The Drive to $10K

Stop playing after 3 BI's lost in a night.
Stop playing after 1K hands if I am down or even.
Drop down if I have 2 multi BI losing sessions in a row, until I string together two multi BI sessions in a row.
Plan to take off some nights in the week.
Play less hands.

Just stressing these to you!

I just read through most of the thread. Remember your original rules to keep yourself in check on a downswing! And remember, there is always tomorrow.

EDIT Nevermind I didn't read through most of the thread, I didn't even see the 2nd page. I'll read it later on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CBAT

Stop playing after 3 BI's lost in a night.

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Giving up too easy given the variance of online 6 max. 5 buy-ins is a more reasonable stop-loss. That said, I'll quit a table or opponent after two or three to protect against getting owned, pushing a bad table image or cheaters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CBAT

Stop playing after 1K hands if I am down or even.

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When you have position on a live one, stay until he's broke or you're tired.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CBAT

Stop playing after 3 BI's lost in a night.

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Giving up too easy given the variance of online 6 max. 5 buy-ins is a more reasonable stop-loss. That said, I'll quit a table or opponent after two or three to protect against getting owned, pushing a bad table image or cheaters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CBAT

Stop playing after 1K hands if I am down or even.

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When you have position on a live one, stay until he's broke or you're tired.

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I'm just quoting his OP :D

But I do agree with you on both accounts.

I agree too and those reasons for stopping were because I was having other issues that were trumping good reasons for playing. My mindset was off, and i was not playing as well as I would like to have thought i was. It was more of a way to recognize my tilt and not find excuses to play at a higher stake or for longer than I was capable.

Yeah, it takes self awareness, otherwise safer to have an ironclad rule. If you're down 2-3 and feel good then maybe its ok to stay, but if you're tilting, or know from experience that you really cant make that call in the heat of the moment, just quit. I probably cost myself 2 buyins yesterday convincing myself I was ok when I wasnt.

Ok, so I seemed to have found a ton of mental problems and am actively relearning some things that were kind of unlearned by emotional situations I let gain control of my game. Long story short, I am relearning how to look at poker and my game. Thanks to a few Stox Vids while riding the bike at the gym I have put in more hours at cardio and more hours studying. Unfortunately my game still sucks. I ran horrible over the last 5K hands and have not adjusted my play. In typical fashion I have gone into calling station mode a little and am seeing far too many showdowns when running bad. Here's a few stats.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1259/1007828466.jpg

Positional stats
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4656/11iv87815891.jpg

PP's, jsut to show that it's not all me.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/876/17803420.jpg

Not a single stack earned with AA, KK or QQ. I am running horrible at sets too. It has caused me to be impatient and showdown far too often, and I know this so this must be fixed.

I still need to work on a couple things to make them habits. I have to stop playing OOP so often, I have to get my aggression up buy calling less, not betting more and I need to stop calling 3bet/raises as often. I just have to accept that I can fold the best hand once in a while and it will still be a profitable game.

With my RB and $10/1000 points bonus's I barely am rolled for $50NL so if I can't put together a session tonight with some decent stats then I will drop till I have my play adjusted. I don't care about winnings as much as a few obvious stats. If I catch myself doing any of the things I mentioned I will be done at $50NL for the next 10K hands or so.

Update coming after 1K hands.

stop it

if you want a sweat you know I'm always online

Two things I found made poker seem SOOO much easier:

1) Very very rarely play OOP.

2) Very very rarely call a 3-bet.


If you dont put yourself into shitty spots, poker becomes a lot easier. I know you just said that, and I know everyone says it, but they really are spots that are hard to stop getting into if you're not used to it. I guess I'm just reinforcing that these two things really are important to work on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

stop it

if you want a sweat you know I'm always online

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this and me too

I want to hear about your physical impairments when you sit at a table...

Most of my issues stem from two things, and both are kinda self inflicted which leaves me not much room to complain. One comes from being far too overweight the last 4-5 years. I have abused the hell out of my body by trying to maintain my level of sports activities (Ice Hockey, golf and baseball) in lieu of being 280 instead of 235 and now have issues with several joints, including both knees, ankles, right hip and even seem to have shoulder issues still even though it's been surgically repaired twice. Not much problem when playing poker, but it had effected my reasoning for getting off my ass and going to the gym to get into shape which in itself would help, particularly with problem two.

Number two, I don't sleep enough. I never really have and it's not that I can't I have just always hated going to sleep and as of the last few years and this last 2 years more than most, I don't sleep nearly enough for what I need. One of the things that has become problematic for me is I can play as much poker as I want, but I fully want to be and am expected to be a father and husband first. So not unlike most of the guys here in my spot poker becomes something to be done when there is time. I like to play a lot so I play at night when the kid is asleep and either the wife is in bed or is watching some bad television. She does like shows like American idol and other reality crap plus several TV series. What this may have done when combined with no exercise in the last year is produce a brain fog effect that I actually am having looked at soon. My memory is shot, my eye site has gotten worse (blurry) and I have huge bouts of non focus. These are not old things either this is all fairly new. Things like leaving the house to go to the store on the corner to get a few things and actually forgetting something in my list of 3 and having to go back. Like driving to my sisters for dinner on Saturday afternoon and getting off the highway 5 minutes in to the drive at my work exit and pulling into the parking lot with my kid in the car. Reading articles/poohbah posts on poker either here or the other forum and having to start over half way through because I don't even remember what I am reading.

The body aches and pains I will deal with, since I know what caused it, or that it's just remnants of previous injury/repetitive use that will not be aggravated but needs strength training or flexibility. the brain stuff will be getting looked at by a Naturapath. Until now my basic prescription for all of this has been Rockstar energy drinks, Tylenol and just not pushing the body. I quit hockey and baseball last year and hadn't been to the gym in years as mentioned before. I am changing all that by getting back into the gym which will be number 1 in fixing this, and i really do need to start sleeping more. Maybe I should do a sleep OP. I will be having a non prescription pushing medical person look into my memory/sight issues, but suspect sleep would help a ton.

FWIW, nobody has said playing 50K hands a month predominantly after 10PM with a full time job would be easy and I have done everything in my power to make it as difficult as possible.

Oh yea, by the way if my weight is ever higher than my BR I quit. Right now I'm down to 268 (Sunday) and have almost double that. Better keep up with the gym.

Keep up with the gym and don't forget most of your results come from the kitchen!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Number two, I don't sleep enough. I never really have and it's not that I can't I have just always hated going to sleep and as of the last few years and this last 2 years more than most, I don't sleep nearly enough for what I need. One of the things that has become problematic for me is I can play as much poker as I want, but I fully want to be and am expected to be a father and husband first. So not unlike most of the guys here in my spot poker becomes something to be done when there is time. I like to play a lot so I play at night when the kid is asleep and either the wife is in bed or is watching some bad television. She does like shows like American idol and other reality crap plus several TV series.
FWIW, nobody has said playing 50K hands a month predominantly after 10PM with a full time job would be easy and I have done everything in my power to make it as difficult as possible.

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I can empathise with this totally. Being at the cash learner end of the spectrum , I'm trying to study and play as much as possible. Add in wife and child and a 7 days a week job, I'm finding that i'm tired in the daytime and seem to wake up at night when my wife has gone to bed.
As far as Spenda and goats offer to sweat you , take it up, having done two sessions with Erpel,him watching me and me watching him I'm hoping that it will change they way I play, time will tell. My lack of experience is my problem at the moment.In your case they will spot what you are doing wrong , which if the roles were reversed and say you were coaching me and I was playing the same way as you , No doubt you would instantly spot it in my play , whereas for yourself , you have other issues which are all compounding together so that you are having trouble focussing in on one thing and possibly trying to change too much at once, playing scared money trying to stop the downslide .

How did I miss this thread? Just read it in full, it's inspiring to see other people struggling with tilt/discipline issues, it's also valuable to see alot of the advice in the thread, including your own observations and comments about your game.

I think you need to find some way of unattaching yourself from your profits during a session. From looking at your thread you tilt the most when you lose some buy in or two that you've just won, so I think you're attaching too much significance to the buy ins when you win them. I have a similiar issue (albeit at much smaller stakes) and that's what I discovered which seems to be the key for me, that I was attaching myself to the gains so that when I lost them, I felt emotionally robbed - down, and this induced tilt - or in my case, even worse than your tilt - gambling with half my bankroll. I think if you can find some way to disassociate from the winnings when you win them, you'll have cracked 90% of your tilt issue.

Nice one about the gym - I keep meaning to get down there myself, good luck with the weight loss as well, I've found in the past that diet is definately more important than excercise. In the past i've used an effective diet (we're a simmiliar weight) which was based around eating either meat and no carbs in one day, or carbs and no meat, the good thing was as long as you stick to the food groups you can eat as much of most of the food as you like, there's no restrictions, and there's alot of food to chose from. It worked well and whenever I stuck to it I lost 3ibs almost every week and that was without excercise! If you're interested just let me know and I'll send you a link to the site (It's a uk diet programme).

When you wrote your BR targets at work I think that was useful and something you should focus on. No rush, with just 3bb/100 I was amazed when I did this the other day for myself just how much growth the bankroll will show after a year, it's like one of those desk toys with the balls on a string isn't it, the first part takes some energy (or in poker terms, damn hard work that probes every area of your psyche!) to get the bankroll moving, but before long (a year or so) the momentum will take care of the rest. Just go to be careful, patient and disciplined in the first part while building the momentum.

Good luck Jyms - rooting for you like everyone else to get things sorted on the table and looking forward to seeing the inevitable regular up monthly graphs when you've sorted things.

you were doing so good at the lower levels -- why not back down to them for a bit?

He has. One thing about Jyms, he follows proper BRM. Thats why he's still around when others who have had similar roller coaster rides have come and gone.

Definately will beat it, sounds positive so far as far as the mental stuff goes. I'd really love to catch you sometime to chat about stuff, shoot me an msn when you have some spare time.

I found that my biggest downswing happened because I was playing too much. I took a couple of weeks off (took a vacation no computer) and came back strong. It's hard to do because we love this game but sometimes I believe it needs to be done. My 2 cents.

Update:

I let the blog slip and same with poker for the week or two. We gave notice at our place and we are moving May 1, so I have been looking for a condo downtown. I think we have a handle on that and have a few to choose from now so that chapter is close to being complete. I have also been trying to get in as much gym time as possible. 258lbs@30% at the moment and easily reaching the goal.

As for poker,meh. I have taken two shots a little underrolled figuring that 14 or 15 BI's will be enough since I have been a winner at these stakes in the past but keep having horrible runs when doing so. Sessions ending up with WTSD% at 21-22% and WSD% in the mid 30%'s several times.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/160/11iv8.jpg

I have had no issues with my usual tilt problems and seem to be playing much smarter after a few conversations with Griffey, Spenda and BJ. I am still up for a ton of convo's on AIM and MSN so if you guys get bored hit me up.

BR sucks, but I have no immediate plans to withdraw since my Income Tax will be covering all my deposits and moving truck so that saves the stress about the roll. I am going to hit up the $20NL tables for another couple days before taking another run at $50NL.

Back to back 5BI sessions at $20NL and $50NL the last two nights. That and a bit of RB can't really hurt right? Update again tonight.

Nice, just keep playing your game and keeping your head right!

nice jyms. you'll be back up at 1/2 in no time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Back to back 5BI sessions at $20NL and $50NL the last two nights. That and a bit of RB can't really hurt right? Update again tonight.

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weeeee! keep it up big boy!

Good job, Jyms. I totally get the physical side of things, with a body and brain that won't work quite as well as they used to. I am also trying to lose some weight and finding it difficult. Glad to see poker things are looking up. Good luck with the move and keeping the positive run going.

FUCK OFF IPOKER


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4458/12293241.jpg

OMG....

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($55.25)
BB ($50)
UTG ($53.17)
UTG+1 ($103)
Hero ($49.25)
BTN ($49.75)

Dealt to Hero A:spade:A:diamond:

UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $6.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls $4,

FLOP ($14.25) T:club:9:club:6:heart:

check, Hero bets $9.50, UTG+1 raises to $19, Hero raises to $42.75 (AI), UTG+1 calls $23.75,

TURN ($99.75) T:club:9:club:6:heart:2:spade:

RIVER ($99.75) T:club:9:club:6:heart:2:spade:3:club:

UTG+1 shows 6:diamond:3:heart:
(Flop 19.2%, Turn 11.4%)

Hero shows A:spade:A:diamond:
(Flop 80.8%, Turn 88.6%)

UTG+1 wins $96.75

:(

suckkkks man...death runs end.. I promise!

Holy crap Jyms. Its gonna get better soon, try not to go insane until then. Hit me up via aim anytime u want to talk.

Cross posting from the monthly stats thread. Update tonight and I will set some goals.

Quote:

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-$747 so I basically lost all my RB, rakerace and bonus money I earned over January.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2125/11135487.jpg

For the record, I play more hands while losing more money than any regular on this site. I have had my fourth losing month in a row. And I don't think my game is that bad.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6738/11105389.jpg

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seek help

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhh

jyms: I'm not going to try and tell you what to do, I'm just making a suggestion since I'm not sure if you've thought about this or not. Please do with it as you will, and feel free to ignore it altogether. Keep in mind that I'm just trying to help, and I don't mean to come off sounding like a parent or anything.

My suggestion is you cash out everything left you have online, deposit $50 on pokerstars or whatever other sites host $2nl games, and regrind. It may sound painful, it may sound gross, but I think it is a great method to slowly help regain the confidence to play your optimal game 100% of the time. You'll be able to crush the microstakes and remember what its like to win again, then you'll move to the next level, and keep repeating the process till you surpass the limits you now play. In fact, it won't even take that long, if you can get the volume in.

Just ask yourself what's better; being only + a couple hundred dollars for a month grinding microstakes or being stuck at a higher stake?

In the end I imagine you'll do what you want, so I don't expect you to regrind from nearly nothing as this may sound silly since you once did really well playing bigger games.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you get things sorted out.

Do you think it benefits you to know that you were +EV all in but lost money due to variance?

It is important to know that you are making the "correct" plays. But that can be accomplished via single hand reviews. This would avoid knowing how much money you SHOULD have won. Not having XXX number stuck in your head may help you control your emotions.

Good luck man,

!luck

M2M, for what it's worth, I pretty much have done just that. I have already moved my BR to Stars for the time being( I've been killing $25NL for 3 whole days). I have decided to forgo the rakeraces, rakeback and bonus's and re-grind the roll. After losing what amount's to $11K in 4 months, that doesn't really leave any to withdraw and start again. I'm gonna play the small stakes games and make sure to be a winner again. Getting in the hands is never a problem and I don't think I have much to worry about as far as gaining it back. Hell I had a $200 BR last January too after playing for a living and pulling out everything to start again last year when I went back to work. I am a little tired of starting again though.

So this is where I am at, I am playing on Stars, I am 4 tabling, no more no less. I have no RB, no bonus and so no need to grind the hell out of the games. I need to find the problems in my game outside of the tilt issues because I think I have put most of those behind me. I practice my anti tilt exercises, I go to the gym regularly (last week and this week were tough because of the condo search) and I sleep more now. I know I have 3 problems to fix that cause me to bleed money. 1) I call too much from the blinds because I know I can outplay bad players postflop, but I am not outplaying them when playing with scared money OOP and with marginal reverse implied hands. 2) I C/C too much, I need to focus on this, because this is one of those auto pilot leaks I have where I just start trying to get to showdown and not think about ranges and textures. 3) I call way too many 3 bets. Calling with marginal hands that are ahead of a 3bet range is no way to see a flop. I need to 4bet or fold way more. I am sure I have others , but these are the ones I am aware of that I still do month after month.

So let's see how things go, I'm giving myself this year to become a winning $200NL player or higher. After that I am throwing in the towel and finding a new hobby since that would just be about enough. I do think I have it in me to grind a $500 BR into $5K+ for a third time so it's time to take the next step.

Heres a note: I havnt seen you post a hand for comment yet.

Yea this thread started out as a tilt solving thread and really never moved into the strat thread it may need to be. I have never posted many hands on FTR as much as I send them to people on AIM and MSN. I prefer the real time conversation about HH's. I will be posting some in the future for sure. I have actually been thinking about doing a couple vids actually. I think voicing some thoughts out loud while playing about some of the basic parts of the game would do me some good, and maybe stop some of the FPS that likes to creep into those longer sessions.

Definately do some vids. I found it really interesting. Often just watching them back by yourself you find things you didnt realise at the time. If you dont want to post them (and tbh I wouldnt) just send a few of us links, I'm happy to watch any you make.

I'm a little like you. I send HHs to people via msn/aim a LOT more than I post, but I do find it useful to post some also. Its interesting to get the broader view.

I was just about to write "you should make some videos" but looks like you already have that idea planned. I think it will do nothing but help your game. I know you probably have enough live feedback on HH but posting shouldn't hurt and we can all kind of give detailed posts and give each other feedback on and figuring out why a line is better than another. Keep your chin up. I'm rooting hard as hell for you.

GL Jyms, I am going to follow this post, as I have been enjoying your videos over as GS. If you ever take Spenda up on that sweat, I would love to sit in and spectate, I am sure I could learn a ton.

Good luck on Stars.

fuck you suck

at least you play

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

FUCK OFF IPOKER

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Since moving to stars on the 28thhttp://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3826/37291632.jpg

sweet. keep it going, man. You'll get that mojo back.

Ok, here was a couple tough ones from last night

Opp is 48/24/6.0 only 26 hands but has 3bet three times in that span as well from the blinds.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) -

BB ($14.70)
UTG ($21.55)
MP ($73.25)
CO ($40.20)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, MP bets $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.25, 2 folds, MP calls $2.50

Flop: ($6.85) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4, MP raises to $9.50, Hero calls $5.50

Turn: ($25.85) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP bets $13.75, Hero calls $12.25 (All-In)

River: ($50.35) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)


Total pot: $50.35 | Rake: $2.45

_________________________________________

Opp is 93/64/1.4 in only 16 hands. Do you squeeze a smaller turn or hope he calls with less? I'm ahead always here, but should I be patient and try to get two more streets or is the shove OK?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) -

MP ($32.25)
Button ($40.45)
SB ($43.40)
Hero (BB) ($25)
UTG ($24.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG bets $1.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($2.60) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, Hero raises to $6.50, UTG calls $4.50

Turn: ($15.60) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $17.25 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $15.60 | Rake: $0.75

________________________________________________

Opp is 41/21/2.0 over only 29. Too nitty?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) -

CO ($20.80)
Hero (Button) ($25.60)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($2.70)
UTG ($25)
MP ($31.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, CO bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets $2, Hero calls $2, 1 fold

Turn: ($6.35) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
CO bets $18.05 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $6.35 | Rake: $0.30

_______________________________________________


Opp is 30/10/0.3 over only 22 hands so basically not much to go on. I hit the miracle after two barrelling a hope and prayer. Am I supposed to fire this turn harder and set up the river. Not sure he can fold two but maybe three. Once the river hits would a shove be a better play than trying to get some value?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) -
SB ($23.65)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.10)
Hero (MP) ($25)
Button ($25.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.25) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, SB calls $1.75

Turn: ($5.75) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.75, SB calls $3.75

River: ($13.25) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9.50, SB calls $9.50

Total pot: $32.25 | Rake: $1.55

you just constantly bet the wrong streets on the wrong cards

is there merit in you outlining your thought process in each of the decisions in each of the hands?

hand 1 - pre-flop is fine but i prefer to flat JJ here and 3-bet Axs. Flop check behind

hand 2 - 16 hands i'm sometimes 90-60 in full ring, and i'm a nit... pre-flop is fine, but so is folding. Flop is cool enough, but why not check the turn? (check call obviously). What's his range, what's his calling range?

hand 3 - QJo flat = reason? standard part of your game vs loose aggro types? what is the plan? to bet Q/J high flops? or? if so, why not raise flop? as played, fold turn

hand 4 - turn free card never once board pairs?

Hand 1 - big 3bet IP? I don't mind it if he's a big whale though and gonna call the same range. I check back flop though.. board is really dry.

Hand 2 - I don't mind a turn check here... only pot size bet left anyhow. Jamming is ok too I suppose.

Hand 3 - gross... yah I guess fold

Hand 4 - Bad double barrel card for sure.

checking in on ya jyms. Good luck!

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1061/15341802.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4840/15356215.jpg

BR = $150

Since I cant beat the game again this month and obviously am unable to change my ways, I'm out.

Taking a break.

Hmm, man I think you know what I'd say but you're taking a break which is probably the best thing. I'll try to catch you on msn for a chat soon.

crikey Jyms . Is this still the same tilt issue ?
whilst you're on your break , have you tried replaying some of your grinder videos ,turn the sound off record the "session" and play the video and pause at each stage your action is due and say what your play would be and why. At the end of the session replay the videos hand for hand and see if theres a difference in the way that you are playing/thinking now compared to the way you were playing.

I will bet you $100 that if you show me a 5k hand sample with your fold to 3bet % > 67%, that you will be in the green.

$100... let's go. If you're not in the green, I pay you $100.. if you're in the green.. you pay me $100. sounds like either way.. you're winning to me.

Alright.. the bet is on.. gooood luck!

Hope you have that $100 ready, cause I am almost there.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/112/15220165.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8831/15064472.jpg

The $100 question.... does light green count!?

I'm thinking you gotta start running better and get those winnings up, but lookin good so far!

I think folding to 3bets in general just gets you in "folding mode" where it's contagious and you start making better folds post-flop too in diff spots.

what happened around the 1550 hand mark Jyms? looks like a 16$ bad beat or was it several hands close together?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($57.23)
CO ($19.97)
Hero (Button) ($43)
SB ($33.56)
BB ($20)
UTG ($21.51)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
UTG bets $0.80, 2 folds, Hero raises $2.60, 2 folds, UTG raises $7.20, Hero raises $40.40 (All-In), UTG calls $13.51 (All-In)

Flop: ($43.32) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($43.32) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($43.32) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $43.32

Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
UTG had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (flush, King high).
Outcome: UTG won $42.32

At least ur red line breaks even, thats something i cant do

I've seen guys that kill the games playing either way at higher stakes, red line up or down. I don't even worry about it. I do know how to manipulate the line but I think in the passive micros it's better to be less aggro and just get paid more by made hands at showdown than trying to take away a ton of pots in non showdown style. Bet/fold will make that line stay up. any time your calling bets or Checking OOP with the intention of maybe folding later streets will destroy that line.

ouch .....could have been worse , you could have been up against the stack that covered you .

Well the only way for me to win this bet and not lose my roll was to run horribly under EV or just blow away the games and win more than enough to pay you. Knowing that if I fold to all the 3bets I will easily beat the games means I am taking the bet just to force myself to start folding vs these brutal players

I actually 4bet/folded to every 3bet and only called one or two. The other calls are actually calling all ins by short stacks which I never knew counted as calling in the stats even though I had JJ+ .


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8741/15709966.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8378/15748822.jpg

Brutal end to a good night and good week

keep it up Jyms

Lol, for a second there I thought you meant you 4-bet every time you got 3bet and then folded to shoves :p

Edit brainfart

hmmm stupid EV!... I guess I owe you a 100 big one's? :)

I'd make this bet again... with a clause that the $100 win or loss can't make you go from the red to green.. or vice versa! (like it will here ;) )

Lol DG, I thought you were joking.

Can I get a WOOOOT WOOOOOT

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8606/13178307.jpg



Props to griffey. All $20NL.

Indeed you can!

Woot!!

woot woot!

FUCK YEAH JYMS!

Holla!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

well done Jyms, even more impressive is that the first 4k hand were more or less break even. Any particular reason you can think of for the tunaround? did you start doing anything differently or does anything show up in your stats as different between the gloom and doom and the recovery.?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

well done Jyms, even more impressive is that the first 4k hand were more or less break even. Any particular reason you can think of for the tunaround? did you start doing anything differently or does anything show up in your stats as different between the gloom and doom and the recovery.?

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It is mostly about the folding. When I was running well at $200NL I was being aggressive but careful. For some reason I lost the ability to control pots and get out of the way when I was in marginal situations and the pots were getting big. As I had to move down and the tilt monster was rearing it's ugly head I started calling way too much. 3bets preflop, were one of my biggest problems and thinking I could make up for lack of position against bad players with marginal holdings.

Griffey helped me realize I had to fold and fold a lot. The biggest thing is when your aggressive and bet in a lot of spots people won't play back with nothing at the low/micro stakes. It seems like they do because they start showing up with weak hands when your bluffing/two barrel semi bluffing but they aren't. They just play back lighter. I stopped calling 3bets and only folded/4bet. I stopped calling so much OOP with marginal hands that actually are great hands to play but require position. And lastly I just started to fold more. Think Bet/fold, and I try to figure out which hands need bets and which need to get to showdown. Robotic Cbetting is a tough spew to stop.

The other thing I needed to watch is at $100NL and $200NL even sometimes at $50NL you have to play your hands aggressively and FE is key to the actual equity you calculate. At most of $50NL and definitely $25NL and under there really is no FE. C/R strong 9-12 out draws and getting it in against guys calling with TPNK is not good profitable poker. I overvalue FE at the lower stakes.

TL:DR... Fold pre to 3bets, don't play OOP and Bet/fold on turn/rivers. There is no FE at the micro stakes. VBVBVB. Don't be tricky, just bet near pot with monsters. These guys have decided to call or fold before they see you bet so control the pot or balloon the pot as needed.

Folding is something I really need to get my head around as well. I've spewed off plenty to river bets thinking the fish can't have anything and there seems to be a lot of talk about bet folding being better than check calling in the Beginners circle lately. I tried that but seemed to spew just as much .Hopefully experience and time will get me better at choosing which the best option is between check folding , check calling and bet folding in different situations.

SHIPPPPPPP JYMS!.. this is just the beginning!

jyms, most 200nl players play their hands pretty straightforwardly too. not many are bluff raising beyond the usual spots.

also i think you should be posting hands, i know you think blah small stakes but if you aint looking at hands then your gonna be playin catch up when you hit 100nl. players are getting slightly better each day

http://data.boomerang.nl/g/grafisch-...nice-borat.JPG

nice to see you're doing good again!! sweet graph

woot woot! Go Jyms!!!
nice to see that graph going skyhigh, keep it climbing baby.

woot woot. Folding is the nuts. Folding the nuts isn't.

Now post some hands.
Even if it's as basic as 5 biggest winning and losing hands per week...

nice graph jyms and great work on patching up leaks.

Folding rocks. I definately think its playing a part in my recent results as well.

Griffey rocks, he keeps telling us to fold!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Folding rocks. I definately think its playing a part in my recent results as well.

Griffey rocks, he keeps telling us to fold!

---

Do as he says, not as he does:p

I spend my days telling Griffey to fold !!!

Btw goood stuff Jyms, keep it going

We've never really spoken or anything...but I'm glad you pulled through.

I've been keeping up with your blog and kind of saw you as a role model of sorts. And now that you pulled through an extraordinary amount of tilt and got your head straight again...you probably rank higher in my FTR "role models" now. It takes a great poker player to not quit...and I'm glad to see you didn't.

Good work bro!

Yeah, I was going to comment on his spewmonkey ways, but figured I'd let him bask in his moment since he helped Jyms so much :).

Interesting on the folding thing, I just posted in my op how the most exploitable thing I've found with Everest regs is their propensity to stackoff with TP type hands on drawy boards, they're just way too quick to assume a raise is a semi-bluff. People not folding is the theme of the day!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexos

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Folding rocks. I definately think its playing a part in my recent results as well.

Griffey rocks, he keeps telling us to fold!

---

Do as he says, not as he does:p

I spend my days telling Griffey to fold !!!

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lol this is very true... I guess this puts you at the top of the "folding pyramid"? Who tells youuuuu to fold??

I'm sure everyone has read this at some point, but it really gets you into the groove of folding:
http://tommyangelo.com/articles/folding.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jyms

The other thing I needed to watch is at $100NL and $200NL even sometimes at $50NL you have to play your hands aggressively and FE is key to the actual equity you calculate. At most of $50NL and definitely $25NL and under there really is no FE. C/R strong 9-12 out draws and getting it in against guys calling with TPNK is not good profitable poker. I overvalue FE at the lower stakes.

TL:DR... Fold pre to 3bets, don't play OOP and Bet/fold on turn/rivers. There is no FE at the micro stakes. VBVBVB. Don't be tricky, just bet near pot with monsters. These guys have decided to call or fold before they see you bet so control the pot or balloon the pot as needed.

---

0.05/10 people at the micros actually know what is fold equity.
Therefore we use fold equity 0.05/10 times at the micros.

So took small shot at $50NL and here is the results

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6972/18144226.jpg

EV reared it's head even though I still killed them for 20BB/100

here's how the month is shaping up. At the bottom is my Prop with Griffey, you can see how the EV's killed him

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5809/18357666.jpg

The EV line has come back to even, and I have finally started winning at Showdown whilst still winning non showdowns enough to turn profit. at the Bottom of this graph my BR hit a whopping $66. Now back to over $800 including the Prop with Griffey and I cleared some bonus. I am in a couple races for cash and have some Will HIll RB to come. Should be $1K plus by month end and $50NL will be the next target.

Couple from last night.

I posted results from this one because I think we're grown up enough to look at HH without allowing results to affect the thoughts.

First one, Villain is 37/7/2.6 over 300. Neither of these calls were quick. I don"t know if I bet too much or too little on the river I really don't think he had much of a draw. What hand limp calls pre and slowly calls 2 streets that I missed value from? AK? JJ? waiting for me to not fire?


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($89.97)
Button ($8.25)
SB ($40.47)
BB ($53.19)
UTG ($72.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG calls $0.50, Hero bets $2.25, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4, UTG calls $4

Turn: ($13.25) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $8.50, UTG calls $8.50

River: ($30.25) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $18.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $30.25

Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (flush, King high).
Outcome: Hero won $47.24

This one worked out exactly as I read it. 68/31/5.5 on very few hands. What hands call a 4bet and insta shoves flop. I figure he has AQ+,TT- QQ. I have outs vs JJ and QQ but both of those would probably think a bit before shoving. I have 6 outs at the least. I am flipping or ahead here more than half the time I think. Any thoughts.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($39.92)
Hero (BB) ($50.37)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($55.90)
CO ($91.25)
Button ($67.22)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, CO bets $1.75, Button calls $1.75, SB raises $2.75, Hero raises $12, 2 folds, SB calls $9.50

Flop: ($28.50) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $27.42 (All-In), Hero calls $27.42

Turn: ($83.34) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($83.34) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $83.34

Results:
SB had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (high card, Ace).
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won $80.34

Nice work on the month comeback! and good to see hand posted.

Hand 1: I like pre-flop and flop. Turn bet size could be bigger - i don't think this is a situation where his calling range for $8.5 varies from his calling range for $11 - and you're deep enough to need to get some decent bets in to stack. River I just bet $24 as played, similar reasoning. Against a more aggressive villain i bet $10 to try and induce.

Hand 2: I wouldn't have included AQ in his range, but results show that i'm wrong! Assuming TT+, AQs+ then you still win 1/3 so the call is fine if you can ever put other hands in his range. It's tight - but nh

It was too few hands to have any real read on what he calls 3bets with but I usually assume guys that 3bet/call 4bets have to have more than just TT JJ and QQ in their range. I was shocked to see AQo though. I only had AQs in his range. The call is close but if I give him AQs+ AKo and TT-QQ I have 41% so I have to call right? If he's stupid enough to call w/KK to see if an A flops (they do) then I still have just under 40%.

Hand 1 your right. It comes down to what I have told others. He's already decided what to do and my bet sizing changes nothing unless I do something super stupid like overbet/shove. I definitely allowed him to stay in a controlled pot and didn't allow him to make a huge mistake this deep.

I came into this thread to wish you a happy birthday, but stayed for discussion about folding... I should start doing that

Hand 2 NH. Guys a drooling idiot, just pretend you got it all in PF.

Hand 1 - turn and riv sizing is too small

Hand 2 - flop call is obv terrible, you aint flipping with 6 outs!! Since sb is such a donk if you feel he will call a 4bet then you should just shove preflop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

Hand 2 - flop call is obv terrible, you aint flipping with 6 outs!! Since sb is such a donk if you feel he will call a 4bet then you should just shove preflop.

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If he's the kind of player to flat a 4b with QQ+ then he's probably gonna check it on the flop (plus card removal effects), especially on such a dry board with only a psb left. Surely he has enough random bs hands in his range to call? We even have a backdoor straight draw and flush draw!!

I agree. I didn't think he'd call the 4bet. I thought he'd fold/shove. When he calls here what can we put him on. Probably calling it a flip was a mistake, but having him shove less than a PSB into me puts my 6 outs and backdoor draws far enough ahead. If he's got 5% drooler in him I am far enough into the EV to make this a snap, No?

having seen your graph for June Jyms you really ought to post it in here . Any future downswings and you can just look back and reflect and think " I got the shit kicked out of me and I fought back and conquered".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith_MM

having seen your graph for June Jyms you really ought to post it in here . Any future downswings and you can just look back and reflect and think " I got the shit kicked out of me and I fought back and conquered".

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yaaah +1

good job with the comeback dude, it's awesome!

Thinking about you man. Really cool graph :)