when the guy portrays what is clearly misdirection and pitiful logic, the response is "who what where i don't see nuthin". when the girl portrays super standard reasoning the response is "such a whiny bitch".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

even if everything boris and spoon say is accurate, it is irrelevant. this chick could be every negative thing you could think about a person, but it does not change the fact that the problem presented in the text is caused by his misrepresentation.

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Your assumption that there was a problem anywhere in the original scenario is the only problem here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Your assumption that there was a problem anywhere in the original scenario is the only problem here.

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for a guy who says he understands masculinity and women so well, you're dropping the ball all over the place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

for a guy who says he understands masculinity and women so well, you're dropping the ball all over the place.

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There was no problem. She wanted a provider, and he didn't want to be it. EZ game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

There was no problem. She wanted a provider, and he didn't want to be it. EZ game

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did you read something different? that's not at all what's going on here.

Wuf, your entire argument rests on the premise that he had an obligation to tell her about his money. Since you haven't proven that premise, the rest of your argument is void.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Wuf, your entire argument rests on the premise that he had an obligation to tell her about his money. Since you haven't proven that premise, the rest of your argument is void.

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I'm not basing it on that. He's allowed to not tell her about his money.

But what he's not allowed to have is the moral high ground when his ex posts about how she learned that he misrepresented facts, his motivations, and his character to somebody he treated as a partner. When she wanted something more, he HAD that something more yet chose to let her believe he didn't. What he deserves is everybody else saying "well the guy is clearly a douchebag but at least he's entitled to being a douchebag". Sure, maybe he didn't like her enough to fix the situation created by his misrepresentation. In that case he's an even bigger douchebag who engages partnerships with people he is intent on abandoning when it suits him.

What upsets me is how this juvenile is being championed within a gender context (not by you). If this story is an example of a guy representing what being a man is about and representing the flaws of women, we're fucking doomed. No wonder the state of masculinity in our culture is in such a bad way. If this is what's offered up as a gender dynamic, we're demonstrating exactly how emasculated we've already become.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

In that case she's an even bigger douchebag who engages partnerships with people she is intent on abandoning when it suits her.

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He didn't do the abandoning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

He didn't do the abandoning.

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i cant say what kind of bizarro world you're living in. by your logic, the abandoner is the person who literally left, not the person who created the problem with misdirection and manipulation and then when the problem came to a head, he chose to continue his manipulation and go full sayonara.

this stuff is fine for hookups. people like their fantasies. but when it's a partnership, stop acting like you're fucking 14.

I should add something, because I think I see why some are saying he didn't do anything wrong.

It is totally reasonable for him to be the way he is with his money and it's totally reasonable for him to want to be with somebody who accepts that. But that's not what this is about. The breakup wasn't caused by him being the way he is with his money. It was caused by the strategy he used to deal with it.

You might want to say that it was caused by her wanting more from him, but that isn't a reasonable assessment. What she wanted is the most standard thing in the world. Thinking she's unreasonable for that is like thinking a guy is unreasonable for wanting a chick with a nice ass.

This isn't about how he handles his money or even about what he wants for his own life. This is about how he handles his relationships and how he treats other people. If the cause of the problem hadn't been his mistreatment of another person, I'd probably think he's a pretty smart person.

I rarely, if ever, get pms

I guess getting attacked repeatedly for no reason is what happens when you start good threads. I'll be sure not to interrupt the capitalism/minimum wage/gun regulation cycle anymore.

I have to say, I think wuf is pretty on point here. Sure the risk of gold digging is real, and she did exhibit some signs of being a materialistic consumer whore, but if she had been given full knowledge she would have had the benefit of not feeling like she was possibly being anchored to a financially unstable person, and could have evaluated his preferred (and potentially their future shared) lifestyle on its own merits.

I personally wouldn't want to be in a committed relationship with someone who is fiscally irresponsible and unprepared for the inevitable. Not because I need to depend on them, but because we should be able to depend on each other. If the relationship is lopsided in this way, when the inevitable shit hits the fan one of the partners is always stuck with the burden of bailing the couple out. This leads to resentment and anxiety for the fiscally responsible partner caused by having to bear the financial burden of unknown future events.

Further, people seem to be treating this as if it's an all or nothing decision when it comes to revealing your personal financials. As you grow more comfortable and if your significant other needs some reassurance, you can just tell them that you like living below your means and that you're not sweating the arrival of the next check in the mail. You don't need to show them your bank statements or keep them completely in the dark.

IMHO you should have tried to ask more questions from him. Something of childhood or something. For if you really wanted to get to know him you have to ask questions. Personally, I am somewhat reserved to people whom do not know me but seem to open up as people become closer to me. And yes it does seem as though you are not a gold digger obviously so. But just concerned about your future. I am sure he had no worries at all of his, so if you really reaally likede this dude maybe you should have just rode it out till you could have seen exactly what the future held for the 2 of you

dearest wufwugy, may i humbly suggest some outside time?

<<Instead he said nothing, and now he refuses to talk to me. It makes absolutely no sense.>>

LOL. you went cray cray and he said goodbye. seems legit.

bitch is retarded. bloke either played his hand poorly if he wanted her, or well if he wanted to repel fools like her