A discussion on the iopq ban

You can post complaints or questions, and I’ll try to respond to everyone.

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached privately between the moderators several times. He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

Recently, the commune enjoyed iopq’s destruction in the God thread. At that point I sent Xianti a pm saying something like “Any timetable on the ignore user function (we wont be seeing it for some time, I found out.) and I’m gonna ban iopq soon. I wanted to give you the heads up.”

Xianti agreed. It was just a straw that broke the camels back scenario.

The real mistakes were how I handled it publicly. I wanted to give him a 24 hour warning before I banned him and decided the most entertaining route was Round 11. At the time, I thought it would be highly amusing way of showing him the door. But of course, in execution, it looks like a hasty grudge banning.

The delay for this announcement revolved around the fact that the initial decision was between just Xianti and I. Xman assumed I would simply go the route of making an announcement saying “iopq was banned for a career of bringing down the quality of the forums.” Once xman saw how poorly the banning appeared, which is that I didn’t agree with iopq’s political views and banned him for it, we had to open up a mod’s discussion on the possibility of reversing the ban.

The final decision is that iopq was bad for the forums and his removal will stand.

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums. In my mind, I didn’t think you all needed a clear and concise reason for his banning. Once I got an ok from Xman, I wanted that to be all anyone needed. I would generally much prefer having a little fun with it than running out an (edit) long announcement. I apologize for making it seem as if it was a snap decision. It’s been a banning that the admins have seen coming for quite some time. The timing of the ban is largely arbitrary. With iopq, unless he stopped posting, his eventual banning was a fore-gone conclusion.

I am sorry for making it seem like a new totalitarian regime of renegade admins was cracking down on allowing you to say and do whatever you want on these forums. I also apologize for making it appear that the admins do not respect the rules and traditions of the forums.

Any questions, concerns, opinions, whatever, please post here.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums. In my mind, I didn’t think you all needed a clear and concise reason for his banning.

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I fully agree with this statement

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Any questions, concerns, opinions, whatever, please post here.

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Gauge the secret moddy discussions on the DEFCON scale fo me, how close am I to being banned?

+ 1 for IOPQ's ban, he was a fucking social retard.

Yeah he beat 100nl or whatever, but he polluted pretty much every thread with some dumb shit. Glad he's gone. I might actually post again now.

I don't know the DEFCON scale. If 1 is you're off the radar and 100 is I'm editing your account right now, 0.

I have started posting and reading more in both the SHNL and the BC forums again.

So that means that this is the new official "iopq jokes" thread?

I'm not really gonna crack any jokes. I'd just like to post up a picture:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2903/rlcucumber.jpg
That'll be my version of "flowers" on iopq's virtual grave.

Thank you rilla for that explanation. I'd like an FTR hoodie for creating a way (the God thread) to get the iopq ban going. I'm a large. I'll be waiting. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Muzzard

+ 1 for IOPQ's ban, he was a fucking social retard.

Yeah he beat 100nl or whatever, but he polluted pretty much every thread with some dumb shit. Glad he's gone. I might actually post again now.

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Unfortunately, no jokes are coming from me in this thread. Just the lame honesty that'll make FTR understand.

I do hope you post more.

Thank you for taking the time to post this, rilla.

I'm also hoping this will be a perma ban, unlike the cop-out that is dwarfman. i'm pretty sure he's posting here under another name.

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Originally Posted by Xianti

Thank you for taking the time to post this, rilla.

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You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'm also hoping this will be a perma ban, unlike the cop-out that is dwarfman. i'm pretty sure he's posting here under another name.

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I'm sorry? I'm almost certain he isn't.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

You can post complaints or questions, and I’ll try to respond to everyone.

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no questions, no complaints, just a couple of comments. I think that you already know that I think a ban inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached. Recently, the commune enjoyed iopq’s destruction in the God thread.

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vs, say, luckyslevin et al.
I note that this is a poker forum, and agree that his poker posts have been a mixed, although improving, bag - but that most have at the very least stimulated discussion of the type that is FTR's greatest weakness in comparison to, e.g., 2+2 (I'm basically quoting Renton here about the FTR weakness, I can find his post if need be). I also note that many FTR members are more concerned about poker than any other FTR content. I contend that his banning will net detract from the POKER content on this site.

it is also interesting to run a search on your posts rilla, and look at all the poker content over the last few months...

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

The real mistakes were how I handled it publicly. But of course, in execution, it looks like a hasty grudge banning.

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Real mistakes:
1) The poll approach was poor judgement, yep
2) Taking so long to respond after promising an earlier response was also incredibly poor, in fact, your approach through this entire debacle has been indecent. Many will speculate that the only reason that the ban was not reversed is some sort of ego-war - how would it be for you if IOPQ could still post here, with a sig of the "suck on him/her rilla" variety.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

The final decision is that iopq was bad for the forums and his removal will stand.

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I'm curious about this. Especially after slevin style precedents. I would like to see the posts since, say, end-July '09 and outside of the commune that you refer to as being net bad for the forum. In fact, as this appears to be your brainchild, it would be appropriate for you to list these posts - and maybe even refute their content. Otherwise you'll be looking kinda like an imbecile. If you did list these posts and provide analysis on the content, this would be an amazing poker resource for FTR - I look forward to reading it.
An absence of such a piece of work will support the thesis that this is indeed about a personality conflict.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums.

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it wasn't about the giving or not giving an answer, it was the how you went about doing it. Ignoring messages/posts for a while was a good start.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I also apologize for making it appear that the admins do not respect the rules and traditions of the forums.

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only one admin looked like this.

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Originally Posted by FTR rules

1..... repeated rudeness and unhelpful, condescending remarks in any discussion will not be tolerated.
and 2..... If your comment could be seen as threatening, hateful or mean-spirited, it's probably not a good idea to post it.

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e.g.

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Originally Posted by rilla

iopq, you should really be ashamed of every post you've made in this thread.

You're just dumb.

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Originally Posted by rilla

sorry, dude. But you're a good 4 years away from being able to understand anything I say (other than you're dumb).

You're dumb.

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etc...

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Originally Posted by FTR rules

5. Ridiculing of members who have been disciplined is forbidden.

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I don't even need to bother to find quotes.

I'm tired now, I may continue later.
I guess this is a complaint about your behaviour, exalted commune admin, especially in light of the forum rules you choose to ignore. This must be worth a strike or two, or? sorry, i said "no complaints, no questions" above. Oh well.

xiantis avatar combined with srsbsns posts is quite funny.

CHUCK NORRIS

daven, I don't know how to best respond to you.

I had no idea that you felt personally slighted by how I ignored your posts. For the 2 days after the ban, I didn't have my usual freetime to hang around and post. I simply had to keep all the discussion consolidated and focused. Once the mods discussion of his possible unbanning sprouted, I couldn't have fractured conversations across two forums and my inbox. I'm sorry for any hurt feelings, that's just how I handled it.

I can assure you that iopq's banning was not ego-driven though it clearly appears that way. I don't know how to explain myself to you on this point.

And I won't be able to get into a detailed discussion of measuring the value of iopq and proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was bad for the forums. On this point, I can only bow to the scores of posters who stop reading and posting in the poker forums who cite him directly. I know you'll ask to name names and that you're out for a bit of blood. But what's done is done. Life moves on.

... So what was the reason for banning him?

Seems like mob mentality to me, no offense. That you had to write up well worded, cleverly crafted full page summary while dancing around the issue kind of proves the point.

Whether or not a guy makes bad posts shouldn't be grounds to get them banned.

edit: specifically, it looks like he made a lot of posts people didn't agree with. Which is the direction my last sentence/paragraph was heading. My point still stands.

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Originally Posted by Lukie

... So what was the reason for banning him?

Seems like mob mentality to me, no offense. That you had to write up well worded, cleverly crafted full page summary while dancing around the issue kind of proves the point.

Whether or not a guy makes bad posts shouldn't be grounds to get them banned.

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Agreed. I don't consider myself the driving force behind his banning. I just happened to be in a position to actually ban him. I'm sure that doesn't sound good to anyone.

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Originally Posted by Lukie

... So what was the reason for banning him?

Seems like mob mentality to me, no offense. That you had to write up well worded, cleverly crafted full page summary while dancing around the issue kind of proves the point.

Whether or not a guy makes bad posts shouldn't be grounds to get them banned.

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I disagree on the last point. Bad posters are bad for the forums. I can't say it much better than what UG said.

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Also, this made me think of my high school American History classroom at school. We have LOTS of discussions in my class about all sorts of different things. Four of my five classes freaking rock. I have all sorts of students asking great questions and giving great answers/opinions to each other. It's a sight to see and really is amazing how awesome those class periods can be.

Every year it seems I have one "dud" class, where the "loudest" voices are, to put it in a nice way, not the best or brightest students in the world (not even close for some of them). The discussions in this class are shit for various reasons. All it takes is one or sometimes two bad apples to make the entire classroom discussion go down hill. The smart kids that would normally have great things to share don't, or no longer share because the discussion isn't stimulating for them (therefore not worth having). That, or they know it'll end up in a huge clusterfuck so they have a "why bother" sort of attitude.

If I could get the "duds" out of my classroom so the experience was greater for my other 20-24 kids, I would in a heartbeat. Again, addition by subtraction.

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This is my belief as well and the decision was supported by Xianti. Who, in the end, owns and runs this forum as he should see fit.

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Originally Posted by Lukie

... So what was the reason for banning him?

Seems like mob mentality to me, no offense. That you had to write up well worded, cleverly crafted full page summary while dancing around the issue kind of proves the point.

Whether or not a guy makes bad posts shouldn't be grounds to get them banned.

edit: specifically, it looks like he made a lot of posts people didn't agree with. Which is the direction my last sentence/paragraph was heading. My point still stands.

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it shouldnt? I mean I dont think that the occasional bad post warrants a ban obviously, but overly active posters that never post good content can certainly drag a forum down... especially when the forums goal is to educate...

I want to make it clear that I"m not taking any sides here. I don't read enough of FTR anymore to say that he was or wasn't a good or bad poster. I don't think it's overly relevant though.

If you can clearly link me to a place where he's clearly breaking the rules or being a troll, fine. Obviously that isn't the case though, otherwise it would be in this thread.

It just seems like he took the differing/controversial viewpoint one too many times and he got bounced for it.

He wasn't banned for only his commune posting. It just so happened that my turn to bring up the idea of banning iopq was the straw that broke the camels back.

re: rilla/boost, I knew someone was going to jump on the last line there, which is why I edited my post to try to clarify it.

It seems like you guys want to create a forum that is assimilated and where everyone thinks alike. Which is fine I guess if that's what you want. Whatever, I'm pretty much indifferent and just calling it like I see it.

Is there any reason why he was such a bad poster other than he had a controversial or differing viewpoint too much?

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Originally Posted by Lukie

It seems like you guys want to create a forum that is assimilated and where everyone thinks alike.

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I'd like to think this is pretty much the opposite of our goals here.

Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.

As far as dealing with Rilla's bad handling of this affair, that's between him and me, and it is being discussed.

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Originally Posted by Xianti

Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.

As far as dealing with Rilla's bad handling of this affair, that's between him and me, and it is being discussed.

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Fair enough, that is reasonable.

Rilla talking about it in the abstract was about to make my head asplode.

Im trying to avoid specific iopq bashing. Down that road lies madness.

Trying to find a good MADNESS/SPARTA picture but I'm coming up blank. Damnit.

edit: wheeeeeeeeee http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/...35-madness.jpg

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached privately between the moderators several times. He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

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From this statement, can we infer that we are unlikely to just be banned without warning. I have to admit to being slightly uneasy seeing a prolific poster on the site being banned without receiving strikes and it seems rilla accepts that the method taken to resolve the issue appeared badly executed in that to the great unwashed it seemed to be a moderator picking on a user.
Given that Jyms received a strike recently showing that even the mods arent above reproach , would it have caused a lot less hassle for rilla and the rest of the mods/admin if iopq had been given strikes with his warnings so that in effect it looked like he was being banned for multiple strikes rather than just an out of the blue ban.

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Originally Posted by Keith_MM

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached privately between the moderators several times. He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

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From this statement, can we infer that we are unlikely to just be banned without warning. I have to admit to being slightly uneasy seeing a prolific poster on the site being banned without receiving strikes and it seems rilla accepts that the method taken to resolve the issue appeared badly executed in that to the great unwashed it seemed to be a moderator picking on a user.
Given that Jyms received a strike recently showing that even the mods arent above reproach , would it have caused a lot less hassle for rilla and the rest of the mods/admin if iopq had been given strikes with his warnings so that in effect it looked like he was being banned for multiple strikes rather than just an out of the blue ban.

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Unless you're a spammer, obvious free-troll or go the way of dwarfman, you'll always receive plenty of fair warning.

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

With how this banning was handled, FTR doesn't benefit from an immature little jackass just having fun holding these positions. It was truly a seat of power held only on the merits of how many times I can click refresh in one day.

I will still field all responses. But I'm gonna go out and unwind a bit.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

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This makes today a sad day in FTR history imo.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

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lol wtf? Because you did one thing that was not the best way to handle things?

You're still the lifeblood of the commune and have never done a bad thing as mod/admin. Learn from it and be better.

Lets turn this thread into a petition to stop the dethroning of 'rilla by --er 'rilla.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

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lol wtf? Because you did one thing that was not the best way to handle things?

You're still the lifeblood of the commune and have never done a bad thing as mod/admin. Learn from it and be better.

Lets turn this thread into a petition to stop the dethroning of 'rilla by --er 'rilla.

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My decision had nothing to do with this. I was offered a better position as an avid poster and FTR regular.

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Originally Posted by GatorJH

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

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This makes today a sad day in FTR history imo.

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+1

And I would have quoted Gala, but I despise him, so...

Rilla, I would agree to your stepping down as Administrator, but I plead with you to stay on as Moderator. There simply isn't a better person to moderate the Commune. This is your jungle, damnit! And you've never failed me as a Moderator.

...unless you have other personal reasons to give everything up, e.g., if real life has become too busy.

Alright, I'll gladly serve at the pleasure of the commune.

Though, I was interested to see how {edited} would have ran this place.

what is this, real life, you speak of?

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Originally Posted by givememyleg

what is this, real life, you speak of?

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Only in real life, can you play Johnga.

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Originally Posted by Xianti

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Originally Posted by givememyleg

what is this, real life, you speak of?

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Only in real life, can you play Johnga.

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is that the thing where the tribal leader lets the explorer decide his fate, boiling cauldron or johnga which appears to be sex. Obv the explorer choses johnga, then the tribal leader is all like "fine then. DEATH BY JOHNGA!"

Swear to god Rilla if you 100% step down, I'm deleting my blog and liquidating my poker funds and spending it on lottery tickets! don't do it man... don't do it!

Although I'm not the most prolific poster, I visit FTR at least 6 of 7 days a week, and often several times a day. So maybe my voice isn't as loud as some.

But I can say, IMO:

I'm glad you're not totally leaving rilla.



Now I just need to work you becoming a Wings fan this season :)

Lol, he already said he wasn't ffs. :) (Thank god, cuz his lame humor sure makes dis feesh laugh.)

Love you iopq :)

Is iopq just another story of an ostracised genius?

We had a lot of good poker discussions- him and I. I cannot speak on behalf of his winrates, but when I was an active player my winrates was better than most any online player in the world.

My point is: If I, one of the true greats of the game (IMHbutmaybenaiveO), can have fruitful discussions with him- how can he possibly drag the forum down quality wise?

I feel Davens´and Lukies´ posts and they resonate with my heart/intuition.

P.S 1: No need to flame it up Jyms and Muzzard, I already know you do not like my honest self appreciation.

P.S 2: I am drunk

P.S 3: Waste of time (Get it? Consoll games waste of time. Haha for explaining a bad joke- LOLZ IRL. yeah baby for being an online forum tard yo!

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Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

but when I was an active player my winrates was better than most any online player in the world.

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uhoh... this is gonna start somethin'....

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Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

P.S 2: I am drunk

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ok phew! that's goood :)

I heard Sir P offed himself when I was at boot. :/ Guess not lulz. And also lolz at "ostracised genius." (In terms of IOPQ, not u Sir P, with you i haz no comment as i havent read enuf of ur posts.)

Wow, this went places it shouldn't have.

Guys, how is it not obvious that ipod got banned for reasons other than the Commune? Nobody here has ever seen anybody on any forum get banned just for posting stupid ideas in off topic forums. That's just not how it works. It was clearly the fact that he was causing problems in other forums.

And he also did nothing to benefit the strategy forums. The guy is a moron who does nothing but post the same garbage over and over no matter what happens. If he thought the sky was green he would never stop posting about it no matter what.

And I would have banned his ass solely on his Commune activity, but that's because I have zero tolerance for willful ignorance, and I would have put that in the T&C, but that's clearly not how successful forums are run

If rilla is to blame for mishandling this, then the Commune is to blame for the silly assumption that he was banned based on Commune activity

Reinstate aboorilla as admin. Seriously, ihop gets banned A+, internet drama A+, rilla looks like the bad guy even though he isn't D-

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

Wow, this went places it shouldn't have.

Guys, how is it not obvious that ipod got banned for reasons other than the Commune? Nobody here has ever seen anybody on any forum get banned just for posting stupid ideas in off topic forums. That's just not how it works. It was clearly the fact that he was causing problems in other forums.

And he also did nothing to benefit the strategy forums. The guy is a moron who does nothing but post the same garbage over and over no matter what happens. If he thought the sky was green he would never stop posting about it no matter what.

And I would have banned his ass solely on his Commune activity, but that's because I have zero tolerance for willful ignorance, and I would have put that in the T&C, but that's clearly not how successful forums are run

If rilla is to blame for mishandling this, then the Commune is to blame for the silly assumption that he was banned based on Commune activity

Reinstate aboorilla as admin. Seriously, ihop gets banned A+, internet drama A+, rilla looks like the bad guy even though he isn't D-

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+1

Iopq almost ruined FTRs Short-handed No Limit Forum.

Thank you FTR. The world is now a better place. :dance:

rilla, chill.

The bannination was butchered pretty horribly, mostly because there wasn't nearly enough grassroots support drummed up for the beheading that occured.

However that's no reason to get all SRS BIZ because no-one will give a fuck about iopq's absence, his narcissism was fucking annoying.


As an aside/hijack, we could really do with some solid leadership in SHNL, and if the commune guys (wuf, Lukie, etc.) are still playing it'd be awesome to see you dudes there. I remember back in the day, posting HHs, receiving advice, and knowing that the advice I'd received was fucking solid from regulars who were winning well and moving up the poker ladder. I don't get that same feeling now (although the nutsinho era was fantastic).

Absolutely no disrespect intended towards any SHNL posters because everyone's contribution is valuable, however without a trusted known winner keeping everyone in line, there's no particular way to judge the merits of a poster. iopq wouldn't have clogged up SHNL nearly as much had nutsinho been kicking his face in.

Kicking his face in was part of the reason he left, he has no time for the bullshit.

wait, why was dozer so butt hurt over this?

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Originally Posted by Xianti

Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.

As far as dealing with Rilla's bad handling of this affair, that's between him and me, and it is being discussed.

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ooohhh....'rilla's gonna get a spankin!...



this is good ...its good to see in black and white why people are banned....or given a strike...

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I disagree on the last point. Bad posters are bad for the forums.

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Please would FTR define what is a bad post and put it in the rules, so we all know the standard we have to achieve, as being a bad poster is apparently a banning offence.

I thought the point of this site was to discuss poker. I was already reluctant to join in discussions, particularly in some forums, for fear of saying the wrong thing. It seems to me that if people give the wrong advice then others pointing that out generates discussion and helps everyone to learn. And people being afraid to post does not seem to me to promote discussion.

I read the titles of a lot of threads, click on them and then find that they do not live up to expectations or contain posts with which I disagree. It would never enter my head to complain to the site that the standard of posts is not of sufficient quality.

I have thought about drawing attention to posts that are hateful and mean spirited like "iopq was a fucking social retard", as it seems to me that insulting people or taking the piss out of them is far worse for the health of the forums, but that seems to be OK as long as you pick on the right targets ie newbs or iopq apparently.

I do not know iopq and if he was warned specifically not to do X and carried on doing X, then it seems fair to ban him. It would be clearer that this had been done if he had been given one strike, then two, then banned. As it is, I have the impression that he has been banned for annoying the wrong people.

oh wut theyre coming out of the word werk now.

LOL @ iopq even being worth rilla giving up his mod job (I know he's not giving it up, but just saying). I think I would cry if rilla wasn't mod of the commune...but he is, so I'm not crying.

And I'm pretty much over iopq being gone...who wants a beer?

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Originally Posted by BooG690

LOL @ iopq even being worth rilla giving up his mod job (I know he's not giving it up, but just saying). I think I would cry if rilla wasn't mod of the commune...but he is, so I'm not crying.

And I'm pretty much over iopq being gone...who wants a beer?

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i'm up for a beer.

and time to lock this place up and move along

:h: rilla

I'd really like to see some examples for his posts that were so horrible that you could say that he has been single-handedly bringing down the quality of an entire message board.
I'm reading the SSNL forum, and I have never felt like he did. There are a lot of situations where I completely disagree with him, but that is because I think he's levelling himself, and getting too tricky when it's not needed. The man is playing 4 tables max. How do you not get stupid ideas playing such a low number of hands /h.
As an FTP reg he is someone I definitely do not want on my left - which is not something I could be saying about everyone in favor of the ban.
If there really was a problem there should have been a strike.
I am still voting for an unban... replace it with a strike if you feel like that's necessary.

Right now this is looking a lot like rilla went vigilante on iopq's ass and got the rest of the mods to agree with the ban post mortum in an overnite face saving plot.

If you feel like the quality of the content has suffered lately, how about you provide your own content, rather than banning people that you feel provide content of lesser quality than you would have been able to provide, if you could have been bothered.

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Originally Posted by oskar

I'd really like to see some examples for his posts that were so horrible that you could say that he has been single-handedly bringing down the quality of an entire message board.
I'm reading the SSNL forum, and I have never felt like he did. There are a lot of situations where I completely disagree with him, but that is because I think he's levelling himself, and getting too tricky when it's not needed. The man is playing 4 tables max. How do you not get stupid ideas playing such a low number of hands /h.
As an FTP reg he is someone I definitely do not want on my left - which is not something I could be saying about everyone in favor of the ban.
If there really was a problem there should have been a strike.
I am still voting for an unban... replace it with a strike if you feel like that's necessary.

Right now this is looking a lot like rilla went vigilante on iopq's ass and got the rest of the mods to agree with the ban post mortum in an overnite face saving plot.

If you feel like the quality of the content has suffered lately, how about you provide your own content, rather than banning people that you feel provide content of lesser quality than you would have been able to provide, if you could have been bothered.

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Oskar, incase you haven't noticed, there are but 4 or 5 regular posters in the SHNL forum now, both mods (renton and Nutsinho) do not post in there anymore. There is max 3 or 4 posts a day and usually by the same person with multiple hands.

Most of the regulars around here are having conversations in other avenues to avoid posting in this forum. The mod forum has been abuzz and we have talked to plenty of others about this problem in several threads over several months. We have a history of conversation that will not be posted here. IOPQ was the problem and Rilla decided that the forum was pretty much losing it's luster because of him, as told by plenty of us to him and Xianti. FTR was tired of the direction it was going in and wants it's best players/posters to come back to the forum to increase the quality content. this is Xianti's forum, we mod it and the conversation to make the change was pretty much unanimous to rid the forum of him, some didn't want it done this way but still wanted him out. Have you seen one mod or mid/high stakes player here complaining or asking for a reversal. If IOPQ was so good at bringing it to the forum why are only a half handful of people protesting, and one of them is Sir Pownalot.

You are the exception, does that not worry you about what you believe is right? Is maybe your judgment of IOPQ wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Unless you're a spammer, obvious free-troll or go the way of dwarfman, you'll always receive plenty of fair warning.

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or you're iopq, or.... whatever other random shit...

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Unless you're a spammer, obvious free-troll or go the way of dwarfman, you'll always receive plenty of fair warning.

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or you're iopq, or.... whatever other random shit...

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Jeez dozer...

@ jyms

lol come on man don't hate on him so much, his posts >>>> anything you've ever posted in this forum, and there you were trying to make yourself look so much better than him with your comment on how your 'poker resume' is better in one of your previous posts. He actually created some good debate/discussion, all you do is walk around cursing at freetrollers.

Sorry if the truth is harsh, but you've made harsh enough statements that I think you can handle it. I feel alot of what you have said is more out of personal spite/hate than actual objective reason, but I won't take this further. You seem to have a very narrow minded view of most things, and I can see it in the way you don't accept many people, but rather just follow the opinions of others to 'fit in'. I believe I even tried to offer you advice in your old blog one time, but you made some smart ass comment and you wouldn't take it because I hadn't been around as long as you ldo.

If being a moderator is all about how long you've been on this site then Ragnar should be running the BC imo (no noffence Ragnar but I know you can take that as a joke :D) I fail to see any postive impact you've had on this community - even your sig' is negative - but maybe I haven't been around long enough to see it.

I support and respect Xianti and everyone elses decision who was in charge as I am sure there has been much thought put into such a deicision that it can only mean the intention was to make the forum a better place. Let's hope the result of iopq's ban goes as planned.

Anyway, he's gone, and there isn't much of a way to see whether or not the change was for better or worse yet. Only time will tell. GL to you iopq if you're reading this thread, as I imagine you are.

Man dazer is never gonna live this down

you mean dev?

pretty sure he means ripptyde.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zook

:h: rilla

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+1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

@ jyms

lol come on man don't hate on him so much, his posts >>>> anything you've ever posted in this forum, and there you were trying to make yourself look so much better than him with your comment on how your 'poker resume' is better in one of your previous posts. He actually created some good debate/discussion, all you do is walk around cursing at freetrollers.

Sorry if the truth is harsh, but you've made harsh enough statements that I think you can handle it. I feel alot of what you have said is more out of personal spite/hate than actual objective reason, but I won't take this further. You seem to have a very narrow minded view of most things, and I can see it in the way you don't accept many people, but rather just follow the opinions of others to 'fit in'. I believe I even tried to offer you advice in your old blog one time, but you made some smart ass comment and you wouldn't take it because I hadn't been around as long as you ldo.

If being a moderator is all about how long you've been on this site then Ragnar should be running the BC imo (no noffence Ragnar but I know you can take that as a joke :D) I fail to see any postive impact you've had on this community - even your sig' is negative - but maybe I haven't been around long enough to see it.

I support and respect Xianti and everyone elses decision who was in charge as I am sure there has been much thought put into such a deicision that it can only mean the intention was to make the forum a better place. Let's hope the result of iopq's ban goes as planned.

Anyway, he's gone, and there isn't much of a way to see whether or not the change was for better or worse yet. Only time will tell. GL to you iopq if you're reading this thread, as I imagine you are.

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Love to see where I did this? I was only trying to explain the process as it went behind the scenes. I have not said anything demeaning during this last problem between IOPQ and the powers that banned him. You have no idea what I said in those threads with the mods.

Your opinions on the past are scewed by emotions, you probably should try and relax a little. This is not the first time I have said something to someone else and you have quoted me and had something to say. Are you really just itching to pick a fight, because that horse has left the barn, it's waaayy too late, I've moved on.

the following from xianti and jyms do a good job of explaining the situation. Thanks to you both for posting.

I'm pretty sure there is a general consensus about how this was handled, people do make mistakes - we're human. That the mistake has been acknowledged is a good thing - props to rilla for this. Gotta be feeling kinda stink if you were IOPQ right now = I'm sure any similar situations will be better handled in future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xianti

Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.
.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Oskar, incase you haven't noticed, there are but 4 or 5 regular posters in the SHNL forum now, both mods (renton and Nutsinho) do not post in there anymore. There is max 3 or 4 posts a day and usually by the same person with multiple hands.

Most of the regulars around here are having conversations in other avenues to avoid posting in this forum. The mod forum has been abuzz and we have talked to plenty of others about this problem in several threads over several months. We have a history of conversation that will not be posted here. IOPQ was the problem and Rilla decided that the forum was pretty much losing it's luster because of him, as told by plenty of us to him and Xianti. FTR was tired of the direction it was going in and wants it's best players/posters to come back to the forum to increase the quality content. this is Xianti's forum, we mod it and the conversation to make the change was pretty much unanimous to rid the forum of him, some didn't want it done this way but still wanted him out.

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this is interesting. Snowball effect etc, like, i'd started doing more discussion of hand histories outside the forum - not cos of iopq directly, but because it seemed like the input here was getting kinda thin. I hadn't gone down the "I wonder why?" path.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Have you seen one mod or mid/high stakes player here complaining or asking for a reversal. If IOPQ was so good at bringing it to the forum why are only a half handful of people protesting, and one of them is Sir Pownalot.

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If iopq was so bad, then why is anyone protesting? And it is generally accepted that for each person who protests there are numerous others that think the same way. But that obviously does not matter if none of the "right" people protest.

This is the first I've noticed anyone having a problem with iopq.

I guess I filter shit much better than the rest of you sensitive pussies.

I found it annoying that everytime you looked at a new thread there would be multiple posts by said person.

If these posts had been by Renton, nuts, ISF etc then happy days, but when it was IOPQ it was just, meh, click on next thread. Oh look IOPQ is all over this thread too, click on next...guess what....etc etc.

i have no prob with him personally, but it seemed to me he was hinted at many times to calm down on his posting, but he obv didn't take the hint.

And with regards to rilla banning him. Surely thats why he's here? to mod the forums.

I posted 2 hands in BC. Even though I made pretty ridiculous play, he took them seriously and responded well.

I am wondering if he will be able to reply on this thread. I would like to hear his defense since, if he is being criticized here in front of the public, he must have the right to do so.

In before IRC reference.

lock the drama, it´s ridiculous. Hes gone, the majority is happy about it, so what?

Deriving new emotional/personal arguments between pro- and contra ipoq-people is just retarded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Have you seen one mod or mid/high stakes player here complaining or asking for a reversal. If IOPQ was so good at bringing it to the forum why are only a half handful of people protesting, and one of them is Sir Pownalot.

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If iopq was so bad, then why is anyone protesting? And it is generally accepted that for each person who protests there are numerous others that think the same way. But that obviously does not matter if none of the "right" people protest.

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Unfortunately, I can not relay private conversations from the mod forum. Whatever is said there, stays there. I shouldn't have even quoted UG's words but he said it as well as I could think of.

There is an element of he pissed off the wrong people. Those people were the owners, admins and moderators that try to run FTR. When great posters move away from the forum and cite him, we had to consider taking action. Those long standing internal beliefs solidified when I finally made a move to ban him for good.

We discussed it at length, and we all decided that even though I publicly handled it about as bad as possible, the ban was still for the good of the forum.

I don't really have the authority to lecture you on the "that's life" aspects of this debacle. But the forum moves on and I would appreciate it if you stay and participate in discussions.

If you ever feel that one of the "right" people is unfairly treating one of the "wrong" people, I promise that you'll find an open and understanding ear with Xianti, givememyleg or taipan.

I am less confused. Thank you for the clarification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BankItDrew

This is the first I've noticed anyone having a problem with iopq.

I guess I filter shit much better than the rest of you sensitive pussies.

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yeah I'm sure it has nothing to do with your complete lack of emotions...

Rills is awesome. And I would've been verily depressed were he out of the jungle. 500lb4lif!

Also, for a bit of context, I posted the above from my iPod Touch, while taking a morning dump that was flavored with some of the Wild-flavored hot wings from BW3s last night... because *sobsob*... cauze I ruv me sum rilla!!!

What does Wild taste like anyway? That could go a lot of different ways. Could taste spicy, could taste like panther pheremones...don't know.

SPR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I disagree on the last point. Bad posters are bad for the forums.

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Please would FTR define what is a bad post and put it in the rules, so we all know the standard we have to achieve, as being a bad poster is apparently a banning offence.

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7303/badpost.jpg

I woudl rather have luckyslevin back than IOPQ and that is saying something!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muzzard

I woudl rather have luckyslevin back than IOPQ and that is saying something!

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is Slevin still playing/losing do we know?

Many years from now, our childrens children will see Rilla as a true legend, a great warrior poet, the last action hero!!

Honestly, this isn't my house. I'm just glad to be let in. You guys do whatever you want.

i wonder if there's any correlation between the people thinking he was banned because of commune activity only, and said thinkers rarely, if ever, leaving the commune.

I rarely, if ever, leave the commune and even I knew iopq to be bad for the shnl forum.

I actually didn't mind having him in the commune.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Your opinions on the past are scewed by emotions, you probably should try and relax a little. This is not the first time I have said something to someone else and you have quoted me and had something to say. Are you really just itching to pick a fight, because that horse has left the barn, it's waaayy too late, I've moved on.

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yeah I'm the one who isn't relaxed and steaming, lol. glad you've moved on.

Can't we all just get along?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash256

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I disagree on the last point. Bad posters are bad for the forums.

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Please would FTR define what is a bad post and put it in the rules, so we all know the standard we have to achieve, as being a bad poster is apparently a banning offence.

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7303/badpost.jpg

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This isn't getting enuff luz imo.


nh sir

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bode

wait, why was dozer so butt hurt over this?

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lmao.

in case anyone cares what i think about this:

i have been ok with the "ends" of the decision for a while, since there was talk in the BC {edit: i mean irc} about how iopq's content made A LOT of respected posters stop posting. i definitely agree that if this is the case than this decision is certainly addition by subtraction.

however, i was really uneasy with the "means" of the decision until this statement was made. i thought it was a bad precedent to set to ban someone just for making "bad posts" and giving bad advice and pissing off great players. BUT now i feel completely ok with it having heard that he received repeated warning through various mediums. who cares whether he actually received strikes or not, just so long as he was being warned by the powers to be that he should stop being such a nuisance.

this last point makes it absolutely understandable how completely antagonizing everyone in the God thread after being repeatedly warned that he was being a nuisance could be the last straw. without knowing this context, though, i think you guys could see how this came off as weird for the 48 hours or so between being banned and being explained.

yeah 'rilla you made a slight mistake in judgment by making a joke out of it, but i could see how you didn't expect to get much backlash from it because the majority of people hated him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xianti

Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.

As far as dealing with Rilla's bad handling of this affair, that's between him and me, and it is being discussed.

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I hate to see anyone banned :( GL IOPQ, but I'll take Xianti's word that some good posters had stopped posting in the strat forums because of him -- I wouldn't be surprised as a lot of his approaches were abrasive.

Sometimes I felt like he really jump started some discussions in SHNL, and other times completely derailed them.

I'd rather have the top quality posters in the strategy forums to help everyone's bottom line than to keep IOPQ on -- just being selfish on the quality of the strat forums here. Sorry IO, and thanks Xianti/Mods for keeping such great forums

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surviva316

BUT now i feel completely ok with it having heard that he received repeated warnings through various mediums.

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um, I don't think this happened.
Could either Xianti or 'rilla confirm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

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this is what i was referencing. don't really think the officiality of a strike is necessary so long as someone's warned

I can confirm he has received warnings/complaints by mods and admins privately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surviva316

BUT now i feel completely ok with it having heard that he received repeated warnings through various mediums.

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um, I don't think this happened.
Could either Xianti or 'rilla confirm?

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i can confirm that rilla confirms this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I can confirm he has received warnings/complaints by mods and admins privately.

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i stand corrected, my mistake.

iopq was indeed asked in private by several people on several occasions to cut down on his posting or simply stay out of their forums (by Moderators). This had gone on for many, many months -- perhaps over a year.

In hindsight, it was a mistake on all of our parts (Moderators, co-Admins and me) to neglect to give him Strikes to go along with the private warnings. I've spoken to all current Mods and Admins to ensure that such "nuisance posting" in the future will be considered Strike-able violations so that if it leads to banning, it will not be a shock to the public.

Strike-able/bannable "nuisance posting" is for extreme cases, particularly with long-time members. Solicitors and trolls will not be given due process, but long-time members will definitely be given fair warning. No one should be hesitant about posting legitimate comments or questions. When/if you get to be an annoyance to many, you will know it, as you will be told. iopq knew it.

Rilla is no longer an Administrator. I will be promoting someone to take his place as co-Administrator. Rilla is staying on as Moderator of the Community forum.


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