Surely this isn't that far off a declaration of war!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31049952
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Surely this isn't that far off a declaration of war!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31049952
We're out here trying to function.
Filming him?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Just Putin reminding his friends he's got an active military.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
Yeah I won't pretend to be anything but a distant spectator, but I have a feeling enacting far-left policies is going to destroy Greece, financially at least. Seems like they need to just declare bankruptcy and start from scratch after taking a hatchet to their behemoth of a public sector. The austerity measures were bad in a different direction, but at least the goal was to rein in the runaway spending.
edit: relevant link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ir2UNxSjF8
Light on the deets for which way he's extreme. Too bad. Still not sure if he worked for Newell because he's influenced by market monetarism or if he doesn't work for Newell anymore because he's not influenced by market monetarism. It's probably neitherQuote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
Regardless, Greece can't fix its problems unless it leaves the EUR. But it won't. Fiscal stimulus and austerity do not work because of the monetary offset. Germany controls monetary policy, so as long as the ECB keeps its ridiculously tight monetary regime, Greece will be buried beneath the weight
What's really going to happen is that Germany and the ECB will eventually act non-retardedly (don't hold your breath), and Greece will be the Mississippi of Europe, unable to get much going because of the monetary peg to regions more capable. Granted there are other things Greece can do to get out of that, but those things have rarely been done.
If Greece moves leftward, it will only make things much worse. It isn't that people forget we've already tried left-wing economics, but that people have convinced themselves that historical examples of left-wing economics don't count
It also doesn't spell well for Greece since they (1) have never had that great of civic traditions and (2) what civic traditions they have had are mostly influenced by Roman stoicism, which is one of the foundations for where we got Germany's national socialism and the Bolsheviks' soviet socialism
Greece is too beautiful and too ancient to have a great economy. It could probably be argued that it's still more of a Sophocles Greece than an Adam Smith Greece
Monopolists are what profit from Greece, not free market capitalists. Greece is actually pretty terrible for capitalists. The main reason it's where it is today is because Germany is in charge, and Greece doesn't matter much to it. Protip: Germany is not run by market capitalistsQuote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Democracy is the problem. Implement the majority views of voters and you'll find you live in a national socialist hellhole.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
That's not to say that authoritarianism works better. It doesn't. We need to add to our vocabulary the political system of market capitalism. That's the solution. Allow things to have a value. That's how we've gotten this far, and not doing that is how the USSR collapsed
Apparently Varoufakis has learned a thing or two while working under the Hayekian economics at Valve. Hopefully it isn't just a matter of Newell's brilliance in creating a company that operates as much like a market as possible
That isn't what the UK is like at all just so you're aware.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I'm not sure what part of my statement you're referring to, but yeah the UK is one of the bastions of market ideals in the Europe. It (along with the northwest of continental Europe) is what created the idea. Then the US ran with it. Probably the vast frontier is what allowed market ideals to flourish in the US so well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
Was just trying to make that Ong's opinion is something other than drum circle equivalent
I mean that the uk isn't a national socialist hell hole and if parties did cater to the majority views of voters then it certainly wouldn't be remotely close to socialistic in the current climate.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
If that's true, that's very interesting. In the US, most market-oriented folk are still extremely authoritarian. It goes with the territory when people believe government is where morals go to become law. The difference is sorta like how several US states with people who claim to be avidly anti-government and pro-market passed hefty minimum wage laws by initiative. It's the "elites" in the GOP that have been keeping the regular folk from screwing themselves on this sort of thing. If the people of Arkansas truly had their way, they would become national socialists. They'd never see it coming until it's too lateQuote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
I'm applying this logic loosely to my own lack of financial savvy.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
That is a great philosophy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-t...yt-cl=85027636
some wufugy porn
Some women are horrible at blowjobs, Ive had it happen that I just had to stop them but most women are decent enough. The girl Im mainly seeing now is really good at it. A woman from back home told me last year that shed hold bj marathons and just suck her bf off for hours on end. Her record was something like 8 hours. I told this to my girl to warm her up to the idea. When I got around to watching The Interview, she gave me a bj through half of it. Probably made me like the movie more than it should.
Definitely. And Tsipras looks to be a really sharp guy, he already announced his first move: to do away with All In hotels to make sure tourist proceedings go to the locals. I can applaud this although the capitalists will not like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
How I have identified the problem through my own observations and talking about it with many people is this: there is a fundamental difference in how southern european countries (spain, italy, greece) conduct their business compared to northern european ones. In the South they base much more value on personal relationships. If you do business with someone from there, theyll want to meet you, see if you can be trusted and then theyll deal. Northern euope is much more pragmatic in comparison. The reasons for this difference are a combination of culture and genetics (these two go hand in hand). The downside of favoring relations is that efficiency suffers. Relatives are favored over others instead of picking the most competent person. And if you need to pass by and grease a few people every time you need to get something done, then you get the kind the corruption that has brought southern europe to the problems it is currently in. If you need more proof of the difference between relational thinkers and pragmatic thinkers, just compare North America (US) with its northern european descendants and South America with its southern european (spanish) descendants. Which is more efficient at organizing in a way that gets things done?
What this basically means is that there isnt an easy fix. The northern european capitalists arent going to be very forgiving towards what they perceive as e wasteful mis-management from the south. But I do believe it can be handled a lot better than it is now and that Tsipras is a step forward towards making things better for the Greeks.
Facebook makes me want to throw stale bread at my monitor
Female Japanese Wrassling
http://i.imgur.com/1YtFOAG.gif
http://i.imgur.com/8p7oW8J.gif
http://i.imgur.com/Melh6NF.gif
The gender wars are as good as won. Nothing else has the power to unite feminists and misogynists together. It's empowering women, yes, to beat the shit out of women, oh yes.
Great description of one of the differences between Mediterranean Europe and the northQuote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I'm pretty sure that doing away with All In Resorts will do nothing positive for the locals. This sort of action is inherently no different than protectionism, tariffs, wage floors, etc. Distribution of capital mostly doesn't matter because of things like investment being the same as delayed consumption. Change in capital distributions are positive when they lower the cost of doing business or when they increase the quality of products/services
From the sounds of it, prohibition of All In Resorts is one of those millions of examples of things voters like the sound of, but are really just economy-deteriorating central command supported based on "common sense" values instead of serious economics
probably majoring in financial mathematics at plu. not sure yet but probably. will be the hardest endeavor ive ever done. not the hardest thing (since "thing" can mean anything), but definitely the hardest accomplishment. then i'll move into actuary, for which passing the exams will become the new hardest endeavor of my life
kinda wish i could have come to this path earlier in life, but what's done is done
Fucking slay it dog.
The quickest route to finding a passion is getting good at something.
Financial mathematics sounds like some hand wavy bullshit to me.
yeah me too. it's mostly an attempt to move academics into actuaryQuote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
for the longest time, actuaries came from unrelated fields (math, engineer, econ, finance, even history or whatever), but now there are some new rules by the societies and the universities are trying to play to them, which means that there are several non-major classes needed for actuarial accreditation. i would prefer to do a bachelors of science in math, but if i did that i would have to go back and take a few other classes at a later date
financial mathematics at plu is basically just applied math for actuary or other corporate fields. it's math/stat/finance without the theory classes. id rather take theory classes since my weakest link is conceptual math and i can learn whatever business/econ stuff i need to on my own, but whatever
plu's a great school too. a finmath degree won't be a limiting factor for actuary
thanks. it's pretty crazy how hard calculus has been for me, but i actually enjoy learning it. it's for all sorts of weird reasons, like it gives me a great sense of accomplishment that i dont get from easy stuff like humanities/social sciences and that it's very specific, directional, and usefulQuote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
math has always been one of my biggest weaknesses, and it took me quite a while to decide that i want to turn it into a strength (or that i even can)
I was just playing, have fun with it. If you need any help with anything feel free to send me a PM although I'm sure there are better qualified people to help if you need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
thanks
if anybody has any good resources for higher level math, feel free to post them. i kinda have to abuse my professors' and tutors' time on this stuff, and it will only get harder at differential equations and beyond. all i know of now is mathispower4u and khan, but those dont go much beyond calculus
The trick with a lot of maths is abuse libraries. You want to find good books about the subject you are looking at and you want to go over them multiple times. The lower the topic is the easier it is to find good books with lots of examples and fairly strong method based stuff.
And then eventuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
http://www.fisicateorica.me/reposito...entar/mch2.pdf (You won't understand the symbols, but they're just fancier versions of the basics) edit: Can't find the pdfs but also Methods of Mathematical Physics.
It all follows.
Then you can just read random-ass essays from great mathematicians. Shit never ends.
https://archive.org/details/TheWorld...ematicsVolume4
Waves and Oscillations by Smith great for another sort of useful math.
thanks. kinda blows my mind that such an advanced level of understanding abstractions exists
Math is about setting down rules and fastidiously following them as far as they go.
The study is thick and rich.
While I'm nerding out, I was having a conversation at work about the least healthy nut. I thought it was the cashew for some vague reason probably relating to it being so easy to eat and poisonous if not prepared but it turns out its the peanut, which isn't really a nut but a legume.
Which made me wonder why legumes were unhealthy, which lead me to paleo, which eventually lead me to this really interesting convo.
http://chriskresser.com/rhr-what-sci...th-mat-lalonde
Good luck wuf sounds like something that suits you. I have two pieces of advice for you. First, the most important thing is to not get discouraged when it seems like you dont get any of it. Getting this sort of stuff is a long term process which has a lot of aha moments which further your knowledge but also create more questions than they provides answers. The end result is that you get good at it but the path is shaky, you must realize and expect this. And youll mainly want to just study for passing the exams like everyone does. Second, this is probably the best time to be taking such a class because the internet has become a huge repository of knowledge and you can find answers in a lot of places if you look around.And talk to everyone you can about it. Nothing cements knowledge in your head better than hearing it from other people.
That's a great link. Pretty advanced, though... post Diff.Eq.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Definitely learn vibrations and waves (linear vibrations - L.vibes)first.
L.Vibes is excellent because, in general, you get to see how springs work. Springs are fun to play with and most people 'get' them.
The reason it's so wonderful is because the equations which describe waves are identical in form to the equations of heat transfer, electromagnetism, fluid dynamics, quantum mechanics, etc.
If there is a language of the universe, it's Second Order Partial Differential Equations.
Understanding wave mechanics allows you to approach these forms of equations with easy-to-visualize examples.
***
Matrix mathematics is another hugely important, time-saving set of tools.
You will need at least a little bit of it to understand eigenvalues and eigenfunctions.
thanks. good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I'm not really going to give this its own thread, but it might need it since it's something that's bothering me more than I think it should.
I've got this dude I'll call D who I've known since we were really early in elementary school, so probably about 25 years. We were really good friends growing up, and though we'd spend long times not seeing each other, we'd usually end up hanging out and catching up or whatever.
I think D's fundamentally a good guy, but he's also fundamentally weak as a person too without much of a drive to achieve much of shit. He's also pretty weak with women. Despite me trying to give him the game for the better part of a decade, I pretty much gave up after some shit happened last summer.
Skipping a lot of history and trying to keep this short, D was on a period of somewhere in the range of 18-24 months without a job after his first failed marriage where he willingly married one of the biggest whores in the county who then cheated on him with a co-worker at Walmart, got knocked up and left him. He lived with his mom, played World of Warcraft, slept, and that was about it during this time.
At some point, he meets some girl online (through World of Warcraft possibly) and sells some video games or something to get the gas money to drive out and see her (from southern North Carolina to southern Louisiana). He fucks her the first time he meets her, stays around for a few days, and comes back home.
However long later, call it a month or two, she informs him that she's pregnant and that it's his. They decide to get married and raise the kid.
For a little while, he gets a job making $10/hour or whatever and between that and his mom's Social Security shit, they manage to all three live together and get by. His now wife gets a settlement in the range of $150,000 for some shit over her dad's death, and they use that to buy a house and supplement their income until it runs out.
Shit goes cool for about a year or two, but after the money from the settlement runs out, it doesn't take long before he gets fired for running his mouth and showing up late to work. After that, he just sort of quits even looking for a job. Meanwhile, his wife works second shift at this gas station/sandwich shop kind of place.
The wife normally gets home around 11-12 at night, but starts coming in later and later with all the normal excuses. My dude finds out she's straight-up cheating on him with this fat neckbeard coworker, and they're just clowning his ass on Facebook, Instagram and whatever else posting pictures of the two of them together (wife and neckbeard), telling each other "I love you" and all that.
I do some investigating with D and confirm that all of this is really going down, find out where the dude lives, confirm that's where she's going and whatever. She ends up moving out of their house, and he pretty much has an abandonment case wrapped up in a fucking bow where all he's got to do is divorce her ass and he'll get the house and the kid.
About two or three weeks after she moves out, she wants to come back. Surprise surprise, she's knocked up by the neckbeard.
D took her back and was flipping out talking about wanting to just move out of the state or something and start a new life somewhere with the wife and the kids and his mom where nobody knew him because of his embarrassment over his wife getting ready to have a half-Mexican kid that will very obviously not be his.
This was just all I could take, and after he took her back, I've just refused to go over there or really talk to him that much. I've tried and tried to help the guy for a long time, and whatever tiny level of respect I had left for him was just all the way out the fucking window with all of this.
I'm not even sure what my point is here but goddamn. Some people think I'm fucked up for blowing this guy off over this, but I don't. The guy's like written the playbook on being a fucking loser as a man and just making sure that nobody has any reason to respect him ever ughhhh.
spoon does not want the d
Get up off D's nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
http://i.imgur.com/ph5PgpB.jpg?1
#Disappointinglinebreaks
People hang on to relationships for too long. Some people even get contracts that say things will be much worse for everyone for a while after they break up, and everyone's charmed by the romanticism. Everyone's too concerned with fixing things that they forget that you can just throw things away and get new things instead.
I have thought this several times while reading your posts: you should write a humor book. The metaphors and descriptions you use are fantastic for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Thanks! That's the best compliment I got in a while. <3
I love Stephen Fry. So clearly on point.
Awesome. Who's the other guy? His expressions make it seem like Fry is saying this to a most devoted discipleQuote:
Originally Posted by kingnat
Not an Addict by Ks Choice
Yeah Bill Burr is ridiculously good. He's my second-favorite comedian of what I consider modern times behind Patrice O'Neal (rip).
He also has the only podcast that I listen to regularly.
He is amazingly good. I don't put him that high, but I do think he doesn't get as many accolades as he deserves. His most recent special on Netflix had me dying.
The bit about people being surprised that old people have the thoughts they do was too good.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
Here's a Bill Burr things I found out about recently. Before he was as known as he is now he was playing to a rough Philly audience that had boo'd the previous two comics off the stage. He came out there and would have none of it, he just tears into the audience and wins them over as a result - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jMhoGUiIkk
Yeah this was super good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
And then this happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYAAy8Q_smU#t=83
Bill Burr's delivery rubs me the wrong way, but his material is solid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGxSzn5DKK4
^^a phenomenal display of aspie-flavored asshattery
That was amusing. Sure, the bummer with the stupid pony tail is a dick, but those two meatheads demanding he gets off, they're even bigger dicks... the kind of power hungry guys who got rejected by the police. This pony tail twat is well within his rights to stand his ground, the inspectors have no authority. As for the gobshite passengers who moan at pony tail, they're directing their frustrations at the wrong people. Those two meatheads, tell them to get the fucking train moving, or you'll be demanding a refund and making a complaint about them bullying a passenger.
um.... lol
dude refused to show his proof of payment because according to him it's unconstitutional for them to ask for it??
the sole person in the wrong there is the dude taking the video. what are the inspectors supposed to do, shrug it off and keep moving? the absolutely do have authority to demand his proof of payment.
i find that video is hilarious bc it's the theater of life (truth is strange than fiction), and i love the phenomenal spectacle he created with his horrific obtusity. you can't fault anyone in that video but him. he dwells miles beyond any line of rationality and logic. he's a complete moron.
if anything their patience is incredibly admirable. he's holding up a whole tram of people on a weekday morning.
he goes around doing this shit incessantly (see: the rest of his youtube page), making life hard for hardworking people based on his completely fallacious notions of what's constitutional. he clearly has some kind of mental problem and needs to do this kind of shit to make himself feel important, it's really sad, but also beyond any bounds of reason.
although one time he did stand up for what was right at burger king, and i really respect him for that
one of my odder past times is watching self-righteous dumbass activists on youtube, and there are varying degrees of hilarity, but this dude is above and beyond any of them.
He's being a twat for sure, but he's within his rights. What are the inspectors supposed to do? Either contact the police, or let it go. That's all they can do, because they don't actually have any authority. They are not police.
Yes he's a moron, I'm not disputing that. But he's not doing anything wrong, he's just going about it all the wrong way. I wouldn't even engage them, I'd just tell them to phone the police if they have a problem, and then play with my phone while ignoring everyone.
he... is doing something wrong. i'm not sure what you mean. he's doing something wrong and they dealt with it in the necessary manner, they did call the police. but it took a lot of time and it held up a lot of people that were trying to get to work, and it was incredibly inconsiderate and obnoxious.
anyway whatever, it's not like he's significant enough to debate over like this. i just think the video is funny as fuck.
I disagree. The inspectors are the ones holding up the train. Either pony tail is breaking the law, and it's a police matter, or he's not, and he's being bullied. There's no in between.Quote:
if anything their patience is incredibly admirable. he's holding up a whole tram of people on a weekday morning.
I think it is significant. What we have here is two people who feel that they have authority, telling a passenger on the train that he must show his card or get off the train. They have no right to force him to do either. The fact they are trying to shows that people like this feel that they have authority when they don't. They are no better than debt collectors, or traffic wardens.
He is breaking the law. It is a police matter. And they needed him to get off the train so he could be dealt with. But he didn't. You're right, there is no in between. I fail to see the in between nature of how this was handled. And no one bullied him. They were being incredibly respectful. No official there raised their voice once at him or said anything out of line. The passengers on the train were more than justified in getting as angry as they did. Again, holding up a train where people are getting to work in the morning because you think you're doing important activist work (when you're actually 100% wrong about literally everything you are saying) is beyond obnoxious.
And the whole time they were trying to get police to come and take care of the matter. There's part 2, 3, and 4 to that video where it ends up getting resolved with the police at the end, who also realize they are dealing with a total nut.
How is it against the law to refuse to show proof of payment to a man with no authority?
How does that guy have no authority?
Because I assume he is not employed by the government, and has not sworn an oath when taking his post. The police have authority. Private sector employees usually don't, although there are probably exceptions, such as private security companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
I admittedly can't answer that so maybe someone with a better understanding of how all that works can jump in and prove one (or both) of us wrong/right.
All i know is:
http://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/.../proof-payment
These are the rules. Part of riding the train is showing the conductor proof of payment. I used to take the Long Island Rail Road daily when I commuted from Long Island to NYC. This is how it works. This is the agreement you enter when you using the service. You can't just not do it.
If you break these rules you need to face proper authority. Which he did. They ended up getting the cops to come and talk to him. But it was a huge painstaking ordeal because of how difficult he was being.
He's obnoxious as hell and making life unnecessarily difficult for everyone around him.
This is why it's significant. People just assume that these people have authority. People are unaware of their rights and just roll over whenchallenged by some meathead with a badge. There's a lot wrong with that. People need to stand up for their rights. The twat in this video is going about it the wrong way, but hell at least he's doing something.
Once the police are involved, he should change his tune very quickly. He should be polite and courteous to the police. If he's not, more fool him. Say hello to a policeman's size 11.Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
You really think these guys are meatheads with badges? And not just people trying to do their job and make sure every traveler is a paying customer, because those are the rules? Literally nothing he did in this video is justifiable.
Besides, again, they did bring the cops into this. How should they have handled this differently?
Ong you're a fucking idiot.
It's settled then.
http://i.imgur.com/dEYx1WX.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Edit: fixed.
Ong you are talking out of your ass. Public transit police have every right. They are employed by the government who owns the public transportation and they are entitled to uphold the rules of the transportation system. If you are breaking the law on the system they will arrest you and be witnesses in court. They are sworn officers of the government but are not police. Contrary to what you and every other hippy dick thinks, public transportation and government buildings, property and equipment are not public places. It is private property.
It's good thing I wasn't on this train or I would have grabbed his little phone, and his pony tail and tossed him off the train hard enough that he would need a dentist and not a police officer.
lol noQuote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
The bold is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Haha you know what's funny? Recently, when I asked for my childish posts to be deleted from your hand thread, spoon suggested that me and you don't get along because we're very much alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
I agree with him. And you. You fucking idiot.
Anyway, my point is that these fucking ticket inspectors are not authority. Anyone who thinks they are, well you're rolling over while your rights are being taken away. I pity you.
You gave them authority when you stepped on the train.
No you fucking didn't. You gave them authority when you convinced yourself that stepping on the train gives them authority.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
That's like saying you give me authority when you step in my house.
If you have clear rules (that are within the law) on what's acceptable in your house and I enter your house and break them you have the authority to forcibly remove me. It's not that different.
wufwugy where art thou???!!!!
Ong I'm sincerely baffled by your position. I don't think you're a fucking idiot but I'm honestly stunned. The conductor's job is to make sure all travelers have paid. The dude in this video is under the impression that their job is illegal. Do you think it is illegal to see proof of payment? Do you understand that it's not as though he was randomly singled out to do something that no one else was? It's the clear rules of a private organization. If you enter a store and you want an item, you have to pay for it at the register. If you try to walk out with it, they have the authority to stop you and bring the police if need be. To ride on the train without paying for it is essentially stealing the service.
I honestly don't get how you think this is some kind of breach of civil liberty. You're using a service. You buy tickets in order to show the conductor -- that's the entire reason you buy them in the first place. It's like using a Metrocard in the subway. You have to swipe the metrocard to get through. In this case, instead of swiping your metrocard, you show the conductor the ticket.
If you're going to see a concert, there are people at the threshold to check your ticket. Should you be allowed to simply stroll through without showing your ticket? Should they just take your word for it that you bought the ticket? No, right?
When I flew to Santa Fe, did I have the right to not show my ticket when going through the gate?
The analog examples are endless...
Oh come on, he is at least a bit of an idiot.
I don't dislike you.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
I guess I have more of a problem with people who think they have authority than I have with twats who want to cause a scene.
Let me be clear about my position. These inspectors are not being unreasonable in asking to see his ticket. They are being unreasonable when they refuse to get the train moving and tell him he is holding up the train. He's not... they are, and they are attempting to use peer pressure to bully him into doing something which he sees as an infringement of his civil liberties, which, technically, it is. I don't know why he chose a this situation to make his point, it seems petty. But he is challenging their authority, and he is right to do so because they are not the police. He doesn't have to do what they demand. He has paid his fare and has the right to travel in peace, and they are interfering with his peaceful journey. He's being a twat, yes. But I can see where he's coming from, because I have a problem with people like this meathead who think they have authority over the average person. They fucking don't, they are not the police.
We don't get along though. We bicker like bitches.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
No. It's not an infringement of his civil liberties. He HAS to show it to them. Those are the rules of this service. He does not have the right to travel in peace if he can't follow the basic rules of the service he is using to travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Again, it's not enough for me to simply just buy a plane ticket. I have to have the ticket on me and show it to the people at the gate when I go to the airport. I do not have the right to just peacefully amble onto any plane I want and act like my liberties are being infringed upon because they want to see my ticket.
What peer pressure? Bullying? It's. Their. JOB. They have to make sure everyone is a paying customer! He's refusing to abide by the rules that every single other person using this service follows because that's what you do when you use a service of a private organization. You follow their rules.
They held up the train because they needed him to get off and be dealt with. You cannot have someone using your service if they cannot follow the basic rules that keep the service functioning properly.
Its kinda like people taking the weed you'll sell them when you start your drug dealing business and not paying.
http://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/.../proof-payment
Quote:
If you already have a valid paper pass or Muni Passport:
You must show your valid evidence of payment of the appropriate fare to the conductor on request.
Quote:
HOW IS PROOF OF PAYMENT POLICY ENFORCED? WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES FOR NOT HAVING PROOF OF PAYMENT?
Muni Transit Fare Inspectors may ask you for Proof of Payment on board any Muni rail line or bus route, or in the paid area of Muni Metro subway stations between the Embarcadero and West Portal stations.
If you are traveling without valid Proof of Payment you may be removed from the vehicle and issued a fine of more than $100.
btw muni means cunt in greek and this dude is being a real cunt
No he doesn't. He is free to choose to not do so, and he is free to remain where he is seated. You're talking about rules. I'm talking about law. Their rules are not law. I think this is the key difference in our positions.Quote:
He HAS to show it to them.
He has to show them if he wants to freely and peacefully use their service.
And you haven't commented on any of my analog examples, like attending a concert or traveling on a plane.
Also I am entirely unconvinced that the law has no bearing on this. Stealing is against the law. If you don't show your proof of payment you've essentially stolen the service they are providing you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fare_evasion
Seriously dude, this is common sense. You can't evade paying for services. A private organization has every right to ensure that their services are not being stolen. What these inspectors cannot do is use force or arrest the fare dodgers themselves which, hey, guess what -- they didn't. They took proper measures and brought him to the police who do have the authority to use force and apprehend.Quote:
Fare evasion, as distinct from fare avoidance, is the act of travelling on public transport in disregard of the law and/or regulation, having deliberately not purchased the required ticket to travel (having had the chance to do so). It is a problem in many parts of the world, and revenue protection officers operate on many systems. Often ticket barriers, manned or automatic, are in place at stations etc., to ensure only those with valid tickets may access the transport.
Fare evasion and fare fraud is generally a crime in most jurisdictions. The fare not paid, compared to potential penalties and hassle, is generally considered “not worth it”.[1][2]
Anyway, this is the last I'm going to say on this. If you still think it's justifiable, whatever. I'm starting to feel very Special Olympics right now, lol.
Well if you think private company rules trump civil liberties, good for you.
Planes and concerts... well, planes are a completely different ball game. We don't have any civil liberties on a plane. You play by their rules or risk prison. Whether or not that's justified is a different argument, but it's not one I feel strongly about, because of the risk of hijack. I'm happy to play by their rules on a plane, and I'm happy for them to enforce their rules. Concerts, well they search you when they go in; if you refuse, they are not legally obliged to let you walk past them. On a train, they allow people to just walk on or off, relying on people's honesty and the work of meatheads enforcing payment from those who don't buy in advance.
Maybe they should make sure that people can't board trains without proving they have paid... such as swipe barriers. Or they should just issue him with a new ticket and request payment, or proof of purchase. If he refuses both, well that's when they contact police, saying they have a possible fare dodger, and leave him to sit there like a twat while they ask others for their tickets.
They do not need to keep other people waiting, while loudly saying that he's holding up the train by refusing to budge. That is bullying by means of peer pressure, and is not a professional way of dealing with such twattery. That's why these guys didn't become cops... because they don't know how to rationally deal with situations like this.
I understand why he's not getting much sympathy... he's a fucking tool. But telling these guys to basically fuck off is not as big a problem for me as the implied authority that these people have.
Also, with planes, their rules are clearly cemented in law. So it's not "their rules", it's hard law.
Keep in mind that OngBonga is a self-admitted freeloader who cares nothing about being productive or trying to make a living for himself.
Not that I have a problem with that in and of itself, but it definitely affects his perspective in this discussion.