Slevin dude I feel you.
People laughed at me when I dropped back down to 2nl said it wouldn't teach me anything either!
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Slevin dude I feel you.
People laughed at me when I dropped back down to 2nl said it wouldn't teach me anything either!
Yep.. But Bbickes soared back through the stakes is now regging it up at 10nl. GG bbickes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbickes
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
FYP :roll:
Thank you for pointing those out. Maybe I am wrong in my advice. I have a lot to learn before I know as much as you stacks. I'll reread my statements and figure out why you disagree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
This was the response I was hoping for from you. The reason I didn't point out my reasonings for disagreeing in my initial post is because so many times you will state a differing opinion and the OP will just overlook it, and you wasted your time. But since you showed interest in hearing a different opinion, then I'm happy to explain. Just want to say this is of my opinion, and because of this is entitled to being wrong itself. So if anyone finds anything, don't hesitate to let the criticisms fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel
First concerning the two or so times you referred to poker as being a "lottery" or alot of luck. While there is a portion of luck involved with poker, it has been proven that skill plays a much larger part. Consistent winners are players that have the skills necessary to beat the games they play in. While luck may influence the outcome of a single hand, an entire session, or even several sessions lasting for a significant sample of hands, a player that has the skills to win will win in the long run, and the players that don't, will lose.
On the WAY too aggressive bit. I pointed this out because it's pretty much just a blanket statement and misleading, as I believe you are referring to in general (As indicative by your response about being too aggro without the nuts). While there are times when you should choose a passive live over an aggressive line, and vice versa, aggression is generally seen as a good thing in NLHE.
And concerning the "too aggro without the nuts" remark. You will rarely get the absolute nuts. This doesn't mean you can't be aggressive. The strength of your hand is based on numerous factors. The board texture, the previous actions, villain tendencies, etc... all play a major part in determining you hand strength. So if you are being aggressive in hopes of getting value from your hand you must consider all those factors. As we know against some players we hate felting hands like TPTK, but against others we are happy to get it all in. This is because we have done a range assessment and determined how our hand falls in relationship to our opponents percieved range.
As a side note on aggression, you aren't always going to be betting/raising when you feel you have the best hand. And it's okay to be aggressive when you feel you opponents are weak and are likely to fold. You don't have the nuts, but you have reads.
Concerning your 2.5xBB betsizing remark. As a general rule alot of players have a "standard" bet sizing they use for preflop. Generally this is between 3x-4xbb + 1bb per limper. This has shown great success in achieving the desired outcomes generally (limit the field, build the pot, etc). At 2nl, I highly advice that your preflop raising size should be larger than 2.5xbb. This is because most players at 2nl are passive calling stations. And it's because of this you should be playing a tighter range. Therefore, since you are playing a tighter range, and the players are willing to call with their inferior ranges, you should be betting more. I would subscribe to a 4xbb + 1bb per limper standard for now.
"Do people see you as an aggro player"?.. This was a little nit-picky of me, but generally microstakes players fail to observe their opponents in a meaningful manner. Sure, they might say someone is "LAGG" or "TAGG", but they rarely know how to put any of the information they pick up to good use (that is they adjust badly). Just wanted to point out that rarely should you be making moves based on your table image at the microstakes.
Concerning treating your stack like your Bankroll, and consequently having to win every game because you only have one shot. While I think you intended for this to come over as somewhat of a pep talk, I just wanted to point out that IMO I think this is a bad thought process. Your stack essentially isn't your Bankroll. It is a portion of your bankroll. If you treat every stack as if it's your bankroll, and act as if you can't afford to lose it, then you will be too busy "protecting your 'roll'", and you will pass up on +ev plays. Your goal isn't to win everytime, because this is essentially impossible. Your goal is to attempt to make a +ev decision every chance you get.
But in OP's case, his stack is essentially his role because it is such a significant portion of his BR. This is why BR management is sooooo incredibly huge. With a cushioned and proper BR you can afford to make a play that you know is +ev, but only very marginally. You can take the hit to your BR, and still play your A-game.
"This isn't the world series of poker, and players play horrible and reckless". While this is obviously a true statement, I just wanted to point out two quick things. First, the world series of poker is full of absolutely terrible players. And secondly, playing against "horrible and reckless" players is the best thing you can hope for, and sets up ideal situations. I mean if you had money on the line, and wanted to win that money, would you want to play chess against a chess master or your 3 year old brother? It's simple that you would want to play against the least skilled opponent. The same is true for poker. Just because those oppoenents at time get lucky doesn't mean they are invincible. Just think, if you were to play against a better opponent, not only would they be "getting lucky" with the same frequency, but they would be able to outplay you in nearly every other spot as well.
Not really going to touch on the poker theory remark, as I'm not 100% sure what you mean, and I'm not even close to 100% sure I could explain anything in a manner that would be coherent. But keep in mind, in every situation there is a "best" play. Sometimes it may be incredibly hard to identify the best play (as bet sizing, reads, ranges, history, etc all come into play), but it is there. So just because your opponents aren't playing perfectly, or even decently, doesn't mean you can't strive to make the best play at all times. That is strive to play an optimal strategy.
Me bolding the limit holdem remark is basically because I'm unsure whether this is true, but logically wouldn't think so. I have never played limit holdem for any significant amount of time, or studied it. However, I do believe the ranges are wider at limit holdem than at NLHE. And it's because of this your range should be looser at Limit holdem. In essence, limit holdem is a different game, and at this time with slevin lacking serious knowledge about NLHE, I think it would be bad for him to split his attention between learning two games.
Yeah, so I know I wrote alot. But it was either write this or do some homework, so it's obvious which I chose. I just want to point out, that I wasn't trying to flame you or anything of that nature. I just wasn't sure if stating my opinions in my initial response would be of any benefit to you or others. It still might not be, but who knows. You did offer alot of solid advice, and showed a very positive response to my "criticism".
Playing $10nl then................
to give you a quick idea AGAIN of why we need a bank roll.
I lost 3 buy-ins at $50nl yesterday.
1. I had KK, all-in pre against Q-Q, he flopped a Q
2. I had A-A, all-in pre again against Q-Q....he got a flush on river
3. I had 4-4, flopped a set, he flopped a higher set.
Point is I played them all correctly, but still lost 3 buy-ins. Has it busted me? No. I suck it in, re-load and carry on.
You're playing $10nl with about 3 &1/2 buy-ins when you can't even beat $2nl (because the players are sooo bad you can't beat them???).
This well end exactly where all your poker has ended so far. you may get on a heater and win enough to be rolled at $10nl, then you'll wanna play $25nl etc etc....seen it all before.
If you can't even take your own advice Slevin, you are lost. Patience is the key. If you try to force things to happen, you will fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
F the haters... take your full roll and buyin short for the highest stakes possible... LIVE LIFE!!!
anticipating the trainwreck.....
tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xianti
I'm taking a break for a few months from FTR. I'd just like to thank everyone that's offered advice over the last few months, it's really appreciated - and I mean that. Cheers, good luck all.
See you on the tables. If you ever come back just don't tell people your playing above your bankroll. Just lie and say you have a higher bankroll.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I also suggest lying and saying you understand concepts that you do not, and that you have a higher winrate, and better stats than your records show. By doing this it allows all information thrown your way to be incredible accurate and helps you learn the game better.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigteif
/sarcasm
Motherflippin' bigteif up in the hizzy! <3.
see you next monday
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
toushe
I don't think Poker is luck in the professional level. All poker pros are where they are because of consistent skill in implied analyzing, out-counting, and hand odds. The reason why I said what I said was because Slevin referred to 2NL as a lottery and 10NL as a stake he could beat. This bothered me a lot because that reasoning can cause huge devastation to his bankroll when he hits a cold deck. I can only crack his reasoning by giving him reasons why that reasoning is flawed. If 2NL is a lottery to him, 10NL is no different. I think I didn't explain this reasoning in my post, so it looked as if I was calling the whole game a gamble. To the non-professionals, yes. To the veterans, probability wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Sorry. Again this was only directed at Slevin. I sincerely think he plays overly aggressive, and I think that's one of his leaks. His opponents somehow are picking it up, or are too loose to know better. I think aggression is KEY in victory for NLHE, just like you. I don't think its something Slevin should do at the state he is in now. Out of the many hands I've read on Slevin's operations, he goes broke on a huge bet, raise, or call. I don't think a great poker player should just go broke just on these situations alone. I've gone broke several times from being short stacked and blinded off. Slevin was moderate-deep stack in most of his situations where he got stack jacked, and if you're losing consistently with a big stack--something is wrong. Low bets should cause the same intimidation from him as huge bets, because people generally don't want to mess with the large stack unless they have a good hand or are getting good implied odds (i'll raise with air connectors if they're trying to bully me). People are somehow picking this leak from Slevin.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I completely agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
This sentence is what you would read in every good holdem book.
I think I may be lucky then. I play at Pokerstars and I usually pick tables on .02-.05 NL with 50%+ pot avg. Generally, a 15-25cent raise scares everyone off. The problem with Slevin's raise was that he was raising 40-50 cents with 3$. This may be the biggest thing where we have our differences, but I treat my stack absolutely as my bankroll. I will not lose my stack because my bankroll can pamper it. This definitely can limit my playing, but I had a huge problem with self-control earlier because I thought I could always grab more money when I busted out. This made me a HUGE loosing poker player, and I've adjusted that by tightening my stack play now. I know in the end, I'll probably go back to the ideology of playing the stacks strictly by the way the books tell to play it. For now, I just play it safe and look for high pay off situations with low chip commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Slevin has the same problem (if not worse) that I do, with spewing chips and money. He deposits frequently and constantly waivers back and forth to becoming pro or a recreational player. If he has more self-discipline past the bankroll point, into his stack size, its going to expand to his playing style, making him play more TAGG than LAGG. This is what I truly believe, and my advice was again, only to him directly. I don't think its right for other people.
I need to remember this.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
WSOP = horrible players = very true. Finals table there... the skills are tremendous. I should have pointed that out. I apologize for being too broad. I'm going to also comment on the poker theory here to relate to the WSOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Ever since I started poker my implied odds have always been my best forte out of anything. From movements, to speech, and to betting patterns, I could pick up what cards my opponent had even before studying poker. It was just that back then, I didn't know how to chain read. Meaning that, I couldn't understand what one mannerism, plus betting pattern, + physical image + chip stack size + whatever else, meant in terms of the player. I just looked at one thing and focused on it.
Now, after studying more and more, I realized Poker is broken into something so very complex. When you get into any table, you always want to play opposite of the table atmosphere and generate high profit payouts. This is one thing books teach you.
Here is something I want to theorize. Please consider it and tell me what you think. In certain tables, depending on the # of fishes there are, the range that people call with, tight players, loose players, calling stations, you can play certain hands with the same probability value as dominant hands. I don't know how to explain it. I'm so excited to tell you what I mean, but its a really complex thing that happens in my head. I understand the table atmosphere almost completely, and I know how to manipulate the betting ranges and when I bet, I generally know what people are holding, and what they're comfortable playing with as soon as post-flop hits.
I play sloppily loose in terms of calling preflop in low stake tables, but its usually when I get 6-1 odds, when the table doesn't raise much, and when I'm deep-stacked. I fold hands that are dominated. A-9 and lower in all early positions. As soon as new players enter and I sense a change in presence, I'll tighten up my game and go strictly back to book playing. So far, all of my sessions on Stars have been positive so I think this is working. I'll let you know after I go 20 more different sessions; who knows, maybe I'm onto something.
My NL hold'em game got strengthened by limit by so much. I have always loss in the end on limit, but the reason why limit taught me how to be better at NL is because of the looseness of other players. When you get to turns and rivers, you have to make impossible decisions. I got beat by a boat of 10s against my trip 9s K kicker for being overly aggressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
The message I wanted to get to Slevin from that remark is that, Limit Holdem is so much of a loose game. Since everyone is loose, you have to play opposite the table, tight. Its also a game where you can't win Huge pots in a matter of seconds, it takes commitment, time, long-term endurance and will to stay up above water in Limit hold em from my experience.
================================
Overall, I believe I offered advice to Slevin in terms to the phase at where he is now. He's always been looking to be a winning player and to become a professional, but he doesn't have the tools to get there, and he states he lacks self-discipline. I know the advice I give him aren't fundamentally sound, but those were different techniques that helped me, and might be able to make him let go of his schema of how poker should be played, and what poker actually is.
From the very first day, I also made a mental label on you Stacks. The first post I read that was rich of advice was your critique in Slevin's operation thread. Right then, I knew you were one of the elite top players with sound rational advice, that I could learn a lot from. I noticed Slevin had a hard time finding a way to get to the enlightenment of your advice, so I'm trying to make him do things that seem offtrack, or backwards, in order for him to past certain stepping stones to better his game.
Again, I'm totally open to any other schools of thoughts you may have on my comments in this post. I find it that, through our disagreements, I infact agree with everything you said and offered. It is just the level of advice that was given. Yours was higher level, while mine was at a lower level--something I think Slevin needs.
What happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Zel - I believe this is what your looking for:
Path to Enlightenment. Follow it.
:D .. Seriously follow that thread, and come join us in #flopturnriver.
Nothing happened Xianti a few have told me I'm wasting my time and theres by asking for advice, because I will not follow their bankroll advice, but I have no problem with people being blunt with their views. The only reason I'm taking some time away from the forums is because I need to develop discipline. I think FTR is a wonderful place and I look forward to coming back and developing my game further when I have developed the basic requirement of discipline that I woefully lack at present and is so important to success at any level of the poker world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xianti
I've learnt alot over the past few months but that is probabally the most important and repeated lesson.
Knowledge without action is worthless, so while I understand that discipline is fundamental to success, I need to find a way, away from the tables of fostering it. I think FTR is the best kept secret in the world of online poker, so I'd just like to thank you for it, and all the mods that moderate it.
See you in a few months!
So you're leaning on HUD while one tabling 10NLFR?
:facepalm:
He's played 500 hands...Quote:
Originally Posted by bigteif
QFMFTQuote:
Originally Posted by fat-b
Okay. Just wanted to be sure that some of the people here weren't driving you away or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Good luck and see you when you're ready!
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Best post in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBollocks
Hehe well, I try to offer good advice to you Slevin and I'm a relatively new member! I hope your break goes well for you, and you can come back stronger. Just remember that, if you've been trying to look for something for this long, and can't find it. A lot of what the negative criticisms you're getting might sadly be true.
Bankroll, I think is really important.. You don't even need the bankroll to be deposited into an engine. Your bankroll can be what you mentally set aside for playing. If you want to play 10NL, make sure you know that the money you win or lose, won't affect your financial ability.
Thanks Zel, I have no problem with negative criticism, I really don't honest! In fact I welcome it, yes what you've said about the bankroll is right on the money, and I am very thankful for those that kept hammering on at me these past four or so weeks telling me to sort my act out RE: BR management. If it wasn't for that I wouldnt have realised the importance of it :) It's just the personal attacks being characterised as a prick and all that crap that I don't take very well. I just think lifes too short - and it's completely counterproductive to anyones poker growth! Although I don't retaliate with like for like insults, it's still is a great detractor from actual growth. I mean I could have spent the last half hour reading up on EV which is what I actually intended instead of replying to that tripe.
I'm not starting 2nl until I have $200. I'm fairly confident I've pinpointed the root of my discipline issues re: my BR - and hope to be a lean mean grinding machine when I restart my OP! =)
{copied from split-out}
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Step 1: Join #flopturnriver
Step 2: Improve rapidly at poker
Step 3: Make $20/hour in rakeback at 100nl
Lol @ new sig!Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
How bout more of you guys try staying up all night so I actually get to talk poker when Im in there :wink:
Or you could come in there more often and not have to make people miss their bedtimes. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBollocks
I ALSO WHATNT 5 DOLALRS
good luck slevin your my hero. you have the discipline to quit not a degen after all.
Good call :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
I’ve had a good couple of days away from the tables and am pleased to say they have been some of the most transformative I’ve had since I can remember. In trying to come to terms with why I repeatedly keep failing to follow the most basic of poker fundamentals such as bankroll management and discipline at the table I have been forced to think about areas of my life in quite a profound way. As a result I have managed to pin-point the problem so far with my poker and also make some real strides in my own personal life.
I’ve come to realize that my inability to look at the longer term picture was partly due to a financial insecurity away from the tables which was being impregnated onto almost every decision I made at the table. I’ve also realized that my dissatisfaction with my current life situation in general meant that I was urgently looking for a quick-fix, this quick-fix mentality was carried forward into my poker. These two pretty major issues have really impacted my game for the worst in these past few months.
These realizations have had a number of consequences. Firstly I’ve started the ball rolling with addressing some financial issues in my life I should have tackled a long time ago, and this has already had a big positive impact on my life. Secondly I have re-evaluated my life and where it is going. I have re-considered the principles (or lack of…) that I’ve been using in making daily decisions in my life, in evaluating where I am at in life, and in evaluating where I want to be in life.
One of the things I’ve realized is that becoming a successful poker player is as much about the transformation that occurs on the way to becoming a successful poker player as it is about actually reaching the finishing line and becoming a successful player.
So… what changes have I made to my poker? Well firstly I have really thought long and hard about ‘the longer term’ approach to poker success. I have changed my frame of reference for success. To be successful is to be successful over days, weeks, months and years. What happens in any one hand, one game, one session or one day should have pretty much zero impact on your success or the way you view your game.
I have been trying to put band-aids on my weaknesses these past few months by repeating and vowing to follow BR management plans for instance, by keep telling myself over and over that I need to stay detached and look at the bigger picture, etc… But I have ignored the issues in my life that I mentioned above and the problem with my overal poker outlook - that these failed attempts signalled.
After quite a bit of thought, In light of all this I have decided to play with 200 buy ins for every stake >$2 that I play at. Aside from the bigger life issues I’ve already made great strides in, I realized that the main reason I spiraled into bankroll degeneracy was because the losses in any one game / session / day meant too much to me. This got me thinking as to what would be an acceptable ‘daily loss’ for me personally, how much of my bankroll could I lose in any given day and really just shrug it off and not be phased? I decided on about 5%, if I’m playing with 100 units of bankroll and lose 10 in one day, the next day I’ve lost 10% of my BR and to me I think that would feel pretty significant. But if I still had 95 units of bankroll left I don’t think I’d feel nearly as bad, that 5% would make a fair difference. In light of this I’ve decided as part of my Bankroll Management Policy, I never want to risk more than 5% of my bankroll in any given day.
I then started thinking about what this means in terms of buy ins. In a ‘worst case scenario', how many buy ins could I lose in one day? I wouldn’t want to stop after losing just one buy in, that can happen at the best of times… not even two, I thought by the time I was approaching 3 or 4 – especially as I start to move up the stakes, this would be a bit more significant. By the time I lost 5 buy ins in one day I think a break for the rest of the day would be wise. Because of this and because I decided I didn’t want to risk more than 5% of my BR in any given day, I decided that 5 buyins couldn’t account for more than 5% of my total BR – that’s how I came at the figure of 100 buy ins for any given stake, because if you are playing with 100 buy ins for any given stake, 5 buy ins will never account for than 5% of your bankroll.
The only exception to the 100 buy in rule I’ve decided will be the first buy in - $2. As I don't have $200 to deposit at the moment I would be unable to play for about a week, but more than this as the sums are so small, so the effect of losing a slightly larger percentage of the bankroll should not be very significant. The reason I struggled so much with this stake in the past is because I was not looking at the long term picture, well actually I was, the problem was I hadn’t assimilated and absorbed the ‘longer term picture’ at my deepest innermost level of thinking. I also had the nagging personal issues that I mentioned in the background which is why my discipline and ability to play sensible +ev poker just completely crumbled after the smallest of losses.
I now realise that EV is about the average profitiability of a descision over many thousands of hands and of almost no consequence, from a results perspective, in any one hand. This is something that I now feel I intuitively understand and coupled with the personal background noise I think I've made a good start at eliminating I'm sure I'm now going to be able to crush these small stakes.
So not only have I made big changes to my poker after some careful thinking about where it’s all been going wrong, but I’ve made some pretty big life-changes – which are going to have as much positive impact on my life as a whole as they are my poker!
Everyone here that has contributed to this development by spending your valuable time answering questions, and pointing out idiotic mistakes over the past few months thank you - and thanks for having the patience to continue offering your advice despite the constant failed attempts I had at implementing it.
I read before that poker is such a good game for the way it strips down everyone to their basic motivations and true self – for the way it reveals peoples characters. I’ve come to realize over the past few days just how true that is.
So thanks again – I think I may actually have a half decent chance of turning things around. OK, diatribe over, just wanted to share my progress so far with you all.
My plans for the coming couple of months are to climb up the micro stakes as and when buy ins allow. Once I pass 2nl the increase in BR has to be pure profit, no depositing in a futile attempt to cut the learning process. I'm going to deposit $30 soon and play 2nl. I'm going to add tables in as per Chardrians earlier advice (add 1 table @ $40, another @ $50 etc... dropping one out if the bankroll should dip by $10).
Goals for the coming two months: -
2nl (until BR reaches $500)
5nl (until BR reaches $1000)
10nl (until BR reaches $2500)
Slevin,
Which is it? 100 or 200 BI's?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Lets say its 100 (and the 200 was just a typo). You're starting with $30 amirite? So you need to win $470 before you'll move up (if you stick to your 100 BI rule). Lets assume a winrate of 5ptBB/100 for the craic.
(470/.2)(100)= 235,000 hands you need to put in before you hit 5nl (assuming no bonus/rakeback)
Somebody correct me if my maths are off. Im sorry Slevin but I would bet the farm that you aint sticking to 2nl for 235k hands
[ ] took break for few monthsQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
[x] back after 5 days
It seems as though you can't stick to anything you say at all - being able to stick to some kind of plan is a key to poker and in fact life/success in anything we undertake.
We don't succeed in anything unless we plan it out and a failure to adhere to that plan will ultimately lead to failure or at least a setback.
Also, you seem to have some sort of epiphany every day. I'm not saying that you don't, I'm saying what ever poker related thoughts or ideas that you come up with are either wrong/bad or if even they are good - you fail to put them into practice.
1. Develop a plan that is achievable and you can stick to. 2nl until $500 is a bit ridiculous)
2. If your not sure on what plan is best, take advice.
3. Stick to the plan, try not to deviate. If you do deviate, realize and get back on track.
4. Not everything will go smoothly, be willing to accept losing some money some days. If you are playing good poker, even slightly better poker than everyone else at your level, you will win in the long run.
5. Post hands and accept ppls criticisms, people are here to help and will help if you stick to your plan.
6. Develop you multitabling skills, the more tables you can play the faster you can learn and move up.
Thats about it.
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You obv have a problem with bankroll management. But maybe that's because it's hard to care about the game when you're buying in for $2. Either follow a BR management system that will move you out of 2nl as fast as possible (hint: it's not 200 buyins) or save up enough money so you have 30 buyins for a level where a buyin actually means something to you. Then move down if you lose 10 buyins. You're just going to fall into the same BR mismanagement trap if you play ridiculously overrolled. Not to mention that playing overrolled will cost you mad money in the long run. Just follow the normal BR management guidelines (30x is conservative, 20x is fine), and 4-table for christsakes, one-tabling 2nl is just depressing. You'll never get enough hands in to improve and move up. Seek advice and post hands when you have losing sessions. But, to be blunt, if you lose 30 buyins at 2nl you should quit and never play poker again.
This is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBollocks
Getting to $100 (for 20 buy-ins at 5NL) will take 35k hands. Odds are he won't even make it that long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Jesus thats a crapload of hands at 2nl. Id rather work at the cheezeburgers then deposit monies to make the cheezeburgers
Setting unrealistic goals is asking for failure, no one (except for crazy people) have the dedication to play over 200k hands at 2nl.
Why not set a more reasonable goal like 30 buyins for 5nl, 4 buyins for 10nl, still very strong BR management but more reasonable to achieve.
Because honestly if you attempt what you want you will fail/cheat and then feel bad.
Thanks for the comments all.
This made a fair bit of sense . I'll adjust to follow this advice then thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
I've just purged my PT database and am going to start over playing 3, 3 hour sessions per day. Also I'm going to stop looking at the cashier in between sessions because that's just distracting.
Also have now replaced the sound card in my laptop so have sound again - will watch spendas microstakes video again before I start.
Starting BR: 42.90
Target BR: 100
Do not play poker until you have money on the side where you can INVEST in, not throw away.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat-b
The way I see it, the type of player you are is: Either you're going to be playing desperate with the last bit of leftover money to deposit, or you're going to be splashing pots with money you think you can easily throw around via multi tables.
Every dime you drop in should be handled carefully.
Thanks for the advice but I don't think you understand that I'm not playing poker for fun, I'm trying to create a career out of it. Hence I'll be playing regardless of what money I have outside of poker for the next couple of months, also that's an old post - I have already re deposited since then if you'd read the newer posts.
Actually zooks advice was good thinking on it I may just wait until I can deposit more, and play a better stake.
I played against a "slevin1977" on UB a few nights ago at 10nl - that's not you, is it? I coughed up half a BI to you, if it was, tho'. vnh.
But this slevin was a nit - maybe different guy?
Well there's your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
And wait till you can deposit enough to play 100nl. It's way easier up here. Table select by searching for my screenname, cuz I always find the best games on PS.
Lemme see...half a buy-in...that's <serious mental computations working...> like fifty bucks? Wait...I'm rolled for 100nl NOWWWWWWWWW!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Come on up.. The weather is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
lol guys,no robb that wasn't me ;-)
I was having a conversation with my father earlier and was speaking about my terrible past habbit of developing a bankroll, playing higher stakes and losing it... He said why don't you wait until you have enough to cover a go at the higher stake and enough to just drop back down to the lower stake if it doesn't work to get the money back... I said you've just more or less explained bankroll management that i've been studying for the last upteen weeks... and he said... bankroll management? thats just common sense insn't it? lol - was amusing but true and a bit of a reality check.
I've been playing a few $1 sng'slately and am enjoying them, I think I'll play a few more to build the bankroll a bit more enjoyable than multi tabling 2nl =)
I was reading some of your bankroll management discussion. LoL. You don't 100 BI at the micros, and you'll go nuts playing that long. Spoony's recommendations are both nitty and reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Looks like if you grind up to $100, you'd be ready for 5nl. I think his last line of "you'll be making a lot of money in less than two years imo" is important. It's not overnight that you'll turn poker into a revenue stream capable of making big dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Good luck.
I wish Zook was my father!!!! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Grinding up >>>> saving to play at a higher level, especially for you. Jumping to 5NL would probably be ok, but 10NL is too high.
when you make a goal don't say you are going to stop doing things you need to keep stuff in a positive manner. I can't think of a positive way to say i'm going to not look at my cashier cause your brain will go look at the cashier. Do something like I'm only gonna look at my tables when I play.
oh ya another goal I'm gonna chat in IRC for one hour everyday
I'm actually looking to adopt someone over 21 with decent wage-earning potential. Please PM me with your details.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
How to play Aces from EP... couldn't beleive this when I checked the HH after the hand, had to share it with you guys...
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG (t1420)
UTG+1 (t1570)
MP1 (t230)
MP2 (t1055)
MP3 (t2070)
CO (t2765)
Hero (Button) (t1470)
SB (t1440)
BB (t1480)
Hero's M: 49.00
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP2 calls t20, 2 folds, Hero calls t20, SB calls t10, BB checks
Flop: (t100) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB bets t40, 1 fold, UTG calls t40, 1 fold, Hero folds
Turn: (t180) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, UTG checks
River: (t180) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets t40, UTG calls t40
Total pot: t260
Results in white below:
SB had 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (high card, Queen).
UTG had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: UTG won t260
on an unrelated side note... I raise 3bb utg (150) with AK(s) - I get a shove from MP and a call from MP+1 both their stacks put me all in. (midposition of $1 sng) I fold AK, is that a decent fold?
I'd say it's a good fold unless the blinds are big enough to force you to play a hand soon. If that's the case, you may have to wait too long to get a better hand than AK.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Good fold especially that early in a SNG thats the first level your probably beat or a coinflip but it's not worth it at that point. Get in IRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Thanks. I just seem to be missing a slight edge at the moment. I played for quite a while yesterday and managed to break even over about 40 $1 sng's - but couldn't seem to get any momentum under me and get in front.
I'm going to work on my mid and late stage strategy now, I have the early stages pretty much under the belt - you can't go far wrong there really. A few times I've had a big chip advantage with about six of us left and managed to lose half of it and just make the money... I think I'm going to work more on preserving my chip lead and only playing monsters in late position, and stealing from the mid/short stacks.
I have this thing in my head that says it's bad to just tighten up in the later stages if your chip leader as you're not using your chips optimally... but then I think this is compensated for by the reduced risk of losing half your stack to a bad beat/or when your AQ meets AK for instance. Interested to hear your guys thoughts on this.
Also I have a November bonus at PS to reach SilverStar by the end of the month, If I can just break even over 20 $3sngs daily until the end of the month I'll hit it, reach silverstar, and trigger the $50 bonus for the following month. This sounds like a good BR boost for me at the moment so I might try that.
Do these bonuses occur every month? or are they more random? First time I've had that message when I log into PS??
I suck at SnG's, so I may be full of bs here. But my view on a big chip stack is that you have to use it - well. Playing too loose allows opponents to wait for great hands and double through or win a big pot, thus allowing them back into the game. Playing too tight, you blind off all your monies. There is some happy medium, playing good solid ABC poker, opening a bit (especially in position), and taking a few small chances. You don't have to play very loose (maybe 15-20% or so VP$P) to stay even with the blinds if you don't go card dead, so there's no reason to start playing 40% of your hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Depends on your stack, opponents' stacks, how many left in the game etc. In some instances, you can be raising 80% - 90% of your hands and be uncontested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
If no one is comparable in chips then 50% is quite easily achievable. Defacto, even.
weren't you sat at 10NL cash tables on stars yesterday?? lucky1slevin?
Hopefully not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sil693
http://www.newsinferno.com/wp-includ...n-Derail-3.jpg
He has also blocked his Sharkscope stats. This would seem to indicate that he has continued playing SNGs when he said he wouldn't - and isn't rolled for.
3 2 1 ...
No my stars name is LkySlev1n.Quote:
Originally Posted by sil693
I'm flattered that you chose to spend your time checking me out on Sharkscope. I disabled sharkscope some time ago courtesy of past trollers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
:-) sorry to dissapoint.
Past trollers know your SNG results and even posted them in your operations so what benefit is blocking them now? That's the door and bolted horse scenario.
I didn't block them 'now', re-read what I just said ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Thunder if you can't control your animus, kindly stay out of my thread.
It was a perfectly reasonable question.
That you have chosen to avoid and react as you have speaks volumes. As does your blocking of your stats and the flimsiness of your excuse.
Whether you blocked them last week or last month makes no difference to the fact that everyone knows you played almost 400 SNGs and crashed like a degen. Hence the bolted horse metaphor.
You didn't ask a question you made two statements. If you had of asked a question I would have course answered but your third person statements about me where obviously designed to spark a reaction which I'm not prepaed to give you. I'm not engaging with you anymore, it's up to you if you continue to post but I'd rather you didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
-----
Hey everyone (lingering trollers aside), I've been thinking a bit more about the lower stakes recently and also reading and learning more about multi-tabling.
I realised today that by 10 tabling 5nl, at just 5ptbb/100 which I would assume is a fairly modest expectation at that level, I would be earning about $5 an hour which is about $40 a day, which would see the bankroll grow fairly rapidly I'm sure. In the past when I've 8-10 tabled I've done so with all the tables in view (with them next to each other - spread over the laptop screen and a second monitor).
Have recently replaced the laptop with a slightly more reliable desktop - which although not new, is still quite a bit better than the laptop I was using.
I experimented a little with stacking and playing 5-8 sng's at a time, and over about 40/50 had 18% ROI.
Anyway getting back to the start of this post, 10 tabling 5nl would allow me to make some significant bankroll growth at just 5ptbb/100.
I think I'm going to find a lowly coach that is just currently grinding 10nl, but has a known record of beating 2nl/5nl - over a large number of games. I'm guessing their rate would be fairly reasonable as they are still in the low stakes - but at the same time they would be able to teach me how to beat the 5nl stakes. Assuming It takes me a week or so to learn how to beat that stake, then it will only take me another couple of weeks and I should be well on my way to building a greatly increased BR.
I'm going to check out the web and some of the other sites and see what the prices are like, does anyone know what a cheap price for someone of this standard i.e. proven ultra micro stake winner would likely be? Thanks!
I am going to hope that there aren't any coaches at 10nl and I predict there aren't. Hopefully you can network with someone at those stakes and ask for a little guidance or ask if they can sweat you or something or you sweat them.
Oh I see what you mean, you wouldn't expect a good player to be at 10nl for very long, so if a 'coach' is that would be dubious... hmm, what do you think the lowest stake games a 'basic' coach, if there is such a thing, would play, would be?
You'll definitely get the lowest price from networking and knowing people personally. I can't really say what the cheapest rate would be. What are you trying to spend?
I really think it'd be more beneficial to befriend players who have the time to talk/sweat/etc. with you for free/small price.
I no longer believe you're real.
Then what was this:Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
?????????Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Or it was, as I can confirm, a continuation of the discourse that was already set in motion and which, when I replied, was being carried forth by ProzachNation?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
You have a habit of (mis) psychoanalysing everyone that you perceive to be disrespectful of you. I remember all those claims that Stacks, Muzzard, DeanGlow were acting out of self loathing. It's hilarious!
Like most of these guys, I asked a simple question and made a simple point. All you had to do was answer but again you choose to see animosity and inveigling where there is none.
Looks like a major form of (repeated) Freudian slipping to me.
I was wondering if this line would be trawled out. This should be on your tombstone - along with "I'm taking a break for a few months", "I've learnt BRM" & "I have assimilated all the info FTRers have given me", thx guys".Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Is that what you call anyone who points out the flaws in the reasoning, asks a simple question & notes that the refusal to answer was telling?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
So will you unblock your stats and let us see?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
No doubt you'll twist this into some hate rage hard on to bring Slevin down when reality is quite different. One post to Prozach & co and one to you. Before you got all pissy, that is.
You become more and more like the dad I want with every post.Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
20 years old. Junior in college. 100nl winner, soon to be 200nl. Looking for a father who likes hookers and blow as much as I do.
Thunder will likely get a strike if he keeps posting in this thread. Look at what happened to redpalo for an example.
Slevin, if you want to become a better player, come to IRC. It's really that easy.
OK I'll give that a try, I'm next going to be playing either tomorrow or Friday so when I am I'll stop by, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I offer my coaching services at reasonable rates, PM for deets. I am a proven winnnnaaaaaar up to 50nl.
This is promising.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
(Minus the hookers, I'm engaged. But I'm a firm believer that young men should "sow their wild oats".)
Just come in right now. Hard to study when you're in the middle of playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
A bright new day.. and a new dawn in Slevins Poker journey! time to put the failed attempts behind me and move on to a winning strategy once and for all :)
New OP. Beat 2nl for 6ptbb/100 over 10k of hands.
Important things that should happen along the way.
- remember 2nl is an end in itself.
- don't worry about money, just think winrate.
- post biggest losers after every losing session and learn from feedback.
I'm actually going to spend a fair amount of time each day just thinking about winrate and 2nl - and what it is i'm trying to achieve, like 30 minutes a day just thinking to myself about it. After a couple of weeks of this hopefully it'll be ingrained and should change the way I look at my time at the poker table, I think this is probabally the most important thing I need to do now to make the transition from losing player to winning player.
It dawned on me today I've never been able to say I can beat a stake, it must be rewarding when you can do that. That's my goal for 2nl. I'd like to play 30k hands at 2nl in the long run and see how my stats fair, but for now taking one step at a time, I'm going to stick with a goal of 6ptbb/100 over 10k of hands.
three things:Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
1) unblock sharkscope if you want anyone to believe your amazing transformation to a winning sng player. Or not. Up to you ;)
2) 5ptbb/100 means a buy in every 1000 hands. So if you're playing 1000 hands an hr, then $5/hr is very achievable - however 1000 hands of Full Ring will probably take closer to 1 1/2 hrs if ten tabling full ring.
3) you're wasting your money paying a 10nl grinder for coaching. As you explained yourself, anyone generating a decent winrate will get significant returns - and won't be stuck at 10nl. ISF's article on beating beginner stakes tells you all you need, so long as you can stop yourself falling into fancy play syndrome.
best of luck
edit:50nl, does spoon still offer coaching?Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
it's nice to be able to beat a level. I played a lot of hands at $5nl about a year ago, and beat it. Felt good.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Which is what I asked. As well as asking why they were blocked in the first place as they've been known for months.Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Slevin, you need to get your ass back into IRC.
please let spoon and the others help you
good luck!
Thanks flomo/spoon, and thanks Daven regarding my sharscope stats, I've decided they are staying blocked. I prefer to keep it that way to put a wall in front of the trollers, I know how I'm doing and that's all that really bothers me =)
Daven those comments you made about my 5nl post - thank you for that. I'm actually playing 2nl now as per last 'new op' post though. Also having spoken with Zook via pm he's persuaded me that 10 tabling 2nl is not going to be wise playing 8 hours a day, so I'm going to 6table instead. Also this should help me to get more of a return from learning, I'll be hanging out in the IRC chat room a fair bit now as well - it was a nice experience there yesterday was made to feel very welcome, and it was nice chatting with some of the ftr regs in realtime and getting to know them a bit more :-)
focus on one type of holdem for now
stick with whatever you choose, whether it be cash/ring, sng or tourneys
there are sites other than sharkscope that the trollers can look you up on
Have read eupho's article on simple poker math and it's been an excellent read - poker math seems simple now, which it certainly didn't in the past - well worth the read for anyone that doesn't 'get' poker math - i'm looking forward to using it at the tables :) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=simple%20math
I'm also going to read that book he cited in his article!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I love to say this told you so everyone in there is chill.
Down about 3 buyins since yesterday so my $10 heads up winnings was down to $4. Have just deposited my final deposit to take me to $50 - this is going to be my last deposit - come on time to crack 2nl this time around!
I need to read Eupho's basic math article (linked above) before each session to remind me the basics until they are set, this will help me greatly with odds and deciding whether to stay in the pot on the strength of a draw.
I've been lucky to receive some great advice from great players at FTR, which I've broken into key points to remember when I play. Will start my first session with these points in mind when I get in, in a couple of hours as I'm going to see my new nephew that was born yesterday now =0
1. PRE FLOP STRATEGY (courtesy of spoon)
If first in the pot (no one has limped or raised before you)
EP:
UG: AQ+ ; 55+
UG+1 : add AJ(s) KQ(s)
MP1: add AJ(o) KQ(o)
MP
MP2 - add suited broadways, add any pocket pair
HJ - add any broadway, A9(s)-A8(s), T9(s)-87(s)
LP
CO - add 54(s)+ , any suited ace
BU - add Ax, Kx(s), 64(s)+,
SB (dependent on BB reads... but as a rule)
any two cards 9 or higher
any suited connector
any pp
If the pot has already been opened from someone in...
EP: 3bet with QQ+ and AK ; IF loose player add JJ-TT
call with all pp (if implied odds good)
MP: 3bet with slightly wider range if opp is loose enough.
call with SCs and PPs if good IO.
LP/BLINDS: 3bet with (as above)
call with all pp's and scs (again if IO are ok).
2. Don't bet unless you have TPGK or are drawing to the nuts, or are HU on the flop and cbetting your initial PF raise. (courtesy Dozer)
3. Don't raise anyone trying to force them out of a pot as part of some cbet strategy, only raise if you think you have the best hand. (courtesy Keilah)
4. The more your FE is the more you should bet draws aggressively... so unless strong reads tell you otherwise don't use the bet draw tactic at 2nl. (courtesy Dozer)
5. Remember why you bet. To get weaker hands to call, or to get better hands to fold. (courtesy Stacks)
6. Your focus should be on every descision while at the table and on analayzing your hands after your sessions, that's where all effort should be. Stop thinking about winrates and how much you are earning / are going to earn when you move up. (courtesy Zook)
7. Don't otherthink your game or read up on things that aren't relevent to where you are at in your poker journey. Micro stakes is ABC poker, Tight - Aggressive. Bet when you have the hand, fold when you don't. Just develop the basic ABC poker skills now that is all that are needed to beat 2nl. (courtesy Willburforce)
8. Here's what you do now:
1) Beat current limit.
2) Build Bankroll.
3) Move up.
4) Repeat.
5) Profit.
also, it's way harder than it sounds, definitely be prepared to experience
3a) lose at current limit
& 3b) move down - (courtesy Daven)
good luck!!
Thanks flomo so far so good :cool:
I played yesterday and just concentrated on making the best descisions I could at the table - also I was speaking to others in IRC about what to do when you have position on limpers - and have since opened up my raising range behind them - which is working pretty well.
The buy ins are looking after themselves niceley, played 88 hands yesterday evening and averaged 55 bb/100 . Just finished another hour session 4 tabling and was about the same winrate. Not that I'm giving much attention to winrate while I'm playing for now, just nice to be moving the BR up for a change rather than down :)
I started my session today great but made a costly mistake - had a maniac at my table, he was raising with average hands alot and was raising very big. When he went all in and I was holding JJ's I called and stacked him he had 55s...
I made the mistake of wanting to get into more pots with him and widened my range (not intentionally didn't notice until I reviewed my hands!) - I ended up stacking off with AQ after he raised pre and I re-raised and he called and then we both hit Aces on the flop and he shoved but he had AK.
I need to remember that just because someones a maniac it doesn't mean they wont have any nuts hands.
Also the same guy cost me later - I raised with 10's UTG and got re-raised in MP. This maniac in CO shoved (150bb) I thought he's doing this with 55+ AJ+ so I shoved over the top 200bb - but got called by two behind me, the original 3better had KK's... I need to remember that when you have tagged a fish - just because you have his mark doesn't mean you can ignore the others at the table in an attempt to get into more pots with him.
After - that I decided to stop for a bit and just absorb that little bit of knowledge. Even after those I still ended the 1 hour at 55bb/100 so am pleased.
As long as I continue to make good descisions at the table and learn from my bad ones I think I'll be OK. The good thing with 2nl is you can afford to make mistakes to learn from and still end the session up, I've only played a couple of sessions with the strategy I outlined recently but so far it's the best I've played - so hopefully it'll continue!
well done Slevin. Sounds like your heading in the right direction finally.
And what you said about mistakes is true, you can get away with them more at micro's. And the micros' is defo the place to be learning from your mistakes, because as you move up, they start costing.
What you need to be doing is cutting your mistakes down and profitting on other peoples.
GL
My last shot at 2nl worked a little better than usual but still ended a bit too prematurely. There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with.
This meant that I lost far too many pots which meant that I started a downward losing streak... etc... etc...
I've spent a good few hours recently going over pre-flop strategy guidelines, I've been using spoons which I posted earlier in the thread and also rentons here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/Small-S...y-Preflop.html
Renton has confirmed that his starting hands will work well in 2nl.
As I type this I'm in a library - I've been condensing my main preflop strategy into one side of A4 so I can have it by my side when I next play (which should be tonight). Both approaches were quite simmiliar with the exception that with Rentions a number of the high IO hands are being limped for IO, and in spoons in late position they are being raised.
I've also got a better idea about what the criteria is for 'good implied odds now' - following the advice in the Renton strategy guide, I'll be looking for 15+ effective stack size for lower PP's, and 20-25 for SC's that won't hold their own if they only connect to form a pair on the flop.
Also I don't want to be stacking off with one pair post flop if I stand to lose 200b or more, I had an idea about this, but Rentons advice kind of codified the vague idea for me. As per Rentons advice I'll be looking for implied odds type hands against the big stacks and will not be content to stack off with top pairs when playing for 200bbs+
Question: I do have a question though on a fairly non drawy board... such as T 7 3 rainbow, if I have Aces should I be happy to stack off here for 200bb+, or would the Aces fall into the same category that I've just mentioned when against another deepstack?
- The next area for development now is early post-flop play. I.e how do I play once I've seen a flop, for now until I learn more I'm going to be unprepared to put any more money into the pot unless I have 1. at least top pair, or 2. unless I'm cbetting against one opponent. Or 3. unless the odds for my draw warrant a call. I think the answer to developing this part of my game is just playing more and getting comments on hands. Providing I don't make donk moves that should be fairly easy at 2nl as sound strategy minus donk moves should see an increase in BR - instead of the drop I usually start seeing within a day or so.
I'm also still on a mission to work on my discipline issues, disicipline in a hand (i.e. folding when not a favourite or odds don't justfy a call), discipline not to play higher stakes (I still do this when I start losing and it has to stop), discipline to ignore the short term results and concentrate on my growth.
I've got a fair bit out of my time at the library, I'm going to start doing this more often - aside from anything else it puts you in the right frame of mind for when you return, having just spent 4-5 hours studying and going over my notes I'm sure I'm going to be a lot less inclined to start making donk moves.
I've noticed also that when I'm at the same table as a member of FTR and we are talking I'm much less likely to make donk moves, the effect is huge, not because they are telling me things I don't already know - but because in their presence I don't want to be making donk moves. I think back to the last day I played a couple of days ago when wellrounded was at my table after asking if I minded if he joined - we were chatting away through IRC as we were playing, talking about how tight the table was, and generally sharing our thoughts on the hands as were playing them.
For about 100 hands we did this and both steadily increased our stacks, however when wellrounded left I found myself starting to make calls / or stupid re-raises I just knew in the back of my mind were -ev but made them anyway because I thought... ' I could take the pot down, or because I thought I was being bluffed..'
I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.
By getting everything down onto that one A4 sheet I mentioned earlier - and referring to it with every hand that I play - with a bit of luck I'll start making the right descisions with more regularlity and start winning.
I'm standing at a gate now and have been for sometime at this early stage of my poker journey, and only I can make the move - and open it.
I was looking at undergrad degrees today - the time I've taken out of the working life grind (I left my job in September) has been a great opportunity for me to reassess where things are going. While I was looking into the possibility of going back to University and getting a degree the idea came back to me that I had ages ago - about just how long term poker is. It's time for me to remember that to earn decent money at poker you need to give it a couple of years to blossom into something worthwhile, just like you would with any worthwhile pursuit. I'll do well to remember this over the coming weeks/months.
The journey continues - the focus for the coming week or so is going to be folding when I know I should, and sticking to just 2nl.
- oh I forgot to mention I did have some little success last week =) I placed 87th in the high SNG orbit for the mecury division ($1+ sngs) of the SNG leaderboards on Stars- (for the high division you need to play 100 within a week), I won $5 for placing 87th - but it was the fact that I actually achieved something concrete that was really rewarding. As much as I enjoy the finite nature of the SNGs and the SNG leaderboards, I think 2nl is where I need to be right now developing solid ABC skills and some basic cash skills - so that's where I'm going to stay for now.
I'd like to go back to the SNGs at some point in the future, because I do enjoy them, I actually prefer them to 2nl, I enjoy the variety in game dynamics more - early play, bubble play, and ITM play. But I hear cash play is usually more profitable and a better introduction to sound fundamentals... I'm sure I'll enjoy cash play more once I beat a limit and start moving up - so for now I'm going to put the SNGs on hold and just continue to concentrate on 2nl, and making the right choices at the table.
Wow Slevin I just spent a while reading the first 1/2 of this op and a few along the way down the rest.
I would like to give you a piece of advice but to be honest I don't think you'll take it. I think you'll do what I see you doing all along this thread, you say "Yes, good idea, thank you for the input," you might even repeat it, and then you go and do something else.
Here's my advice.
1. Take an hour or two before your next session.
2. Get a piece of paper and pen.
3. Read this op from start to finish and jot down EVERY time you say you're going to do something in one column (for example - On such and such date I said I would 1 table until I hit $x).
4. EVERY time you come across a situation where you did the OPPOSITE of what is in the first column, write it down in the second column (on such and such date I was 8 tabling).
5. Sit back and reflect.
I think you will be shocked dude. Reflect on all this spinning of your wheels.
Find a game you can win within your BR. Play it. Stop all this switching. One day you're SnGs, next you're FR, next your 6 max, back to SnGs. Then you're moving up limits?
Pick the game you can win. Win. Make it your bread and butter. Play that same game until you can crush it with your eyes closed. Savor the winning.
Thanks for reading my blog Kijjo. Yeah disicipline is definately my number one hurdle, I know that from past experience. That talk about spinning the wheels is a great analogy because that's exactly where I've been so far pretty much stuck in neutral.
I was speaking to spoon today about where I last went wrong and it started with tilt, this is usually the blame when I look back at some of my other past mistakes. Tilt is something I need to sort before I can progress and it all ties back in with discipline. I'm going to really work on being able to just walk away if I feel myself tilted in future. That A4 page I mentioned also is helping alot, I have a lot of reminders on there and because they are all on the same page I'm constantly referring to them during the game that helps quite a bit.
I guess if it wasn't for my determination I'd have given up quite a while ago so that is a plus that I can take out of my failed attempts so far. As things go at the moment discipline is the only thing thats stopping me from progressing so with every new push - that's the number one area I'm working on, trust me.
Things have started well so far - played for 3.75 hours today 3-4 tabling and ran at 25.3BB/100 over 414 hands so a good start. Just concentrating on solid descisions and hopefully the results'll take care of themselves. God willing I might actually crack the discipline thing this time around and move out of neutral. Next session tomorrow, I'll keep you guys posted. Cheers !
Only read a little.
Don't play deep until you're more comfortable 100bb deep. You'll start to realize who it's profitable for you to play that deep vs, and who you'd just be swapping stacks.
i hope you win the WSOP Main Event some day.