**Ask a monkey a physics question thread**

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

IDK. It's not something a non-physicist will need to learn about. It'd be a challenge to describe the Higgs field in any non-hand-wavey manner to a 2nd year physics major. It's not something a non-physicist is going to understand in a comprehensive way other than to memorize some statements.

Even the layman's understanding of "Physicists have detected Higgs Bosons." is misleading, because we haven't had any detector register the presence of a Higgs Boson. We've observed the decay products of a particle with the properties hypothesized by Higgs, et al. If it has all the properties of the thing, it is that thing. So we've detected evidence of Higgs Bosons' decay, which implicitly confirms the existence of Higgs Bosons.

If our new understanding of Higgs bosons leads to a new unforeseen shift in technology, then his name will be remembered. Like Einstein's. If Einstein's relativity didn't tell us to look for Black Holes, or enable us to create big explosions, microwave ovens and GPS, then I doubt he'd be much remembered, either, like so many names of Nobel Prize recipients.

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None of those things are relevant to him being remembered. It only needs to be a hand wavy explanation, it doesn't need to be a discovery in terms of here it is in a jar. He's remembered because this big thing that happened that was all over the news for years kept mentioning his name & his name will continue being mentioned in the future because he's pretty fundamental.

Now he's not like a Newton or Einstein where he is cemented in popular culture but he wouldn't be a pointless answer (tv reference I doubt you get).

Central African Republic. That's always a pointless answer.

Suppose you want a glass of 50 degree C water, but all you have is a hot tap and a cold tap that produce typical streams of water at 98 and 2 degree C respectively. So you fill the glass halfway with 98 degree water, stop that tap, then move over to the cold tap. When the stream of cold water hits the hot water, some drops splash out, like when your poop hits the toilet water and water splashes back out.

1. Why does this happen??
2. What is the average temperature you'd expect the water that splashes out to be?

I'm sure the problem is underspecified; feel free to make whatever reasonable assumptions you think are necessary.

Thanks very much in advance.

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Originally Posted by Juked07

Suppose you want a glass of 50 degree C water, but all you have is a hot tap and a cold tap that produce typical streams of water at 98 and 2 degree C respectively. So you fill the glass halfway with 98 degree water, stop that tap, then move over to the cold tap. When the stream of cold water hits the hot water, some drops splash out, like when your poop hits the toilet water and water splashes back out.

1. Why does this happen??
2. What is the average temperature you'd expect the water that splashes out to be?

I'm sure the problem is underspecified; feel free to make whatever reasonable assumptions you think are necessary.

Thanks very much in advance.

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Lol. I addressed this a while back when someone asked how much of the splash is actually urine when you pee and some splashes back. Turns out nearly all of the splash back is urine.

In your case, almost all the splash back will be the cold water.

1. This is due to surface tension. The bonds in the surface require some energy to break. So when a drop of water falls onto a pool or a cup of water, the objects don't immediately merge. They express forces on each other, like a ball on a stretchy sheet. The drop pushes down on the pool, and the pool pushes up on the drop. This accelerates some of the molecules in the pool downward, forming a depression in the surface, and it accelerates some of the molecules in the drop upward. So the action which causes upward acceleration is from the pool to the drop. Therefore, (some of) the drop is accelerated upward and bounces away. Frequently, the drop splits, and some will remain in the pool, while some goes bouncing away.

It's not like poop hitting water and causing a splash. It that case, the poop is more solid and the upward force will only slow its decent. It's not enough reaction force to tear the poop and send bits of it flying, like you'd presumably see if you dropped that duke out a tall window. It's also relevant that it's more dense than the water and it sinks readily, causing a "big" divot in the water's surface, which refills from the bottom up and can create a jet-like fountain as the up-filling water is compressed from the in-rushing water from the side, too.

BTW, if this happens to you often, do yourself a favor and drop a single square of TP in the bowl before you sit. It will fold around the first turd and basically prevent the splash. It only works on the first one, but the first is usually the biggest one that causes a splash. FYI.

2. I expect the water which splashes out to be nearly 2 C.

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That hot tap needs to be adequately marked as a safety hazard. Much over ~55 C can cause 1st degree burns on contact.
About 49 - 50 C is a respectable, but not immediately dangerous temp. for a household tap.

As such, I recommend just go ask your neighbor for a glass of hot water from their tap.
:)

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Originally Posted by mojo

It's also relevant that it's more dense than the water and it sinks readily...

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Someone isn't eating enough brown bread.

Why does my right shoe come untied so much more often than my left, regardless of the brand or style of shoes I wear?

I reckon it's a consequence of the angle of your forearm relative to your upper arm when tying up the laces. When right handed people tie up their left shoe, the angle at the elbow is more acute than when tying up the right, where it becomes more obtuse. This will effect the leverage, and thus right handed people tie up their left shoes slightly tighter, on average.

If you're left handed, then obviously I'm talking shit, and the complete opposite is true.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I reckon it's a consequence of the angle of your forearm relative to your upper arm when tying up the laces. When right handed people tie up their left shoe, the angle at the elbow is more acute than when tying up the right, where it becomes more obtuse. This will effect the leverage, and thus right handed people tie up their left shoes slightly tighter, on average.

If you're left handed, then obviously I'm talking shit, and the complete opposite is true.

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I use both hands to tie my shoes. Also, though I'm not body builder, I'm certain both arms possess the strength necessary to make a knot.

I use both hands, but I'm right handed, so I expect to put a slight amount more force into tying with my right hand than with my left hand, on average at least.

Obviously both arms have the strength to tie a knot. It's not about strength, more an imbalance of forces. Do you suppose both arms have equal strength?

You could just wait for mojo to give the proper answer. This is the "out of ong's arse" answer and could very well be wrong.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Why does my right shoe come untied so much more often than my left, regardless of the brand or style of shoes I wear?

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IDK.

If not ong's suggestion, then perhaps you walk funny. Like...Do you walk softly with your left foot, but just stomp around with your right foot? Increased vibrations cause the knot to jiggle and loosen over many stomps.

Oh oh... is your right leg much shorter than your left leg? So the stomping is caused by you having a stumpy right leg?

Is your right shoelace Teflon coated? That could do it.


Seriously, though... IDK. Time to transition to loafers, maybe.

I like Ongs answer, it's like 99% complete bullshit and 1% touching on some ideas that may actually be relevant. 100% believable though.

I like putting ice in my drinks and this causes the outside of the glass to get wet. This in turn makes the coaster that I use stick to the bottom of the glass when I pick it up creating a whole shit tonne of issues. Solutions to stop this happening?

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Originally Posted by Savy

I like putting ice in my drinks and this causes the outside of the glass to get wet. This in turn makes the coaster that I use stick to the bottom of the glass when I pick it up creating a whole shit tonne of issues. Solutions to stop this happening?

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Humidity is the problem. The water is in the air, and is condensing on the glass as it cools. Get a dehumidifier, they can be bought from £75 or so bottom-of-the-range appliances, a bargain considering the hassle a slightly moist glass can cause.

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I like Ongs answer, it's like 99% complete bullshit and 1% touching on some ideas that may actually be relevant. 100% believable though.

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I think you're being a bit harsh here. I think I might have at least 3% logic in there somewhere.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Humidity is the problem. The water is in the air, and is condensing on the glass as it cools. Get a dehumidifier, they can be bought from £75 or so bottom-of-the-range appliances, a bargain considering the hassle a slightly moist glass can cause.

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I was thinking of spending about £0 to fix this problem. I do want a dehumidifier for my room though but not happening any time soon.

I'm also aware of what's causing it, wouldn't have thought a dehumidifier would make that much difference though. Surely it doesn't need to be all that humid for this to happen?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I think you're being a bit harsh here. I think I might have at least 3% logic in there somewhere.

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I like a lot of the ideas I just think things like strength of knot due to strength is going to be incredibly minimal as we aren't putting in huge force when tying shoes, my right arm is stronger than my left but I can easily apply equal output assuming that is low enough for both arms. If there is a difference it's going to be small and I can't imagine that small effect is going to cause that big of a difference.

I imagine he is just doing something weird when tying his shoes.

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Originally Posted by Savy

I'm also aware of what's causing it, wouldn't have thought a dehumidifier would make that much difference though. Surely it doesn't need to be all that humid for this to happen?

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There just needs to be humidity. The glass is cooling down because of the ice, which makes it a prime place for condensation to happen. This will happen less where the relative humidity is lower, and you can get lower relative humidity either by removing moisture from the air (obviously), or heating the air (which increases it capacity to hold moisture).

So yeah, a dehumidifer would help a lot. Obviously, condensation happens a lot more at 95% RH than it does at 55% RH. There will still be some condensation, but the droplets might not be big enough to slide down the glass and onto the coatser, they might just form a light mist on the surface.

Surely we can test this purely using heat then? Assuming that has a big enough effect on humidity (i.e. I can do it with a thermostat).

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If there is a difference it's going to be small and I can't imagine that small effect is going to cause that big of a difference.

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It might be just enough for some people that there's a noticeable trend over time in favour of one particular lace becoming undone. Perhaps the imbalace in his arm strength is more profund than most, perhaps due to a poor tying tequnique.

I think he needs to practise tying up his right boot. Four hours a day for a month should do it.

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Originally Posted by Savy

Surely we can test this purely using heat then? Assuming that has a big enough effect on humidity (i.e. I can do it with a thermostat).

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Yeah if you blast the glass with a blowtorch for 10 seconds or so just before you put the ice in, I reckon there will be zero condensation.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Yeah if you blast the glass with a blowtorch for 10 seconds or so just before you put the ice in, I reckon there will be zero condensation.

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That is unrealistic though that's my point.

I can easily get 0 degrees for one room and 30 degrees in another (assuming we have a few cold days left in the UK this year). Is this effect anything relative to what a dehumidifier does?

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Originally Posted by Savy

That is unrealistic though that's my point.

I can easily get 0 degrees for one room and 30 degrees in another (assuming we have a few cold days left in the UK this year). Is this effect anything relative to what a dehumidifier does?

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I doubt it. I mean when you put the ice in the glass, you're not really going to be controlling the temperature where it needs to be controlled... the glass and surrounding air. If you succeed in raising the temperature of the glass and air around it, then you're just going to melt the ice faster. Seems like this is more of a problem than the condensation.

Dehumidification doesn't have this problem.

If you happen to have a few hundred silica gel sachets lying around, that should help keep humidity under control.

Another solution is to replace the ice with potassium.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I doubt it. I mean when you put the ice in the glass, you're not really going to be controlling the temperature where it needs to be controlled... the glass and surrounding air. If you succeed in raising the temperature of the glass and air around it, then you're just going to melt the ice faster. Seems like this is more of a problem than the condensation.

Dehumidification doesn't have this problem.

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The effect happens quite quickly, much more so than the ice getting even close to completely melted.

Ong is basically right about the shoe-tying in principle. One or both hands learned how to tie a shoe better while in a particular postural configuration.* More of a question about motor control than physics though since there's nothing inherently in a left or right shoe that makes it harder to tie.

Either that or banana had a stroke.

* Or more aptly, the neural regions controlling the hand, since the hand itself is just the mechanical part of the system.

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Originally Posted by Savy

The effect happens quite quickly, much more so than the ice getting even close to completely melted.

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Warmer air = warmer glass so heating the air will definitely reduce the condensation, but I really can't see it doing as good a job as the dehumidifier.

Another thing you could do is the increase the pressure in the room, I think that will inhibit condensation.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Warmer air = warmer glass so heating the air will definitely reduce the condensation, but I really can't see it doing as good a job as the dehumidifier.

Another thing you could do is the increase the pressure in the room, I think that will inhibit condensation.

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You're not very good at finding reasonable engineering solutions to problems. For example put a bit of blue-tack on your coaster solves the majority of this problem much cheaper and easier than anything you've suggested.

Seal the room and have a huge motherfucker of a fan controlling an "air in" vent, while making sure as little air as possible can leave the room. When pressure is so great that you're feeling dizzy, put the ice in the glass and see if condensation forms.

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Originally Posted by Savy

You're not very good at finding reasonable engineering solutions to problems.

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I'm good at finding ridiculous solutions though. Maybe I'll accidentally inspire you to figure out a practical solution.

Ok I have a cheap solution... when you're putting the ice in the glass, make sure you're got a fan blowing directly at it. This will ensure that any evaporation that takes place will not saturate the air around the glass, as the air is moving. It might be possible to have the condensation evaporate almost as quickly as it formed, which would at least mean it isn't running down the glass and getting the coaster wet. If the air isn't moving around the glass, then the water droplets will evaporate slower, because the RH of the surrounding air is increasing as evaporation takes place.

So yeah, blowing the glass might be enough, but a fan would be much better.

Whilst that may work (I've no idea) it still isn't a good practical solution. Every time I want a drink with ice in it fuck about finding a fan, letting it blow cold air. Nah.

Also thick enough kitchen towel instead of or on top of a coaster also solves the problem much easier than that.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Another solution is to replace the ice with potassium.

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This, actually, is the best solution. Instead of cooling the drink, you're heating it, so condensation won't happen. It's also fun to watch.

The coaster might still get wet if the glass breaks though, which is quite possible, especially if the potassium is the same size as the ice. Eye protection would be advised.

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Originally Posted by Savy

Also thick enough kitchen towel instead of or on top of a coaster also solves the problem much easier than that.

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Yeah but this is messy and more annoying than simply having a wet coaster stick to the bottom of the glass when I pick it up.

Ok, well keep your windows open. That's a free solution that will keep humidity low, perhaps low enough to eliminate condensation when you put ice in the drink. I assume it's warm enough to have the windows open if it's warm enough to have ice in your drink. If you're one of these morons who has ice in drinks in winter, then I don't care about your humidity problems to be quite honest. I hope you have a mouldy bathroom.

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Originally Posted by Savy

I like putting ice in my drinks and this causes the outside of the glass to get wet. This in turn makes the coaster that I use stick to the bottom of the glass when I pick it up creating a whole shit tonne of issues. Solutions to stop this happening?

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Let's take a closer look at what's going on.

The cool cup causes the water vapor in the air to condense, transferring heat energy to the glass, and thus your drink. Those condensed molecules are still being bombarded by other molecules in the air, and every collision statistically tends to average out the temperature of the things which collide. They're also still transferring energy to your drink, so some balance is reached, where some evaporation is happening and some condensation is happening as the energy of the environment is transferred into your cool drink, forcing its temperature to tend toward that of the ambient temperature. Neat, huh?

The problem isn't really due to the condensation causing water to collect into macroscopic drops on the outside of the glass. It's really due to the capillary effect of the water being pulled into the thin space where your cup meets the table (and gravity pulling the drops toward that space accelerates this). This quickly fills the circular space and creates an air tight seal. When you pick up the cup, the air can't get in-between the cup and the coaster, so... the coaster goes with the cup.

One solution is to change the environment.
You could try pointing a small fan (like computer fan small) at your drink to accelerate the re-evaporation of the water. Maybe a hair dryer. A dehumidifier in the room is going to create a lot of heat, in my experience. The double punch of heat and dry air could well keep your glass dry on the outside. Your ice will last about 10 minutes and you'll be sweating balls, but you'll have a dry glass.

A better solution is to prevent that circular seal from forming in the first place.
The way to do this is to break the geometry.

We can break the geometry of the cups, but only on the cups we own. To wit:
On plenty of cups, the bottom ring isn't complete. There's a divot in the ring, where it doesn't form a complete loop when it touches the coaster / table / etc. Buy these when you acquire new cups and glasses.

If you're out using someone else's cups and glasses, or don't want to replace the cups and glasses you already have, then change the geometry of the coaster. Try to break the plane where your glass meets the coaster.
Maybe put a toothpick under one side of the glass, so it sits unevenly. Maybe put 2 coasters with a small gap in between them and put your drink over the gap. I haven't tried it so do the science on this and report back.
It's prob not expensive to find a coaster set which has indents on the surface which solve this problem.

Did Tom Brady do it?

Scientifically speaking, how likely is it that the 'ideal gas law' resulted in deflating footballs before 2014 AFC Championship game.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Scientifically speaking, how likely is it that the 'ideal gas law' resulted in deflating footballs before 2014 AFC Championship game.

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Not ideal.

#bestsciencejoke2k17

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Yeah but this is messy and more annoying than simply having a wet coaster stick to the bottom of the glass when I pick it up.

Ok, well keep your windows open. That's a free solution that will keep humidity low, perhaps low enough to eliminate condensation when you put ice in the drink. I assume it's warm enough to have the windows open if it's warm enough to have ice in your drink. If you're one of these morons who has ice in drinks in winter, then I don't care about your humidity problems to be quite honest. I hope you have a mouldy bathroom.

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Here is the clever bit, enough kitchen roll so that the bottom piece doens't become wet then you just pick up that bottom bit and magic easy to clean up. Still both my solutions aren't even close to solving the problem just much easier lazy ways to deal with it.

I usually have my window open, I like my room being quite cold.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

If you're out using someone else's cups and glasses, or don't want to replace the cups and glasses you already have, then change the geometry of the coaster. Try to break the plane where your glass meets the coaster.
Maybe put a toothpick under one side of the glass, so it sits unevenly. Maybe put 2 coasters with a small gap in between them and put your drink over the gap. I haven't tried it so do the science on this and report back.
It's prob not expensive to find a coaster set which has indents on the surface which solve this problem.

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This is fucking genius and what I wanted, thanks. I mean the toothpick bit isn't that's going to result in split drinks the two coasters however is.

pfft geometry. I'd have got to that solution perhaps after another four or five spliffs.

Please replace the ice with potassium.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Scientifically speaking, how likely is it that the 'ideal gas law' resulted in deflating footballs before 2014 AFC Championship game.

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Quite likely.

Historically, the story goes back to Archimedes of Syracuse ca 250 BCE. He studied buoyancy and density for the first time in recorded western history.

Jump forward 1850 years to Gallileo (ca 1600), who demonstrated that changes in temperature of a fluid cause it to change its density, too.

Then another 50 years or so to Pascal and Boyle (ca 1650) demonstrating that force equals pressure times area and that the pressure times the volume of a closed system is constant.

Then about 1800 it all takes off. Charles Law (1787) that volume over temperature is a constant. About the same time Avogadro did his seminal work in chemistry and told us his namesake number, 6.022(10)^23. In 1809 Gay-Lussac showed that pressure over temperature of a closed system is also constant.

Then a 35 year old in 1834 named Emil Clapeyron was all, "lolz, PV = nRT, ya noobs. Get gud."

This is all pretty well documented, too. In famous old books that people been talking about for centuries in other books.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Please replace the ice with potassium.

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I'm not going to drink enough tonight to do this but I was going to put a banana in a glass and post a picture. Imagine how funny that would have been.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Quite likely.

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Fuck off. Tom Brady did that shit.

If it's so likely, how come balls being under-inflated wasn't a problem for the previous 90 something years in the NFL? There were other games played on cold days

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Originally Posted by Savy

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2573/4...865e5352_b.jpg

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FYP.

with a 10 sec google search.

noob. get gud.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

FYP.

with a 10 sec google search.

noob. get gud.

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You're american, I think that is the only way I can describe why you think that'd be adequate.

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Originally Posted by Savy

I'm not going to drink enough tonight to do this but I was going to put a banana in a glass and post a picture. Imagine how funny that would have been.

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It would've made me smile, but not nearly as much as I would if you uploaded a video of you putting ice-cube sized chunks of potassium in a glass of water.

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You're american, I think that is the only way I can describe why you think that'd be adequate.

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I find it amusing that in the states, they have ten gallons of soda and a wheelbarrow of popcorn to watch a film, but for healthy eating they have diddy little bananas that fit inside pint glasses.

I get the feeling that the water is making the banana look bigger than it actually is. And it still looks tiny compared to what I have for bedtime, I mean healthy snacks.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Ong is basically right about the shoe-tying in principle. One or both hands learned how to tie a shoe better while in a particular postural configuration.* More of a question about motor control than physics though since there's nothing inherently in a left or right shoe that makes it harder to tie.

Either that or banana had a stroke.

* Or more aptly, the neural regions controlling the hand, since the hand itself is just the mechanical part of the system.

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Obv has nothing to do with hand strength. This phenomenom is caused by coriolis force. Banana ties an identical knot on both shoes, which means on one shoe the direction of the knot is aligned with the direction of the force exerted by walking, and on the other it's not. QED.

cocco might have nailed it.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

cocco might have nailed it.

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Doesn't each foot have to be moving in the opposite direction for that to work? I dunno about anyone else, but last I checked that's not what happens when you walk.

But hey, don't let reason dissuade you from the chance to turn down a Nobel Prize

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Doesn't each foot have to be moving in the opposite direction for that to work? I dunno about anyone else, but last I checked that's not what happens when you walk.

But hey, don't let reason dissuade you from the chance to turn down a Nobel Prize

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No, you just need one foot to be more "north" than the other, meaning different rates of rotation around the earth's axis.

Also, this is cocco's nobel prize. I'm not taking this away from him.

This is a great suggestion because while it's obviously not the reason why banana is having lace problems, coriolis will indeed have a fractional impact on our results. If we're walking in a westerly direction, our right foot is more "north" than our left. The ground underneath the left foot is rotating faster than the ground underneath the right, but both our feet are attached to one body and are rotating at the same rate. This means the right foot (the more northerly one) has more rotational energy than the ground underneath it, and might, over the course of a lifetime, mean you have to tie up your right lace one or two times more than your left.

The problem with this is that over the course of a lifetime, and on average, one imagines that neither of our feet will be more northerly than the other. Of course, perhaps banana walks west to work, then gets the bus back because he can't wait to get back home to inject some heroin. This would mean, on average, the right foot is more northerly than the left. So coriolis could have the most fracional of influences, in theory.

Tides probably play a fractional role, too.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Doesn't each foot have to be moving in the opposite direction for that to work? I dunno about anyone else, but last I checked that's not what happens when you walk.

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Walking is when you swing your legs in an opposing pendular fashion and oscillate your hips so that you transfer weight to the "backward" moving leg on each legs swing cycle, so that your CG moves forward.

Your legs are always moving in opposite directions relative to each other, or stationary w.r.t each other when you're walking.

I mean. Your point still works because when your right leg is moving forward you have angular momentum one way, but when your left leg is moving forward, you have angular momentum the other way, so on average, the net angular momentum is 0 kgm^2/s... unless you always twirl in circles when you walk, which would be entertaining, but socially awkward, I imagine.

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In inertial reference frames, so long as 2 objects are changing their position relative to each other, then there is (are) some reference frame(s) in which those objects are moving in opposite directions (at least along the line which connects their CG's).

If we allow for relativistic and accelerating reference frames, then whether or not any 2 objects are moving w.r.t. each other is a matter of perspective. So the matter that objects which are not moving w.r.t. each other are never moving in opposite directions doesn't even hold.

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Originally Posted by CoccoBill

Obv has nothing to do with hand strength. This phenomenom is caused by coriolis force. Banana ties an identical knot on both shoes, which means on one shoe the direction of the knot is aligned with the direction of the force exerted by walking, and on the other it's not. QED.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Also, this is cocco's nobel prize. I'm not taking this away from him.

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Coco said QED - Quod Erat Demonstrandum - as it has been demonstrated - but he didn't actually demonstrate anything.

This is bound to piss off the Nobel committee.

Better fix that prior to official publication.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

then gets the bus back because he can't wait to get back home to inject some heroin.

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I shoot heroin ON the bus. Duh!

My proof's being audited by the feds, they'll just have to take my word for it.

In all seriousness, I bet banana ties a proper knot in one shoe and a granny knot in the other.

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Originally Posted by CoccoBill

My proof's being audited by the feds, they'll just have to take my word for it.

In all seriousness, I bet banana ties a proper knot in one shoe and a granny knot in the other.

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Actually plausible, but goes against my expectation for human learning and conscious involvement in mundane tasks.
(I'm basically the opposite of an expert on this subject, though, so grain of salt.)

I'd think that the physical, tactile process of tying the laces is practically identical for both shoes. Muscle memory has nothing to do with your muscles storing memories, but it's still a cheat that the brain uses to avoid thinking about stuff. Why bother putting conscious thought into tying your shoes when your subconscious can repeat rote tasks w/o much effort at all? Why try to re-invent the knot when knowing that yesterday's knot was good enough and so long as your fingers feel the same feedback in the process of recreating that knot, no conscious effort required.

It's fully possible that bananananana was taught to tie his shoelaces in a non-congruent fashion, though.

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The point about tying pro knots and not noob knots is a worthy question, though.

Are you trying doubly-slipped square knots? or doubly-slipped granny knots?

The granny knot has less hold and is prone to coming loose due to vibrations.

On what planet does a parent teach their child to tie two different knots in their two shoes? Gtfo with that theory.

We need some video of bananaman tying his laces so we can subject it to kinematic analysis.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

On what planet does a parent teach their child to tie two different knots in their two shoes? Gtfo with that theory.

We need some video of bananaman tying his laces so we can subject it to kinematic analysis.

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It could be a matter of poor tequinique when teaching. Granny knots and square knots are similar, it's easy to accidentally tie a granny knot when trying to make a square knot. That said, it's possible that one shoe has a granny knot, and the other square, due to improper tying tequnique which was taught from a young age by accident. It's certainly plausible.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Coco said QED - Quod Erat Demonstrandum - as it has been demonstrated - but he didn't actually demonstrate anything.

This is bound to piss off the Nobel committee.

Better fix that prior to official publication.

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Those stiffs probably don't even know what QED means and just think it's a qualification, like "hey I'm a professor" so they go "ok he knows his stuff, we'll believe him".

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

I shoot heroin ON the bus. Duh!

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Are you from my town?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

It could be a matter of poor tequinique when teaching. Granny knots and square knots are similar, it's easy to accidentally tie a granny knot when trying to make a square knot. That said, it's possible that one shoe has a granny knot, and the other square, due to improper tying tequnique which was taught from a young age by accident. It's certainly plausible.

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Doesn't almost everyone use the knot in this video? In my childhood, Granny knots or square knots were only used by kids too uncoordinated to do it the easy way. The same kids who were the last to get picked for your team in gym class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-xaJrao1w


Waiting for video of bananaman tying a sheep shank in his left shoe and a square hitch in his right.

That's how I do mine, but mojo started going on about granny knots and square knots, so I figured I was making one of those knots, and wasn't sure which.

He was probably one of those uncoordinated kids and just assumes everyone else does it that way too lol.

There was a real nice guy who worked IT in our department who was thinking about buying a motorcycle. I heard about it and told him 'You're barely coordinated enough to walk, if you try to ride a motorcycle you will probably die on the first ride.' He never got one. I like to think I saved his life.

True story.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Doesn't almost everyone use the knot in this video?

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I use that knot, but I tie it in a more tedious way. That technique is familiar to me, but not worth the mental effort to re-train myself.

The trouble is that this is a doubly slipped square knot, but if you switch which loose end is forward and backward when you set up for the final pull to create and cinch the knot, then you have a doubly slipped granny knot. They look basically the same when you're done, but the granny knot is more prone to loosening.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

In my childhood, Granny knots or square knots were only used by kids too uncoordinated to do it the easy way.

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I'm not sure you and I are talking about the same thing. The level of coordination is exactly the same for both knots. The only difference is the symmetry of the 2 steps in making the knot.
The first step is the 1/2 hitch under the bow-knot. If that is NOT a mirror image of the bow-knot, then you have a granny knot. If it is a mirror image, then a square.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

The same kids who were the last to get picked for your team in gym class.

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Hey! That was me, you jerk.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

That's how I do mine, but mojo started going on about granny knots and square knots, so I figured I was making one of those knots, and wasn't sure which.

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He tied a doubly slipped square knot. So I figure you are making "one of those knots."

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

He was probably one of those uncoordinated kids and just assumes everyone else does it that way too lol.

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Your face is uncoordinated!

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

...

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You know way too much about knots. I'm not surprised you were chosen last in gym class. ;)

The bow is the hardest part of the knot to do. If one were a clumsy kid they first tied the basic bow knot (poorly), then took the two loops of the bow and tied another knot using them. Then when they got home they got their mom to untie it for them 'cause it was pretty much impossible to do it yourself.

I remember one kid showing it to me like it was the greatest thing in the world. So I tried it and went wtf this kid's an idiot.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

The trouble is that this is a doubly slipped square knot, but if you switch which loose end is forward and backward when you set up for the final pull to create and cinch the knot, then you have a doubly slipped granny knot. They look basically the same when you're done, but the granny knot is more prone to loosening.

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So ok if I tie my shoes the normal way i first pass the right lace over the left to make the hitch part, then I make the bow in the left lace, draw the right lace OVER the loop and my thumb, then pull the second bow out through the hole where my thumb is, pull my thumb out with the bow and pull the knot tight.

You're saying a retard would do that with one shoe but replace the OVER movement with an UNDER movement on the other shoe? And then spend the next thirty-odd years wondering why one lace never stays tied up?

I would pay to see that.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

You're saying a retard would do that with one shoe but replace the OVER movement with an UNDER movement on the other shoe? And then spend the next thirty-odd years wondering why one lace never stays tied up?

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Not what I said.
What is it with FTR and misquotes lately?

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Originally Posted by MMM

Actually plausible, but goes against my expectation for human learning and conscious involvement in mundane tasks.
(I'm basically the opposite of an expert on this subject, though, so grain of salt.)

I'd think that the physical, tactile process of tying the laces is practically identical for both shoes. Muscle memory has nothing to do with your muscles storing memories, but it's still a cheat that the brain uses to avoid thinking about stuff. Why bother putting conscious thought into tying your shoes when your subconscious can repeat rote tasks w/o much effort at all? Why try to re-invent the knot when knowing that yesterday's knot was good enough and so long as your fingers feel the same feedback in the process of recreating that knot, no conscious effort required.

It's fully possible that bananananana was taught to tie his shoelaces in a non-congruent fashion, though.

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I said my best hypothesis is NOT the final line, but that the final line is, however improbable, still possible.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

You know way too much about knots. I'm not surprised you were chosen last in gym class. ;)

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But picked first in Boy Scouts, so who's the real loser, now?

Oh yeah... still me.

:(

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Not what I said.
What is it with FTR and misquotes lately?

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Sorry I got your words mixed up with coco's theory.

Clueless, all of you.

I just figured it out

It's because i drive with my right foot.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Clueless, all of you.

I just figured it out

It's because i drive with my right foot.

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How many years you been driving?

You guys drive backwards to us. So you'll have accelerator, brake, clutch. Your right foot should be next to the clutch, while your left foot does the accelerating and braking. Your left foot should be doing more work, so if your right lace is coming undone more, you probably have a fucked clutch and need to get that fixed.

I don't drive, but I can figure out what's wrong with your car based on shoelaces. How am I not famous?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

You guys drive backwards to us. So you'll have accelerator, brake, clutch. Your right foot should be next to the clutch, while your left foot does the accelerating and braking. Your left foot should be doing more work, so if your right lace is coming undone more, you probably have a fucked clutch and need to get that fixed.

I don't drive, but I can figure out what's wrong with your car based on shoelaces. How am I not famous?

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The pedals are still in the same position - right foot is gas or velocirator or whatever people call it here.

Most people in N. A. drive an automatic - no clutch. Though I can see bananaman driving a hummer or tank or something that he uses to run over homeless people and liberals.

Also, if pushing a pedal loosens your laces, you haven't tied them properly, otherwise everyone would have the same problem. Ergo we're back to him being a bad tier-upper.