aren't you 2 suspicious about cereus's intentions if they're still letting U.S. players play..?
aren't you 2 suspicious about cereus's intentions if they're still letting U.S. players play..?
There's always the possibilty the their payment processors are legit, since this whole thing is more about illegal bank stuff rather than actual poker. But of course, there's no way to be sure, and play at your own risk of the smaller networks getting frozen/leaving US markets as well in the future.
Edit: There's also the chance that the government just hasn't gotten to those networks yet either, but I can't imagine why they'd leave those networks alone if they had the evidence of illegal banking like they did with Stars/FTP/UB.
Yeah. I'm not sure what good it does for them (there's a rumor they're not letting new accts sign up so possibly no huge cash grab). Sure, rake, but seems to me the numbers are way down even for them so it's not like it's ridiculous numbers there either.
I mean at this point I'm going under the assumption that I'm almost certainly fucked so I guess that's why I'm not acting like I'm losing my mind. I lost my mind on Friday/Saturday and came to terms with the fact that all is mostly likely lost. If I ever see any portion of what's in my acct I'll be extremely happy.
on the QJ broadcast this lawyer was on there and she made a very interesting point.
about how this was attack on the three sites was classified that it seems like there are other charges that the DoJ has not yet taken action on. She was saying that it very well could be people like Howard Lederer being indicted or it very well could be the other poker sites out there getting shut down.
I'm assuming the lawyer wasn't someone involved in the process? It would be a massive breach in confidentiality to go on the show and give unannounced evidence/preceding information like that. The information however is still a very useful prediction of what could happen. (Inb4 who trust laywers) That info seems to back the "wait and see" plans a lot of people are thinking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by vaks
Seperate note, I'm assuming they've pulled the Pokerstars Big Game TV show? I usually watch it when at work, and it went to a couple infomercials tonight. I'm not surprised they pulled it (unless it just wasn't airing this week?), but I am surprised at how quick it was pulled.
I did watch Poker After Dark PLO they had on, but I don't think I saw a single FTP ad, which makes sense.
Anyone know if they Big Game was infact pulled?
Pokerstars reply to my attempt at changing my address to Perth, WA
Hello Samuelm,
Thank you for your email.
Unfortunately, we are unable to assist you with a country/address
change at this time.
We will endevour to provide you with further assistance as soon
as the situation is clearer.
If you wish to visit the Cashier to request a cashout, you may
still do so without further delay.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you, and we
thank you for your understanding.
Regards,
Silke
PokerStars Security Team
And then this is their response to my email asking them to void a bounced check they sent me
Hello Samuel,
Thank you for your email.
We are sorry to hear that your cheque has been returned. In order
to assist you further, please provide us with a scanned copy or
screen capture of the front and back of your bounced cheque. If
you have been charged any administrative fees by your bank due to
this return, please also send us proof of those bank charges
(i.e. a scanned copy of your bank statement).
Once we receive these copies we will contact our processor and
investigate the matter urgently.
To send a screen capture please do the following:
1. Press the "Alt" or "fn" button and the "Prnt Scrn" buttons
together while you are in the screen you want to capture.
2. Paste (Ctrl+V) the image into your Paint program
3. Click on "File" then choose "Save" (remember where you save
the file)
4. Send an email to us and choose the "Attach" option to add the
saved screen capture to your email as an attachment
5. To attach the file, browse your computer for the folder you
saved the screen capture in and then click "Open" to attach it
6. Send to [email protected]
If the instructions above fail to work you may wish to view an
illustrated guide found on the following link.
Learn how to make a screenshot / take-a-screenshot.org
We apologize for any inconvenience caused. Thank you for your
cooperation.
Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns,
we will
gladly address them for you.
Best regards,
Maggie C.
PokerStars Payment Services
FML I would've liked to read 'and we will refund your account' rather than 'we will look into it urgently'
They no longer let Americans play either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
I just sat down at a table...
Aren't people suspicious of them thieving bastards anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
OngBonga?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I can still play there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
Yeah, apparently I'm the only asshole getting screwed. :( FMLQuote:
Originally Posted by NobleTruths
LOL at this from the DOJ press release:
You mean they're taking money on almost every hand played??? I'm outraged!!Quote:
Of the billions of dollars in payment transactions that the Poker Companies tricked U.S. banks into processing, approximately one-third or more of the funds went directly to the Poker Companies as revenue through the "rake" charged to players on almost every poker hand played online.
Damn, this sucks, I loved playing o Poker Stars and I was starting to get a little bit better. Fuck I guess it's back to those damn Facebook Games.
Hello Marc,
We apologize for the delay in responding to your email.
Although you will be able to cash out via the PokerStars Cashier as per normal, we are unfortunately unable to immediately process cashout requests for US players as a result of the legal developments in the United States. We are making it a priority to work with the relevant authorities to secure the return of funds as soon as possible. We will promptly provide you with additional information as soon as it becomes available.
We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your patience.
Regards,
Yannick
PokerStars Support Team
Did anyone else see this article? Baby-faced Aussie high flyer Daniel Tzvetkof on bail | thetelegraph.com.au
Check out the date it was written...
how can pokerstars cheques bounce? Do they not come from Pokerstars bank account or are they from a merchant account???? Heard a few people say this and its puzzling me
US people have been successfully cashing out according to the QJcast, which is completely awesome btw. I've been listening non-stop since Friday.
Easy since when?
We've all had cashouts processed, but I haven't heard of an American have them hit their actual bank accounts.
No, that's the entire crux of this money laundering problem. You get checks from their payment processors, not from Pokerstars.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Not sure, I just heard it on the Quadjacks podcast. It was a Stars cheque btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
They did say ten mins later however, Stars emailed the same guy today telling him they wouldnt be able to process cashouts hereafter. So I guess it's back to square one.
Sorry.
WHOEVER NEGGED ME, GO AND DIE
I WAS REPORTING WHAT WAS SAID
FAG
Sry if this has been posted already, epic song!
YouTube - Party at the DOJ
wow... This just in! Forum reps: srsbsns.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Lol. There is even jargon for such a thing? Happen often?Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Warning: homosexuals reportedly negging forum users undeservedly.
FTR represent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
Don't worry, improper use of derogatory homosexual terms should improve your rep super-quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
neggers
i'm setting an example here this kind of crap will not be tolerated. he's temp banned. please use some common sense people. this series of events sucks for everyone but its no excuse for being a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
tyQuote:
Originally Posted by bikes
don't tell me you didnt smile even a little bit at "neggers"?
edit: not arguing against temp hammer, obv fine considering other post as well
Haha reminds me of that South Park where Stan's dad goes on Wheel of Fortune... lulz
ohhhhhh naggerzQuote:
Originally Posted by kdawgy80
anyone else slightly amused by point 10 in the FTP terms of service.. outlining that fraudulent transactions will not be tolerated..
the bounced check was credited back to my pokerstars account. my money is halfway home!
Back on topic:
Okay...I'll try to be succinct, but I'm looking for somebody to check my logic on this and this was the first website I thought of.
Department of Justice in the USA seized several payment processors for 3 of the biggest online poker sites. Pokerstars, FullTilt and UltimateBet. They are using the Safe Port Act of 2006 as a basis and claiming that it was a money laundering scheme. Pertinent, in my opinion, information:
SAFE Port Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia states specificallyTitle VIII of the Act is also known as the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (or UIGEA). This title (found at 31 U.S.C. §§ 5361–5367) "prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with the participation of...Money laundering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia defines money laundering asMoney laundering is the practice of disguising the origins of illegally-obtained money. Ultimately, it is the process by which the proceeds of crime are made to appear legitimate. The money involved can be generated by any number of criminal acts, including drug dealing, corruption, accounting and other types of fraud, and tax evasionhttp://www.mauinews.com/page/content.de ... tml?nav=18 explains why Poker is not gambling, to whitPoker is not gambling. Anyone trying to classify it as such does not understand the game. Poker is a skills game much like bridge, chess, backgammon, golf and bowling. Yet, if anyone were to organize a bridge tournament with prize money, no one would think twice about allowing it. The perception of poker comes from what people see in movies and on television in old Westerns. Nothing could be further from the truth in today's modern game. Today's game is one of mathematics where players can win a hand not just by the luck of their cards, but by out-playing their opponents and forcing someone with a better hand to fold.So my question is...from how I see it, IF money laundering is the practice of disguising the origins of illegally obtained money, and UIGEA says that it prohibits gambling businesses from accepting payments, but it's common knowledge that poker is not gambling, how does this tie together?
It's been upheld that poker isn't gambling: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... oker_N.htmCOLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — South Carolina poker players may not be sure when to fold 'em even after a judge ruled Thursday that Texas Hold 'em is a game of skill.I'd like opinions on this.
The main problem with this is that the payment processors were lying to the US banks about the money. Instead of saying "this is money to/from a poker player to/from a poker site", they say "this is money to/from an International Fund" (or whatever they mask it with). A lot of this is simply because the banks were lied to (I think a word used frequently is 'tricked') by payment processors into handling poker ("gambling") money, and the funds go in and out of the banks, which is laundering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trons
Which the UIGEA is against obviously.
Edit: the usual /imo at the end.
My opinion is that the entire case hinges upon the definition of poker as a game of chance or skill.
If it's a game of chance then all the charges apply.
If it's a game of skill (the big court's opinion, not ours) then poker is not illegal under the UIGEA, therefore the money was not obtained illegally, therefore no money laundering.
The problem is the bank and wire fraud: hiding the actual nature of the transactions by showing false companies to get the banks to accept the payments.
Hmm, doesn't the pornography and adult novelty industry do something similar to avoid embarrassing their customers.
Either way it's going to be quite a while before any politician will come anywhere near this issue to get legislation passed through congress and quite a while before the legal case is decided. However, if the courts rule that poker does not fall under the pervue of the UIGEA, even if the big 3 get convicted of bank fraud, then I think the flood gates for online poker will open.
I'd use the word luck, not chance, when defining the arguments of skill or not.
they are pretty much screwed on the bank fraudQuote:
Originally Posted by Shotglass
http://www.donkdown.com/forum/myths-...&relocate=true
Where is this person getting their facts? None of the myths or facts spouted are either. I would recommend this person learn what a fact is before spouting off this crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
I tried to cash out and haven't had the money show up in my account yet. Should I just wait and see what happens, or cancel the request.
It's irrational, but I'd rather have my money somewhere where I can see Balance: x,xxx.xx, than have it just floating around somewhere not in any account.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pres...reementspr.pdf
Great news!
{Edited to reflect great instead of good news}
holy crap that's great news
Nice!
UB/AP is now f***ing U.S. Online play for U.S. is now suspended there...got the message this morning. I blame this on BooG690.
Ya, they are shady fucks, wouldn't mind seeing the DOJ destroying them after players are refunded.
Do you think CEREUS/UB will be treated differently because they offered Blackjack and other casino games to their players?
in the release it said FTP/PS had to agree to cut off Americans in order to return our funds
so now I just have to wonder if I fucked myself by w/d'ing on Friday
I tried, but still not allowed to withdraw as of 5 minutes ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
It was only agreed upon and released today, you may want to give them a day to get organized and get the domains in order. They still need a processor to cut checks or move funds as well. Stars has great support and all, but I'm sure they aren't going to rush around to get every nickel removed from their sites coffers
+1000Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Did you get yours approved on Friday spenda? I withdrew 2/3s of my roll as soon as I heard the news (around 15:00) and was approved. Money debited from account and such.
it's not an instant thing, FullTilt also had a press release saying there is some more work to do in order to get the funds off
edit- nm, 2 slow
Welcome to 40 mins agoQuote:
Originally Posted by unclesteve
I would assume you're fine since the end result is the same. But, we all know what happens when you assume...Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
In preparing to withdraw, I discovered that I could still purchase a Stellar Reward and a Cash Bounus with my remaining fpp's. I figured I might as well trade them in now since I have no idea when Stars may let me play again. ;)
A+ statement imo
statement is great, only mentions funds in players accounts though, I'm worried about funds in transit
for non-US once the funds clear ....time to redeposit?
50% reload bonus
SCOOP Reload 2011 - Poker Tournament Cash Bonus
woo hoo
Full Tilt and PokerStars Regain .com Domain Names and Player Money is Safe (UPDATED 8:47 a.m PDT) | PokerNews
the worrying part from that statement from full tilt point of view
"In addition, the agreement represents an important first step towards returning funds to U.S. players because it allows Full Tilt Poker to utilize its domain to facilitate the withdrawal of player funds. But, unfortunately, there remain significant practical and legal impediments to returning funds to players in the immediate future. As a result of the recent enforcement action, there exists no authorized U.S. payment channel through which to make refunds; Full Tilt Poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government; and the government has not agreed to permit any of the seized player funds to be returned to the players.
Read more: Full Tilt and PokerStars Regain .com Domain Names and Player Money is Safe (UPDATED 8:47 a.m PDT) | PokerNews
this differs from stars and DOJ statments ........so were some of players funds in company accounts and not segregated as they should have been?
it seems fffffffffar more likely that this is referencing the limbo money that was withdrawn but got caught in the processors accounts when they were frozen. FTP obviously has accounting of any money still in a players account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
ya what boost said
Giving bonuses is cool but Stars should really pay out money to non-US players before asking for more imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
Wild Guess: Online Poker will be legalized in the States within 14 months but only for play through PokerStarsWynn.com. Full Tilt knows this and so they have less incentive to make paying out US players a priority.
That's a pretty myopic statement. FTP still has a large userbase outside of the states and not paying US players would send a shitty message to non-US players as well. It is in FTP's best interests to pay up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer
Wynn Resorts terminated their partnership agreement with pokerstars once the indictments were announced so its very unlikely to be a pokerstars/wynn site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer
If anything legalized us poker sites are coming into the market once legislation passes its gonna be ceasers/harrahs wsop.com. It's already running legal online poker in the uk and along with partypoker would likely be the 2 big players imo.
Sorry, I didn't mean FT wouldn't pay out just they would take 2-3x longer than Pokerstars.
@ Meeloche - Ok that sounds a lot more informed than my wild guess, but I still like my (no facts) conspiracy theory that Wynn is the :kc:, a 'behind the scenes puppet master' orchestrating a master plan to control online poker in Amerca that even includes the DOJ crackdown.
pffft: If we're gonna talk conspiracy theories then the ceasars/harras wsop makes more sense. I'm thinking 6 to 18 months and the big two in the US will be WSOP and Party. If stars and FTP don't get aquitted or the case dismissed then those two might not return to the US ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer
For Wuf: YouTube - Online Poker FBI Crackdown
This broad is a retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
so gay u cant use fpps to buy bonuses if ur american...guess they are all goign to waste
eh, this is why I don't even like the political talking heads like Cenk and Maddow.Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
To them the world of gov't action fits into a certain narrative that I don't think is accurate. Why couldn't it just be that the FBI followed the law and was handed a case on a silver platter for billion dollar money launderers? Why does it have to be big govt crushing competition to support their masters as bought bitches?
Gift certificates + ebay = US dinero?Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
Yes it was pulled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender
PokerStars Big Game and Million Dollar Challenge Pulled from Fox
[Q] What will happen to my cashouts that have already been requested?
[A] These cashouts will be reversed and refunded to your account to allow you to Cash Out properly in the near future.
[Q] What will happen to my FPPs?
[A] PokerStars is currently reviewing options for redemption of FPPs by US residents. More information will be available in the coming days and weeks.
PokerStars - USA - FAQ
I'd like to know what % of FBI/DoJ employees were recreational players.. and how many of them cashed out pre 15th because they knew what was coming..
insta-closed after 1st sentenceQuote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
quote from Pokerstars FAQ:Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
- What will happen to my FPPs?
- PokerStars is currently reviewing options for redemption of FPPs by US residents. More information will be available in the coming days and weeks
PokerStars - USA - FAQ
"Online poker is ELEEGAL except maybe sort of kinda not in like New JerZEE :eek:"Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
GFY lol
fwiw - the ftp client and the ftp - co.uk websites are both crashing and re-appearing like a yoyo at the moment. I've already pulled most of my roll, i'm pulling more now and leaving myself very thin for 50nl...
there is also gossip here re ftp liquidity - can't verify legitimacy of this though
TV Crew Walks off Poker Lounge Set UK event canceled mid-tourney after payment issues with Pocket Kings | Pokerati | Texas Hold'em and Las Vegas WSOP Poker Blog
It worked for me earlier today.Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2030497
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
It would be ceasers/harrahs 100%. They spend the most money lobbying in Washington of all the casino enterprises as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer
Does this mean courtie can tell us how she did?Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
So can all you poker nerds go back to your respective forums and leave my commune alone?
So, how much did you win? Trip report required.Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
The shows will still air online for sure, so I can't tell you guys anything!
I'm also hoping the shows air in Canada too.
She lives in a basement apartment. She lost!
(Not stalking you, I swear. You offered that information freely.)
Hello,
Thank you for contacting PokerStars.
We were very pleased to receive the news that allows US players
to cash out
their real money balances.
In response to this update, the Cash Out option in the PokerStars
Cashier
will temporarily be unavailable, to allow us to prepare the
technical
solutions and formulate the plan and processes required to allow
you to cash
out your balance.
Please be assured, US player balances are safe. We will notify
all US
players as soon as the cashier is available to allow you to
proceed to
cashing out. In the interim, any pending cashouts will be
returned to your
account in order to ensure players have the opportunity to cash
out orderly.
Providing you with the facility to cash out is our top priority
right now,
and hopefully all US players will be able to cash out via the
PokerStars
Cashier in the near future.
We apologize for the temporary delay, and sincerely appreciate
your patience
and cooperation, as we continue working towards providing you
with a
solution to cash out.
Regards,
Paula
PokerStars Support Team
EDIT: bolded part=good news for spenda?
just rec'd
Dear VIP player,
PokerStars is pleased to announce that an agreement has been reached with the US Department of Justice that will allow US residents with funds in their PokerStars accounts to cash out without DoJ interference. Cashouts can begin as soon as PokerStars finds a suitable payment processor, likely within several weeks.
This rapid agreement is the direct result of PokerStars making it the #1 company priority to return account balances to US residents as quickly as possible.
US residents are still welcome to play upcoming PokerStars-sponsored live events such as EPT San Remo and EPT Grand Final in Madrid. Tournament packages and buy-ins won or otherwise earned on PokerStars will be honored. If you would like to register for these events using funds from your PokerStars account, please email [email protected].
More information of interest to US residents is available on a special Frequently Asked Questions webpage located at:
PokerStars - USA - FAQ
This page will be updated as more information becomes available.
Please note that the PokerStars website has moved to www.pokerstars.eu and the primary support email address has changed to [email protected]. The PokerStars.com website and email addresses are gradually being restored, but it's best to use these addresses for now to be sure your communication gets through.
Thank you for your patience and understanding as PokerStars works to make your funds available for cashout as quickly as possible after recent unexpected events.
Regards,
Gareth
PokerStars VIP Team
likely within several weeks? sigh
It would be nice if FTP would ever sending something like this....
To me, this is exceptionally good news. A lot of people have been asking me what I think is going to happen to the money and I've been saying that, in my non-expert opinion, we won't see it for the forseeable future-- if ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
I'm glad I was wrong (still keeping my fingers crossed, though)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donachello
.
they keep saying PENDING and not PROCESSED
that's my only question
update from FTP-doug
FTP Answers 4/21 - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum
ja, i know it's the other forum - figure in these circumstances it's ok