hmm, tips for PS 100K?

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Originally Posted by smitts187

see, i personally am quite proud of myself..no i didnt make the money, but i outlasted nearly 20,000 other players, in my eyes, i did well...i dont care if you guys think i was wrong for playing this, its 11$, which i could have wasted in many other ways, i could spend double that taking my gf to the movies, and not enjoy myself half as much as i did in this...11$ for nearly 2 hours of entertainment, is more then worth it in my opinion, money is money, you can ALWAYS acquire more money, there is infinite ways to build your personal wealth, i am not phased in the slightest losing that 11$, thats a 6pack, which would last me roughly the same amount of time as i played...again, i honestly do not care what your oppinion is of me playing in this tournament, i had fun, and in the end, thats what it comes down to, it could have been much worse, within 5 minutes, there were like some 300 ppl out, i could have been one of them, but i wasnt, i played my game, and i outlasted 4/5 of the competition, doing VERY well in my eyes, so take it how u want, but thats what it is

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I bolded the part which you need to really think about. Not in terms of why you're playing poker but why you would go to a poker forum, ask for poker help and then go "ape-shit" on those making money trying to teach you how to make money.

If you're into poker to have fun then all the best to you. Enjoy yourself as much as you can, post questions around here and read a lot of threads. However I would sugguest putting something in your signature about you being an "enjoyment player". Some/most/all of the advice which will be given to you by certain members of this forum will be completely useless in regards to what you're looking for, for this simple fact.

Let's get something straight. The people who go from the beginners forums of poker sites to the big money/high-stakes leagues are playing the game to win money. Fun is something you have once you have the money, work is something you do to get it. Poker can be enjoyable work, but it IS work for a lot people (myself included). However there are always players out there, you being one, who are not interested in learning how to be a better player but rather how to have the most fun out of the game.

I respect that. I don't understand it, but I do respect it. However if your attitude is going to be the "fun" rather than the "work" philosophy then you need to let people know. Asking what you should do in the situation described in your opening post gave you what people would do if they were playing for the long-term. Short-term gratification wasn't something you mentioned, and that's where the class of attitudes began.

Again, you play the way you want to. It IS your money. But find someone who plays poker for fun and learn from them, that would be your best option. You might not find that type of player here however.

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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I finished 3601 :P

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That's what you call finishing close to the money :-) out of interest what did the minimum payout pay?

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not sure, 25ish

smitts,
First of all, congrats on winning the satellite and for finishing in the top % of the $100K.

HOWEVER, most of this thread has been about you playing in this tournament even though your bankroll didn't support it nor did you seamingly have the skill set to finish very high in the money if ITM at all (not trying to slam your skills there, but you didn't even know how to calculate your M).

Your arguement was that since you didn't ask for bankroll advice that our regulars should have just focused on providing guidance for your specific question. Unfortunately there is a flaw there.

The regular contributors at FTR try to improve the skill level of people that post here in EVERY category, not just answer simple questions. If they just blantently ignored a critical peice of the puzzle just because YOU didn't think it was relevant then they are not doing their job as "experts" in their field.

To put this in perspective let me take your situation and apply it to a different scenario.

Let's assume that you won $500 in a raffle and have been DYING to buy a new stereo receiver. You go to the store and ask the sales dude for the best receiver you can get for $500.

As he is pointing out the various receivers he asks you about the speakers that you are going to be using, at which point you say "They are pretty cheap speakers, but don't worry about that, just sell me the receiver".

The sales rep tries to get you back to the topic of your cheap receivers, but you ain't listening. You have wanted a new receiver for a long time and damnit "its your money and you want to buy it".

I bet you already see where I am heading with this, but I am going to continue because damnit I am here to make a point.

So, you take this awesomest receiver home, plug it in to your DVD player, XBOX 360, etc. and CRANK IT UP BABY!!!

Naturally, your cheap speakers blow up like a suicide bomber and you take the receiver back to the store cuz they sold you something that wouldn't work with your speakers.

When you get back, you start giving it to the sales rep who sold you the receiver and his comment is simply - "I tried telling you that, but you wouldn't listen. Unless there is something wrong with the unit I guess we need to head over to the speaker section".

Now, outside of the VERY elementary example there are a couple of factors that you need to understand that will let you know why people here harp on EVERY aspect of your poker game, not just the specific question that you ask.

1. We feel it is incumbent upon you to look at ALL facets of a decision, not just one simple one.

2. If we just blatently ignored the other factors and gave you bad advice other people may take that bad advice and amplify it, then point back to the bad advice.

3. If you aren't serious about your poker game and just want to gambool away some spare money then you are wasting your time and ours by asking for very basic advice that can be found all over these forums. If you ARE serious about improving at poker then you can't take one aspect of it and just blatently ignore it whenever you want to.

Btw, if you post a "yea, but" reply to this then I too will most likely be through with trying to help you and will simply wish you good luck with your adventures.

Why are you asking for advice if you won't heed it and just made this post to pat yourself on the back? See: Beginner's Winner Circlce

i think a lot of the advice on this thread has been extremely helpful and geared well towards a beginner. but i also think it's been a bit harsh, and it doesn't account for the other side of the coin.

BR management is about comfort as much as it is about safety. the reason we have a big BR is so it lessons the chance that we bust out. because when we bust out it's game over! unless of course, we are willing to redeposit. if smitts is willing to redeposit again and again then BR isn't really an issue. it does become an issue, however, when he starts to lose from his "life bankroll" and that's where problem gamblers start.

what smitts did is essentially the same as taking a shot at a higher level. if you win, great you fast tracked to a higher level. if you lose, oh well, you move back down, pat yourself for a good try, and keep playing.

let the guy enjoy what he did. poker is a game after all, and it is still fun for some people. that's a luxury that people who play for money don't have anymore....at least i don't have fun anymore when i play for money. my fun comes from playing for penny games with spenda and gmml and going OOOOHHHHHHHH when i suck out or get sucked out on.

Damn I lost an $11 bet with myself that that really was going to be his last post.

Damn I lost an $11 bet with myself that that really was going to be his last post.

i understand completely what everyone has told me, i dont look at poker as a career...not right now anyways, how is it even possible to support yourself from microstakes, i work, i support myself with a week to week paycheck, playing poker for mostly entertainment but if can make some money along the way then why not IF i was to make it to higher stakes, then it would be different, 11$ is nothing, even if it is 10% of my BR...its still only 11$, people blow more than that on fucking lottery tickets every week...however now say if my BR was 10,000, i WOULD NEVER IN MY LIFE play a 1000$ tournament, (not with a 10g BR anyways), i just saw it as a chance to move up, a chance i could not let pass by, not for 11$ anyways... i still think i made the correct decision,

so to put it blunt...

it was 11$

almost the cost of a pack of smokes, and a lighter: which would last you a day maybe
(an extreme waste of money AND your life)

the cost of renting a movie and buying a bag of chips:2 hours
(while watching being extremely bored and wishing i was playing poker anyways)

barely more then a gram of chronic: which would last 20 minutes(causing me to just space out and waste my time anyways)

my point, there is a lot of ways to waste 11$

why is it such a big deal i decided to TRY to turn my 11$ into 25k?

and im SURE a lot of you smoke, whether one or the other, so its kinda hypocritical in a way??

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Originally Posted by yourfather

Why are you asking for advice if you won't heed it and just made this post to pat yourself on the back? See: Beginner's Winner Circlce

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first off, i DID take the advice, the advice i ASKED for, i understand the whole "well we tell u everything to do with your question" but i stated, VERY clearly that i was participating in this tournament, i didnt say SHOULD i play, i asked HOW i should play

period. im getting tired of repeating this

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Originally Posted by smitts187

i understand completely what everyone has told me, i dont look at poker as a career...not right now anyways, how is it even possible to support yourself from microstakes, i work, i support myself with a week to week paycheck, playing poker for mostly entertainment but if can make some money along the way then why not IF i was to make it to higher stakes, then it would be different, 11$ is nothing, even if it is 10% of my BR...its still only 11$, people blow more than that on fucking lottery tickets every week...however now say if my BR was 10,000, i WOULD NEVER IN MY LIFE play a 1000$ tournament, (not with a 10g BR anyways), i just saw it as a chance to move up, a chance i could not let pass by, not for 11$ anyways... i still think i made the correct decision,

so to put it blunt...

it was 11$

almost the cost of a pack of smokes, and a lighter: which would last you a day maybe
(an extreme waste of money AND your life)

the cost of renting a movie and buying a bag of chips:2 hours
(while watching being extremely bored and wishing i was playing poker anyways)

barely more then a gram of chronic: which would last 20 minutes(causing me to just space out and waste my time anyways)

my point, there is a lot of ways to waste 11$

why is it such a big deal i decided to TRY to turn my 11$ into 25k?

and im SURE a lot of you smoke, whether one or the other, so its kinda hypocritical in a way??

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Your attitude is a piece of crap and the concept of respect really should be something you should think to resource. It's actually something interesting that may help you later on in life.

And playing microstakes is to teach you HOW to reach medium stakes.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Your attitude is a piece of crap and the concept of respect really should be something you should think to resource. It's actually something interesting that may help you later on in life.

And playing microstakes is to teach you HOW to reach medium stakes.

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first my attitude is this way because im fed up, i refuse to do ONE thing i am told to do(which i am not obligated to do in ANYWAY) and look what happens, i was never rude to anybody on here intil this post

2nd i have respect for a lot of people

a)respect goes both ways, you give it, then you get it back...i will never respect some1 who refuses to give it.

b)i respect multiple people here on ftr..but again, i will never respect some1 who refuses to give it

c)you know nothing of me IRL, i am probably one of the most respectful people you would ever meet, INTIL you push my buttons, then im an asshole with a capital A

point blank, its a joke to judge some1 because they dont do EVERY detail you tell them too. i have my own mind, my own decisions, and i will do what i want, when i want, IF i wanted to go enter a 109$ tourney,

i would

i dont want to, but if i did, i would,

BRM is important no doubt, but you are acting as if my 100$BR is my life savings and that if i lose it, i will have to file bankruptcy, and possibly sell a kidney? lol no, its money, money comes and goes,

if you want money, u can get it

you suck

/thread

edit - i am pisssssssssed. and tonight i spent lots and lots of "byu in"s on drinks and shit. just because i have the money outdside of my BR doesnt mean im noti going to use bankroll managem,enmt. becvaiuse i want to be prepared properly for when i hopefully moveee up.
dfonki your BR away if you want. have fun and WHY SO SERIOUSS ARRRRRRRRGH xxxxx

new sn?

Smitts;

Look back at this thread and really try to work out what has happened. You posted in the Beginners Circle and not the MTT forum, which automatically has the regulars looking at everything you've said in an attempt to improve your overall game. That's the nature of the beast when posting threads in a Beginners forum.

You've received advice you didn't want to hear. And the example with buying a sound system without proper speakers is a very accurate example of your attitude towards everyone who has offered you help. Look at things logically. Your entire arguement about why you don't want to adhere to bankroll management is that the money involved doesn't mean anything to you. Therefore a question arises, why are you playing at such low stakes if you're not interested in learning all the aspects of the game? This question is one that comes to mind whenever someone reads your rants.

The important thing about poker is that the money at the table and the money in your bankroll is not worth the same as it would away from poker. You gambling with $11 isn't you throwing away a good meal, it's you gambling with 5.5 buyins. A high-stakes player betting 100K isn't betting a house or a car, he is betting a proportion of his stack to win more chips. Our bankroll must have almost no monetary value if we are to take it seriously. It's just % of what we can play when we sit down and if we are over stretching our bankroll.

You don't want to take bankroll management seriously at this stage, which is quite obvious when you constantly talk about how much $11 is worth away from the table. But away from the table isn't what the advice you have been given is about. In essence, you've dug your heels in and are now ranting and raving about something because you feel you're in the right. You've passed the point in which you're willing to discuss and explain ideas, or even listen to explanations. I should know, I've been there plenty of times.

Which is exactly why my last post attacked your attitude. You've got your back up and would much rather do your own thing than listen to other people. And THATS OK. But it's not ok to do it and attack those who are trying to give advice.

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first my attitude is this way because im fed up, i refuse to do ONE thing i am told to do(which i am not obligated to do in ANYWAY) and look what happens, i was never rude to anybody on here intil this post

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The point isn't that you MUST adhere to bankroll management. The point was that it is better if you do for your poker game if you wanted to take it seriously. Simply stating that you're not really taking it seriously, you're only playing for enjoyment value but would like help to maximize that enjoyment with tips on playing the MTT would have been a lot easier for everyone. Instead you decided that you knew what you wanted to know and didn't want to listen to what you might potentially need to know.

The issue isn't following bankroll guidelines anymore, it's you stamping your feet making sure we all know you can do what you want when you want with your money. I would sugguest taking a deep breath and look to learn how to receive advice you may not want/think you need to hear. Having a "hissy fit" isn't a mature way of going about it.

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Our bankroll must have almost no monetary value if we are to take it seriously. It's just % of what we can play when we sit down and if we are over stretching our bankroll.

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Interesting I hadn't heard it explained like that before and it makes a lot of sense. I'm waiting on my bank roll to be released STILL - but am sure it will be no more than a week for my $120 to be released.

In the meantime I've won a couple of dollars (about $10) in total through winning 3/4 free rolls. I've pissed that away because of the relative nature of the money and the fact I couldn't motivate myself to be patient for an hour waiting for a 20 c pot.

If I'd have taken the approach you've mentioned - completely differentiating my BR from real life money, maybe I wouldn't have had such a hard time working with it. Definately something I'm going to remember going forward.

I AM A BEGINNER! I AM A "NOOB!" I AM A FISH! So if i'm out of line, someone w/ skill tell me, i'll back off.

From Beginner to Beginner Smitt, BRM at low stakes is not(I don't think) About keeping you from loosing your house, car, and retirement money, It's about Disipline. Sure, it seems like an easy decision now, why waste 1000 bucks of my 10G BR. But imagine when the Prize is that much higher, near million range. You'll be saying "If I can take 1000 dollars, and increase my entire standard of living, why not."
That eleven dollars wasn't cig money, it wasn't date money, it was money you played poker to win. It was money you could pat yourself on the back for winning, watch it inflate your BR a little bit, and move on. I don't think that this thread was a difference in opinion. It was a presentation of facts, that were ignored. Sure I didn't come to FTR yesterday to read "The Psychology of Loosing-Know thyself" But It was presented to me and was a great read, so I soaked it in.

Again man, This is all BEGINNER, TO BEGINNER advice.PLEASE don't think I assume to know anything you don't.

Is this thread still going?

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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

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Our bankroll must have almost no monetary value if we are to take it seriously. It's just % of what we can play when we sit down and if we are over stretching our bankroll.

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Interesting I hadn't heard it explained like that before and it makes a lot of sense. I'm waiting on my bank roll to be released STILL - but am sure it will be no more than a week for my $120 to be released.

In the meantime I've won a couple of dollars (about $10) in total through winning 3/4 free rolls. I've pissed that away because of the relative nature of the money and the fact I couldn't motivate myself to be patient for an hour waiting for a 20 c pot.

If I'd have taken the approach you've mentioned - completely differentiating my BR from real life money, maybe I wouldn't have had such a hard time working with it. Definately something I'm going to remember going forward.

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I believe it was in Doyle's Super/System that this really was pointed out to me. If the follow example is from somewhere else someone will correct me but here's how it goes:

A guy turns up at a friends house and ends up trying to borrow some money. He tells his friend that him and his wife/girlfriend are flat broke, they need money for food so the baby can be fed and they don't get their paychecks until the end of the week. After hearing the story his friend loans him the money. At which point he thanks him and jumps up, ready to leave. Asked where he is going, he tells his friend that the weekly poker game is that night and he needs to get there to catch his seat. His friend mentions the sob story and his reply is "Oh, I have money for THAT".

The essence being that you need two bankrolls. A life bankroll and a poker bankroll. The life bankroll is all the money you are living on and it's what you first use to start your poker bankroll with. However once your poker bankroll is set, that's it. The only time money is transferred between the two bankrolls is either because of profits or you've gone busto. Having blurred lines between the two can be a dangerous situation in regards to money management.

What I have in my poker BR is all I have. Once I go bust, that's it for me unless I can make a compelling arguement why I should "top up" from my life bankroll. That's a personal choice because I'm taking the poker seriously.

Wow I can't believe people are still going on and on about some whiney noob and his $11 tournament.

yea I think all has been said that can be said. I think the thread should be locked. This isn't my forum so I will wait. I think it should be dropped now and we can move on to other topics. If anyone else needs some advice concerning anything in the beginner realm, it seems we have some traffic to deal with it.

FWIW, BR is BR and real life roll is just that. Do you think guys like Sauce or gabe can throw $30K into a pot with a combo draw if they were thinking about anything other than BR management? Poker money is not real life money and you have to separate them, or you will forever dread your losses, thinking "I just lost a mortgage payment" " I just lost a months salary" Take real life out of poker and think EV.

^Haven't had a chance to read this entire thread, but I'll take your advice and lock it up. Thanks.

From the posts I've read, it sounds like people are just trying too hard to pound BR management into the brains of those who don't necessarily care or want to listen. It's great for us to tell people about BR management and why it's good, but it's not our job to force people to follow it. If they don't want to, that's their choice and we should just leave it at that.