Man slev, you've majorly fucked up, honestly didn't think you were gonna do this to yourself again. Gl on the rebuild.
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Man slev, you've majorly fucked up, honestly didn't think you were gonna do this to yourself again. Gl on the rebuild.
does it bother you or does it help you that people get mad about reading about the same fail over and over again?
good luck.
I'm actually angry. I saw that you were doing very well! I was watching, figured you had fixed yourself and became a better player! Well time to get back to grinding!
And as a wise man once said "you better check yo' self before you reck yo' self!"
I don't recall if he's donked his BR due to alcohol before now, but I don't think so. Many others have done the same thing. That doesn't make it ok, but it does mean that it's another lesson to learn. If he has done it twice, that's another story. Alcohol makes people do really stupid shit ( a lot more stupid than donking a 2NL BR). Most of you probably know that and should lay off the guy. So how does he fix this problem? He's already said he's abstaining from the evils of drink for at least six months. That's great. Everyone loved him when he offered his scholarships, now you're slamming him again. Yea, some people never learn, but Slevin has been learning and improving. It's not like he donked your BR. :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
That's it. I don't think Slevin needs me to defend him. I just felt like throwing that out there.
I'm not going to yell at you. I'm not going to get mad at you. I will feel a little empathy for you, because I've been there, done that. So instead I'll tell you a little life story about myslef and let you take from it whatever you want.
For me, advice wa always welcome, but at some point I fianlly realized that no one is going to be able to take me by the hand day by day so I had to reach inside myself and figure out what exactly it was that makes me a spewtard.
For me the big lightbulb moment was realizing that mentally I actually treated poker as two different games. When I am in the mindset that poker is a game of skill and I play it to the best of my ability, I earn money at my profession. When I am in the mindset that poker is just a big slot machine and it doesn't matter what I do because it all comes down to luck anyways, I lose money as a gambler.
I have a gambling problem and I think you might too. But if I am playing poker to the best of my ability I am not gambling. So for me, I have to do everything in my power to make sure that I never revert to the "gambler's" mentality. You have to figure out what it is that takes you into the gambling mental framework so that you can stop playing when you are in that mindset. If you can't figure that out - you will never ever be a longterm winner.
Good point and I agree there'a alot of truth in this, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Yeah sorry about that man. I thought I had things sorted this time also. I'm dissapointed to if it's any consolation, thanks for caring Ben.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
Sorry to hear that but no worries and no hard feelings!Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
Thanks dude!Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
A little bit of both I think. It bothers me because I'm dissapointed I failed and also dissapointed to be inviting some of the comments I've invited, but it helps me because I can see where people are coming from, and don't want to be here again in a month or two, that's why I've been working hard and will carry on working hard to try to make sure it doesn't happen again! Thanks for wishing me luck Courtiebee :)Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
Sorry Cbat and thanks for the advice!Quote:
Originally Posted by CBAT
Thanks play2win, no haven't donked my BR due to alcohol before, appreciate your kind words as always thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Thanks Chardrian for caring and for being so open, you're always so down to earth whenever you speak to people thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
To be honest yeah I had/do have a gambling problem. I haven't 'gambled' much at all in the past 12 months or so probabally about £100-£200. I think you've hit the nail on the head though and are right on the money with your insight. It is like two different games with two different mentalities, I started this OP with a great work ethic and all I was interested in was 3BB/100 things worked out OK while I was doing that. Then I decided to gamble 1/3 of my bankroll that wasn't playing poker it was gambling with my bankroll. Then I lost and all of a sudden 1/3 of my BR is gone, well I just need to get that back... so I'll play another $50 dbl up, typical gamblers mentality. Half hour later no bankroll.
Despite not really having bet in the last 12 months, in the last 2 years I've lost more gambling than I have ever put into poker so yeah I do have a problem with gambling, although I hadn't conceeded that until just now. One day about a year or two ago I had more cash in my hands as a result of gambling 'winnings' than I have ever had in my life, or have lost playing poker. I had that for about 4 days before I had given it all back.
You're right on the money with your analysis I need to stay in the poker mentality and out of the gambling mentality. This is more about me than it is about learning how to play poker. Poker was just starting to feel different, where the BR didn't really matter, I was simply getting up reading / playing a set amount of hours, confident that there would be some growth in BR or at worst some small dip, but on the whole the BR was certain to keep slowly climbing day by day. Now I've experienced that, I want it back. Without the alcohol and with continued hard work I think I can get that back. A friend who I gave this OP address to told me recently that professional poker players have almost super human discipline, but he could see some progress already in my short OP. That was encouraging to know. I'm going to build on the progress at the start of the OP.
Thanks again for sharing your experience and pointing me in the right direction. I'm going to have to make sure I only ever turn up to the tables with a poker frame of mind going forward, and realise just one hour out of that frame of mind can ruin however many hours work upto that point. I'm going to work harder than ever to ensure this OP is a success now, and that I'm playing 100nl by September, thanks.
Slevin,
Your threads are always entertaining to read in a soap opera kind of way. Think about why that is.
1) I blew up (drama, excitement)
2) I own up to my mistakes (tears, emotion)
3) Revelation! (Release, happy ending)
4) A quiet period with nothing of substance changed to ensure that another blowup will ensue (stay tuned for the next episode)
In this thread you seem to have been having a work ethic and putting something of actual substance into learning this poker fiend.
Now do this: Apply some of that work ethic and a plan and strategy of substance to dealing not with the poker fiend but with the gambling/tilt fiend. As Chardrian so rightly said - noone can do it for you. It has to come from you and you have to be the one to make it succeed.
We can probably all tell if you're doing it, but we can't help. All we can do is stay tuned for the next drama. Courtiebee peripherally touched on something also worth thinking about. Is failing a success formula for you? Think about this - why do some kids behave badly? Because they get attention that way. Even being scolded can be a kind of attention, and if they then tear up and get sympathy afterwards that's also attention. I'm not calling you an attention whore by any means, but is there any chance that the attention you get satisfies something inside you, and if so will that make it more likely that you put yourself in a similar situation again? Do we seem to care more about when you do badly than when you do well? Do you care that we care?
Before you blew up this week I was intending to come into this thread and throw a cautionary reminder at you regarding the tilt issue. I was in no way predicting that you would play when drunk and blow your roll. What I was going to say was that you think you're in control now, you have your work ethic, you get positive reinforcement from doing something right and it's important that you keep it up. Because - you will tilt again, and knowing your history it'll be something out of the ordinary. So your tilt control mechanisms need to be solidly ingrained as good habits that you can rely on to support you and you need to be open for and accept the idea that you are prone to tilting, respect the enemy and have a suitable response. My prediction was going to be that you will begin tilting seriously when one of two things happen (and both are likely to happen around the same time): 1) When the money in play become a significant amount of money for you 2) When you get near your goals.
For this reason you need to anticipate the ways in which you can tilt and design an approach that will keep it from happening.
If drink is a trigger I love the idea of the impossible-to-type password.
I'm not ignoring that all you've done and that I'm encouraging here is really symptom control. Another approach entirely is to try to find the ultimate source of the tilt demon and work on that. I'm not directly suggesting therapy, but an intensive process of that type could be helpful. Or a waste of your money and time. But it's probably true to say that as long as ultimate causes are not worked on all you're really doing is symptom control. There's nothing wrong with that however. Human beings are above all creatures of habit, and if you build really solid good habits and do your best to undermine the bad ones that may comprise a complete solution for you.
And don't lie to yourself. You say you haven't gambled much at all in the past year - what then do you call your approach to poker?
I don't want any 'revelation' posts in reply to this one. Think about why. What is it that I want?
Btw, Keith and I are doing a sweat this evening and we're looking to invite you in also. We'll probably just be talking about poker though.
Thanks Erpel, it's not tilt though it's a gambling mentality. As soon as I allow my game to be about short term profit I gamble, that's something I hadn't been doing for most of this Op. My power of focus and will power was weakened when I drank alcohol the other day. I really think it's as simple as that. I wasn't tilted. At no point was I slamming the button down or muttering obscenities at myself. My main issue isn't tilt, it's realising that 'gambling' is not a sustainable means of generating income (well not for me at least).
Why do I blog? No I don't desire to fail and enjoy the consequent beratement in some kind of masochistic fashion. I enjoy writing, I enjoy reading, I enjoy discussing things, and I enjoy reading where I've been and where I'm going. I enjoy the poker community here at FTR that's why I blog.
I was quite truthful when I mentioned I hadn't been 'gambling' for the last 12 months or so and wasn't really lying to myself. I meant intentional gambling of course, and didn't put poker into the same bracket. That aside, I am down probabally about $1600 since I started playing poker 8 months ago, I haven't actually checked exactly. I have placed single bets for more than that in the past, so when I say I haven't been gambling these past 12 months or so It's from that kind of background. I've actually had a reduced income these past eight months or so which helped - you can't bet what you haven't got. Once I had got out of the habbit of betting regularly I didn't even realise the fact that I was hardly betting at all, it's only really this OP and recent events that have made me even think about these things.
Why do people bet? Partly for the excitment I guess, partly because they want to improve their life situation. Partly because they can not differentiate the short term from the long term. Partly because they are looking for a quick fix to deeper problems of life.
Poker provides abudant financial freedom, and subsequently is more than capable of improving life quality. But only if it is treated as a profession and played professionaly. As soon as you play outside of a bankroll or in the wrong frame of mind you are no longer playing it professionaly you are simply transforming it into a vehicle for gambling. That is what I have realised thanks to this blog, my previous failed attempts and the recent responses.
I found your analysis of my ops into stages of increasing tension/revelatation à propos a soap opera/play quite amusing, nh.
Most Shakespearian tragedies have a cartharsis of sorts throughout the main, so that by the end the central character is able to come to some sort of insight about the world and or himself. I think we've past the Lear rambling on the heath stage now and are moving inextricably towards the dénouement - I'm fairly certain the cartharsis is well underway and through the process of listening to people here as I've attempted to develop into a winning player I have gained considerably both in myself, and as a poker player. As we reach the closing chapters I'm working harder than ever to ensure that my transformation into winning poker player is a success. Continuing with the play metaphor I quite like the thought that this journey may in some small way prove didactic for those starting out on the poker journey say 2-3 years from now, that might be hampered by like problems of self-discipline and approach. If I can develop into a winning player earning decent money from poker in spite of the mental hurdles I have had to over come, then I'm fairly certain anyone can. I haven't done so yet of course, far from it, but I'm definately alot further on than I was eight months ago even if my BR might tell a different story at the moment. I'm going to continue to do everything within my power to ensure the success of this and future OPs.
Thanks for that invite btw Erpel, Keith pm'd me about some software - I appreciate it, I'll be there, thanks!
What I meant about the truthful thing was to raise the question: Is it possible that you haven't missed gambling because all the times you tell yourself you've been playing poker you've been getting your gambling fix instead?
It's an important question, because if you eliminate the gambling from your poker you will no longer be getting that gambling fix and it may start affecting you in other ways. A bit like the smoker who is proud to have not lit a cigaret in a year while conveniently ignoring that the cigars he's been smoking instead are probably an indicator that he hasn't really stopped smoking.
In other words, IF there is any reaction to stopping gambling maybe that isn't one that you can right now look back on and say "it was like this" - it may actually be something still in part in front of you.
On my observation about revelationary posts I much like this new voice I'm hearing. In the past you've underestimated the size of your problems and overestimated the impact of your revelations. In truth it's probably more fairly viewed exactly like a bankroll building exercise.
The problem/challenge is huge, and every correct step made is only a small one. Every revelation you have is a small one. It is the gathered weight of millions and millions of small correct decisions that's going to topple the beast. Every single decision and step is important to get right and will contribute towards success. There will be errors, but part of the exercise is minimising the impact of errors on achievement of the goal and making sure the correct decisions at least greatly outnumber the errors.
Interesting Erpel, I'll be sure to think on that question some more.
Update and plans for the next few weeks
Edit: I was going to wait until I could redeposit my $140 bankroll, but decided against and instead to rebuild my BR from scratch.
Ouch. Seriously, slevin this would probably be the post (if none of the others got through) that should make you open your eyes. I won't say anything more about you donking off your roll again, I just wanted to put some emphasis on what Jyms posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
Keep your chin up and stop doing this to yourself.
It's not about any one thing getting through mate, it's about learning from mistakes, it's a gradual continual process. TBH I don't really care if Jyms doesn't want to read my op or chooses to take that tone, that's his perogative. I'm happy with the progress I've made to date the latest bankroll loss was a blip on my poker radar but I will soon bounce back. I'm certain I will be playing with a gradually increasing BR within the next few months.
There were actually some very constructive replies in this op recently notabaly by Chardrian and Erpel and I've taken alot out of those. I'm enjoying the challenge of becoming a winning player, even if there are still lessons to be learnt along the way. I'm optimistic for the future no worries there sir!
Slev, I'm w/ Chard. I liked to gamble, and so poker was hard for me at the beginning. I lost a couple micro-rolls of $50 here and $100 there. I worked on discipline a long time, and I still do. I still donk off a BI calling some silly-ass hand where I know I'm beat and just can't let go of KK, or w/e. Or I bluff when I should fold. But the bankroll discipline is the foundation. If we protect that, we can survive BIG mistakes at the table while we're learning.
I just hope you get your bankroll discipline sorted, and soon. Or you're gonna dump thousands into this game with nothing but missed opportunities to show for it.
The only thing I am currently pissed off about is that people are still responding to you.
You seem nice as a person btw.
This may be more of a reflection on Jymns state of mind (and poker) than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by dranger7070
Thanks Robb you're 'the man' for many of us ultra micro grinders quite inspiring thanks for the advice, yeah I hope so to, I think I'm there now more or less - was doing fine without any alcohol so by cutting that out I hope to resume where I left off as a more disciplined player!Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Well it hasn't all been quite on the western front this last day or so despite not having played I did join a 4 hour sweat session with Keith and Erpel which was really enjoyable. As well as putting some faces/voices to names it was nice to talk poker live I hadn't really done that before so will definately be doing it again!
Phase I - 2nl : Day 1 - Saturday March 7th
___________________________________________
Opening BR: $26 | Closing BR: $41 | Profit/Loss: +$15
___________________________________________
Thought for the day:
"Professional poker players have almost super human discipline."
Track for the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF2AAMVd33I
Today was the first day of the rebuild. I deposited $26 and have tried a variety of different games, my 'cold' session of 2nl was helped by my Omaha today.
I played 14, $1+0.20 9 man sngs. I don't ususally play sngs but with a starting BR of $26 I didn't feel very comfortable playing 2nl. I broke even over the 14, but I ran pretty bad so am fairly pleased with that. Up +$0.30
I played 831 hands of 2NL and ended up $1.37 down, again I'm not too phased by this as I was card dead for a long time, and didn't run particularly great. I did however fold QQ from MP when I was 3bet, and the 50bb short stack who had open limped UTG, shoved. The guy who had 3bet me called as I thought he would. I was pleased with this fold as I thought it was a coin flip at best, and I want to play for stacks when I think there's a good chance I'm ahead, not coin flipping.
The final session of the day was some 2nl Omaha I played two single table sessions for about 45 minutes each, and finished about $6 up.
Edit: I decided to play some more Omaha before I went to bed, It's 7am now and I've just finished. I was playing 2nl single tabling again. After 2-3 hours I've managed to win another $9. Which is really useful for the BR and I'm much happier about todays progress now.
I think I might need to start paying more attention to Omaha. I seem to have more of an edge at 2nl Omaha than I do 2nl Holdem. I want to do the whole FR grinding at NLH and eventually earn decent money at it but while I'm in the early stages of this OP especially during phase 1 ($20 - $100) Omaha is really providing a nice boost to the progress.
Yeah I'm pleased with how things are going are at the moment.
C'mon Slevin "You can do it"- Waterboy ;) I really think you have to put it all together and just do what you know is right. There's no question you can beat the first few levels of cash, so just go out there and do it. Set goals but not time limits and yo'll be fine. Man I need to listen to my own advice lol. GL GL GL
Slev....what happened to the alternative methods of restarting your BR that we discussed on friday night. ALso , is omaha really the game to be playing with a fledgling bankroll or is it pandering to the gambling instinct again.
Yea, you do seem to play Omaha pretty well, according to this op.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Slevin...
Stop thinking about "edges" at 2NL, 5NL, and the rest of the microstakes. Start thinking about "understanding the game"
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/bce...om-ilike2partyQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Thanks mate! Also that's great what I read in your blog that you're learning from my mistakes. Now I just need to continue to do likewise! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by connectthesuitors
Hey Keith, well... freerolls just take too long so I decided against them. The no deposit offers I ruled out for a couple of reasons, alot I'd already tried, and whenever I move from Stars I miss Stars too much. Volume is a big plus, but then there's the decent interface etc... Also I have alot of time on my hands at the moment and didn't want to waste any of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
Yeah I enjoy Omaha PlayToWin I think the fish factor will diminish as the stakes get higher so for a sustainable plan of moving up and earning some money I'm sticking with NLH as my focus, but yeah I do tend to do well at the ultra micro Omaha, just adds a bit of spice to my daily sessions! =)Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
This is definately a key focus for me Jack I think my understanding will grow as I move up, but don't worry I'm definately not neglecting to think about things just because I'm playing 2nl!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Phase I - 2nl : Day 2 - Sunday March 8th
___________________________________________
Opening BR: $41 | Closing BR: $87 | Profit/Loss: +$46
___________________________________________
Thought for the day:
"Poker is 50% Psychological."
Track for the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN7wHnmsHcU
2NL went well today, after the losing session yesterday I wasn't looking forward to it to be honest. My desire for grinding 2NL was at an all time low. Of course this is partly because I've been there done that and have the t-shirt having only graduated from 2nl last week, combine that with yesterday's losing session and it'd be fair to say I didn't have my usual enthusiasm for the full ring grind!
Anyway I told myself that I not only needed to get back on to the 2NL tables for the bankrolls sake but I needed to get some momentum back, I told myself that the losing session yesterday will come good if I just focus and play my game. I'm pleased to say it did, I played 2700 hands today and averaged 27.84BB/100 for a total profit of $30.20. I'm really pleased with this. I approached it as I would a job, I didn't 'really' want to play 2NL, but I knew I had to for the bankroll and to build my confidence back up at NLH. Now I have done I have my confidence back and am eager for the next session. Which is a much better feeling.
I also played some more SNGs today. Before my 2NL session I played 4 $1 + 0.20 SNGs and cashed in three, finishing 1st in two of them and 3rd in another - for a total profit of $6 which was really nice. I'm slowly getting brainwashed by JGBs voice, I've started playing a SNG video in the background and just listening to the audio as I play the SNGs, given that I've only tried to play SNGs once or twice and have never looked into any SNG specific strategy I think I'm going to have to put the SNG success down to this new brainwashing technique I've implemented. :lol:
Omaha also continued to be kind to me today, I played some just before the main 2NL session, for about two hours single tabling and ended up a little under $10 in profit which was great.
A pretty great day - and a real motivator to continue knuckling down and building the bankroll. I've managed to grind $46 of profit for my small bankroll so it shouldn't be too much longer before I'm able to re-enter 5NL which I'm looking forward to. :cool:
Todays thought of the day, that poker is 50% psychological is so true. I was thinking to myself today as my 2NL session started to wind down how there's a good analogy between the mental aspects of snooker and poker. You often hear a commentator speaking about a players 'b game'. The world class players have a great 'b game', when it's not quite going right for them, they can switch gears and grind away at the table and still win the important frames.
Yesterday after the 2NL I felt a bit flat, I mean I'd played 800 hands and lost. My Omaha carried my bankroll yesterday and although it was very welcome I couldn't help but feel dissapointed in the 2NL session, after all that's what I thought I had cracked, and that's what I've spent months learning how to beat.
But a good poker player needs a good B game. They have to stay 110% on top of themselves and their game. That's what I did today by opening up 2NL and putting yesterday's session out of my mind and it payed off, by having a good 'b game' and not letting yesterday's session get to me, I was able to enjoy a great 'a game' today. I'm going to remember this the next time I play for 2+ hours and come out of the session showing a loss. The win that will wipe that negative session out, may well be just around the corner.
Onwards and upwards :twisted:
One thing to consider, It may be worth you cashing out the initial deposit when you hit say $100 and grind 2NL for an extra couple of daysto get back to 100$ before you try moving up.
In your case there would be several benefits.If you did go ape shit again it wouldn't be the deposit gone again , you then just redeposit the 26$ and start over. Maybe do that at each $100 milestone marker. That way you can start to recover the deposits you have already lost and if the worst comes to the worst , you can then deposit back in and start at a higher level.It would be a modification of your original plan but would effectively mean that some of your bankroll is being kept off the poker site as a contingency fund and is not "available" for a nights madness chasing losses.
i think if slev is determined to ever change the way he views his BR, withdrawing $100 every time he makes it at 2NL is seriously going to hinder his chances.
grind 2NL, 5NL, 10NL etcetc until you're making a decent return - then consider withdrawing imo.
my guess is if you stay at 2NL forever because you keep makign withdrawals, one day you're just going to get frustrated/bored and the demons will coem back.
gl, and gg yesterdat.
maybe I wasn't clear , when he hits 100$ to withdraw the 25$ . then grind it up back up to 100 and then move up to 5nl. carry on grinding 5NL til he hits 200$ and withdraw another 25$ then carry on grinding till he hits 300$ withdraw another 25.grind back to 300 and move up to 10NL.
He still gets to move up but builds a contingency fund as he's going so that he wont have to put fresh money in again.
Thanks man yeah I am definately more determined than ever, there's just no room for error now, having to grind back from scratch has really ingrained the lesson that I just can't make the same mistake again. Also every time I feel like playing outside my BR Chardrians two types of poker come to my mind, poker as a profession and poker as a big slot machine - and I realise how stupid it would be to do anything other than play disciplined poker within my BR. I can gamble or play poker when you look at playing within and out of a bankroll like that, it's a bit of a no-brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by sil693
Thanks for your suggestion Keith, you're not alone - a very good friend who has been following this OP suggested some kind of contingency plan also, although his was simply to withdraw $10 for every $100 I make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
I see where you're both coming from and it's really good to know you're thinking like this trying to protect me from future failure but to be honest I can't allow the need for a contingency ever to arise again. I'm either going to make it as a professional poker player or I'm not and to make it I just need to lose the old Slevin and play with discipline. Thinking of the slot machine analogy really helps.
Failure is not an option anymore. Also yeah I don't think I could take playing 2NL for any longer than I need to. That's part of the incentive that helps push me on that I'm going to move up.
Nothing less than 100% focus and professionalism in future.
when i feel like gambling (i have a LOLgambling issure fwiw) i fire open omahahahahaha or NLHE play money tables and shove my tits off preflop.
ahhhh the satisfaction of knowing my money is safe and sound.
Taking a break from the tables as I felt myself getting tilted every hand I play I'm getting sucked out on or coolered! Here are a few from my 865 hand session I just played.
1.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($2.03)
UTG ($1.02)
UTG+1 ($2.76)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($2.04)
MP3 ($3.25)
Hero (CO) ($2.68)
Button ($2.07)
SB ($0.92)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, MP3 bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, 4 folds
Flop: ($0.29) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets $0.17, Hero raises to $0.40, MP3 raises to $1.85, Hero raises to $2.56 (All-In), MP3 calls $0.71
Turn: ($5.41) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($5.41) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $5.41 | Rake: $0.25
Results:
MP3 had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, Aces).
Hero mucked Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: MP3 won $5.16
2. This maniac was 90/30 over 22 hands
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($2)
UTG ($2.24)
UTG+1 ($1.19)
MP1 ($0.68)
MP2 ($5.63)
Hero (MP3) ($2.04)
CO ($1.79)
Button ($2.58)
SB ($2.26)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
UTG bets $0.08, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, 1 fold, Button raises to $1.40, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.04 (All-In), Button calls $0.64
Flop: ($4.19) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($4.19) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($4.19) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $4.19 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Button had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: Button won $3.99
3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($4.70)
Button ($2.30)
SB ($0.99)
BB ($0.73)
UTG ($4.36)
Hero (UTG+1) ($2)
MP1 ($1.42)
MP2 ($3.42)
MP3 ($3.23)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10, 4 folds
Flop: ($0.35) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $1.90 (All-In), CO calls $1.20
Turn: ($4.15) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($4.15) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $4.15 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Queens).
CO had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: CO won $3.95
4. slightly underbet here, as a misclick - but I don't think it made any difference. I dunno maybe I should have put it down. Don't think so though down here at 2nl...
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($4.79)
Button ($1.92)
SB ($2.51)
BB ($5.16)
UTG ($2.62)
UTG+1 ($2.90)
MP1 ($3.12)
Hero (MP2) ($2)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, CO calls $0.08, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06
Flop: ($0.33) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds
Turn: ($0.93) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.93, CO raises to $2.26, Hero calls $0.69 (All-In)
River: ($4.17) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $4.17 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, Queens and fives).
CO had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, Jacks over fives).
Outcome: CO won $3.97
5. I played this hand badly, shouldn't have called the re-raise on the flop, shouldn't have stacked off. I knew he had a full house... I told myself he had a full house... I typed into the chatbox... you have a full house, yet I called. Only bad call of the session though, but I'm still annoyed at this.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($1.11)
UTG ($1.42)
UTG+1 ($3.07)
MP1 ($3.48)
MP2 ($2.65)
Hero (CO) ($2.31)
Button ($3.14)
SB ($2.04)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.10, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08
Flop: ($0.33) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.38, Hero calls $0.22
Turn: ($1.09) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.38, Hero calls $0.38
River: ($1.85) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.64, Hero calls $0.64
Total pot: $3.13 | Rake: $0.15
Results:
MP1 had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, fours over Queens).
Hero mucked Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: MP1 won $2.98
6. I bet the turn because I didn't want him to have the opportunity to bluff me off the hand.. bad idea. I'm not really pleased with how I played this hand... Should I be folding to any aggression post flop here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($1.20)
MP ($2.41)
CO ($4.67)
Button ($1.04)
SB ($2.95)
Hero (BB) ($2)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG calls $0.02, MP (poster) checks, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero bets $0.16, UTG calls $0.14, 2 folds, Button calls $0.14, SB calls $0.14
Flop: ($0.68) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.58, UTG calls $0.58, 2 folds
Turn: ($1.84) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.26 (All-In), UTG calls $0.46 (All-In)
River: ($2.76) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $2.76 | Rake: $0.10
Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, Aces and Queens).
UTG had 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: UTG won $2.66
Oh well down $4.46 for the session after that, thankfully I've made more than enough in Omaha and the few sngs I've played to cover that lost but arghhh! Not a great session.
Will take a break for an hour or two before I play my last session of the day. :facepalm:
Did i see you on stars today sir??? LkySlev1n ???
Yeah that's me!
Yeah i said hi but i guess you had top many tables open haha!!
Oh sorry Sycha, yeah I was 12 tabling didn't see the chat box, what's your stars SN - sorry for not noticing!
haha! Its okay sir. its Schya, ive had bad luck as of late or i just suck lol.
I'll keep my eye out for you on the tables!
That's the great thing with practicing decent BR you can withstand the bad luck if you're getting it! hmm... If you want you can send me your last couple hundred hands and I'll take a look at them over the next day or so and see if I can give you some feedback. If you want me to take a look, just drop me a pm and I'll send you my email address.
Ehh ive been making some not so bright calls that i DO know. Still trying to ingrain into my head to FOLD MORE. haha. If im having trouble within the next week i will take you up on that offer my friend! I think having only a few tables open i may try to think things to much as opposed to just do what comes natural.
Phase I - 2nl : Day 3 - Monday March 9th
___________________________________________
Opening BR: $87 | Closing BR: $86 | Profit/Loss: -$1
___________________________________________
Thought for the day:
"My bankroll is a tool not a bag of cash"
Track for the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_zLBsRYD8w
Once again Omaha is helping the bankroll as is the odd SNG. At one point I was actually rolled for 5NL today as I hit the $100 BR.
Thanks to almost $10 in Omaha profit and a very small positive return on some SNGs before I started my main 2NL session my BR was at $97. So here I am at $97 odd bankroll playing 2NL stack a couple of people after about an hour and all of a sudden the BR is now ready for 5NL - $101.
This is where things started to decline, I decided to stay at 2NL for a little while and grind a few extra dollars to pad the BR out a little. Pretty much all the hands I posted above followed which gave me a losing session of about $4. I've just finished the second 2NL session, and I just can't believe how I'm running. I was set over setted (he raises pre, I call with IO - flop is A6x I have a set of 6's - we stack off on the flop after some re-raising and he has a set of Aces over my 6's). Then later in the session I virtually stack off on the flop with a made straight and nut flush draw. Turn pairs the board I'm getting like 4/1 on the call when he puts the rest of my stack in (it was a 3way pot by now) so of course I insta call, and he shows down a full house - his set of kings already improved to a full house by the turn.
In total I played 1300 hands today of 2NLH and am -$9.91 for the session.
Anyway I stopped the session it just wasn't going well and I was starting to feel it. It wasn't a nice feeling. I felt pretty crap to be honest. So I sat down and started thinking about why that was. 5BI downswings happen... I know that much from reading these forums. So I shouldn't let it bother me, but it was bothering me and I knew this would hinder future progress. I needed to find out why I was feeling like I was, I needed to figure a way of changing my thinking so I'm not feeling as bad when this happens again.
Attachment. I shouldn't attach myself to the profit of any one day, or to whatever value my bankroll is. My bankroll is a dynamic tool that I use to play poker with. Like a tennis player uses a tennis racquet or a cyclist uses a bike. It is not a bag of cash, it is not money that I own. It's $value may fluctuate greatly but this is insignificant. The key is that I have the tool in the first place and that it is functioning properly. Functioning properly in this context simply means it can support the minimum number of buyins for whatever stake I'm playing. That's all that matters. The money I 'made' today, wasn't money in my pocket, it was simply something that temporarily modified my bankroll. My bankroll is still there. It's still functioning fine, and it's still allowing me to play solid poker, that's all that matters.
The main thing is that through many combined sessions, month on month the bankroll grows. Individual sessions, days or weeks, are of little consequence.
By remembering this and changing my thinking I intend to avoid the feelings of loss that come with the inevitable occasional losing sessions in future. The value of my bankroll at any one time is not money I possess, so I should not feel feelings of loss and frustration when the bankroll decreases. It's natural bankrolls decrease and increase. The important thing and the thing that will earn significant money over a long sustained period of time, is not the size of my bankroll at any one moment of time, but the descisions I make at the table.
So the one thing I'm taking from todays session is the thought that my bankroll is a tool. It is not a bag of cash I'm carrying around with me. To feel loss because the bankroll declines is wrong. My focus for the rest of the week is to fix that faulty thinking by constantly reminding myself that my bankroll is something I use to play poker with and its value at any one moment in time is irrelevent. Here's to a good session tomorrow!
Slev that is a very good approach, I have had a problem when down a few BI that i MUST make it back. But looking at it how you put it will help, I shall start to try this set of thinking as well. It is NOT money in my pocket. Good thoughts sir and keep trucking along!
Thanks Schya :)
Some nice results from some SNGs and some decent Omaha (another $8) and phase 1 is complete. BR currently $102.
Now I've crossed the $100 BR hurdle I'm going to switch to focussing exclusively on NLH. The omaha and SNGs were nice while I was stuck at 2NL but now it's time to really concentrate on the 5NL and upwards.
Phase II started!
best of luck to you sir. do things properly this time.
fwiw, if you screw around outside your BR again and donk away another roll, I won't be following any future Op's. I'm sure I'm not the only person to think this.
now GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!
Cheers sick bad run from yesterdaycontinues, not really what you want when just moving up. I've had pocket rockets bust 3 times in less than 300 hands amongst other things. Mehh i'm not going to let it bother me what will be will be. Currently about 4 buyins down, will update later when I finish the last session.
1.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG+1 ($1.60)
MP1 ($5.61)
MP2 ($9.80)
CO ($5.23)
Hero (Button) ($5.48)
SB ($5.14)
BB ($1.83)
UTG ($4.50)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, CO checks, Hero bets $0.35, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.30, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.82) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.85, MP2 calls $0.85
Turn: ($2.52) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $2, MP2 raises to $5.75, Hero calls $2.28 (All-In)
River: ($11.08) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $11.08 | Rake: $0.55
Results:
Hero mucked Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Aces).
MP2 had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (straight, Queen high).
Outcome: MP2 won $10.60
2. Should of been more careful the guy was 40/16 though over 30 hands or I wouldn't be calling with AJ... Definately should've folded to the flop shove ldo. This was one of the last hands I played obv wasn't on top of my game by now!
Hero (SB) ($5.09)
BB ($5)
UTG ($5.65)
MP ($6.66)
CO ($5.54)
Button ($5.77)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, CO bets $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.18, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.45) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.35, Hero raises to $1, CO raises to $5.34 (All-In), Hero calls $3.89 (All-In)
Turn: ($10.23) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($10.23) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $10.23 | Rake: $0.50
Results:
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, Aces and sixes).
CO had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (two pair, Aces and sixes).
Outcome: CO won $9.73
3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (BB) ($6.49)
UTG ($4.47)
MP1 ($12.17)
MP2 ($6.93)
CO ($3.86)
Button ($5.49)
SB ($5.86)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.05, MP1 calls $0.05, 4 folds, Hero bets $0.25, UTG calls $0.20, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.57) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.45, UTG calls $0.45
Turn: ($1.47) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, UTG raises to $3.77 (All-In), Hero calls $2.37
River: ($9.01) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $9.01 | Rake: $0.40
Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Aces).
UTG had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (two pair, Kings and nines).
Outcome: UTG won $8.61
4.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($9.83)
SB ($7.17)
BB ($2.83)
UTG ($2.72)
UTG+1 ($10.17)
Hero (MP1) ($5.42)
MP2 ($6.25)
MP3 ($1.95)
CO ($2.10)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.20, 3 folds, BB calls $0.15
Flop: ($0.62) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.60, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60
Turn: ($1.82) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.30, BB calls $1.30
River: ($4.42) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.73, BB calls $0.73 (All-In)
Total pot: $5.88 | Rake: $0.25
Results:
BB had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (three of a kind, tens).
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (two pair, Aces and tens).
Outcome: BB won $5.63
5.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP1 ($2.41)
MP2 ($3.95)
CO ($2.79)
Hero (Button) ($8.39)
SB ($5)
BB ($2.18)
UTG ($8.13)
UTG+1 ($6.49)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.05, MP1 calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.25
Flop: ($0.72) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.65, MP1 calls $0.65
Turn: ($2.02) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $1.45, MP1 raises to $1.46 (All-In), Hero calls $0.01
River: ($4.94) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $4.94 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Hero mucked Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
MP1 had 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (flush, Ace high).
Outcome: MP1 won $4.74
Edit: Well it's amazing what a time out can do for you, I don't feel tilted anymore but I did. Could have been worse, could have been deep with the aces... And the AJ was just retarded from me - so I'd only be 3 buy ins down if it wasn't for that.
With the BR at $80 I don't feel comfortable playing at 5NL. I mean lose another couple of buyins and then I'd be back at 2NL for the zillionth time. I've decided to pad the BR out myself so am depositing another $70 to take it back to $150 and continuing with 5NL.
I'm going to wait until I have 35 buyins before I start 10NL so need another $200 profit. I'm going to continue to be a bit of a BR nit as I move up as I think this will help my game.
I'd like to be able to report some good news but it's been another pretty terrible session. Down another two and a bit buy ins over 3k of hands. Mostly due to suckouts, here are some hands from the last session: -
1.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (UTG) ($6.27)
MP ($12.85)
CO ($8.51)
Button ($8.65)
SB ($10)
BB ($2.56)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, 2 folds, BB calls $0.15
Flop: ($0.62) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.55, CO calls $0.55, 1 fold
Turn: ($1.72) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.60, CO raises to $3.20, Hero raises to $5.52 (All-In), CO calls $2.32
River: ($12.76) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $12.76 | Rake: $0.60
Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (one pair, Aces).
CO had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (two pair, Aces and fours).
Outcome: CO won $12.16
2.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG+1 ($1.93)
MP1 ($1.84)
MP2 ($3.91)
Hero (CO) ($10.05)
Button ($10.35)
SB ($10.20)
BB ($5.17)
UTG ($2.43)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold, SB calls $0.23, BB calls $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20
Flop: ($1) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.90, 1 fold, BB calls $0.90, 1 fold
Turn: ($2.80) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $4.02 (All-In), Hero calls $2.02
River: ($10.84) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $10.84 | Rake: $0.50
Results:
BB had 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (flush, Jack high).
Hero mucked Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: BB won $10.34
3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($10.04)
BB ($5.35)
UTG ($10.69)
UTG+1 ($6.37)
MP1 ($7.93)
MP2 ($7.84)
CO ($4.64)
Hero (Button) ($5.05)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
5 folds, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.18, BB calls $0.15
Flop: ($0.60) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.40, 1 fold, BB raises to $5.15 (All-In), Hero calls $3.45 (All-In)
Turn: ($10.30) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($10.30) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $10.30 | Rake: $0.50
Results:
Hero mucked Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Queens).
BB had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (flush, Ace high).
Outcome: BB won $9.80
4. I hate getting beat by trash =(
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($12.17)
UTG ($3.26)
UTG+1 ($2.49)
MP1 ($6.33)
MP2 ($4.57)
CO ($5.55)
Button ($9.91)
Hero (SB) ($5.58)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 calls $0.05, 2 folds, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.35, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.30, CO calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.15) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.05, CO calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.80, UTG+1 calls $0.75, 1 fold
Turn: ($2.80) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.34 (All-In)
River: ($5.48) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $5.48 | Rake: $0.25
Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Aces).
UTG+1 had 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (straight, six high).
Outcome: UTG+1 won $5.23
My 5nl graph since I started earlier today
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8376/5nlsofar.png
This is the hardest poker I've had to endure since I started playing, it gets kinda frustrating to grind 3k of hands and finish another 2 BI down. Not sure what the solution is at the moment. Will keep you posted! I think for a start I'm going to downgrade to four tables and see if I can pick up some reads.
Good luck big guy. We all go through this kind of thing. I would say dropping down tables is definitely a good idea until you feel comfortable again (and start winning). You're just on a major cooler from the looks of some of those hands.
You'll be winning again in no time. GL!
Thanks Cbat - I'm going to take a break from 5NL for now and play some SNGs If the BR drops to 80 I'm stopping for the rest of the week. The coolering is relentless at the moment, These are next three hands I played since posting earlier... Two are headsup as the table broke up, but I just don't think 5NL is for me at the moment! This is a message to take a break for a bit I think =)
1.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($10.11)
Hero (SB) ($5.07)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Button bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.15
Flop: ($0.40) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Button raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $0.50
Turn: ($2.40) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3.87 (All-In), Button calls $3.87
River: ($10.14) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $10.14 | Rake: $0.50
Results:
Button had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, Jacks over fours).
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (three of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $9.64
2.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($14.68)
Hero (Button) ($5)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Hero bets $0.25, SB calls $0.20
Flop: ($0.50) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB calls $0.50
Turn: ($1.50) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2
River: ($5.50) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.25 (All-In), SB calls $2.25
Total pot: $10 | Rake: $0.45
Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, Kings and Queens).
SB had 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (three of a kind, eights).
Outcome: SB won $9.55
3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($5)
SB ($3.14)
BB ($3.17)
UTG ($4.32)
UTG+1 ($6.65)
MP1 ($4.40)
MP2 ($3.73)
MP3 ($5.28)
CO ($14.27)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 calls $0.05, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.35, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30, 3 folds
Flop: ($0.87) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.90, BB calls $0.80
Turn: ($2.67) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.45, Hero raises to $3.75 (All-In), BB calls $1.47 (All-In)
River: ($6.51) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $6.51 | Rake: $0.30
Results:
Hero mucked Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (three of a kind, Kings).
BB had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (full house, Kings over Queens).
Outcome: BB won $6.21
Man, it's tough to know what lesson to learn from those hands. That's f'in brutal. Good move going to 4 tables, imo.
Cheers playtowin the sngs were a good idea I've managed to cash in 3 out of 4 $20 double or nothings so am just about back to my $150 bankroll. I took a shot at a $20 prepared to move down to $10 (following the min 10BI advice for don's) should I lose but thankfully cashed which was nice. Then won the next two out of three.
I played a ton of these on the boss network when I was playing there for the FTR holiday promotion, they're called 'coolers' on the Boss network - because you can play so tight and still profit. The change of pace is just the sort of thing I needed.
It's funny the crazy thoughts that enter your head when you go through a bad phase of run like that, I've never experienced it before, usually I've been unlucky for 3 or 4 hands in a close time frame, but not over thousands of hands like this, It was a new experience to me. Illogical thoughts such as I wonder if someone has hacked the PS software for a joke and changed all the probabilities came into my mind.. lol - yeah I know that's a crazy thought and absurd to even think lol.
I guess this is all part of becoming a winning poker player. Just as well I'm playing with a decent bankroll strategy at last or I think this would have been too much pressure to handle. So my 5NL stats show me 8BI's down on the first day, looks like I have some serious grinding to do over the next few days :boohoo:
I'm going to be updating this blog less frequently for the next while as I focus on the poker but I'll update it from time to time to let everyone know how things are going, after the sessions I'll just post main hands that I want to review in the main forums for now. I like blogging but I have a tendency to write alot and often and I think it makes me over think things ;-) It's simply a matter of sticking within a decent BR strategy and playing good poker now and climbing out of the micros ASAP within those rules. I know from reading FTR that these things happen from time to time so why spend so much energy telling everyone lol... anyway thanks guys for the confirmation that I was getting coolered and not mis playing the hands, appreciate it!
i just read the entire 4 pages..(not like thats a feat of some sort..)...but i am impressed to say the least....
Nah, you just play bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
You are playing poker to build your bankroll not to improve at poker. This means you are pushing where you have no edge and end up in high variance 0 EV situations.
You need to learn pot control.
You need to respect people's raises. Why is he raising? Sometimes the smallest raise is the one you should fold to most often as it's the size the villain choses when he wants you to continue. He wants you to continue because he's stupidly strong.
You overplay top pair/over pairs. Think about SPR - what's a good SPR for a TP or overpair to stack off? You routinely stack off with SPRS above 10. That can't be good. There's nothing wrong with occasionally checking a street with a top pair/over pair and keeping more of the villain's weak range in the hand to pay you off another street instead of constantly pushing pushing pushing and ensuring that if he does call or play back at you he definitely has you crushed.
Check a street occasionally. Fold occasionally.
When your opponent wants to build a big pot proceed with caution and top pair/overpairs are only good if you have a read on the villain that says so.
Even when your opponent isn't trying to build a big pot sometimes you get more value out of a hand by playing the occasional street passively to keep your perceived range wider and weaker. Sometimes it's right to let the opponent improve to a second best hand.
The multitabling nits bible says to play pocket pairs to a single raise, make sets and stack off. It doesn't say to hit top pair and stack off.
Oh btw, all the slapping in the previous post is fully intentional. Stop whining and start analysing. Open your mind.
I'm not saying my analysis is anywhere near spot on. In fact, I'd be surprised if it was. I'd hope you would call me out on the bullshit I spew, but I'm afraid you'll just thank me for the help and go on your merry way.
STOP.
THINK.
Accept this: You have lost because you play bad.
How have you played bad? This is for you to find out.
I think you're on a big fat dose of entitlement tilt. You're not satisfied to wait for +EV situations to arise and money to fall into your lap - you want to make it happen, you want to build your bankroll, so you push where you have no edge and play a lot of huge pots with around 0EV. 0EV can be achieved by folding, and I think you're probably embracing variance for no good reason. Your poker would be so much more profitable if you just embrace patience and wait for the good situations. And while waiting, start entertaining more types of good situations than just hitting top pair and stacking off. That's a pretty narrow strategy that can't be profitable very high.
wait.
you were playing $20 DoNs with a roll of between $100-$140?
THISQuote:
Originally Posted by sil693
Wtf slevin. Had you lost them, we would just be hearing, "O you guys know what happened... I donked away my roll again..." Like wtf possesses you to play SO far outside your BRM? I just don't get it. You have been saying how you want to "get out of the gambler's mentality" when it comes to poker, and "stop treating it like a slot machine." Well for the love of God man, DO IT ALREADY.
I don't see how anyone who is as dedicated to not losing/sucking continues to shoot himself in the foot with improper BRM. I mean shit, yea I did it in the first month of my blog/operation, but I got lucky and managed to rebuild my trashed roll, but I LEARNED FROM MY ONE MISTAKE. I just don't understand it I guess...
Good luck and all that junk, because it seems your game is more about luck than EV...
triple WTF! $20 DoN????
Slev, stop all this jumping around. "oh, Omaha I run good, this is my game", "Oh look, I won some hands of $10nl, $100nl here I come!", "Easy money at DoN", ......
just knuckle the fuck down at $5nl or where ever the f you're rolled for, and get on with it.
wat.
I'm done. You're going to lose everything you own coz ur dumb. Maybe then you'll learn your lesson.
one...fucking...week ago you blew your roll playing lame-ass DoNs above your roll. Now you do it again on slightly cheaper (but still above your roll) DoNs? And now you decide it was a "good idea" because you happen to luckbox a few?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
*headasplode*
:lynch: :cut: :puke: :jackoff: :hand:
Jesus Christ Slev.
Jesus Christ.
Hang on a sec I played one $20 with the intention of moving down to $10 if I lost it, I wasn't going to gamble my role away, after I posted about my success I lost one of those DON's if I was doing the same thing I did last week I'd have then played a 50 but I had no intention of doing that. I didn't really luckbox them I have spent a fair amount of time learning how to beat them, they are low variance and I've played about 300 in the last 4 months, on Boss I was playing 20,30 and 50 euro DONs so I do have some practice with them. If you guys think 10BI's for these is too aggressive let me know and I'll stop playing them. Erpel interesting what you say, I don't think I nescesarily agree, but interesting. I'm taking coaching within the next week or two - so hopefully that'll help me figure out if I am actually playing badly and if I am I shouldn't be for much longer. Wilburfoce I have just short of $200 BR at the moment, I was going to try 10NL as that's what I'm starting my coaching sessions with, but I'm not going to following your advice I'm sticking with 5NL cheers. As always thanks for the comments guys, don't worry, there will be no more busting of bankrolls, I have not got the time to waste running around square one in a loop anymore so am not going to waste my last bankroll (which this certainly is) I can assure you!
Yes you did, winning any single tournament requires an amount of luck which is why we have BRM.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
You can rationalize your BRM degeneracy any way you want but it's still bad and is the reason you keep going broke. So you didn't risk your ENTIRE roll, good, that's better than your recent drunken hijinx -- but risking 1/8th of your roll is still bad.
How many hours of 5NL grinding on average do you have to do to win 4BI?
"oh, I'll just play THIS ONE tourney, then move down if I lose"
sounds a little too much like an alcoholic saying
"oh, I'll just have THIS ONE drink, then drink water"
...coming from you, given your history...
:facepalm: Seriously slevin... you just don't get it. You have said that you want to spend the time learning the game, and take the time to get good. Now you're saying you don't have time to spend at square one anymore. What is the big hurry? Seriously, you can luckbox ur way to a 10 or 25nl BR, but you wont be able to do anything with it becuz u havent learned the necessary skills to beat that level. THATS WHAT THE MICROSTAKES ARE FOR.
You have to learn to beat 2nl first, then 5nl, THEN 10nl+. Seriously, I spent forever at 2nl, but if felt so liberating to know I beat it properly. Now I'm at 5nl and beating it quite handily too. I feel my game will be ready for 10nl soon, and I will take my shot when my BR permits, but you just want to get on the fast track and try to gambool your BR to win a small sum, instead of taking the time to pwn the stakes like you should and make consistent money over the long run.
Whatever dude... You need help, fast, but I dont think there is anyone around that cares anymore. Good luck to you sir.
Dranger 'whatever you need help' is a little OTT I don't think you actually said anything constructive in your post but thanks anyway.
When you put it like that Dozer...Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
I guess it wasn't the most sensible thing I could have done, in the past losing 10-20% of my role resulted in me playing outside of any BR and crashing my BR. I had no intention of continuing if I had lost, but then again, I haven't in the past, while I felt more disciplined this time around, I shouldn't have put myself in that potential pressure situation so early on in the rebuild and so soon after playing a huge losing session. The biggest EV thing about my blog that it often points out to me quickly and plainly if I've done something wrong. I was going to play another round of $20 DoN's I won't now I'll head back to the 5NL tables. Thanks Dozer I value your advice and thanks everyone else for their comments.
Im actually quite certain almost everything I said should have been helpful. I was basically telling you that you shouldn't have (or want) to gamble with your BR if you want be a winning poker player. You have to learn to control your impulses, or you will never make it. You stated in a post that you were going to take a shot at 10nl soon after you won those $20 DoN's. Why would you even attempt 10nl when you've just had a couple of losing sessions at 5nl and you haven't proven you can beat it? Its just senseless waste of you BR.
THAT is what I meant about you needing help. You need help realizing that risking 10-20% of your BR on a stupid luckbox tournament is dumb. You need help learning to not gamble with your roll. You need help not wanting to move up in stakes before you are ready. You just need help lol. Get your head screwed on straight.
Don't even try to play the fool either. You KNEW that playing those DoN's was bad BRM, just because you've played them before and have had some "experience" with them doesn't justify going out of your roll to play them. Do you understand now why I'm getting so pissed off? I dont want to watch you destroy your roll again. I'm sick of seeing you get grilled by everyone on FTR because you did something stupid.
Dranger I don't care much for your tone, if you can't communicate in a respectful fashion please don't bother.
Hahaha whatever dude. Ill just not post on ur op anymore, but don't say I didn't tell you so when you donk off your roll again.
Good luck
It's not nice having people talk down to you Dranger, Muzzard has a way of tilting me when he posts I shouldnt let that bother me but I still do. That affected the way I read your blunt, yet well intentioned advice. I've re-read it objectively and can see I probabally mis interpreted it. Anyway sorry for that. My ego was dented, it usually is when I've done something dumb and get slated for it in my blog. That was my ego responding to you, sorry, and thanks for your well intentioned comments.
Slev ...I really am surprised by what I'm reading.when we chatted before the sweat sesh we did,i talked about no deposit options to get your bankroll going without risking any more of your own money ..Next thing we're reading that you have deposited 26$ anyway because you couldnt wait and hey i've learnt my lesson now I'm going to grind this up and use bankroll management.
you still play omaha though which i think is probably higher variance than holdem.then we're reading that you are playing 20$ double or nothings and roll is approaching $200 all in less than 5 days. As Dranger said you're now thinking of virtually skipping 5NL and jumping to 10nl.
The whole theme running through this is that you have no patience. You want it all and you want it now.You're mouthing words like bankroll management but maybe in your case the words being used should be RISK MANAGEMENT. this also encompasses bankroll management but you should really step back and think how risky every part of your play is. Why be a jack of all trades instead of mastering one . It comes across as though you get bored incredibly quickly with one particular game and jump across to another. Whiilst some skills will transfer between games they all have different skill sets. Youre playing omaha, 5NL and SNG's. Why can't you just pick one genre and try and master it. You can still move up the levels and the game will change as you go .
It also screams of the gambler in you being unfettered and coming out to play. ok you didnt donk off all the bankroll (yet) but you are putting far too high a % of your roll on the line at any one time. Have you actually withdrawn any and put on one side as a contingency fund ..or is that always going to be a case of i'm going to get to the next level before i do that .
Maybe for you , what you should be doing is giving a commitment to only playing one type of game and instead of a monetary amount before you move up , set a date and bankroll before you move up .i.e commit to grinding 5NL for a month unless the bankroll drops to $100 when you'd then move down.You could then only move up for 11th Aprill and as long as you have a $300 bankroll. this will help to drum in some patience and reinforce the bankroll management.
[ ] BRM ITT
The best way to turn into a loser at this game is to think that there is nothing more for you to learn. I make mistakes (and I mean, lots) - you make mistakes.
Your ego gets in the way A LOT. It's very true when people say that you are your own worst enemy (not specific to you, but in general for all poker players). You need to accept that regardless how far you've come there are whole dimensions to this poker thing you don't yet know exist and haven't explored in any meaningful detail.
Refusing to take some money offline is stupidity. You're saying that it has to go right this time - you can't mess it up this time. Why not? You're human. You make mistakes. Rather than getting stubborn and stupid and saying that failure is not an option own up, admit that failure IS an option and make sure you have a plan to address it. That's the professional way to do it and the reason risk and bankroll management are key poker skills.
The reason we're all harsh on you is something you probably know. Unfortunately knowing is not helpful. Your opposition here, your villain, is your ego. We deliberately go out of our way to give your ego a good bashing to help you examine it more closely. Your ego is responding here and trying to pretend the problem is something other than what it is. Knowing that we're in effect trying to manipulate you to let you help yourself makes it easier for you to dismiss the bashing. You've got to let it sink in.
I think you are very much on entitlement tilt. You play poker now not to improve but to build a bankroll, of that I am certain. It's all you talk about - the size of your bankroll and the bankroll growth which you are (rightly) proud of. It's counterproductive. Aggressive bankroll management is just a different word for gambling.
Now read these:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ed-t57951.html
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ed-t58178.html
You need to make sure your bankroll provides a statistically sound ability for you to be playing the levels you are playing. On top of that you need to exercise the balancing act GW describes.
Tell me truly: Do you think about the size of your bankroll while you are playing?
What do you think that means?
When I joined FTR I did so to learn how to make money at the game, but then I was told I had to play the ultra- micros to start.
The sensible side of me knows this is right as everyone hear knows what they're talking about the fact that the money was insignificant at 2NL made it about ten times harder. At 5NL it's a little easier because although the stakes are still small if you win 6 BI in a day, which can happen from time to time that's $30 and at least approaching something usuable.
Part of the reason I have gambled with my BR so much in the past is because once I spend days grinding, if I then lose some and the roll moves back to about $50 I think the amount I have to gain by playing outside of that roll outweighs what I have to lose. I can deposit $50 next week or the week after If I lose it, but If I get it back to $100 at least I'm not stuck in that infernal 2NL grind anymore, thats the thinking anyway. It's when I lose that I gamble my BR, because I think I've got more to gain than I have to lose by playing outside of my bankroll when it's so low and can be redposited.
What actually happened recently was this. I deposited £20 ($27) I grinded I lost some 2NL, I won alot of Omaha, I won some small $1 SNGs. I then had a day where I crushed 2NL won about $30 in one day. Next day I lose some more at 2NL. Next day I lose some more at 2NL. Then I lose some Omaha. I went from $101 to $80 in the same day. Then I thought jesus I'm going to be grinding 2NL for the next week to get that back, It isn't worth it. I may as well try to win it back so I can start 5nl again which is where I would have been anyway if I'd have just stopped when I was $100 at 2NL. Countless people have told me wheather you start your poker journey at 2nl, 5NL, or 10NL doesn't matter it's bankroll dependent but there's no real knowledge to be gained by progressing through those ultra micros in an orderly fashion. So my BR was at $80 odd two days ago I played a $20 DoN which I lost. Dumb I know then my BR was about $64.
3 days wasted into the op despite the best of motives, I've done it again and donked 4 buyins away now I'm at $64. Well I need to get out of this stupid stake. So I reverted to my old ways and bought into a $60 10-man SNG, with the last of my bankroll. I end up winning it, obviously extremely lucky to do so. This brings my BR to $250, this was two days ago. Obv didn't mention this a couple of days ago as I knew people would be dissapointed, infuriated, or a combination of both. Then I start playing 5NL go on a massive cooler as I posted yesterday and am down $40. That's when I decided to play the 20 DoN. With the real intention of dropping down to 10 if I lost. I played 6 and won four which brought the BR back to $249.
I want to make money at this game but at the moment I don't know if I will ever develop the discipline to do so. Realising that's the only way to make money at the game I'm not too sure If It will be possible for me to be a winning player.
I don't enjoy being the laughing stock of the FTR blog forums. Becoming a winning poker player is the hardest thing I've ever tried to do in my life. I've studied A-levels before, I've studied English Lit. at degree BA level. I've setup computer networks for embassies in London and I've tried to become a pro snooker player (although I was never anywhere near good enough, but I tried) travelling hundreds of miles for the best coaching in the world when I was in my late teens. All of these are nothing compared to how hard I find it to become a winning poker player. Yet the income that the high stakes winning players on FTR generate is was constantly drives me to do it. I desire a better life for myself and if I was a winning poker player, I would have that better life. That is why I keep trying, even though I find it virutally impossible to follow a sound BR strategy once I've had a couple of big losing sessions.
I had arranged with JGB to pay for the GS scholarship next week (this was the date setup for payment weeks ago when we set it up) - because that is when I am getting payed some money owed to me by a company I did some work for. Now I've got $249 in PS I'm going to pay him out of that, which will leave me with $199 in my BR. The highest it's ever been.
In terms of my game I am not sure where I should be playing or where I go from here. My BR is the biggest it's ever been and I'm rolled for 10NL now. But I think I should probabally grind 5NL but I'm not sure how long for. I've worked hard to becoming a winning player but am not sure if I will ever be able to overcome my poor discipline.
It does worry me that I may never master the discipline needed to develop into a winning player. There's nothing I want more at the moment than to become a winning player.
Slev, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a recreational player. That is what you are, because that is how you play, and there's nothing wrong with that. You are gambling. It took me over 3 months to do what you did TWICE in just over a week. You didn't do that by following BRM, you gambled, and that's OK. Just be honest with yourself. The world doesn't need another pro poker player. But if eventually going pro is what you want, master one game at a time, play within your roll, and maintain your discipline. GL.
Nibbles thanks for your reply it was really useful and gave me the sense of perspective I'd lost, cheers man.
Ok Slev, I'll try to give you my opinion on a constructive basis. Bsically, I think you've identified the problem is in your head and you know there's no point in trying to succeed in this Op if your not gong to commit to it fully and embrace everything about the grind. You have to just enjoy playing the game whether that is being coolered, being owned or pwning another player because it's all part and parcel of this game we love. If you don't love playing the game and it's all about the cash then I would give up now but if you do really enjoy the game and want to become better you have to put the hours in on the tables and grind your ass off.
I know what it's like when your losing a lot and you feel the need to earn it all back as quicly as possible but it doesn't all come back in an instant unless you are extremely foolish with your BR and get very lucky. Whenever you're feeling the effects of a losing day just remind yourself that you're playing a game and that losing is just as important as winning when you're trying to progress as a player and if your ego is getting in the way then close the client down and forget about poker for a while. Hope this helps man. I don't want to give up on you yet as I think you do understand how to succeed it's just a matter of putting it into practise!
Thanks connect
My focus going forward now is just to enjoy the game, I lost something of the enjoyment from the game these past few months.
I'm just going to enjoy playing in future whatever I play that's the main thing I think. :cool:
Slevin, I wish you all the best, but I can't stand to hear any more of your poker train wrecks. I'm gonna have to stop contributing to your threads. No offense, but these threads just make me hate life.
I sincerely hope you fix what's broke with Slev the person and Slev the poker player. Viya con Dios, sir.
theres nothing wrong with slev the person mate but cheers good luck in your op too, thanks
I think this tone is productive.
Try to search around a bit for notes on people who have gone pro and how they have reacted to that emotionally. Amusingly it's quite a scary set of stories. There's the story of the air traffic controller (reputed to be the most stressful job there is) who went poker pro and went back to air traffic controlling after a year as a pro, because he couldn't handle the stress of being a poker pro.
The point is, once the money you are playing for when you are playing poker is a real amount to you it becomes so much more stressful and it puts you on all kinds of tilt. It's probably fair to say that the gambling aside (and I think more and more that it really is an aside) your problem is that you want too much out of poker too soon. You want to be a winning player and the way you judge for yourself if you are a winning player is if your bankroll goes up. You have yourself in this thread quite recently exposed the logical fallacy therein, but what you also need to consider is the tilt trigger that it is.
Poker as a job seems to be the one of the most genuinely demanding jobs that do not have any short cuts. There is no relaxed day at the office and there is no bullshitting your way into a well played cushy job. I know the term is somewhat overused, but you need to consider your poker playing your poker education. And when you need 3-4 years or studying to get any kind of degree in any other field it should come as no surprise that it's similar in poker. Years and years of study. And by study I mean - when is the last time you feel that you learned something that improved your fundamental poker knowledge and skillset? Just playing isn't cutting it.
By thinking that you should be profitable NOW you are putting pressure on yourself that virtually guarantees that you will fail. This is not about your bankroll - it's not even about risk management. It's about managing your expectations and you have set yourself goals that come with a set of expectations that there is zero chance you would ever live up to. Congrats on shooting yourself in the foot.
I think the only monetary goal that is appropriate for poker right now is money you can earn through poker that will give you the tools to learn poker better. Money for training sites, books and coaching should come out of your poker bankroll. And then it doesn't matter if you are playing 2nl, 25nl or 200nl. It really doesn't. Or rather, you have to make sure that it doesn't, because if it matters YOU WILL TILT.
Good advice Erpel I'll take some of it on board, one things for sure I was putting too much pressure on myself to succeed. I feel better since reading nibbles and connects comments. At the end of the day it'd be nice to earn decent money from poker so I'll continue trying, If I fail another 100 times its no big deal, i'm enjoying the poker, I enjoy playing and I enjoy reading FTR that's what keeps me playing and that's the main thing I think, lifes too short to dwell on the past. So I'll just enjoy the present and look forward to the future.
Slev, you're a long way from earning decent money at poker. You've lost a lot of money playing poker.
But thats fine. If you learn.
It's not that hard. Just stop trying to GAMBLE, stop trying to run. you can barely walk.
They'll be no big epihany at 5nl, 10nl, 25nl....where you suddenly start raking in £k's.
it's really not that hard where you are. just stop fking about playing high limits and blowing bankrolls. end of. WTF is so hard????
this OP gets so much traffic cause you're a likable trainwreck. just wise up. F's sake.
Thanks mate that's great. I'm concentrating on 10NL from here on in, I'm also going to post my notes from videos I've watched at GS if any thing I say is wrong because I've misinterpreted it or something I'd appreciate it if someone speaks up and lets me know!
Notes from Spenda's video.
The three things I'm going to consider before entering a hand, is my position on the table, the strength of my hand and the tendencies of the opponent yet to act.
In terms of cards I'm playing, I'm going to be playing any pair, any suited ace, any off suit ace ten up, king-ten suited up, and king-jack off suit up, i'm also going to be playing 56(s)+ - I'll vary the number of these hands I include in my range depending on my position on the table.
I'm going to 3bet QQ+ and AK - and I'm going to fold AQ to a 3bet, I'm going to call a 3bet with QQ and re-raise preperared to get it all in with KK and AA. When I 3bet I'm going to 3bet 3 to 3.5 x in position and 4x out of position.
I'm going to play a wider range of hands in position than out of position.
If I have loose players on my left I'm going to shorten my raising range.
If I'm cbetting on the flop, I'm going to CBET about 80% of pot.
You're done slevin.
The sooner you quit, the less money you will loose. That's all I can say to you.
Over 700 posts, and you don't even understand the absolute fundamentals of the game... and you don't even need to understand, you just need to follow.
here's an idea why dont you take your bitterness and smarmy comments somewhere else? and get a life?
He's rightQuote:
Originally Posted by oskar
I'm done with this blog. Thanks everyone that's contributed to my development as a poker player and offered decent advice. I don't mind dealing with people that post negative ignorant comments, but when one of them is a mod I just give up. I'll be posting now and again in the main forums still of course. Especial thanks to Chardrian, Erpel, Dozer and Wilburforce for your comments and discussions! Cheers all, good luck at the tables!
The truth hurts I guess
Slev.
I've been behind you for as long as I can remember. This is hard for me to say, but: Grow the fuck up and quit blaming everyone else for your mistakes.
You either play poker to make money, and that means exercising bankroll management for no other reason than it's the right way to do it.
Or you play poker for fun, and that means putting whatever money you want up against either not drinking beer that week, or drinking more beer than normal.
You say you want to earn lots of money. But you're playing FOR the money, instead of playing for the love of the game, and the challenge of fleecing idiots. Play for the right reasons, be accountable for your own goddamn actions, and own your decisions! What do I mean by owning your decisions? The buck stops with you. "yes I made a mistake" Say that, say that and believe it.
I'm glad you're done with this thread, because I was getting scared I was going to have to give up on you too, something I wasn't prepared to do for a friend.
I'm not blaming anyone for anything to do with my poker as there's no blame to apportion. It just kind of gets under my skin when people like muzzard constantly post in threads with no other intention than to provoke a reaction. People like Oscar come out with nonsense like 'your done slevin just quit' and then to top it all off Jyms a mod chimes in not only condoning it but agreeing with him. I didn't expect much different following Jyms penultimate post in the thread but Is this really productive? No it isn't that's why I have decided to stop using this blog. It's really that simple. I'm all grown up and have broad shoulders it doesn't bother me too much, I just can't be bothered wasting my time on them. Muzzard has been a jerk from the getgo, I'm surprised at Jyms though I expected more, he sounded like a decent enough bloke in his videos. In terms of the financial goals you've mentioned I've kind of given up on all of them for now, my one goal is to enjoy playing poker. Poker lost its shine for me the past few months, and I'm going to try to find it again! Anyway thanks for your kind words at the end btw =) off to eat now, peace!
I actually wished you good luck, once it looked like you started to abide by BRM and actually play well. Then, ldo, it all went back to the old days.
I just don't really have any tollerance for ppl who make an OP and dont even follow basic BRM or don't listen to ppls advice consistently. What't the point of having an operation thread/goals - if your going to mess it up everytime by not abiding to BRM? None. If you want to gamble it up, go for it, I don't mind and I'm sure the whole of FTR doesn't either. But don't waste ppls time on this forum by tryin to convince yourself you are playing seriously when you just can't resist the 'gamble' in you.
I wish ppl spent the time in my blog as much as they do in yours trying to give you sound advice.
I spend time in your blog Muzz... :( lul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
Whether people follow proper bankroll management or listen to advice really shouldn't be your problem. If you want to give advice, give it. If you don't want to, don't. If someone doesn't want to listen to your advice, just shrug your shoulders and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
I'm a little annoyed by people coming to this thread and ranting about how much they hate this thread and how stupid they think the OP is. It's your choice to read or not to read. If you don't like what's in this thread, don't read it. Let the owner of this blog write what he wants to write and you can comment or give advice if you want to. What's the point in being insulting or getting angry?
Slevin,
Keep your chin up, man. As long as you don't consistently play outside of your roll, you'll be okay.
And even if you do play out of your league too often, If poker is fun, keep playing and play at the stakes that don't bore you. Don't feel guilty depositing new money, AS LONG AS YOU ARE HAVING FUN PLAYING (and as long as you aren't gambling with money you need to pay for beer or food or alimony or electricity or toilet paper or something important like that).
I check out your blog due to the hott chick in your avatar...also because you helped organize the HU Tourney.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
And I'm going to start playing at the 100NL tables...hopefully that'll increase traffic to my blog.
Sounds pretty solid imo!Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
@Slevin: If you find the recreational poker is more for you, more power to you. That's a +EV(life) move, if not necessarily the most +EV(poker). And when push comes to shove, life>poker. I wish you the best. (Just make sure to keep it recreational and not "gambler's anonymous" type fun. I've had friends go down the latter road, not fun.)
Thanks yeah that's basically where I'm at at the moment just playing whatever I like with the only criteria being that I enjoy it, I played in an $8 rebuy earlier today, hadn't really played any MTTs before I enjoyed it and was really surprised how loose people played there. I ended up buying in twice before the rebuy with the double stack as I got busted twice, and I also bought an addon at the rebuy period, both times I had to rebuy I was in front before the flop but flop wasn't kind! I ended up going out 200 odd out of 1200, with a 30k stack a little over average, went out when I hit part of the flop against someone I convinced myself didn't have a hand. I'm enjoying experimenting at the moment, all in all past couple of days I'm about even on the br front so it's not going too bad atm. I'm also just about to achieve silver star never managed that before, so that's quite exciting too !
Just ordered my books for the poker bonus I cleared a week or so ago, they're being shipped within the next few days by airmail - I chose:
Theory of poker
Harrington on Holdem Vol I
Inside the poker mind
Skalinsky on Poker
The Mathematics of Poker
I think this is the best value bonus I've cleared so far, looking forward to putting them to some good use when they arrive!
Played another rebuy earlier this time a $3 one, again pretty loose table (I can't beleive how bad these guys play) considering its 40k guaranteed. Got rivered a little after the first break, I had flush and had the maniac chip leader who I happened to have position on (nice touch ;) ) - call my all in on the turn. Then river paired the board and gave him a full house - very enjoyable though.
At the moment I'm doing fairly well in the double or nothings and that is carrying my mtt experimentation - next goal is to cash in an mtt! I'm also going to try to reach Goldstar by the end of the month, 1691 points to go, just for a fun challenge!
Just to let you guys know I had a lot of fun playing whatever I wanted (yes I know I have degen tendencies :( ). For about two days I played mostly $20 and $50 double or nothings and broke even, I then lost a few played some 100NL and was coolered, bankroll remaining was $11, although I do have 1700 fpp which I can also exchange for a $27 tourney ticket. I have decided now once and for all to do this properly I've had alot of fun with poker but now i'd like to make some money from it.
I'm going to play SNG tournements, starting with $1 SNGs and then moving up to the next stake in line. From playing the double or nothings which I played on Virgin poker, and also the recent ones on PS - I have discovered that I really love the challenge of bubble play, and picking which opponents to steal from, and this is why I've decided to jettison cash game for now and focus on SNGs. I have no money targets my one focus is that I'm going to play 1 thousand tournements at the current stake before I move up. So I'm about to start the first of my 1,000 $1 sng tournements.
If need be I can deposit more money next week (I know $11 is hardly rolled for $1 sngs's) BUT I commit to playing nothing but $1 SNGS for the next 1000 games I play.
The finite nature of the sngs should give me a concrete target (i.e. 1000 sngs) almost every person I repsect on these great boards is a winning player, and I would like to join that elite club, and think I am now ready to do so.
Dozers comment about my BR is the reason I still have $11 left, I read it as I was about to post this update and enter a $10 SNG, which I cancelled and that's why I have at least some small bankroll left.
I don't expect you guys to believe me when I say I'm going to play nothing but 1k of SNGs. I have to prove myself on that front. I've really enjoyed my past failed at attempts but have now realised and accepted that If I don't change my ways I am forever going to be a donk. A fish in the poker tank, a tragedy because unlike so many other players out there trying to win, I have access to FTR and the quality instruction on what to do to win. Ragnars comment was true. I need to grow up. Grow up and start doing the right things with my poker.
Here's to the next 1k of sngs being good.
Thanks all, FTR is a source of great entertainment and joy now in my life, I wish you all great luck at the tables! I really love the site. One day I will start earning money at this game. Hopefully it'll be sooner rather than later!