*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

No such thing.

You can not name an occupation in America that is not staffed, in the vast majority, by American citizens. The notion that "immigrants do the jobs American's don't want to do" is demagogue bullshit purveyed by the left to justify open border policies. It's a scare tactic. They want you to worry yourself sick about "who's gonna mow the lawn??"

A god damn 12 year old will mow the lawn, ok. Tell him to put down the fucking X-box and get his ass outside.

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You are completely correct in your criticism here. To add to that, when we covered this in my labor economics class, my professor was pretty clear when he said it's not true that somebody "won't do that job", what is instead true is somebody "won't do that job for that price." This then raises the question why they won't do that job for that price.

I don't really want to get into that, though. You were discussing how the labor at your casino is shitty because the laborers are going to bigger and better jobs. A lot of those jobs being left are ones that include a lot of work done by illegal alien labor, which has been drying up since Trump. There is a way to transform the economy so that illegal aliens don't make up any important part of the labor supply. I just wanted to point out that Trump's actions are not a pure good. I don't disagree with his actions (I agree with them very much actually), but there are associated negatives.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...0-viewers.html

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHHAHHHAAAAHHAA

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA

HA HA HA HA HA

70TH...

HA!

https://i.imgur.com/3oBcQlh.jpg

Palin - “I join a long list of American public personalities who have fallen victim to the evil, exploitive, sick 'humor' of the British 'comedian' Sacha Baron Cohen, enabled and sponsored by CBS/Showtime.”

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now that shit is funny. Ali Fucking G is EVIL.

Someone do a Borat meme saying "death to infidels"

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Originally Posted by boost

https://i.imgur.com/3oBcQlh.jpg

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Or remember when Roosevelt said both sides were to blame and he will be working with Japan on their harbor security. Or when Reagan famously said "This is a great wall you have there, Mr Gorbachev." and congratulated him on his strong borders.

Trump World tour 2018.

First, goes to G7, shows up late, leaves early, claims great success, then turns on Trudeau and rips up joint statement in tweet.

Then, goes to meet KJU. Brags about not preparing, speculates about winning Nobel prize, praises awful dictator to the sky, comes away claiming historic victory, by all accounts accomplished nothing.

Then, visits NATO and immediately starts ripping into them, claims historic meeting when he actually did nothing but stoke fear in his allies that America is now an unreliable ally.

Then,goes to UK, shits all over May and praises her rival, keeps the Queen waiting, and claims great success.

Somehow finds time to go golfing at his golf course in Scotland at taxpayer expense, getting free advertising on top of it.

Next goes to meet Putin, by all accounts doesn't prepare, has secret meeting presumably to discuss if pee tape still exists, then comes out and licks Putin's nutsack in presser, claiming he believes him over his own intel service, brags about election win, and complains (again) about Hillary's emails. Gets in hot water back home, and tries to pretend he meant to say the exact opposite of what he did say and coincidentally, didn't happen to catch his own misstatement and correct it when he said it.

You just can't make this shit up.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

You just can't make this shit up.

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Democrats need to realize that this is their PUNISHMENT

You have massive populations in left leaning states that spend all their time smoking pot and hating corporations. 10% of their population can actually afford to live there and the rest live in tents on the sidewalk and do heroin. Yet they think they can dictate economic policy over rural america in the name of income equality.

Then they said, "fuck borders". Anyone can come over. For any reason. At any time. It doesn't matter if they have skills. It doesn't matter if they have an education. It doesn't matter if they speak the language. It doesn't matter if they have a criminal record. Their kids can go to our schools for free, and they'll get medicaid all funded by the American taxpayer. God bless the U S A

They villainized anyone successful. They glorified and glamorized victimization. They adopted foolish equity doctrines. And forced post-modernism through our schools. They monopolized academia and raised a generation of adult-babies in debt.

They ran a corrupt presidential campaign by conspiring with a chosen candidate instead of allowing for a fair fight. US intelligence agencies were corrupted to facilitate an investigation into Trump's campaign.

And it's all happening within a chaotic social justice pissing contest.

Trump represents everyone who is pissed off by the above, and it's a lot of people. He's saying what they think, and doing what they want him to do. He's fumbled a few times, no doubt. But I still say nothing objectively terrible has happened, and the country is actually running pretty great.

You guys seem to think that there are people out there that think Trump is infallible and Trump can do no wrong, and Trump is beyond criticism, etc etc etc etc. You think that Trump has duped these people into buying into his rhetoric and believing in his perceived greatness.

I can see why you would think that, but it's completely wrong. Those people would think that way about ANY republican. They don't love Trump. They HATE the radical left direction the country was going in (see above). They were fucking pissed off, and anyone who echoed their anger would be loved. Trump just happened to be that guy. He's merely an avatar for the middle-class, middle-American sentiment that rages against the rapidly increasing overreaches of the left.

That's actually a really good way to put it. He's an avatar.

It really could have been anybody. But it helps that he's a disgusting, foul-mouthed, grouchy, outspoken pig of a man. I mean that's one way to really spike the football in the democrats faces. And it's EXACTLY why the left's failure to learn their lesson, and their doubling-down on the identity politics bullshit will cost them in the midterms. You watch.

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Then,goes to UK, shits all over May and praises her rival, keeps the Queen waiting, and claims great success.

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- is great success.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Democrats need to realize that this is their PUNISHMENT

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So basically exactly this:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...munity/2163878

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A resident of one of the apartments told police that his neighbor, Kenneth Haskins, 58, admitted to setting the fire, according to an arrest report.

Haskins, who lives in the apartment where the fire started, later told detectives that he wanted to get back at the company that manages Mar Plaza, police said.

His reason: They had recently told him to stop masturbating in front of his open windows and front door, according to police. He was arrested on a charge of first-degree arson and held in the Orient Road Jail without bail...

Haskins, who has lived there for more than a decade, suffers from facial disfigurement that is the result of having previously shot himself in the face with a shotgun

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

- is great success.

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Baby blimp was easily the most successful part of that visit.

Lol, this is getting to be a habit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY5mQDNLB4A

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...elections.html

I want to know what would happen if I went to Finland and demanded, as a non-citizen, to participate in the running of public schools by voting for administrators. I wanted to take my American, capitalist, standardized-test, common core agenda right to Helsinki and smear it all over a Finnish election ballot.

I wonder if that would be ok.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Democrats need to realize that this is their PUNISHMENT

You have massive populations in left leaning states that spend all their time smoking pot and hating corporations. 10% of their population can actually afford to live there and the rest live in tents on the sidewalk and do heroin. Yet they think they can dictate economic policy over rural america in the name of income equality.

Then they said, "fuck borders". Anyone can come over. For any reason. At any time. It doesn't matter if they have skills. It doesn't matter if they have an education. It doesn't matter if they speak the language. It doesn't matter if they have a criminal record. Their kids can go to our schools for free, and they'll get medicaid all funded by the American taxpayer. God bless the U S A

They villainized anyone successful. They glorified and glamorized victimization. They adopted foolish equity doctrines. And forced post-modernism through our schools. They monopolized academia and raised a generation of adult-babies in debt.

They ran a corrupt presidential campaign by conspiring with a chosen candidate instead of allowing for a fair fight. US intelligence agencies were corrupted to facilitate an investigation into Trump's campaign.

And it's all happening within a chaotic social justice pissing contest.

Trump represents everyone who is pissed off by the above, and it's a lot of people. He's saying what they think, and doing what they want him to do. He's fumbled a few times, no doubt. But I still say nothing objectively terrible has happened, and the country is actually running pretty great.

You guys seem to think that there are people out there that think Trump is infallible and Trump can do no wrong, and Trump is beyond criticism, etc etc etc etc. You think that Trump has duped these people into buying into his rhetoric and believing in his perceived greatness.

I can see why you would think that, but it's completely wrong. Those people would think that way about ANY republican. They don't love Trump. They HATE the radical left direction the country was going in (see above). They were fucking pissed off, and anyone who echoed their anger would be loved. Trump just happened to be that guy. He's merely an avatar for the middle-class, middle-American sentiment that rages against the rapidly increasing overreaches of the left.

That's actually a really good way to put it. He's an avatar.

It really could have been anybody. But it helps that he's a disgusting, foul-mouthed, grouchy, outspoken pig of a man. I mean that's one way to really spike the football in the democrats faces. And it's EXACTLY why the left's failure to learn their lesson, and their doubling-down on the identity politics bullshit will cost them in the midterms. You watch.

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I actually think most of this is correct. We may differ on degrees, but yeah, Trump is a big fuck you to the political establishment, those benefitting from progress without giving a care to those who suffer from it, etc.

Now that we've come to this common ground, how do we keep this clown from destroying the world? His primary attribute, as you've said, is that he enrages the other side. What happens when his inclination to do so results in what is not unreasonably causing the word treason to be floated*? We get it, you're mad, and you have a right to be, but now that you've lashed out, how do we actually move forward and fix the problem?

*I don't agree that he's committed treason, but we are in a situation where the word entering the conversation isn't as absurd as it should be. He's certainly flirted with treason in publicly entertaining the idea of handing over a former US ambassador for interrogation by a adversarial foreign power.

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Originally Posted by boost

Now that we've come to this common ground, how do we keep this clown from destroying the world?

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Stop with this. He's not going to destroy the world, nor could he. And actually, there's a hell of a lot less nuclear testing and saber-rattling than their has been in a while. So give some credit where credit is due. You can't say he's a potential world-destroyer when he's still a potential candidate for the nobel peace prize. Seriously wtf?

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*I don't agree that he's committed treason, but we are in a situation where the word entering the conversation isn't as absurd as it should be.

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He's been called racist, misogynist, sexist, fascist, nazi, dictator, totalitarian, puppet, cheater, liar, and a vast number of other seemingly disqualifying epithets. In fact, this isn't even the first time the word "treason" has been thrown around. In fact, the first time it was Trump's guy, Bannon, who said the word. It wasn't some left leaning journalists who needed a new buzzword to sell papers. What makes you think this even matters?

Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and the right acted as if (some literally saying) he was the anti-christ.

You can't hold that he has the power to MAGA, but not the power to do the opposite. I could be wrong, his actions with NATO, NK, Russia, etc could be tactics of a winning long term strategy-- but if that's possible, the opposite must be true too. Injecting doubt into our relationships with our allies regarding Americans commitment to trade, Article 5 of NATO's charter, etc may be part of a winning strategy for us and the world, but it's and odd thing to expect from a president who's main attribute as a candidate was that he pissed off the other side.

Right-- that's what's got so many people perplexed, none of this seems to matter to his base. They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings. It's no surprise that he turned out to be all these things-- after all, these are all the things that would piss off the other side, and that was what his supporters voted for.

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Originally Posted by boost

They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings

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You're historical perspective here is pretty narrow. The options were: You could vote for someone you align with on policy, or someone you align with on temperament. You can't have both. And each has consequences that you have to live with.

It's like you think that thoughts about Trump's shortcomings just bounce off of his supporters, or sail right over their heads. They aren't totally indifferent to these things.

All of the offensive things about Trump were known, and carefully considered by those who ended up supporting him. This all happened BEFORE he became president. In fact, BEFORE he won the republican primary. We knew he was sleazy, uncouth, outspoken, cantankerous, etc etc etc. It was a tough pill to swallow, but frankly it wasn't possible to vote for a president without "glaring shortcomings".

Trump's were considered, and accepted as the lesser of two evils when compared to a Hillary presidency. Trump hasn't done anything, or acted in any way that is inconsistent with what you would have predicted on the day he announced his candidacy. For fuck's sake man, he's been ranting about tarriffs since the 80's!! So to be "outraged" by any of his behavior now is to admit to being a wholly naive idiot when you voted.

is that what you're expecting republicans to do?

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Originally Posted by boost

Right-- that's what's got so many people perplexed, none of this seems to matter to his base. They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings. It's no surprise that he turned out to be all these things-- after all, these are all the things that would piss off the other side, and that was what his supporters voted for.

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I think the yahoos who go to his rallies and chant his slogans are actually a fairly small proportion of his base that gets off on the middle finger part of it; that are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

I think a greater proportion made a somewhat defensible choice between the lesser of two evils, or maybe just voted R because they always vote R. Now they're stuck with their choice, and cognitive dissonance is keeping them from admitting their mistake .

One also shouldn't underestimate the effect of media sources that are clearly biased in presenting Agent Orange in the best possible light in all possible circumstances, and backing his tinfoil hat theories about opponents out to get him. Imagining watching that day in and day out, the relentless drum beating propaganda being driven into your head repeatedly for two years. It has to affect their thinking. Maybe they started out watching it because it already was biased to their way of thinking. Then it confirmed their choice was the correct one in the early days, and by now it's just the only version of reality they can make sense of.

It's like for those on our side who occasionally turn on Fox News just to see what they're doing - it's actually quite difficult to watch because it's message is so much the opposite of what you think is true. The same feeling must arise in Trump's supporters any time they get exposed to the so-called 'fake' news.

People interpret what they see within the framework of their world view - when it agrees with that they say 'fuck yeah', when it contradicts it they say 'this is bullshit'. The end result is two sides that get more and more invested in their own version of reality, and more and more alienated from those embracing a contrary world view.

To be honest, sometimes I watch CNN, NBC, or whatever and think they're going over the line, or picking on things that really aren't important about what Trump says or does. And on many occasions, they're outrage seems out of proportion.

The ideal news network would simply report what he does without including any editorializing or passing of judgment. On that basis, if you just evaluate his actions on their own merits (and also, importantly, ignore his constant self-appraisal of how great a job he's doing, which is another form of propaganda), it's hard to argue he isn't a pretty shitty president.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

It's like for those on our side who occasionally turn on Fox News just to see what they're doing - it's actually quite difficult to watch because it's message is so much the opposite of what you think is true. The same feeling must arise in Trump's supporters any time they get exposed to the so-called 'fake' news

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You might be right about it being a two-way street. But there is simply NO WAY the traffic is flowing equally in both directions.

First, don't paint all of Fox News with the Hannity-brush. Second, take a look at the video that Jack posted recently of the conservative guy storming off of a cable news show because they were trying to cram the word "Sharia" in his mouth. That wasn't a debate. That wasn't an honest exchange of ideas. Hannity does the same thing sometimes. But there are people who like to watch that, so who are we to judge.

But when it comes to a sincere willingness to actually debate the other side....Fox and the conservatives blow the left out of the water. I mean, watch Chris Hayes at 8pm on MSNBC. Then flip over to Tucker Carlson on Fox, and tell me which one of those people is working in an echo chamber.

Compare Lawrence O'Donnell to Laura Ingrahm. It's not even close. One of those people is a demagogue, the other one is Laura Ingrahm.

That's why fox is #1 and MSNBC sucks.

Now if you wanna say Fox is #1 because it's the only conservative game in town...fine. All you're saying there is that ALL OTHER media is heavily tilted left. That's just gonna make more people watch Fox.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/opini...ion/index.html

HA HA HA HA "BEST" week ever huh?? This is it? Cloud 9 huh guys? This is the most fun a comedic political commentator will ever have in his lifetime? This week...."the best"???

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

No one's gonna remember this in a month!!!

And this was your chance to bring the guy down!! Think about it, this is supposedly the most humiliated he's ever been and I promise you he gives zero fucks and lost zero votes.

This is your A-game dems???

OMG....too funny....

Richard Marx!!!

HILARIOUS

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...elections.html

I want to know what would happen if I went to Finland and demanded, as a non-citizen, to participate in the running of public schools by voting for administrators. I wanted to take my American, capitalist, standardized-test, common core agenda right to Helsinki and smear it all over a Finnish election ballot.

I wonder if that would be ok.

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Is your American, capitalist, standardized-test, common core agenda demonstrably bettr than the one they have in Helsinki? If so, I'd say go right ahead.

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Is your American, capitalist, standardized-test, common core agenda demonstrably bettr than the one they have in Helsinki? If so, I'd say go right ahead.

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And if not????

Seriously, what if it isn't demonstrably better? what if it's actually demonstrably worse

Is that relevant?

Is that how voting works in Jack-land? You have to prove that your way is right before you're allowed to vote??

What the hell man?? I know Monkey doesn't like it when I'm rude to you but come on. what kind of thinking is this??

And yes, the American way is demonstrably better. We've been through this. Finland sucks.

I'm seriously tilted right now.

I'm sure you're gonna tell me to chill, or that you were just being hyperbolic, or facetious, or some garbage like that. I'm not buying it.

That's a supremely dangerous way of thinking Jack. Fascism doesn't end well.

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Originally Posted by boost

I actually think most of this is correct. We may differ on degrees, but yeah, Trump is a big fuck you to the political establishment, those benefitting from progress without giving a care to those who suffer from it, etc.

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A question is why is he a big fuck you to the establishment? As an insider, I can say it's because the view is that the establishment is screwing people over. Which means that for Trump to be a successful politician according to his supporters, he has to make things better.

This brings us to what I use, the prediction model of reality. So far, the prediction model of reality has shown that virtually every Trump-specific concern anybody had was wrong.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

And if not????

Seriously, what if it isn't demonstrably better? what if it's actually demonstrably worse

Is that relevant?

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Civilization strives to get better. At least, it should in theory. As an example, female genital mutilation is demonstrably bad, therefore should be outlawed everywhere IMO.

Yet it isn't. In some places it's dictated by the local culture and is widespread

However, if I had the chance where I can somehow vote for it to be outlawed, then I would. No hesitation obviously

Ergo, status quo = "yes female mutilation", and I'd like it to change to "no female mutilation". Yet if the choice would instead be that I'd be forced/have to change that with something which is, again, demonstrably worse, like say, decapitation, wouldn't really make sense now would it

This all in the places where it is applicable obviously

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Is that how voting works in Jack-land? You have to prove that your way is right before you're allowed to vote??

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Well, if there is a method to something, and you want to change that method for some reason and do so democratically, then you should be able to easily demonstrate why the current method you want to change is bad and why the one you wish to change it with is better when it has to come down to a vote, in order to somehow win said vote, right?

Logic isn't hard, banana

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

What the hell man?? I know Monkey doesn't like it when I'm rude to you but come on. what kind of thinking is this??

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Honestly I don't care if you are rude, it's just further demonstration of your high IQ at play there

So go right ahead, be as rude as you feel the need to be. Like Charles Wright & the Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band said, express yourself

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

And yes, the American way is demonstrably better.

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Show me actual, valid proof that corroborates your opinion

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

We've been through this. Finland sucks.

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To you, apparently, it does. To the world, apparently, it doesn't

Must be nice, ignoring facts, research, outcomes and reality like that, and default to a RAH RAH AMERICA FUCK YEAH attitude all the time

Jack, are you high right now?

The article was about non-citizens, in the country illegally, participating in the democratic process and policy-making. The question at hand, is whether or not they have the right to vote. It has nothing to do with whether or not the policies that they would support are "demonstrably better".

This isn't a question of "what should be voted for"

The question is "who votes?"

Are you following me now?

Seems to me that what you've advocated now, in two consecutive posts, is that only the people who's policies are "demonstrably better" than the status quo, should be allowed to vote.

So if I have a great plan for education reform, I can go and vote for it in Finland. But if the plan sucks, I'm denied access to the voting booth. Is that your position? Do I have that right? If not, you should correct yourself, because that is EXACTLY what you said. No strawmen.

Question: Should people with no legal status in the country be allowed to vote?

Jack's Answer: Only if their ideas are "demonstrably better"

Who decides what's "better"?

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Show me actual, valid proof that corroborates your opinion

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# of American flags on the moon > # Finnish flags on the moon


ON THE FUCKING MOON JACK!

Planting flags on moons is how we measure if a nation sucks or not? Quick, Finland, divert all your money into a space programme designed to put a flag on Europa. Actually, make that two flags.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Planting flags on moons is how we measure if a nation sucks or not? Quick, Finland, divert all your money into a space programme designed to put a flag on Europa. Actually, make that two flags.

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Why do they need so much money? To hire Americans?? I thought all their free schools were just churning out little geniuses non-stop.

Flags are heavy, it takes a lot of fuel to lift one out of the atmosphere.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Flags are heavy, it takes a lot of fuel to lift one out of the atmosphere.

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Actually no. The real reason is that jowels are not aerodynamic

https://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Fi...b3_3292436.jpg

These photos were clearly taken in winter when their faces were frozen in a strange shape after sleeping.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

These photos were clearly taken in winter when their faces were frozen in a strange shape after sleeping.

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Isn't it winter year-round in Finland?

Just another reason why they suck.

It's 25 degrees in Helsinki right now, and forecast to get warmer.

That's 25 logical degrees, ie 25% between freezing and boiling water.

I did the googling for you. 75 stupid degrees.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

It's 25 degrees in Helsinki right now, and forecast to get warmer.

That's 25 logical degrees, ie 25% between freezing and boiling water.

I did the googling for you. 75 stupid degrees.

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How many sunny days in England so far in 2018??

Don't tell us how to measure weather. You clearly have a bias against it.

How many sunny days? A fuck ton more than last year already, probably. Fuck knows. How is that a fair measure, anyway? I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

How many sunny days? A fuck ton more than last year already, probably. Fuck knows. How is that a fair measure, anyway? I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive the best at everything.

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FYP

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive.

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That's right. Length AND girth baby

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/fo...AHj?li=BBnbfcL

Damn, she was literally the #1 reason I watched Fox News.

She was almost Trump's press secretary. God that woulda been hot.

Also impotent.

Does anyone remember when USA was a global superpower?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Also impotent.

Does anyone remember when USA was a global superpower?

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If it wasn't for us, you'd be turned into Germany's toilet. Your whole fucking country would have been one giant prison labor camp for the national socialist empire.

If it wasn't for us, you'd be a different colour and would have respect for the environment.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

If it wasn't for us, you'd be turned into Germany's toilet. Your whole fucking country would have been one giant prison labor camp for the national socialist empire.

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How do you say this in the language you'd be speaking if it wasn't for us?

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Jack, are you high right now?

The article was about non-citizens, in the country illegally, participating in the democratic process and policy-making. The question at hand, is whether or not they have the right to vote. It has nothing to do with whether or not the policies that they would support are "demonstrably better".

This isn't a question of "what should be voted for"

The question is "who votes?"

Are you following me now?

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I was replying to the bolded part in your comment, which is why, I, uh, bolded it

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Seems to me that what you've advocated now, in two consecutive posts, is that only the people who's policies are "demonstrably better" than the status quo, should be allowed to vote.?

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Voting seems to be an alien concept for your high IQ

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

I was replying to the bolded part in your comment, which is why, I, uh, bolded it

Voting seems to be an alien concept for your high IQ

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You're not making any sense buddy.

You said, that I, as an American citizen, should be allowed to vote in Finnish elections but only IF I have a plan that is "demonstrably better" than what the Finnish have now.

Let's just go back to the original link ok? There are people who are in America, illegally, with no status or protection under the law. Some municipalities are extending the right to vote to these people.

What are they bringing to the table that is "demonstrably better"?

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

You're not making any sense buddy.

You said, that I, as an American citizen, should be allowed to vote in Finnish elections but only IF I have a plan that is "demonstrably better" than what the Finnish have now.

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Try again, rereading my reply. Note the bolded part which was bolded for some reason

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Let's just go back to the original link ok?

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No, fuck fox news

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

There are people who are in America, illegally, with no status or protection under the law. Some municipalities are extending the right to vote to these people.

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Are they a part of the community? Do they pay taxes? Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there? Then maybe they should have a vote

Or you can just pretend they don't exist

Or mount themm all on a wagon and send them to Mexico

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

What are they bringing to the table that is "demonstrably better"?

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Again, try rereading my reply, and noting the bolded part

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Are they a part of the community? Do they pay taxes? Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there? Then maybe they should have a vote

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WOW ok...

So let's say I move to Finland. And I have kids in Finnish schools. And someone runs for school board, or whatever they have over there, on a platform of private schools and standardized tests.

Then let's say I invite a whole community full of my American friends and family to all move to Finland and settle in the same area as me.

None of us are there legally. None of us give a shit about the culture there. We like the American-style education, and if we're allowed to vote, then we vote for the change.

Now that little Finnish town we live in is full of illegal American immigrants, with the right to vote, and thus, representation in government.

So....is it still Finland?

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Try again, rereading my reply. Note the bolded part which was bolded for some reason

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Oh I see

You read what I wrote, then twisted it and invented some totally different meaning.

Nice trick....

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Are they a part of the community? Do they pay taxes? Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there? Then maybe they should have a vote

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Bolded for emphasis

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

WOW ok...

So let's say I move to Finland. And I have kids in Finnish schools. And someone runs for school board, or whatever they have over there, on a platform of private schools and standardized tests.

Then let's say I invite a whole community full of my American friends and family to all move to Finland and settle in the same area as me.

None of us are there legally. None of us give a shit about the culture there. We like the American-style education, and if we're allowed to vote, then we vote for the change.

Now that little Finnish town we live in is full of illegal American immigrants, with the right to vote, and thus, representation in government.

So....is it still Finland?

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LOL the strawman game is strong with this one

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Try again, rereading my reply. Note the bolded part which was bolded for some reason

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Oh I see

You read what I wrote, then twisted it and invented some totally different meaning.

Nice trick....

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Yeah, I should have added that you should probably have had to employ your high IQ for the rereading as well, I forgot to tho

Actually I did but what I actually forgot to do was to click submit and then I went BOC on a beach here, so hai

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Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there?

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Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

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No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

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Originally Posted by Savy

No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

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This is the important part, and you are right IMO

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Originally Posted by Savy

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

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That's Banana's strawman which you are against

The nice thing is that open borders is not a problem, and does not induce or invite terrorism.

Most terrorism in America is perpetuated by Americans: school shootings, Waco wackos, unabomber, etc.
The irrational fear that immigrants have a negative effect on Americans' lives is what it is.

We had open borders with Canada and Mexico for - like, forever, man - and no downward spiral of terrorism.

I hear a lot of people pissing and moaning about immigrants, but not one of the people I've spoken to about it has any reason to think that they have been denied any rights or priveleges because some immigrant bamboozled the system.

Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals, but so is every person that speeds on a public road. Not all criminals are doing harm, is all I'm saying. I'm not arguing to be soft on crime. I may be arguing that we have a lot of stupid laws whose intent is to suppress freedom and not help it thrive. That's a big problem when we can talk the freedom talk, but not walk the walk, so to speak.


The other nice thing is that this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people because they are not citizens is purely hateful and MOST people in the world are not full of hate like that. The vocal minority of haters ain't going to get much accomplished.

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...this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people...

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What do you mean when you say "less-than-equal"? Do you mean access to social security and the right to vote? Things like that?

Open borders, instant citizenship, what could possibly go wrong?

Equality is a crock of shit. We are not all equal. If I move to USA, I expect to be treated differently to someone who was born in USA, at least until I've earned the right to be called a citizen. And I do that by not breaking the law, by working, and by integrating.

You don't just instantly integrate, so you don't just instantly get the same rights as citizens. I don't know how any sane person can even indulge the thought of allowing non-citizens to vote.

If that's not what you're getting at, ignore me, as you were. I'm sure someone here was bleating about this though.

You're talking about two completely different things. The humanitarian position is that immigrants, legal or illegal should have basic human rights and the right to due process. How would you even determine who is who without due process?
You on the other hand are parroting a ridiculous lie that millions of illegal immigrants are voting in the US election, which is not based on facts, but it is something Trump has repeated hundreds of times. Trump keeps lying because his lies are very popular with racist retards. If you don't want to sound like a racist retard, fact check your trump tweets before you state them as fact.
On top of that, MMM didn't say anything even related to that, nor has anyone else that I'm aware of. I'm starting to hate this word but you trump tards are putting up more strawmen than the average pumpkin farm.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/u...e-process.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-from-parents

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

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Originally Posted by oskar

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

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It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does. And I know evil is a strong word but I really can't find a better way of describing it.

Literally nothing he's doing benefits the dumb yokels who form a majority of his base. Not the separation of families at the border, not the idiotic trade war with the entire world, not the insulting of his allies and ball-licking of Putin and KJU, not the tax cuts for the rich, not the dismantling of the education system and the EPA, not the constant hiring and firing and resigning of cabinet members, not the constant scandals with porn stars, not the arrests of former campaign officials, not the constant shouting about witch hunts and Hillary's emails, not the constant bragging and lying about success, not the constant flip-flopping on his message every other day. None of it is in the least bit constructive. Not one iota.

But his supporters can live with all that because once in a while they get to see him screaming threats at someone on twitter like a tinfoil hat lunatic who's been taken off his meds and they get an orgasm from his showing "strength for the USA", 'cause apparently that's as sophisticated as their world view gets.

Seriously, if your main reason for supporting Trump is because he pisses off libruls and LGBTs and anyone else who you don't identify with, then it just shows you're not actually "for" anything positive, you're just against anyone who isn't a miserable sob like you are.

I'm not quoting Trump tweets, I'm referring to comments itt. And quite frankly I don't care if I sound like a racist idiot. I'm not one. I'm not going to get butthurt over casual use of powerful words. I'm not racist because I don't believe my race is superior to another. I know what racism actually means.

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

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Go fuck yourself.

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No, you.

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It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does.

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There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA. Except most of those don't get voted in.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

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So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

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They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified.

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Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect. It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA.

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So only being middling in the list of evil countries is an ok standard now?

Except most of those don't get voted in.[/QUOTE]

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

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Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.

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So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

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"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect.

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Is this really an epidemic? And how many native-born people are raping babies? You have to show it's something to do with being an immigrant that makes someone go around raping babies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

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Do you think they did that because they thought it was in your best interests or because they had some ulterior motive?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

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That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

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Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

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That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

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This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.



"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

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I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed; since neither of those appear likely I think you'll probably join the rest of his fans in thinking it was a conspiracy. Not saying such a conspiracy is impossible, just that if you knew enough about Trump you'd be inclined to think he's extremely greasy, and on the balance of likelihood, he's probably done several things that are worthy of impeachment.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

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This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

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It's a typical shrug; "evil is everywhere so we may as well accept it."

How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

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I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed;

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As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

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Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

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Haha Daily Mirror. You're really sucked into the identity politics game, aren't you?

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How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

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Fine. Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. I assume you were protesting when their respective leaders visited the UK recently?

I don't see truly evil shit happening in USA. I see some shit that makes me think "really", but then I also think "gald that's not my problem" because I have absolutely no idea how to deal with the problem of immigrants, which is why it's hard for me to critisise someone who is trying to deal with it. At least he's trying to stop it, rather than encouraging it.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

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Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

I blame the liberals for making it so you can keep adult immigrants in inhumane conditions but not their babies. Not sure how that's Trump's fault.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-44902381

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Haha Daily Mirror. You're really sucked into the identity politics game, aren't you?

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Sorry if I misidintified your source of misinformation. Just seemed like the kind of hysterical argument you'd read in the DM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Fine. Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. I assume you were protesting when their respective leaders visited the UK recently?

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You gotta pick your fights.

Turkey isn't an important ally to us, and S.A. isn't an ally at all. And those two historically haven't been much better countries than they are now, but the US has. There is more hope for the US than for them. At least in the US their citizens will see the protests.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

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By an independent Rep counsel appointed by the Rep Attorney General,who himself was appointed by the Rep president himself. I'd be more suspicious if they didn't indict anyone.

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. .

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Don't forget Russia.

But you're ok with Trump kowtowing to Putin and not confronting him about the election meddling. You're sure there's a very innocent or even a positive explanation for that.

Go to the optometrist mate you are going blind.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

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Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

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Turkey isn't an important ally to us, and S.A. isn't an ally at all.

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Incorrect. Saudi Arabia is an important ally, we sell weapons to them. Furthermore, they are allied to Israel, against the common enemy of Iran.

Turkey are an important strategical ally wrt Syria.

This is why we let them get away with being cunts. How many times do you head Erdogan's name compared to Trump's? Or how about Sheik Allah bin-Fuckhead? Who do you suppose is the bigger cunt?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Don't forget Russia.

But you're ok with Trump kowtowing to Putin and not confronting him about the election meddling. You're sure there's a very innocent or even a positive explanation for that.

Go to the optometrist mate you are going blind.

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Hating on Putin makes a tiny bit more sense than hating on Trump. I mean at least Putin does supress opposition.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Incorrect. Saudi Arabia is an important ally, we sell weapons to them. Furthermore, they are allied to Israel, against the common enemy of Iran.

Turkey are an important strategical ally wrt Syria.

This is why we let them get away with being cunts. How many times do you head Erdogan's name compared to Trump's? Or how about Sheik Allah bin-Fuckhead? Who do you suppose is the bigger cunt?

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Neither of them is anywhere near as important to us as the USA was my point.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Hating on Putin makes a tiny bit more sense than hating on Trump.

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Glad we agree on something at least.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Neither of them is anywhere near as important to us as the USA was my point.

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Ok, so we agree that USA is an important ally, more so than the cunts. Does that mean we should do our utmost to insult their democratically elected leader?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Ok, so we agree that USA is an important ally, more so than the cunts. Does that mean we should do our utmost to insult their democratically elected leader?

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It was a spontaneous thing, it wasn't like the gov't organised it or anything. So what were they supposed to do, beat up the protesters?

You can't stop people from protesting, but a president can stop himself from being a dick of a guest in their ally's country.

The Mayor of London was promoting the baby balloon. I mean we can pretend that it was spontaneous if we want to pretend we're all fucking stupid, but it blatantly wasn't. Furthermore, everyone who attended just made themselves look like hypocrites... with the notable exception of those who did happen to protest the hosting of Turk and Saudi officials. Respect to those guys. But the 99%... it was a day for selfies.

He was a dick of a guest? Oh dear, he insulted Terry's Brexit plan. Well fuck me dead, I'm sorry I was more bothered about despotic leaders gracing our shores.

Tbf one of the best things about the UK is that we do shit like the baby balloon. As much as I'm basically a Trump fan over here as I don't think he's Satan I would never want to see things like that not happening.

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

Google it oskar.

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Originally Posted by Poopadoop

Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Google it oskar.

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Is that a deflection, ong? You could just make it easy for all and name your source, right? As apparently they can't find it

Since google indeed failed me, I had to turn to searching breitbart. This is the closest thing to "immigrant baby rape" as a search result I could find

By none other than Ann Coulter

https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...rape-epidemic/

Deflection, laziness, call it what you like. I really can't be fucked to go through my twitter feed and browsing history to satisify poop's and oskar's demands for sources. If you want to argue that I'm talking out of my arse, google it, and tell me that you found nothing. I'll wait.

Oh I didn't read your second post. Well glad google failed you. Try adding "Rotherham" to your search.

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

---

Imigrunts

Right, that's Rotherham done. Now try Sweden. Then after that, Germany. Take a look how enriched their societies have become thanks to imigrunts.

I should point out, it's a certain type of immigrant I have a problem with. ie, the ones who are so blindly deluded by batshit religion that they feel local law does not apply to them, rather they asnwer to he who cannot be drawn.

Despising a religion is not racism. Islam is not a fucking race. It's a cult. If we were talking about banning scientologists because they are fucking idiots who have nothing in common with normal values, then no one would give a fuck. Because because most Muslims happen to be of a dark skin colour, it's suddenly a matter of race rather than religion.

Fuck that. I'm not being forced into accpeting crazy just because morons are playing the race card. Islam is incompatible with our values. If you can't see that, then you have your eyes shut.

According to the 2010 census, 0,003% of mexicans are muslims while 1% of the US population are muslims. So mexican immigrants effectively reduce the percentage of muslims in the US. Wanna try again?

You know, I've been on benefits for large portions of my life, and not once have I ever seen a Chinese person in the jobcentre.

The thing with Mexicans is they are economic migrants, not refugess or war migrants. It's perfectly acceptable to refuse entry to an economic migrant if the host nation feels it is not in their economic interests. Is Mexico at war? It's a bit fucking lawless, and I'd prefer to live in USA than Mexico. But it's not a matter of life or death for the majority of those who attempt to cross, it's a matter of preference. I'd rather live in New Zealand than UK. My life would be a great deal more satisfying. I even speak the same language as they do. And I don't believe in sky fairies. But I'm useless to them, so as far as they're concerned, I can stay the fuck here in UK And the crazy thing is... I think that is absolutely fair enough.

I haven't got a problem with any individual who intends to settle in a new country by means of genuine integration... being a law abiding citizen, working and speaking the host language. That applies to Mexicans, Muslims, anyone. The problem with Muslims is they don't integrate. Do Mexicans? I wouldn't really know, but I would imagine they do more so than Muslims. Are they of net economic benefit to USA? Again I wouldn't know, that's a matter for the President.It seems he thinks not.

But again, I'll say this... being anti-immigration is NOT racism. Most people who are anti-immigration are so on economic and social grounds. You won't hear many people in the UK telling Chinese people to fuck off back to where they came from, and the reason is because they integrate and become part of our society. That's the key. If Muslims came here and, idk, spoke English and abandoned Sharia, and perhaps kept their opinions about how immoral their hosts are to themselves, then we might not have a problem.

idk if Mexicans are a problem for USA, but I certainly respect the right of the USA to tell economic migrants to fuck off.

I heard this story about this famous British entertainer who singlehandedly raped lots of babies over decades and his employers and the authorities covered it up and why British people are being allowed to live here I have no idea.