Polygamist Werewolf

part of me still wants to argue with ong about how villagery i am

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Ditto. Apparently, Wuf was sure I was a wolf, too. As did everyone else. Maybe I'm not as villgery as I think I am?

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i know i had perfect info, but imo if i was a villager i would have thought you were a villager from the beginning. your first post attack is such a different mindset than you showed last game as a wolf. i didnt want to keep emphasizing this read though because you had some heat for other people. also if i defended you i was scared you would get paranoid about me pocketing you and then youd put me on blast

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I think the boog/hoopy villager pair is a handicap to the village through no fault of your own.

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Heh, when Hoopy wrote the wolfiest post in the thread, I thought that was game over. So wolfy.

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Originally Posted by gabe

wuf says "i mean, the reason i bolded gabe like a week ago was because his freudian slip claim on rascal was something he would never believe as a villager"

this is like the only way i find wolves as a villager. when i get inside their heard and consider how it led to their words getting posted



its kind of a relief not being a wolf anymore. lots of pressure

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Villagers make tons of slips that can be presented as wolfy, but that really wasn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I think this is really tough for the wolves against a strong village. If it's 60/40 in a vacuum, it's probably 70/30 here. That said, a strong wolf team can pull this off, and wolves were actually in a winning position at one point I think, had they all been together, despite being up against it.

It's nice and simple, and forces the wolves to work together. It's good.

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I was hoping it'd be wolf favored honestly, on MS, the wolf winrate is 66% over 12 games. You may be right tho

ong zzzzzzz i feel like youre baiting me into arguing like always. i bet you'd love for me to point out all of your wrong posts, like #1200

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Originally Posted by gabe

ong zzzzzzz i feel like youre baiting me into arguing like always. i bet you'd love for me to point out all of your wrong posts, like #1200

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I lost count of how many times I read back my posts and thought "that could look bad"

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Originally Posted by JKDS

I was hoping it'd be wolf favored honestly, on MS, the wolf winrate is 66% over 12 games. You may be right tho

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I guess this is the closest wolves have come to winning in some time, considering they were within reach.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Notice that gabe hasn't directly acknowledged any of the points I've made where I suggest he's not playing like he does as a villager. That's because he knows I'm right and has no credible argument. Better to just ignore me and respond to other points.

gabe villager would at least acknowledge the points I'm making make him look bad, and try to argue why he's not his usual sharp self.

I mean this is gabe who sniffed out the epic triple fakeclaim.

And he'd have us believe that he needs me to remind him that boog/hoopy are confirmed wolves from his pov.

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Well baited gabe.

So how is this wrong? I was bang on here.

I was so convinced gabe was a wolf, that I knew JKDS was trolling with the flip.

Im for reelz sitting out the next one, I was burned out even before I subbed here tbh

And I still havent read the den thread

Hahaha gg guys

I still think Boog is a wolf.

Dunno how I can take MVP, I couldn't have done half the shit I did without Ong playing point. Plus I was a big liability day 2 as I was actively trying to coax Ong over to Boog where I was much more comfortable. If he doesn't refuse to let go, I might pull him over to the wrong side.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

Thoughts on format?

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I said it earlier in the game, I thought this was one hell of a game. I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

Some points on the format

The site I played this on has very long days. We're talking 3 weeks. Its a key aspect of the game, since otherwise it'd be over really quickly. I tried to keep with the long day spirit by having longer days than we're used to here. But, I didnt want to force it. So I compromised and had a mandatory 72 hour day, and a 48 hr extension.

Rilla asked me to get rid of that extension on day 2. I thought that'd be too pro village, and went against the spirit of the game. I also didnt want to go back on what I said at the start of the day, which some players could have been relying on.

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Neat thing: Sometimes when this format is played, failing to reach majority = no lynch, and the wolves get a night kill. I figured that would severely handicap our village and would make this way too wolf favored. I also didnt want "stalling out" to be a winning strategy (especially if we had an inactive, which we usually do).

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Wuf was correct that a random lynch is +EV for the village. Its something like a 60% winrate. But I was 99% certain that noone would ever fucking do that, and picked this format anyway.

I also had a lot of faith in the wolves after they got wuf lynched. Day1 is brutal for them, since its just a 4/12= 1/3 shot for the village to lynch one of them. But, day 2 their equity skyrockets since literally EVERY villager needs to be on the wolf wagon to reach majority. They almost got boog, but meh.

The inactivity likely hurt both sides here. It wasnt from many players, but being absent made it harder for either side to reach majority.

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I was of the opinion that it was pro-wolf to shorten the days and I remember past games that the closer you get to the deadline in these no-specials games, the more paranoid everyone becomes. I didn't want the wolves to have to churn through 3 or 4 realignments before we got to that point.

Shitttt. Sorry wolf bros. This was a really bad time for me and I think any other format I would've managed better. I peeked in a few times today from work n almost slapped a vote on boog but all I could think was how bad it would look of me since I was overly afk. (Should've anyways cuz like, why the eff not)

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Rescind gabe?

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Btw I chuckled at this question mark, it was perfect

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Originally Posted by gabe

jkds, thanks for modding. it was very fun.

rilla please enjoy reading the den thread ;) its open

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I kinda wish I wolfed with you guys this game. You guys played really well. With Luco sliding in late, that added a great wrinkle to your team.

RNG shoulda swapped me in for SMF, the slanker!

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Originally Posted by SuperMonkeyFace

Shitttt. Sorry wolf bros. This was a really bad time for me and I think any other format I would've managed better. I peeked in a few times today from work n almost slapped a vote on boog but all I could think was how bad it would look of me since I was overly afk. (Should've anyways cuz like, why the eff not)

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did you really forget about the game? I was inclined to believe you bc i felt your pain of ww + busy schedule, now i just need to know...

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I kinda wish I wolfed with you guys this game. You guys played really well. With Luco sliding in late, that added a great wrinkle to your team.

RNG shoulda swapped me in for SMF, the slanker!

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I would love to wolf with you. After your last wolf game I know youve got wolf greatness in you, im never as confident on my reads as I make out btw and you had me guessing for a while iirc

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Originally Posted by BooG690

This was the most fun I had in WW in a while. The pair format forced villagers to logically put together wolf teams rather than go after individual wolves. Thanks JKDS.

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This. Thanks JKDS

I think what rilla needs is a wolf game where he avoids early heat for long enough to find his stride, if that makes sense

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten :D

I think if I could have just put a little more doubt into ong's head this game we would have had it

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Originally Posted by Luco

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten :D

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A forgotten virtue in recent FTR WW games...

This was an excellent game. I was too busy to play, or even sub. Which is good, because I was going to have had an uphill climb to clear hoopy/boog at the time the sub was proposed. By the end of the game it was clear that it couldn't be boog/hoopy with gabe, though... so maybe I don't blow it all.

I don't know if I'll ever be comfortable reading ong as V. I mean, I was pretty sure, but kept getting all paranoid. Plus, I kept thinking that if aubrey flipped wolf again, this is the kind of adjustment she'd be making to her play. More involved, but still on the fringes.

Keep asking question, aubrey! It's one of your strengths in WW.

BID played a great wolf game.

The self back-n-forth wufrage in the dead thread is hilarious.


Kinda sad that "villager knees" didn't continue in this game.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

The self back-n-forth wufrage in the dead thread is hilarious.

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hahaha yup

I missed your graphs, MMM

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Originally Posted by Luco

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten :D

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Originally Posted by BankItDrew

A forgotten virtue in recent FTR WW games...

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My modding philosophy is
1) Make the game fun/different
2) Be as invisible as possible.

I think its for the best.

@All: Glad you liked the game!

glad you like the wufrage

thanks for modding jkds

Some thoughts (color-coded!):

Cross-claim: as fun as it was, I think it turned the most likely villagers into wolf targets. None of the four of us were anywhere near getting lynched in the minds of any villagers until after the claim and the idea that the scenario could happen to wolves. I think we perfect-game this if not for the cross-claim. FPS only works when nobody sees it as FPS, which is why using FPS doesn't work and also why accusations of FPS are rarely correct.

Boog and Hoopy: I apologize for my shitty play regarding you guys. A few games back I realized that in theory it should always be wrong to attack players who are not your immediate lynch targets, and this game is evidence supporting that. You guys had coincidentally played within a wolfy realm, so I assumed you had to be the second pair to Gabe and Keith. Blowing you off probably made me look wolfy to you, which probably made it easier to view Ong's theory as veracious.

My lynch: LOL cmon guys that was some "wuf's dumbass soulreads from 4 years ago" level of tinfoil.

BID: in the dead thread when I said somebody is playing so cleverly that he might not know he's being clever, I was talking about you. Apparently there's a generic villager tell that applies to everybody on FTR yet doesn't apply to you. When you do the tell, it's either null or shows you're a wolf. My assumption that the tell applies to you is part of why the last two times you were wolf I gave you some village cred.

Gabe: you're my MVP!

The cross-claim sucked.

The cross claim would've been better if someone potentially linked to any of those four tore wuf and rascal's posts apart instead of me. It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

It was like a grenade, and grenades are always a good thing.

Show me when a grenade was ever a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

The cross claim would've been better if someone potentially linked to any of those four tore wuf and rascal's posts apart instead of me. It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

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ong i dont understand what you mean

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

ong i dont understand what you mean

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It was a reaction test, right? What use is a reaction test if the only person to give a true villager reaction to it is the one already least likely to get lynched?

But how can rilla know that would happen. He just lobs the grenade, he doesn't control the explosion.

my read is that rilla was trying to confuse the wolves and get some meaningful reactions from them.

the main value i see to it is to show that the faker and the target (and their partners) are villagers. this comes by the target's reaction (a wolf would botch it by not playing along most likely and villager would do what i did), as well as by knowing that a wolf is super unlikely to choose the wrong target since it will so often backfire and get the wolves killed.

the irony is that even if villagers had realized this and given vil cred based on it, what happened is the paranoid view that the wolves were forced into it accidentally. obviously i think this basically never happens, and i explain why boog and hoopy gave it credence by how badly i attacked them.

interesting to note, the dynamic did reveal bid to be a wolf. his d1 behavior was consistent with how he sometimes played villager 2 years ago, but when d2 came around and he ignored his d1 opinion, it showed that he was wolf.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

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:h:

I would have fought the wuf lynch if I was in-game. Wuf was clearly not FOS by EOD1. His story fully checked out, thanks to ong making him explain every detail of it. It all fit the history in the thread. I was left wondering if it was possible that rilla/rascal would do this. I came to the conclusion that it was plausible, but not likely, since rillawolf probably capable, but definitely not confirmed to play like that.

You gotta admit that rilla's choice of wuf was genius, though. Wuf is among the most likely to see it as what it actually was.

***
boozh confirmed always wolfy.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

boozh confirmed always wolfy.

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Heh, is that me?

BID did a really good job at casting doubt in D1. I fell for it because I was thinking pretty vanillaish.

boozh is the new booj

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

interesting to note, the dynamic did reveal bid to be a wolf. his d1 behavior was consistent with how he sometimes played villager 2 years ago, but when d2 came around and he ignored his d1 opinion, it showed that he was wolf.

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Noted

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Heh, is that me?

BID did a really good job at casting doubt in D1. I fell for it because I was thinking pretty vanillaish.

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If you're not playing in the next game, I'm not sure if I'll attack anyone on D1. I just don't think I have it in me lol

It's that fucking avatar, I'm telling ya

Hey beeuguh, remember when you were my avatar?

good times

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Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Noted

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id be highly impressed if you figured out a way to turn this into a strength or simply just not a weakness.

i dont mean it's a weakness for you specifically, i think it's a structural wolf weakness. wolves kinda have no choice but to go back for no rational reason on things they claimed earlier. the main endgame power the village has imo is looking for these inconsistencies.

if i was you in that situation, i dunno what i do. maybe i do a variation of what i said my wolf plan was for this game in the beginning. which would be for you and gabe to come out immediately on d2 bolding each other, both saying things that were exactly true about why your behavior was wolfy. you saying how gabe has to be a wolf because gator/wuf wasnt and gabe saying you have to be a wolf because of how badly you wanted gator/wuf to die. this could then have set the stage for the village to take a second look and think that something really screwy was going on since no way both the wolves come out immediately and try to kill each other hard, right? this type of thing could possibly have gotten a second look at ong for poe reasons.

im not saying this would have worked, but it is the only type of way i can see avoiding the inevitable amnesia you had to have over your d1 opinion.

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Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hey beeuguh, remember when you were my avatar?

good times

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Heh, wolfy character that old avatar of yours.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

id be highly impressed if you figured out a way to turn this into a strength or simply just not a weakness.

i dont mean it's a weakness for you specifically, i think it's a structural wolf weakness. wolves kinda have no choice but to go back for no rational reason on things they claimed earlier. the main endgame power the village has imo is looking for these inconsistencies.

if i was you in that situation, i dunno what i do. maybe i do a variation of what i said my wolf plan was for this game in the beginning. which would be for you and gabe to come out immediately on d2 bolding each other, both saying things that were exactly true about why your behavior was wolfy. you saying how gabe has to be a wolf because gator/wuf wasnt and gabe saying you have to be a wolf because of how badly you wanted gator/wuf to die. this could then have set the stage for the village to take a second look and think that something really screwy was going on since no way both the wolves come out immediately and try to kill each other hard, right? this type of thing could possibly have gotten a second look at ong for poe reasons.

im not saying this would have worked, but it is the only type of way i can see avoiding the inevitable amnesia you had to have over your d1 opinion.

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fwiw i think this would have worked <10% of the time. you guys were in an extremely tough situation.

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Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

did you really forget about the game? I was inclined to believe you bc i felt your pain of ww + busy schedule, now i just need to know...

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Well sort of. I've literally spent every day doing this course and its kept me busy but I didn't exactly forget about the game.. :P

GG guys. I'm sorry about not being around much the last couple of days, but IRL got in the way.

Props to Rilla, Wuf and Gator for going with the villa counterclaim gambit. That made the game very interesting.

MVP goes to Ong IMO for really strong villa play here in looking at all the possibilities.

Thanks for modding JKDS, this was a fun and interesting game.

Rascal being away helped convince me he was a wolf. He's usually more active. Weird when IRL things become a wolf/village tell.

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Rascal being away helped convince me he was a wolf. He's usually more active. Weird when IRL things become a wolf/village tell.

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FYI, my posting amount is not role indicative. My only wolf game here on FTR, I was still one of the top posters.

What made me think you were wolfy was not seeing how at EOD, the game was locked with a gabe lynch. I'm just glad it worked out in the end.

Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure gabe was a wolf.

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure gabe was a wolf.

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Ong?

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Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Ong?

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I mean mathematically. Hoopy and I were on Gabe forever with no wolves bussing. Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure we were villagers.

Thanks for the great modding JKDS.

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Heh, when Hoopy wrote the wolfiest post in the thread, I thought that was game over. So wolfy.

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I'm the wolfiest villager ever. That post is practically howling.

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Originally Posted by BooG690

I mean mathematically. Hoopy and I were on Gabe forever with no wolves bussing. Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure we were villagers.

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Game was solved from our perspective, luckily we were able to avoided being mislynched.

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Originally Posted by Hoopy

Game was solved from our perspective, luckily we were able to avoided being mislynched.

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It was close though. At one point boog thought it was over, luckily he managed to get aubrey to rescind

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Originally Posted by Hoopy

Thanks for the great modding JKDS.

I'm the wolfiest villager ever. That post is practically howling.

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I'm super pleased that you embrace the wolfiness and all the mislynches that come with it. Never change :heart:

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Originally Posted by BooG690

Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure gabe was a wolf.

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Don't lie. Don't make me go through the thread quoting post after post where I refuse to believe gabe is ever a villager.

You fucking liar.

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Originally Posted by BooG690

I mean mathematically. Hoopy and I were on Gabe forever with no wolves bussing. Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure we were villagers.

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Yeah I was never certain about you. And you have to remember that from your pov, it's a lot easier. So fuck you, I deserve the gabe credit because I had him as 100% wolf despite having more options to choose from.

Suck it.

I've had a spliff now. My sincerest apologies for calling you a fucking liar and telling you to suck it.

I had Keith as a wolf off his first post.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I've had a spliff now. My sincerest apologies for calling you a fucking liar and telling you to suck it.

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ba ha ha ha ha ha, :heart: ong you lovable muppet

How long have you been back on the spliffs for? I seem to remember you switched to bongs earlier in the year...

I started smoking spliffs again at festivals during the summer. Bongs are impractical when dancing in a muddy field. Spliffs are so nice.

I'll quit them again one day. Just not today.

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Originally Posted by baudib

I had Keith as a wolf off his first post.

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You seem wolfy.

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Originally Posted by Luco

It was close though. At one point boog thought it was over, luckily he managed to get aubrey to rescind

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Hero play from both of them.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I've had a spliff now. My sincerest apologies for calling you a fucking liar and telling you to suck it.

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I like when you rant at me. Feel free, babe. Feel free.

Remember our first wolf game together? We genuinely disliked each other. Wonder if we can dig that bad boy up? I believe it was your first wolf game.

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Originally Posted by Hoopy

{Wufwugy BID Lilrascal Keith Gabe Ongbonga Rilla Hoopy Boog Supermonkeyface aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy BID Lilrascal Keith Gabe Ongbonga Rilla Hoopy Supermonkeyface aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy BID Lilrascal Keith Gabe Ongbonga Rilla Supermonkeyface aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy BID Lilrascal Keith Ongbonga Rilla Supermonkeyface aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy Lilrascal Keith Ongbonga Rilla Supermonkeyface aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy Lilrascal Keith Ongbonga Rilla aubrey Gator}
{Wufwugy Lilrascal Ongbonga Rilla Gator}
{Wufwugy Lilrascal Rilla Gator}

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So perfectly wrong.

Think my first wolf game was with jv and banana, but yeah I remember the game you refer to. That was early on too.

I never hated you boog. I only hate people who are dicks to me if they're not very funny about it. You've always amused me, so you have a certain charm.

I only ever really hated bikes from here. He was a dick, and unfunny about it.

Oh and lolz. Fuck that guy.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

I only ever really hated bikes from here. He was a dick, and unfunny about it.

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He was always nice to me directly. Directly. I have stories.

i used to think bikes wanted people to hate him

no nevermind this game, hoopman. we all know it's part of your master plan to lure ftr into a sense of security so you can stomp us when we least expect it.

ong did indeed have gabe's number, but honestly i thought his death would come much easier after i died.

when aubrey bolded boog i felt bad becuase of how sad she would be if that caused his lynch.