Renly got what was coming to him, that bastard left my 'two legged spoiler' to die!
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Renly got what was coming to him, that bastard left my 'two legged spoiler' to die!
i wish they would show us more about rickon. he's clearly an important character, but it seems we wont know why for some time.
he's always so dark and angry. gotta be professor xavier like his brother, and probably the evil one or the one who sees bad stuff or something
Fuck that little sadistic asshole king, I want to see his head roll by Tyrion's right hand man
Still can't believe Renly's dead. Lady Stark is rolling deep though now with that butch bodyguard. Bitch can swing a sword.
Renly was too loved to live.
Ned was the first guy who was loved who had lots of power, he died shortly thereafter. Then Renly, and soon to be Robb, I guess. Being at war will keep Robb alive IMO, but shortly after he would become a loved king in relative peacetime, GRRM will have his head
I love how Brann's dream foreshadows something we already know, yet the characters do not. This sort of foreshadowing, where the audience/reader is in on it is much underused imo.
Something I really dislike is how irrational people seem to be. I don't mean that they make dumb decisions, but that a lot of their actions are implausible for being humans. What I'm getting at is something that was fucking rampant in Lost, isn't so bad in GoT, but I did just notice it in the last ep especially
Basically, when absolutely amazing and crazy things happen, the characters do not react accordingly. They're completely desensitized. My guess is it's because the writers are so immersed in the world they've created, that they forget that these sorts of things are new for the characters
Anyways, a good example of this is Cat's and Brienne's reaction to seeing a wraith. That thing was a motherfucking wraith. A magic monster, a demon, something sent by the gods or evil forces or something absolutely insane that they were raised to believe wasn't even real. This type of experience would completely shatter some modes of thought for virtually everybody. I mean, we live in a world where drunks see a faint light in the distance and think it's a fucking UFO. But if that sorta thing actually happened, and was so blunt about it, most couldn't contain themselves
I'm not saying they would start acting crazy (a lot would), but they would at least address it as if it is what it is. But instead, the entire rest of the episode was as if Cat and Brienne were perturbed in no way by seeing this earth-shattering reality. A real-life wraith in their world would have completely dominated their thoughts, they would be freaking out about demons and praying to their gods and all that shit. But instead they did none of that. It was as if the wraith being what it was vanished from their minds
Lost did this like fucking crazy FWIW, and it irritated the shit out of me. It really allows writers to take their stories to shit places when they don't maintain realistic consistency of their characters and world. Just imagine how you would be thinking if you saw a six foot tall spider run down the street; because that's equally as unreal and crazy a thing to happen as Cat and Brienne seeing a fucking demon-ghost kill Renly
At the very least, Davos acknowledged that there is "something bad" about the red woman, but that's still not too plausible. It works in a way because Stannis is so adamant about not hearing any about it, so Davos has to be really diplomatic. But the audience still isn't given the impression that Davos is thinking OMG IT'S A FUCKING DEMON SPAWN IN A WORLD WHERE DEMONS ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE REAL AND IT'S TAKING OVER
These are all highly religious people. Imagine what would happen at church if a puff of black smoke formed into a human, murdered the preacher, then vanished in front of everybody. All bets would be off. Everybody who witnessed that would be going fucking crazy. Not behaviorally so much as the focus of their thoughts
Davos was very freaked out by the shadow. I agree with you about Brienne and Cat though.
Also, Cat can CSI the shit outta that abandoned tower, yet she can't be like "it must have something to do with that evil looking witch lady who seems to hold a lot of sway with Stannis!" Idk, it just seemed like there were a few missing lines of dialogue that would have made that sequence far more fluid and "realistic."
now that I think about it though.. "it looked like Stannis" "I don't know.. it just looked like smoke in the shape of a man.."-- This exchange seemed like they were both in a bit of shock, and their brains were trying to make any sense of it that they could. It's just that there wasn't a good transition into them swearing oaths to each other.
Yeah they get away with a lot of this, actually. Like when Margaery said Brienne killed Renly, Loras says he doesn't believe it. But the reality is Brienne and Cat are both by far the most likely suspects, so it's kinda silly to have Loras so adamantly blow it off his shoulder. But it's all in the name of moving the story in the direction GRRM wants, I guess....Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
The production being fantastic, most aspects of the writing and directing being fantastic, and the whole fantasy thing allows them to get away with a lot of these sort of mistakes. It's not like I could do better though
FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance
I think that the Loras declaring Brienne's innocence for apparently no reason can be explained by there simply not being enough screen time to adequately show why he would feel this way. It was probably far more sensible in the books, and the writers for the show were simply forced to gloss over this fairly minor detail so that the important stuff could be shown and Loras and Marge can be written in the same direction that GRRM had them going.
btw, the speculation on TVWOP can be really good, but the general tone over there is unbelievably annoying. I don't mind all the "Shirtless Gendry, oh my!!!" comments, that's cool... but the complaints about violence/rape/w/e are just absurd. It's a feudal fantasy world. Raping and pillaging and sadistic boy kings are par for the course. If it really bothers you that much, you can go watch Camelot on Showtime (I think it was canceled). I'm sure it's a lot more family friendly.. and also a lot shittier of a show.
Another example: they all seem to think that the four man ranger black ops squad is a horrible idea. No real explanation is given nor asked for when people say this. I really can't figure out why they think it's a bad idea. It's like they are really good at reverse engineering fiction, yet they are really bad at understanding general concepts about warfare and whatnot.
I think Cat is way more implicated than Brienne anyways. But yeah, I assume there's more in the book as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
As for TWoP, I agree. That thread is hard as shit to read. It's pretty much because they're mostly women (mothers). You find them get really uptight when characters like Jon Snow are put into scenarios where they could get hurt
I honestly haven't even read much of that thread for season 2, but did a lot for season 1. It's hard enough to go through reading single lines on 2p2. It's gonna sound hypocritical, but I don't wanna read their essays
Also, I was turned off a wee bit from that thread last season due to some of their speculations being really spot on, so I felt a little spoiled when they happened. Similar happened on 2p2 about the last few eps of Breaking Bad. Not a BB thread, so not talking about that, but 2p2 did get some legit speculations right, and since I sorta expected them to happen, when they did, I was kinda meh about it all
BTW, to be clear, I'm pretty sure the reason they don't like the 4 man black ops is cuz theyre mothers and dont want Jonny to get hurt. They talked all about that stuff last season, so it's probably implied by now.
Going over the thread, see this post. Example of how legit their speculations are. They get most things wrong, but a good chunk of what happens can be found within their thoughts
Completely Unspoiled Speculation - TWoP Forums - Page 187
I've questioned myself that they might be bookreaders, but I really don't think they are. The level of dedication it would take to pull off trolling that thread would be astronomical IMO
I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.
Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juked07
meh, I see what you're saying, but if you're not going to do a complete GoT blackout to avoid spoilers, then I think this thread, the 2p2 thread, and the TVWOP (should it be TVWP?) thread are the safest places to discuss the show.
That's some legit trollingQuote:
Originally Posted by Juked07
As for the thread, I think that while there may be some trolls in there, they're not distinguishable due to the nature of what that would take. They're all wrong on most things, so even if a troll is spoiling stuff, you still wouldn't know it because of all the chaff added to the posts
A few random points for my case: a few speculations I have made up have become true, 2p2 figured out one of the major plot points to Breaking Bad, I have posted a lot of the speculations that came out of the TWoP thread on 2p2 where Dids claimed that no big spoilers have been dropped (so it implies most/all of that stuff is wrong)
As for that specific post, I don't really even think that could be a troll. The details and logics are just too much. Like him saying that everybody who ate an apple in the previous ep would die. That wouldn't have been in the book, but if he was going to book-spoil on those three people dying, he somehow came up with that connection?
Then I think most of his other points for future speculations are simply wrong, but no need to go into detail
I do, however, get your feeling. As I have felt quite spoiled by some speculations. There *could* be trolls on there, but I don't think that guy is one of them (if you would like to discuss why in detail, I could), trolling in that thread is gonna be really hard due to it being super modded, and when the trolling does happen, it is bogged down by the person being forced to also get lots of stuff wrong. Personally, I don't follow each poster, so I only get a generalization of some of what is said in that thread, so if I get "spoiled" it's more along the lines of randomness. Anyways, I don't think there are trolls on there, but I could be wrong
Television (T) Without (Wo) Pity (P) IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
That's what some dude called it when he referenced it in one of the spoilernit discussions from last year in the 2p2 thread
if without gets a lower case "O", then television definitely is getting at least a lowercase "V" if not an uppercase one.
/acronymnittery
Just for shits and giggles, I'll go down that guy's post. I do not think he's a bookreader at all
He got this right, but not entirely. "By mouth" reads as a very specific sort of symbolism, which is the sort of reads he seems to make, and it didn't happenQuote:
1. Everyone seen eating fruit last episode is killed by mouth: Renly (Smokebaby), whore (scepter), blond torturer (rat).
Didn't happenQuote:
2. Brienne fights the Smokebaby but can't stop it.
Didn't happenQuote:
3. Smokebaby kills Renly covertly (e.g. suffocation while sleeping) so Stannis can step in with apparently clean hands.
Anybody who's into figuring out symbolism and how stories work would have guessed that A Man Has A Thirst guy was going to become a bigger character. Relation to The Brotherhood and helping Arya is a pretty logical place to go. Personally, I knew he was a legit character because I looked at the cast on HBO. FYI, last year, TWoP thought the "hooded dude in the cage" (whom this guy turned out to be) was Ser Barristan or a couple others I don't rememberQuote:
4. A Man Has A Thirst returns to help Arya. He's a member of The Brotherhood.
Didn't happen, not gonna happen. Pycelle wouldn't have poisoned Tyrion because his role as ear was more important, so the vial isn't secretly not laxative. And Tyrion wouldn't dare give Joffrey the shits; waaaaaaay too much risk there in getting it done, hoping Teh Joff doesn't get super mad, etcQuote:
5. Tyrion finds a good use for the laxative Pycelle gave him episode before last and Joffrey gets unclogged.
Could happen, but I doubt it. The magic doesn't work that way. Also, it's the poster's standard line of looking to a few pieces of potential foreshadowing. Personally, I have Davos betraying Stannis due to his son dying by fire like Melisandre alluded to. But overall, it looks even more likely that Davos WILL NOT betray Stannis. That's one of GRRM's things i.e. his honorable men are really fucking honorable. Ned would not break, Jorah is loyal to the core, and Davos will be loyal to the core IMOQuote:
6. Stannis becomes evil and Davos must turn on him.
It's almost too obvious to happen, and I suspect it won't. Who's richer than Tyrion? Who treats Bronn better than Tyrion? I think the superficial look at Bronn is that he could betray Tyrion, but the deeper look is that it would be next to impossible for him to do soQuote:
7. Bronn betrays Tyrion for money.
I think this line looks really easy to figure out from the standard perspective, but that they might not be playing Sam like that. This is the sort of character development that happens in Hollywood comedies, but GRRM doesn't play that way, it seems. Something like this could happen though, but I'm not sure it involves "saving Jon" GRRM has yet to play a line that simplistic and standardQuote:
8. Sam's courage is tested and he sacrifices himself to save Jon.
Not this season he ain't. Or maybe he will at the very end. He does have to die because he gave the special sword to Jon and eventually Jorah is gonna have to see the hilt, and realize that his late father trusted Jon (which will forge an eventual Dany/Snow alliance/marriage IMO). Maybe Mormont does die this season, but my guess for why the poster thinks so is because of the foreshadowing of Mormont giving Jon lessons on how to lead. He likes that sort of foreshadowing speculationQuote:
9. Lord Commander Mormont is killed by a White Walker.
Naw he's sticking around. Who's gonna kill him? Teh Joff is probably the only one, but I bet he wouldn't dare. LF is gonna be brokering an alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters while secretly looking to broker a marriage with Margaery for himself. LF is in this for the long haul. For a while I thought he was a goner cuz some of his arcs completed, but he's picking up so many more important roles. Also, he's got his own house sigil; that means he's super important. Just think on that, why would GRRM even mention he's got his own sigil (more than once) if he wasn't keeping him around for big things?Quote:
10. Littlefinger loses his head.
I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.Quote:
FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance
I read both The Hobbit and the first two hundred pages of Fellowship twice. I couldn't get much further than that, but did watch the movies several timesQuote:
Originally Posted by baudib
My read on JRRT was that the lore was too much of a dichotomy. It was great for its time, for sure. Was very original in some ways, but the dichotomy of good vs evil is simply inferior to a more evolved view of the world. In some ways, that dichotomy is fun, but I'm honestly not sure if I can ever get behind it again. When I was a kid, sure I thought it was legit, but that dichotomy just doesn't play that well anymore. It truly never did, only to xtians and the like did it seem to become a thing. The Wire (new, and some of the best work) is a Greek Tragedy (old, and based in reality), after all. Only in our religious imaginations does the dark black of evil fight the bright light of good
On a different level, I think the play of steel, brain, and brawns vs magic is very good. Fantasies usually are much more blunt about their magic and it tends to dominate, but GoT uses it in very limited fashion and is quite mystical about it. For example: the Mother of Dragons is near death of starvation in a desert, while on the other end of the world, a boy dreams through the eyes of his pet. This is much more refined a lore than guys who shoot fireballs after learning a spell.
On a personal level, I like the humanness. No elves, no dwarves, just people being people. WRT my experiences in fantasy, this is a novel concept.
I also like the subtlety. It seems you never truly know what's going on, and I suspect we won't know until the end, and even then may not. In the books I read, the agenda, heroes, villains, and magics were all clear. But in GoT, they're not. Granted, I haven't read anything since maybe the 12th Drizzt book and the Rose of the Prophet trilogy; so it's been over a decade, and stuff may be more evolved now.
Rewatched the ep, I agree that his reactions were right. They didn't give him much time to form those thoughts for the audience as when it first happened, the ep ended, then when he was trying to tell Stannis he had to tread very lightlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Granted, it is "Ice and Fire", so that suggests GRRM is using the regular good vs evil dichotomy. But it's also "The Song of", which suggests it's not a black and white dichotomy, but a colorful spectrum
So far, the story is suggesting there are a whole lot of ways for it to not be black and white
Well...theres certainly wights
Bum dum tssh
:D
edit: This could be taken as a response to all of wufs posts...but it was just in response to his last one.
That there's some play between LF and Margaery is the most obvious thing I've ever seen. She wants to be "the queen", he wants to be ruler of all. The Tyrells and Lannisters will find common ground against Stannis, then eventually LF and Margaery will marry. Who else is Margaery gonna try to become "the queen" with?
Also must say I'm not a fan of the "sexual tension" they briefly hinted at between Jorah and Dany. I don't know what GRRM was trying to write in their relationship, it's hard to do either way, but the show would be better off just leaving out any semblance of Jorah being anything other than super loyal to her as his queen (obv because he feels he must redeem himself for his disloyalties in his past). Could also be that it's just hard to read what's really going on with Dany. For example, they hit on things like Dany's Dothrakiness clashing with her moving up in the world (the tension in the scene with her servants about the dresses and shit, as well as the scene about stealing), but it seems to almost be a throwaway point for the show. I fear that Qarth itself is a throwaway region, and after Dany leaves it, GoT leaves it behind. It seems that could happen with Dany trusting Jorah to get a ship and stuff.
And we don't really even know what happened in that scene. Why did Dany trust Jorah? That was a huuuuuge decision, and we don't quite know what motivations were behind her making it. Does she think he's right, does she not trust any other than him, does she love him, or did GRRM merely throwaway this part of the story in order to get closer to Westeros?
lol boost all over TWoP they sign themselves as TWoP
Also I fucking hate Theon. If he's actually betraying the Starks, I hate hate hate him. I don't think somebody with a soul would act the way he has. Betrayal is one thing, but betrayal so easily is another
A Man is pretty awesome, but I really hate that it reeeeeaaally looks like they're gonna have Arya have A Man kill Tywin. The first was Tickler, second will be the dude with Needle, then third Tywin. Everything about that plot rubs me the wrong way, also I think Tywin is a pretty great character. He's a rare breed of an actual thoughtful man who also wields his power with force
Loras is gonna be a big character. Who was behind the Renly story? It was Loras, he was the one initially telling Renly what was up. Loras was the one put up against Gregor, he was the one the scene with Renly's dead body revolved around. I think we're not seeing it yet, but Loras is a pretty important character
The scene where Cersei says "So clever with your schemes and your plots", then Tyrion says "Schemes and plots are the same thing" was so Arrested Development
In addition, masked lady said, "dragons are fire made flesh"Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib
That is lore to depths that others never seem to hit. Not only is it using dragons as a metaphor, but Danaerys herself is "fire made flesh" in her inability for her flesh to not be burned by fire
The lore is much more pervasive and subtle. Instead of a powerful wizard who casts ice storms, winter itself bears the magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I hate Theon haters. He's such an awesome character. Not awesome in the typical way... but awesome in the same way that The Hound is awesome. Also, unlike all those twats on TWoP, I love everything Greyjoy.
As for A Man.. I think it will be Poliver, then The Mountain. I could be wrong, and I have no solid reason to think anything different, but I just don't think Tywin is going to get got yet, and not by A Man. But if that is how things went down, I wouldn't hate it, because Tywin is a great character, and A Man is rising to be one, so A Man would be elevated to greatness by killing greatness.
Re: Loras-- Ya, I hope so, he's an interesting character and that actor rivals Tywin in the way he commands the screen imo. Every scene he is in, he makes a really big impression.
something little I just noticed... when the guy is soap boxing in the streets, talking shit about Joffrey, you can see Lannister men up on the wall looking on and doing nothing. It's easy to miss, but quite an impressive bit of detail added in.
Also, "She's a sweet innocent girl, I don't blame her at all for you." was a clutch comeback to her blaming him for their mother's death in the previous episode. I like how the writing references something from another episode which is not a key plot point. With most TV viewers being complete droolers, it's quite rare.
Theon is a great character, but I hate who he is.
Actually, you're right about Poliver then The Mountain (if Poliver is the guy with Needle). I forgot about Mountain, but that's probably where they're gonna go. I just really hate killing Tywin like that. There is soooooo much for his character to do that if I were GRRM, I would have written in a different plotline than having him die to A Man. My main reasoning for A Man gonna be killing Tywin had to do with that ballin scene of "anybody can be killed". The Arya/Tywin story is way too good to allow it to end like that though. Things like she'll be his cupbearer for quite some time, he'll probably be promoting her too (because he's clearly smart and his behavior implies that he's finding reason to think she's smart, or at least "of use" and even that he thinks she's hiding something important), then that whole dynamic could be a huge story. So A Man shouldn't be asked to kill Tywin. It would be really stupid of Arya anyways, since he's her sugar daddy. On the flip side, it could be really smart of Arya since killing Tywin could save the North/her family/etc
I feel like Myrcella is actually going to Dorne, and may be used to get the Martels on the Lannisters side. Would be very interesting to see Stannis sandwiched, since Dorne is below him in latitude. I still have Stannis/Melisandre taking over thoughout the series, then Dany and her dragons being viewed as saviors by the audience when they invade. If this is true, I wouldn't be surprised if Dany begins to come off wanting to invade, then the audience has find out if she'll decide to come around to it and thus be the unwitting hero. Not sure how this dynamic plays with Winter though. There are several different plots converging, and only a few can come out alive. So in that sense, it could only be Dany vs Winter, not Melisandre vs Winter. So if Winter comes soon enough, it means Stannis/Melisandre get quashed somewhat soon, probably either by Winter itself or Dany. The final product of this whole storyline (as we know it) has to be Dragons vs Winter though.
It's possible that Tyrion and the wildfire will be able to hold off Stannis and Melisadre, but I honestly do not see any magic people losing to non-magic people for a long time. The story will soon become Lannister vs Stannis and Stark vs Greyjoy, instead of the current Stark vs Lannister. Greyjoy is losing to Stark for sure, but in trying to figure out who loses in Stannis vs Lannister, I have a hard time seeing Lannister win (unless it's a HUGE fucking thing and they end up marginalizing how the story presents Melisandre as extremely powerful). And I don't know where they can go if they lose, would be sick as fuck if they all died, except Tyrion (and hopefully Bronn), who is required to Take the Black or something.
I also think that Stannis is using Melisandre. I think he knows what she's up to, that she's trying to use him, but he's actually using her. The whole him being too in love to see things clearly is almost a little too simplistic. I think even Davos doesn't have a clue that Stannis is playing her.
But then another look at Melisandre is that she's just a prop to get the story going. I would write her as completely foreign in every way (almost like she's the prophet/avatar of a god from a different planet), which would make her extremely powerful and able to do all sorts of sick and cunning shit (like possess people and make her own sort of army, which is where I thought they were going when the wraith showed up). But she's probably just a piece of magic that isn't super powerful, and gets crushed when the jig is up
Interesting read wuf, I wanted to comment on your thoughts on the Qarth story arc.
It seems to me that there is pretty much no way this whole Qarth portion of the storyline ends up finishing quickly / being of little consequence. I also am not yet convinced that Dany is definitely not going to marry the big wealthy black dude of the 13; her line "I look forward to meeting him" re. the potential captain of the 'one ship' that would take her to Westeros, was somewhat unconvincing.
Also there are a few budding plotlines taking place there; what is the deal with the hall of the undying? You may also note that the character that Dany was speaking with in the town square before she was distracted by her dothraki stealing shit was no bit actor; I'd have to look again to make sure though. If correct, it seems somewhat of a waste to use an actor of that caliber as pretty much a one-line background type character, and I'd have to assume more will happen with her.
And, if it needs to be pointed out, I doubt the producers would go to such lengths as to include Qarth in the opening credits sequence if the Dany storyline was only going to be there in passing.
That's all. Looking forward to Sunday!
Yeah fuck Theon that sister-feeling up, entitled brat. It's great to see his people laugh at his attempts to 'lead' them. And as much as I hate the Lannister family (minus the dwarf ofc), Tywin is a fucking man and I don't wanna see him go out this easily.
hey dranger that was a blatant spoiler, thanks
yeah I guess that was a spoiler...DELETED.
fucking dranger FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I read it differently. I believe Dany loves Jorah, but doesn't realize it. Her exclaiming "What do you want!?" was a bombshell of tension of the more intimate variety. If it wasn't, the actors and directors played it wrong. I think that Dany was taken aback at his claims of her having a good heart, then she decided to trust his opinion fully. This is what the acting in that scene looked like to me. There were some serious tells on Dany's part, just not sure exactly what she was trying to give off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
My guess is the Hall of the Undying is for setting the stage, or maybe they try to do something significant, but it doesn't last for much of the story. I do think that chick she was talking to was a bit actor, it's the masked woman that was not. I have no clue about herQuote:
Also there are a few budding plotlines taking place there; what is the deal with the hall of the undying? You may also note that the character that Dany was speaking with in the town square before she was distracted by her dothraki stealing shit was no bit actor; I'd have to look again to make sure though. If correct, it seems somewhat of a waste to use an actor of that caliber as pretty much a one-line background type character, and I'd have to assume more will happen with her.
The main reason I think that Qarth is "throwaway" is because it seems everything on Essos is. It's all about this Iron Throne on Westeros, which is just weird to me since Essos is fucking bigger and probably richer and more powerful. The Dothraki are probably a thing of the past by now. I mean, the "Khaleesi" story is on life support. I'm positive that GoT spends a lot of time in non-Westeros places (as it has), but it appears that all those could just be transitional phases. We were all ginned up for the Dothraki horde dynamic, but that probably won't happen; likewise Qarth will probably come and go. Qarth isn't even a well thought out region. It's a trading mecca in the middle of a Garden of Bones. Um, what? GRRM probably didn't spend enough time on figuring out Qarth, or all of Essos for that matter.
The would. They did it for Riverrun or the Riverlands or the Twins or whatever, and that hasn't seen much action. Several characters and plotlines have all but died too. Tyrion's dagger, Alliser Thorne, and Barristan Selmy come to mindQuote:
And, if it needs to be pointed out, I doubt the producers would go to such lengths as to include Qarth in the opening credits sequence if the Dany storyline was only going to be there in passing.
Agreed that Theon is one of the most interesting characters. Abandoned by his father, raised with the Starks but has to identify by and be proud of his Greyjoy name, finally meets his father and family and is basically abandoned again since he's been socialized by another house.
Will he fight for the Starks as an honorable man or with the Greyjoys to reclaim his lost identity and family or will he fight for himself as some hybrid honorable man who takes what he can?
Tune in next time!
would have been so much better with a two button NES controller.
Ya, im left wondering what the others do. Quip? Declare yourself king/queen? Drink?
<LEFT> + X kills a major characterQuote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
'Y' has the character explain his motivations while having sex with a prostitute.
I thought that Stannis said "we'll not sail for KL without Melisandre", but somebody said he said "we'll sail for KL without Melisandre". So I don't know which he said, but if they're not bringing Meli to KL then Stannis stands no chance of winning. I feel like GRRM might have a soft spot on his heart for the Stannis character, but he's not beating up Tyrion on just brawn
he said "we'll sail w/o her"
ya, def w/o
I found this funny. That site has got to be the only one with soooo many women. Their style is just different. They treat the show, the thread, and those involved interacting in the thread more seriously, which is such a girl thing to do. But they do end up getting a ton of interesting and unique perspectives. Example, I felt that, even though he was never introduced, Stannis was a main character back in season one because the TWoP chicks kept referencing "the elusive crustacean" and whatever because Ned (or Renly) said he had the personality of a lobsterQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
Nope, no body wants to talk about the smoke monster on the show anymore. What show you think this is, Lost? John Locke woulda made a good Eddard Stark though.
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
Laughed good at Arya and A Man. That was just great
Dragon plotline is going best as it could. I only hope that the House of the Undying isn't just imposters, but have some legit powers. They won't be able to keep the dragons for long, though, because they're probably just imposters. The rich black dude chaperoning Dany around to get ships didn't make much sense. She may have to marry him now, in order to get the dragons back. I feel like he wouldn't coerce her into that sorta deal, he wants her to make that decision on her own
Theon dies before the season is done. His character seems almost in death throes. They've been all over the place with him, and have had trouble actually showing who he is/his motivations IMO. Or maybe I didn't see that he had such a villainous betrayal in him because he was just a douche, and a lot of people act in the douchey ways he did, so it just slipped my mind, perhaps.
I think Jon Snow's captive is fucking awesome. My type of girl. Part of me wants to see an actual love story develop. Not because it would help the GoT story, but that I always wanna see that shit because I'm the sappiest sap in all sapland
I'm now hoping that instead of Sansa poisoning The Joff, Hound bludgeons him to death to save Sansa from his wrath. That won't happen though because The Joff is getting put in his place quite neatly now. Sad, really; I was hoping for him to play supreme villain. Since last season, it was pretty clear Hound cares for Sansa
Tywin is GOAT
woah.. fuck.. I just got off work, and I clicked the thread out of habit, and just started to ready our last post wuf... only read like half of the first sentence before I realized it was referencing something I had never seen...
This is like putting on your winter jacket for the first time of the year and finding a $20 bill in the pocket. I completely spaced on the fact that there's a new ep tonight. Fuck yeah.
after watching: wow, I don't even know what to say, that was a downright phenomenal episode. I guess I'll just touch on a few different things..
Osha's plan was so cool. Normally she would have slept with Theon and then waited til he was asleep so she could tip toe to the key ring that he kept around his belt which he only takes off when he has sex. Instead she simply did it so that she had credibility with his men should she be unfortunate enough to encounter one.
I really like how they have juxtaposed Robb against the late Renly. Renly was generally well liked, but it was all show. In private he was a bit of a douche and basked in how people seemed to worship him. Robb commands the same sort of loyalty and respect from his men, but it's not a show. He is at war, not playing at it. It's like a Roosevelt vs. Patton. Both have the loyalty and reverence of the people, but one is a politician-- and one is the real deal.
Poor Theon... not even Brann took him seriously when he burst into his chambers. Brann's reaction was near comical. "Like, dude, what are you even doing?"
Tywin is obv on point. That guy is just such a boss. It was cool hearing him talk about his dad... it seems to be a subtle suggestion that he was very much like Ned. Which would be very subtle foreshadowing for Arya, or the Starks in general. I doubt the latter though, as Robb seems to very much be his father's son.
A Man and Arya scene was great once again. Speaking of Arya, I really liked how she got such a kick out of being praised by Tywin. It showed very much that she is really still just a kid. Oh, and what was up with the LF thing. Did he catch that it was her or not? I would think that he had to, simply because he is very astute, and it's a bit of a cheap way to get suspense if nothing comes of it. But even if that were the case, I wouldn't mind-- but the english lit nits on TWoP definitely will pick it apart.
The little throw away knowledge about how Maestors are loyal to a castle, not to a house was cool. Bits like this truly help to flesh out the world.
Not sure what to say about Dany's storyline. Not in a bad way-- I thoroughly enjoyed the Qarth scenes, but I just don't have any much to say, except that I'm excited to see it play out.
Back to Winterfell, the guy with the flayed man as his sigil's bastard is going to lead the charge to take back Winterfell. Without Robb around to temper these guys, things might get nasty.
OH SHIT.. how have I not mentioned Tyrion smacking the shit out of Joffrey's bitch ass again. What a fucking boss. That whole scene/series of scenes were shot really well. The chaos felt very real. The streets being in a full on riot, Sansa almost getting gang raped, everyone shouting commands, Tyrion losing his shit...
Can't find a .gif yet, but it's already looped on youtube Tyrion slaps Joffrey... AGAIN! - YouTube
Theon is not cut out for what he's trying to do. The first night of his campaign and he's trusting any robe-dropping slut that asks. He can't fight for the Starks now, since they're honor bound to have his head.
Renly was not two-faced or somehow different in private, he was just trying to become a different king than Robb. Renly wanted to be a king for his people to love, which has its merits since it probably means great social policy during his reign, while Robb is trying to be a king for his people to follow. It also has his merits since his would be a kingdom of laws. You should have some respect for the dead. Renly didn't bask in how people worshiped him, he understood his skill-set, his tool-kit, for being king. We see Robb developing a different skill set with all his military decisions.
I suspect that the blue-lipped methrock moonshiners don't divine any great power from their drugs. That they're like native american drugs that give great insight and wisdom to those who journey and affect the decisions they make in business but are still just drugs.
Just commenting on how the characters seem to have just forgotten about the magical smoke monster thing. Cat and Brienne get back to Robb, dont look shaken up at all...dont really talk about it again, its like it never happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Oh I see. Yeah that's trueQuote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
I thought you were pulling a dranger by suggesting the smoke monster makes a return
I will never comment on any opinions or theories, nor talk about future events, and am only talking about past events that have strong TV Show support and have previously been discussed itt to avoid suggesting importance.
Also Locke wouldnt have given away that Eddard was gonna die. Curse you Sean Bean, you two legged spoiler!
MagnificentQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Ya, I may have overstated what I was trying to illustrate. But it was certainly all a game to Renly, he was very much a politician. He was very much into the aesthetics of it all. I'm not saying he was a bad guy, but his motivations for being such a good guy were less than pure. While Robb's motivations for doing what he is doing are steeped in honor and duty. Robb isn't a down to earth, friendly guy as a means to some end, he just is a good guy... he is his father's son.
Up thread wuf predicted that Theon's remaining breaths are numbered, but I'm not sure I concur. If Theon dies, then what comes of the Greyjoys? Theon's arc may seem exhausted, but the Greyjoy arc isn't, and for their arc to continue I'd think Theon needs to live. But how he continues to live? I really don't know. Things are looking grim for our favorite weak willed latchkey.
edit: rilla, wtf.. did you tell me to respect the dead? They are dead, fuck them. And on top of that, no one is even dead, it's a story... you know, fiction, not real.
Would like to thank everyone for making this much easier to mod lately.
http://i.imgur.com/vgHC3.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
In the books, the mods are very respected.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
Stannis' Shadow and Lady Stark's reaction - Lady Stark didn't even introduce her new BFF to Robb in that scene so a lot of details were kind of left out. Besides, what does telling Robb do but satisfy your need to see them bewildered by what they saw? They don't know what they saw and if they'll see it again. But if they do, I'm sure they'll mention the connection.
Where was Jorah this episode? Where was Bronn during the riot?
The Greyjoy story can be told without Theon. His role is really just in him being a total cunt. I'm not sure if he has much role outside of being that total cunt, and he's already reached peak cuntiness. However, he could go more cunty, I just doubt that GRRM took him there. What I mean is that he most certainly could be written as Uber Joffrey, so to speak. Where the The Joff has been marginalized, it seems, Theon has some crazy epic desire to be respected, yet he's so damn cruel and dumb that he may only be able to get worse and worse and worse until somebody kills him
Come to think of it, I like that line, and hope they play him like that. I wanna see him betray his own family and try to get back in good with the Starks. Not that it would make any sort of sense or that it would work, but that's the sort of thing somebody like him would do
Also, he was eating fruit. 1) How the fuck do they get fruit up in the damn tundra? 2) Eating fruit could mean he's gonna die. I would HATE it if HBO did that though because it's so fucking dumb if it's a running symbol. It does work for a one off, but that's it.
Nitpick: Greyjoys could never invade the way they did. They're pirates who live on rocks and ships. Winterfell is in the middle of a damn continent, LOL at pirates even knowing horses well enough to get the job done in the time scale they did
A Man is easily my favorite character right now. I hope Arya doesn't tell him to kill Littlefinger though. It would be pretty shitty writing if LF needed to die for essentially the same reason the illiterate dude did, and I think her final kill should be saved for quite some time.
Part of me has Robb screwing the pooch big time by falling in love with that chick. Like he ends up losing the right alliance, then a specific battle, then becomes Lannister's prisoner or something
I want the Nightswatch to get fucked. Not that I don't like them, but I just can't respect anything that takes a vow of celibacy. So I hope that Snow falls in love and perhaps betrays the order. My hope is that he gets captured by the wildlings, and finds that things are different than he was taught and Benjen is still alive and had "defected". There needs to be some really deep and important mystery in the whole north of the wall stuff, and I want Snow to undergo some shifts in his belief system
Bronn being gone was certainly weird, but I assumed Jorah being gone was because he's out looking for a boat
Ya, I think he's just heading down a path of self destruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
1) what kind of fruit was he eating? Apples store very well. They are routinely available at farmers markets in Chicago well into the winter. 2) Ya, on one hand I like the symbolism, but on the other if it becomes that easy to predict who will die, it would be pretty lame. I don't think that's he case though, I think they strategically broke that symbolism when they had A Man eating (what I assume was) The Tickler's fruit while he was perched up on the wall.Quote:
Also, he was eating fruit. 1) How the fuck do they get fruit up in the damn tundra? 2) Eating fruit could mean he's gonna die. I would HATE it if HBO did that though because it's so fucking dumb if it's a running symbol. It does work for a one off, but that's it.
I think you're wrong. What timescale are we using? From the show itself we know that a slow moving caravan of mostly young boys and a prison cart had expectations to do a 30mi march in one day. Unless we know fairly precise distances and a pretty accurate timeline, I don't think we can really say that this is unrealistic. I know TWD is off air, and you have excess nittery building up in your brain, but I think you're reaching here.Quote:
Nitpick: Greyjoys could never invade the way they did. They're pirates who live on rocks and ships. Winterfell is in the middle of a damn continent, LOL at pirates even knowing horses well enough to get the job done in the time scale they did
Ya, A Man is a great character. I loved their scene, but I did think the A Man doppelganger was borderline cartoonish, but I'm fine with it. I don't think Arya kills LF, I'd actually assume that he is already gone from Harrenhal. I was super happy with the urgency twist that forced her to kill someone who was A) not on her list and B) not really guilty of much besides being stupid, a little mean, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. Killing the people on her list can be morally justified-- with this guy it becomes a little bit of a grey area. But even if you don't agree with that, it's still fantastic story telling to have a wrench thrown in the gears like that.Quote:
A Man is easily my favorite character right now. I hope Arya doesn't tell him to kill Littlefinger though. It would be pretty shitty writing if LF needed to die for essentially the same reason the illiterate dude did, and I think her final kill should be saved for quite some time.
I think this could be interesting, but I don't see it happening. I think by the end of the season...Quote:
Part of me has Robb screwing the pooch big time by falling in love with that chick. Like he ends up losing the right alliance, then a specific battle, then becomes Lannister's prisoner or something
1) Tywin is dead
2) Lannisters are fucked, they lose KL
3) Tyrion has the wildfire made for and transported up to the wall before everything goes to complete shit for him and his in Kings Landing. Possibly Tyrion goes to the wall himself in exile.
The only real problem with this is how Tyrion and Jamie are handled. Less so Jamie, but still, losing both those characters would be a huge loss to the show.
Ya, a twist on how we have been taught to think of the wildlings would be interesting. More than likely though I have a feeling that Snow and the girl will encounter White Walkers, and be forced to fight together to survive. Either way, there has to be some way that the girl stops being such a liability to Snow's life, because she doesn't seem to be a throw away character.Quote:
I want the Nightswatch to get fucked. Not that I don't like them, but I just can't respect anything that takes a vow of celibacy. So I hope that Snow falls in love and perhaps betrays the order. My hope is that he gets captured by the wildlings, and finds that things are different than he was taught and Benjen is still alive and had "defected". There needs to be some really deep and important mystery in the whole north of the wall stuff, and I want Snow to undergo some shifts in his belief system
*edit: supporting the Tywin dying predictions, he is an awesome character who can't die without us getting to know him. Well, here we are, hearing him talk about his childhood and his relationship with his father... he may as well be munching on a nice juicy apple.
You're probably right on both pointsQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
LOL. Why won't Rickon just stay inside the house?!Quote:
I think you're wrong. What timescale are we using? From the show itself we know that a slow moving caravan of mostly young boys and a prison cart had expectations to do a 30mi march in one day. Unless we know fairly precise distances and a pretty accurate timeline, I don't think we can really say that this is unrealistic. I know TWD is off air, and you have excess nittery building up in your brain, but I think you're reaching here.
On a more serious note, nothing about the Greyjoy story makes a whole lot of sense. I think it's a great idea, but the logistics of pirates who live by the iron price being big enough and skilled enough to be a reasonable threat to the Starks is just lol. At best, the Greyjoys would be unruly bandits that are just hard to catch, but when caught, the actual army would wipe the floor with them. I guess you *might* be able to say that they're able to support a large population on the Iron Islands due to immense fisheries, but they simply don't have the tools to engage an inland campaign. They don't even have their own horses. Even if you assume that they all somehow spend lots of time off the Iron Islands handling horses (because they most certainly can't support them on the islands), they simply can't be that effective without their own stock. So they basically raided Tully's (Tommen's? Tories?) Square on foot, won, then stole the horses of those they raided, beat up a bunch of actual land warriors with better equipment, and made the trek up to Winterfell
The Greyjoys could not be as efficient in both travel and fighting on land as non-pirates. They just couldn't. Now, that doesn't mean that this part of the story couldn't happen, weirder stuff happens, but the whole idea pirates being more than bandits is something out of fantasy. But it is a fantasy, so I guess. Ultimately, this isn't what matters. What matters is how they tell the story, not that they stick rigidly to non-fiction standards
I could see that happening, but for some reason, no other party feels like the "rulers" more than the Lannisters. It would be a pretty huge shift in the story to take them out. There appears to be four main stories from the very beginning; Stark, Lannister, Dany and her dragons, and Winter is Coming/The WallQuote:
I think this could be interesting, but I don't see it happening. I think by the end of the season...
1) Tywin is dead
2) Lannisters are fucked, they lose KL
3) Tyrion has the wildfire made for and transported up to the wall before everything goes to complete shit for him and his in Kings Landing. Possibly Tyrion goes to the wall himself in exile.
The only real problem with this is how Tyrion and Jamie are handled. Less so Jamie, but still, losing both those characters would be a huge loss to the show.
I want to see some crazy stuff north of the wall. If you think my nitting on the Greyjoys is bad, my nitting on wildlings/Mance Rayder forces would be waaaaaaaaaay worse. They're basically living in eskimo territory, yet there's over a hundred thousand gathered in army? lolwut?Quote:
Ya, a twist on how we have been taught to think of the wildlings would be interesting. More than likely though I have a feeling that Snow and the girl will encounter White Walkers, and be forced to fight together to survive. Either way, there has to be some way that the girl stops being such a liability to Snow's life, because she doesn't seem to be a throw away character.
I feel like there needs to be some serious mysticism in the north. Things like them coming across enormous oasis-like caves with tons of hot springs and growing vegetation. I doubt they're gonna do that, and the story is *cooler* without that, but it's not realistic at all. But if they did, they could then go deeper into some serious lore of why the north is so damn important, why Walkers exist, perhaps those old "crueler" gods are really the only true gods...
Besides, I think I'm on team Mansraedar (much cooler name than that dumb Mance Rayder George Lucas ejaculate) simply because I love that wildling ginger. Is it a personal problem that I like aggressive, manipulative chicks?
Pretty muchQuote:
*edit: supporting the Tywin dying predictions, he is an awesome character who can't die without us getting to know him. Well, here we are, hearing him talk about his childhood and his relationship with his father... he may as well be munching on a nice juicy apple.
Um, seems pretty clear that the greyjoys have an advantage in the north right now due to the Stark host being in the southern lands. Additionally, the remaining defensive force in Winterfell was sent to to retake Torrhen's Square, leaving a skeleton crew of only a few guys which was easily taken by Theon's attack.
Yes it is clear, but it couldn't be anything other than raiding. The Greyjoy story has been portrayed as campaign to conquer and rule the north, that's what I don't like. If it was portrayed as raiding then returning to their pirate island, that would actually be fantasticQuote:
Originally Posted by Renton
But they shouldn't have the slightest shot in hell in actually conquering the north. They don't have the numbers, the farmland, the tools, or the connections. Maybe it was portrayed differently in the book, but if Balon thinks he's gonna sit at the head of Winterfell, he's got another thing coming. Even if the Stark forces were completely wiped out, the Lannisters would just stroll on up there and lay a strong pimp hand
A raiding aspect of the Greyjoy campaign is fantastic though. Like if their plan is to blitz through, rape and pillage, then scurry on back to their island stronghold before the Starks can counter, then that's pretty smart.
Quoting bc Jon Snow's captive girl is indeed fucking awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Wait so is Amory Lorch the name of the dude A Man killed? Is that not the same dude who killed Syrio Forel?
I will say boost you were right about Tyrion and The Joff. I didn't expect teh pImp to push his shit in the way he has. I figured Teh Joff for a much more aggressive loose cannon than that
Lorch killed Yoren.
The guy who killed Forel is a member of the Kingsguard, I believe the same guy who was ordered to slap around Sansa by Joffrey.
But Lorch is the dude Arya had A Man kill?
If so, that fits a particular line. Was not Lorch somebody Arya wanted to get revenge on in the first place i.e. somebody she was whispering in her sleep?
Yes, Lorch was killed by A Man. I watched it and I'm not exactly sure how that was accomplished. Lorch was the guy who fucked up on sending one of Tywin's messages because he can't read.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
non-spoilerish infoSpoiler:(A Man's name is Jaqen, btw.)
I'm not sure on the names Arya recited in her prayers, for sure it was Cersei, Joffrey, the Hound, and some others. It would make sense for Arya to want to kill Lorch but she had quite a list going.
lol i totally know he's jaqen. A Man is so much cooler. His dialogue is some of the best there is
A man has a name!
A Girl cannot tell A Man how exactly he must name a thing
HEY
I see what you did there :cut:
Also, its a sexism joke!
Im slow, bite me.
I agree it's cooler, I sorta didn't want you to stop calling him A Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
A man is seen eating a piece of fruit when he kills the tickler. Or at least, I think he is. Looked like an apple to me
Here's how I'm hoping they play Snow's story:
Jon and Ygrette come across a Walker ritual like from the first episode, it's made up of Jon's dead companions. They run and hide, then after they find their spot, Ygrette convinces Jon to finally make that fire (because that's the only way to survive a Walker attack). Shortly after, the Walkers attack them, but they're kept at bay, and suddenly Ghost shows up and kills one. Ygrette is then shown there's something special about Jon, and Jon is forced to follow her to the wildlings encampment because if he did not, he would die since he's all alone
Also the Littlefinger/Tyrell story:
LF brokers an alliance with the Tyrells by way of marrying Margaery with Jaime. Obviously, this happens after Lannisters and Starks come to peace, and exchange their captives. This could happen, logistically. Another thought is Margaery marrying Tywin, but I'm not sure they'd do that. Overall, I like a sneaky play between Margaery and LF marrying down the line because it's another added dynamic and it's niftier than just repeating the tired "she married a Baratheon for an alliance, but he's dead, so now she marries a Lannister..."
Come to think of it, marrying Tyrion and Margaery would be pretty neat. Could happen. I just hope to GOD that they don't marry Margaery and Teh Joff. I feel like Teh Joff is on the way out. Tyrion said a few eps ago, "Joff can't be helped, it's everybody else I'm worried about", then in the last ep he directed them to get Joff's younger brother, the prince, back to safety when he realized some shit was gonna go down in the streets. Personally, I think Teh Joff as king is pretty dumb if he doesn't do lots of stupid ass crazy shit. I just don't see how him being king changes without the Lannisters losing altogether
I don't know if this has been revealed or not. I think it's been mentioned, if not it should be obvious if you think about it:
Spoiler:at this point, some of us book readers are as in the dark about stuff going on as you
Spoiler:the Kingsguard are celibate, like the Night's Watch
Lord Renly was a fruit and Lord Stark and King Baratheon ate fruit in season 1 and they all died.
QED on the fruit thing.
When did Ned eat fruit? I don't remember Robert eating any either, but I don't doubt it...
lol rilla, wp.
Fek that last ep was painful to watch all the Theon stuff. He's a pampered brat and now he's trying to play the hardass to impress his daddy's people who will never accept his soft tits, and watching him poorly commit to his betrayal makes me cringe. The actor playing him deserves props tho.
Man that greasy tomboy he nailed went from a 2/10 to a 7/10 when she disrobed, eh?. butterface but slammin' body amirite? I hope she kills Theon, that'd be cool but it probably won't go down like that.
ya looks like theon fucked up royally, as bran rickon osho and hodor escaped. looking forward to how he takes his dad and sister's disappointment
"You let...a crippled child...escape..."
From their journey south back to King's Landing.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qjz9Wwx6vzc/0.jpg
boom... it seems like this fruit thing has legs...
Shae ate fruit as well in her first scene as Sansa's handmaiden.
i may stop watching the show in protest if everybody who eats fruit dies. that is just some of the worst writing possible
meh... it doesn't mean they will die in the next ep... we can assume that most people on screen will die, cuz this show has balls like that.
aren't you still watching walking dead? bluff...called...
excellent call. you winQuote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
A Man's infiltration of the Lannisters has me intrigued. At first, before we realized he was a super ninja, I just figured that he joined up. But now... now I feel like he managed to subdue a soldier during the chaos following Yoren's death, and then don his garb, Agent 47 style. This is so much cooler than what I first thought. I really hope he doesn't just vanish from the show after wish three is granted. If he does leave the story, I hope he has a bad ass exit, like a quick scene showing him 'subdue' and assume the identity of another person. He's one of the few strong characters that could be written off the show in a way where he doesn't die.
I think A Man is becoming one of my favorite characters of all time. He's like the perfect cross between handsome and rugged, serious and playful, badass and thoughtful, loyal and unpredictable
It could also be that he looks like Brad Pitt. I used to fucking hate Brad Pitt because all the chicks love him (so all that haterade in my veins began flowing), but after I watched some of his better roles, he turned out to be a legit as fuck actor