Did i miss something? Is this season moving past book 5 somehow? I thought there was a lot of content left :o
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Did i miss something? Is this season moving past book 5 somehow? I thought there was a lot of content left :o
a handful of plots will likely be slightly ahead of the books, and most will be different
the trailer for the show is basically throwing the books out
Probably will be another season before they're really in Winds of Winter territory, but who knows. They could spoil entire plot points at worst and use their trademark sledgehammer storytelling technique to foreshadow spoilers at best.
I still haven't decided. I may cave and watch this season, I'd give it 50/50 chance at this point.
I think there is a decent chance that the books and show end up in entirely different places.
The ending of s5 is supposedly leaked, and if it's true, I have a hard time seeing how it flows with what the books are doing.
I think the show is setting up heroes and villains and an ultimate feel-good ending on some level. I am less convinced the books will do that.
I feel like there is no way GRRM could reiterate any major plot developments that the show already did. Yes, the books will last longer than the show, but in real time, let's say he's writing a character's arc who died in s7 of the show or whatever, I suspect he will not want to keep it the same
I'm giving it 51% chance that the show and books end up in entirely different ultimate outcomes for each plotline.
I bet Oberyn read lots of tomes and books and scrolls and shit. I bet the Mountain didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
http://new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/com...5aa90b3283.gif
Can't wait for this to start up again...
Haha. Post needs love.Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
Emilia Clarke is the hottest woman on the planet. Obv a bit late to that conversation but holy cow is she hot.
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
Oona Chaplin as well.
Finally caught up with this thread. No way I'm reading a series of books with a cliff hanger and no end in site. That's the only reason though. I imagine the show will take its own direction and have some closure which the books might not for years to come.
And if the show starts to nose dive I'll just read cliffs on the books to remove the fixation.
i think the more of the show somebody watches before they read the books, the more they'll prefer the show. an example for why is that there is a character whose arc is not fully understood. in the show it appears that character is going to take on the role of several arcs in the books, yet in the books that character will likely do something else entirely. the arc that character takes on in the show is likely to be very cool (the stuff is great in the books as is), and people who havent read the books will say they prefer that particular arc for that character and when informed about what happened in the books they will likely say it worked better in the show even if that wouldn't be true if they had been introduced to the arcs in the books first.
that's about as abstract as i can make it. tbh i didnt like the books for the stories i had already known from the show. it was after getting into new stuff that the books became more enticing. far more than that though, is how epicly cool the fan theories are. i might argue those are better than the books by a longshot. i mean, the more i know about planetos, the more i shake my head at grrm claiming he's going to end the series with 7 books. he needs a good dozen books to get to the bottom of the world he created.
im still partial to ros. but yes dany has 10/10 face. she's linda cardellini level
But when I read a book or series of books, the story is hugely important. With TV shows it is less so, as in other things like dialogue for example can be enough to keep me interested even if the story is a bit shite. But with a book it's nothing more than the telling of a story, and you have no idea if/when you will hear the end of it. And you invest so much more in a book that a TV show. To be left lost and melancholy in a few books time because the author bit off more than he can chew.
There's an awesome fat joke to be had here, but I'm too lazy to formulate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
After watching game of thrones the hobbit movie sucked ass.
Right.
Because The Hobbit movies sucked ass.
You don't need to watch them to know the worst of the 4 Tolkien books stretched to 3 movies was gonna suck the wrong nut.
Just like you don't have to watch Pirates of the Caribbean 4 to know it's shit.
Hobbit 2 was pretty good. 1 was dull. 3 would have been good just for the big battle if you like don't watch game Www.flopturnriver.com thrones.
I have no idea what happened there.
I stopped reading the books after nbr 3 came out, I just didn't like them. Just finished watching season 4 on tv though, and now I'm really tempted to get back into the books.
Just finished GOT,all i can say is "wow" , wait for the season 5 now :D
Looks like at least the first three episodes are leaked.
First 4 eps are leaked, lol. Gonna be a Red Wedding at HBO. The quality isnt too great though, looks like 480p.
I was really worried about that, but I watched e01 last night, and I was pretty satisfied. Obviously 720 is preferable, but man, slightly lower grade crack is being dangled in front of me-- who am I to be picky?Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I actually can't find them. I don't think that's every happened before. It was just a quick search but still, what is the Internet coming to.
Oh no, I'm just stupid, been searching for season 6.
It's still perfectly watchable. Loving it so far, on to watch ep 4 now and then it's the great wait again.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
Episode 1 last night was good. I'll just wait and see the next 3 weekly on hbo instead of looking for the leaked versions.
I used to think I'd want to read the books after everything is done on hbo but looking at some of the posts here there is some doubt about that now.
what posts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
i watched the first three eps leaked so far. this is my first season watching after having read the books. pretty sure im saying im not much of a fan of the show anymore. it's easy to see real time now why dnd was a bad choice.
well at least ep4 was pretty great. maybe the first 3 were weak, maybe i just needed to get used to the new pace, maybe i was pissed at a handful of dumb decisions the writers made.
Are we discussing up to e04? I feel like we should be pretty clear on that before someone gets spoiled. e02-04 in spoilers seems reasonable, but I would understand if people preferred no discussion of unaired episodes whatsoever.
just put it in tags and label it.
Up to episode 4. Seems a little slow. It's like they touch on an interesting topic but just a tease, no real progress.
To be fair every season starts slow-ish like that.
I marathoned so maybe didn't notice.
here how it b: us bookies know of a handful of events (like six or seven) that are still spoilers for non-bookies, which will all air this season. other than that, most of the show is new to us. the show has cut a lot and changed a ton, with examples of several characters having entirely different personalities and/or arcs and/or being in different parts of the globe. The rumor for how one big event differs from the books in the coming eps gives me the impression that the show is going to an entirely different place than the books.
Ended up watching the 4 leaked episodes, now I need to wait a month for a new game of thrones episode :O
One of your posts got me thinking that the books might not be that great after having watched it on hbo:Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
that's certainly true.
the most enjoyment ive gotten is from all the fan theories. i will probably recommend for anybody who doesn't plan on reading the books, to after this season is done, go read all the fan theories from bookies. it'll give a little more insight into the goings on of certain characters and arcs, but not really enough to spoil anything.
If you read, read the books. If you listen to books on tape, listen to the books.
Don't go out of your way to consume them.
Same with Harry Potter. I saw the first movie, then ran through the books (Til Goblet of Fire). In retrospect, the books delivered, but the movies were good enough.
Fan theories are something special. Genuinely delicious to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I liked the HP movies up until the 2parter finale. I feel like they did a really poor job of portraying voldemort, and I dont even think its the actor's fault. It seems like the movies intentionally made him some kinda pervy, frail dude, and he was supposed to be super scary. Idk.
This season is good so far but we seem to be missing that Joffrey type character these first few episodes...
Speaking of HP, you guys should check out hpmor.com . Some of the best fiction I have ever read, and I do mean best fiction, not just best fan-fiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
Sansa Stark seems to get the worst guys! Joffrey was pure evil and we've seen what the latest guy is capable of. At least Tyrion treated her relatively well in between.
Off to a pretty slow/weak start imo. I'm guessing the action will take a big leap in an episode or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
This is said every single season. It's a slow burn show. You're not watching E.R., Law & Order, or The X-Files.
Yeah, I guess since this is the first season I actually have to wait a week between episodes, it seems even slower for me. Was able to watch S1-S4 in a few weeks.
Ah, right, that's certainly understandable. For reassurance, go back and read the episode summaries of the first four episodes of the previous seasons, and you'll see that there is nothing to worry about.
The start of episode 4 on Sunday was pretty crazy.
I support the divergence with regards to Barry the Bold. The Meereen plot does not translate well and the writers are right to change it. Granted, I think DnD have done an abysmal job adapting from the books. It's as if they didn't construct a plan either, and their choice of divergences come as surprises to them.
A prediction (because some of the storylines are beyond the books by now):
I think this is the last time Sansa and Littlefinger see each other. That scene in the crypts just felt very "Ned telling Jon he's gonna tell him about his mother the next time they meet".
This show is so fucking dull when watched on a week by week basis. Great to marathon but dull dull dull when spread out.
I wouldn't go so far as to say dull but I see where you're coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
Also, it is annoying when key characters aren't even seen in some of the episodes.
it doesnt help that this season is not that good.
Maybe I'm a fan boy, I don't know, but I think you all are fucking crazy.
I'm watching Mad men weekly now, the show delivers. I mean practically nothing happens but it works. I'm finding the complete opposite with got.
It's still the best thing on TV. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It's an epos, that's why it tells its story slowly. Near the end of the season is when shit always hits the fan.
I like the season just fine.
Spoiler:The Roose Bolton "you're my son" scene doesn't quite warm the heart the way Stannis-Shireen does, but the interactions of these two monsters makes me feel a tinge of sympathy for Ramsay. He needs to die soon though, and it seems he will.
The issue is that with the stuff they're changing, they're not actually making it better. I think they set up divergences but then waddle back to book plots. It's a little messy and it contributes to why people are confused about motivations of some of the characters.
The boltons are so unlikeable, downright cringey it has to be done on purpose. I guess Geoff's death left some shoes to fill.
Yeah, I look forward to it way more than anything else on the dvr. Maybe this is why some episodes seem bittersweet - too much anticipation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I'm finding this season of Mad Men as their best. Last episode was probably my favorite episode of the whole series.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
And I'm also enjoying Game of Thrones, as I always have, to be honest. Not their best season, but it's still a great TV series IMO.
I mean I think the issue is that so many game-changing deaths have occurred that Westoros and the show creators are in this period of sifting through the pretenders.
How many stories could survive the deaths of characters Ned, Robert and Drogo in season 1?
Many of the most polarizing characters, the ones who really chew the scenery, have died since: Teh Joff, Tywin, Hound. Losing Ygritte and Oberyn made the show a lot less interesting (we need some serious Dorne payoff, soon).
I've never liked Sansa as a character, and she was only getting interesting IMO when paired with LF. I love Arya, but she was a ton more fun when she was with The Hound. I've always felt the show was a lot worse when you had long stretches without Jamie.
I really like the dynamic between Stannis and Jon Snow, and Stannis has become a lot more sympathetic this season. We really need more open Margaery(+Olenna)-Cersei warfare. And for the love of the old gods and the new, give Dany something to do.
You're doing this thread wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
It seems they like to build lots of stories and have them climax simultaneously, even when they don't necessarily interact with each other. Which means lots of slow episodes. It's a shame they can't have different arcs reaching points of interest at different times but they seem to love having a couple of episodes where the entire world has simultaneously simultaneous climaxes.
True. I think the latter half of the season will be much better than the former.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
My issue isn't pace or excitement though. It's nonsensical plot and character developments.
Which ones?
hey let me just lend this bastard and some unruly folk my navy while im fighting a war
hey let me burn this guy to death then 7 hours later say i was wrong and tell his buddy we're getting married
hey let me parade this girl around in such a way that rumor will get out that i stole her from the queen on the day of her son's weddingdeath
hey let me send a one and a half man army to rescue a girl from a fortress
the dany one, for example, is a mix between trying to stick with the source material and make new material, and the mix is just a mess and doesnt work. her ep5 arc was ridiculous.
i thought ep4 was fine, but did not like 1-3 and hated ep5. but i think it's possible the reason behind that is this is where D&D are transitioning into fully new territory. they're workign with the source but also not, it's weird. im expecting things to get better tbh, and i wouldnt be surprised if the last two seasons are much better
Wuf I think yer just being that guy. You know, hate everything that deviates from the books.
The Dany arc is to show that she's every shred of the decisive leader. She's not picked at by the wolves of Meereenese culture. When she bows to it, it's her choice for her reasons on her terms. Typical girl power shortcut. I'm fine with this because the struggle between old families and new Dany in the books takes 4fugging ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I can't even remember if Stannis gives Jon ships in the book and why, but that one had me scratching my head. He needs these ships, he said, and unless Titties with the red hair told him to give the ships over, I don't see why he'd part with them.
Johra and Tyrion passing through the Doom... Lotsa book sprawl being trimmed.
Haha yeah all good points. I mean all except parading the girl around kinda make sense. But they're also all a bit stupid.
Do none of them things happen in the book?
Oh new posts.
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by rong
It's still the best thing on television imo but it's far from perfect.
My favorite parts of this season are deviations from the books.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I don't think ADWD translates well to screen. If I was D&D, I would deviate too, but much harder.
What I don't like is that they're deviating then returning, deviating and returning. The Dany stuff is a good example of D&D telling a different story, but then suddenly returning back to a book plot.
I'll be singing a different tune once this season is done, I suspect. I think they just have to make that full transition into their own story, but right now it's a little bit of both.
If that's how she feels I don't think she thinks for a second that marrying Hizdahr is a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I vaguely remember some quote from the old dame from the flower house about how the people need the escapism of weddings for the distraction or else they get restless. Maybe she's following the same thought. The pits as a spectacle to show a return to normalcy and a wedding to show solidarity among the leadership.
The biggest problem with this season is that they diverted from their formula.
The previous season, they fell into a grove where (literally) every other episode was exciting and the rest were slow. This time that grove doesnt exist, and it seems like theyre going for a more typical slow build up instead.
Honestly, thats probably because of the source material, with different books being written with a different pace.
Liked this episode a lot.
Will watch tonight. I hoping for more aria, more Jamie and more tyrrion.
Disappointing when we don't see updates on key characters like Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Stannis Baratheon and Brienne.
If Mad Men was a slow, comfortable, gentle but firm, caress filled, fuck with someone you care about and know just how to please then Game of Thrones would be finding a unsuspecting bitch jogging in a park, dragging her into a bush and raping her in the ass.
Mr. Ecko though!
He will always be Adebisi.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwYXA8INP7U
Well things just sped up! Great episode. Only the part with Jamie was a bit silly. They just approached the Lannister girl in broad daylight when she wasn't even alone? I mean they came so far just to blow it like that? And then these 3 supposed kick-ass sisters showed up, who just look clumsy? Unconvincing. All the rest was great though. I like the faith guys, Littlefinger spinning stuff again (what side is he on?), Tyrion in action, Arya growing into her new role as nameless and then Sansa getting sucked into the madness. That girl just can't catch a break.
Arya stuff was p sweet. Jbear and Tyrion was also sweet.
A lot of people smack talk the sand snake stuff, and I see that, but my real hang up was with the head of the faith playing to cersei's tune. This a man that does exactly as he believes in every step he takes, he wears rags and dirt because his poverty and generosity aligns with his truly held beliefs, he accepts Cercei's help because it cleanses the world of blight. How does a man like that scheme and angle to get Margaery swept into the jaws of the church court?
Why wouldn't a man with 7 gods on his side have patience - surely the sinners will be judged.
jack and rilla, I think both your complaints can simply be chalked up to needing to trim fat for the show to actually make it to our screens. GoT has been really good at not having this show, but these two simply seem to be cases of underdeveloped plot lines and character arcs due to lack of overall screen time to go around to all the stories. Because the show has been so good, I tend to treat this like a reverse book, instead of using my imagination to flesh out the visual world, I'm using it to flesh out the leader of the fanatics deviation from his absolutism in favor of power, all the while deceiving himself into believing it is anything but that.
I had this hope that Sansa was growing out of the victim stage and am kind of annoyed that we had another GoT rape scene.
I also think that the scene with the Sand Snake girls was awkward and baddish. I think the ideal way to handle that scene was for the girls to kill Bronn before they're arrested. I love Bronn but I feel like his usefulness is long over, what with Tyrion in Essos and Jamie learning how to fight one-handed. If he gets killed there it gives the girls legit badass aura.
Other than that I loved this episode. The LF-Cersei stuff was fantastic, as well Cersei-Olenna.
Upset by rape scene; disappointed with lack of violent death of beloved character scene.
Makes sense.
So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I think Mr. Ecko pops into my head first because I saw him first in Lost, but you're definitely right.
how you can connect the 2 makes zero sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
Martin is a known misogynist and the HBO people are putting in extra rape scenes for their own purposes. I also think from a character development standpoint, the rape of Sansa is terrible.
I'd guess that the number of battle scenes in GoT that didn't result in fatality can be counted on one hand. There was no reason that fight had to end so unsatisyingly.
Sansa's story has heavily strayed from what GRRM wrote. D&D have turned her into a side character. That scene had nothing to do with her. She has no arc. She is perpetual victim. We were told this from the beginning with her wolf dying, but it was too easy to ignore and too easy to see some grand learning experience for her.
All this time I thought she would become a player. Now I know she's a pawn.
Yeah, that whole scene seemed to have been from a really bad TV series, not Game of Thrones, it was bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
He's side. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I'm hoping she'll toughen up from this experience and starts to take control of her life for once (not that I agree with the rape story at all, BTW... I mean, she knew it was going to happen and still stayed, all because of LittleFinger).Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Was really hoping Theon would kill Ramsay before he got to rape her... didn't expect it, just hoped for it.
I have a feeling that you cannot comprehend the link because you harbor irrationally imbalanced feelings regarding these two acts of violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib
GRRM is a known misogynist? This is not known to me. All I've heard is people giving him accolades for how he writes females. But I also haven't really dug into who he is and all that. Care to elaborate?
I don't disagree that the Sunspear fight was poorly choreographed, poorly set up, and abruptly ended-- but I'm not sure why I'm saying this since I never argued otherwise.
I mean, look, here is what you are arguing: Writers should back off of story arcs completely or write them unnaturally to avoid the inclusion of rape, an act of violence that is sadly part of this world, and certainly part of a medieval styled world.
Now here's something to think about, all those who are outraged at the writers over this almost certainly did not express the same sort of outrage when Bodie executes Wallace. Why? Both shows depicted disgusting and deeply upsetting realities of the world, but one is understood as a sophisticated exploration of dark themes and a window into the unseen underside of our society, while the other is treated as a profane and gratuitous choice by the writers. What is the difference? Both plots naturally progressed to these heinous acts of violence.
TL;DR: Is television, like college campuses, now subject to strict censorship to provide a SJW safe zone for anyone who may or may not feel uncomfortable with the topic of rape?
In the context of GoT, rapes happen.
The fact that HBO is putting in extra rape scenes that don't actually happen to characters from ASOFAI seems gratuitous. For instance, GRRM insists that Jamie did not rape Cersei, but it was filmed in such a way to suggest that's exactly what happened.
The Daernerys wedding rape I get and it fits within the context of the story and the development of her character. The Cersei/Sansa rape scenes don't.
I watch tons of movies/TV shows that feature gratuitous violence in the form of battles, whether they are meant to represent real events (Vikings, Civil War, etc.) or fiction (sci-fi movies, martial arts movies) because I am thoroughly entertained by them.
I do not watch movies about women getting raped for entertainment purposes.
Within the context of a show with as high a body count as GoT, I fully accept and expect major characters, even characters I like, to die. That's ok because the deaths have generally been used well, to advance certain story lines. Killing Bronn would have totally given some meaning to the stupid battle scene in the garden. Hell, killing anyone would have made it better, but Bronn is the most expendable from a plot standpoint as his raison d'être appears to be gone.
One type of violence is acceptable to further the story, another isn't. Ok, I think this is a poor stance, but fine-- Oh, wait, that forbidden type of violence is acceptable so long as the source material included it? Let me get this straight. Diverging from the source material, as has been done plenty (from what I understand): Ok. Depicting a specific type of rape: Ok. Diverging from the source material in a way that ends up depicting that exactly same specific rape scenario: Resolutely NOT OK!
I really think you need to step back and acknowledge that Daenerys' rape aired before the phrase "rape culture" was coined, and Sansa's took place after. That is why people are upset at the writers. Being upset by the scene makes sense. Being upset at the writers does not make sense. If you continue to stand by the narrative decision to have Daenerys be raped as the result of a politically motivated arranged marriage, but condemn the same situation involving Sansa, I don't think you're up for a rational discussion of the latter.
You can do whatever you want to your heroine as long as it isn't rape. Once it is rape, the audience sees her as weak and dominated and it subverts her role as the agent of her own destiny. I don't mean this as an opinion, but description of the history of cinema. I can't imagine a heroine getting raped and the audience's interest in her story not dying with it. It shouldn't be that way, but it appears to be.
Perhaps some of this is why people are up in arms about the Sansa rape. Perhaps some of it is rape culture accusations. TBH I think the main culprit is shit writing. By the end of s4, we are given a Sansa who has accepted grim reality for what it is, who has indulged her capacity to manipulate. But come s5 and she reverts back to the same naive girl from the beginning. It isn't even that her being raped is a problem, but that her perceived understanding of the situation is the naivete she supposedly cast off in the end of s4.
We were led to believe that she had learned something. GRRM told us she learned something. But D&D decided she didn't. Both bookreaders and showwatchers are mad for ultimately the same reason: D&D changed the character of Sansa between seasons without telling us.
Maybe I shouldn't harp on D&D because if it were me, I'd either want to stick to the books perfectly, using 16 eps per season, or I'd want a complete overhaul that would include things like sinking Dorne beneath the sea and Dany scorching Meereen to the ground the day after she arrived.
Hey, so, umm, there's a book thread. Like, I appreciate your insight on this topic, but there is plenty of insight to be made without referencing the books. Seriously, you've been booking up this thread for pages now, and I'm not sure why you think it's ok. While I do think you're smart enough to not spoil, that doesn't give you a special pass to reference the book ITT, because no matter how good you are at not spoiling, it creates an atmosphere in which book talk is tolerated or even encouraged. In your last post, you have a ton to say and can make your point all without talking about the books, so why must you constantly do so?
You should give us more credit than that. The show is almost entirely caught up on the books. In fact it's beyond the books with regards to Sansa, which is why I even said anything.
Don't worry, you're not getting spoiled on shit. Almost all of the show is brand new to bookreaders, just with a small handful of caveats for things that will be resolved in the next four episodes.
Right, but this is the show thread. There is a book thread. There are still two threads. People click this thread to discuss the show. I would assume in the other thread you guys talk about both the show and the books. Why do you think your book related insights belong in this thread as opposed to the other? Your assurances don't change any of these facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy