what pre-flop situations should you call/fold ???

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Originally Posted by Pelion

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Originally Posted by biondino

Thing is, you can't say to the original poster that because NO hand is a 10:1 dog, he should bet 100 into a 1000 pot with 36o. This is where maths is limited because it NEEDS a tactical addendum when applied to inexperienced players.

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sure you can. You can say, if you are getting 10:1 against 1 player and it will put you allin then you gotta call.

Thats a pretty important SnG lesson to learn.

e.g.

you are on BB with crap of spades. The BB is half your stack.

There is a raise and two calls, then the tight big stack pushes in. Its pretty likely all of the other played will fold so you call with any 2 getting 12:1 on a headsup pot.

That sort of situation isnt so uncommon in a SnG and it is a DISASTER to fold here, so you say so. It doesnt have to be one of the first things you say to a beginner but if someone is playing SnGs you should certainly mention it in the first couple of weeks

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If this was ment to be a SnG question then I definetly agree with what you say here. But if this is a ring question then it changes, right? Surely ring doesn't play like SnG. Although I have been in some ring games where they play it that way.

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Originally Posted by biondino

Pelion, that's exactly the kind of tactical addendum I meant :)

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That is in fact exactly the mathematical approach. If you say "he could have AA, KK, QQ or AK" I could say "1/2 he'll have AA/KK/QQ and 1/2 he'll have AK". Even for bluff there is a mathematical analysis possible. On any given flop you can calculate the odds your opp has "something"; pair, set, overpair, flush draw, straight draw, and the likelyhood a certain raise will cause a fold based on a set of premises, such as what your opp is willing to pay for MP, TP, draws, etc.

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Originally Posted by chardrian

I understand why AOK feels attacked and hurt but I also think he is a big enough guy that he can deal with it.

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Are you saying aok is fat? :lol: kidding of course.

Math is involved in just about every decision to some degree or another. Even if you dont realize your using it, you very well subconsciously probably are using it. Even with the simplist of decisions.

Has no one here watched Nmbers? :D