Operation: Ben learns poker and builds a roll

Thanks Robb :).

Just checked back to last months review, and I finished that month at $4.6k BR. I'm now just above $5.6k so barring a losing day tomorrow I should finish the month up $1k which would rock. Only $850 of that from actual poker, but still time to get the poker up before the EOM, so lets hope tomorrow goes well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

BR > $5k!

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nh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Why is my sig Op $10k instead of $5k then? Basically, $10k is when I plan to make my first withdrawal, which will be $2.5k (so I win 5 then withdraw half of it).

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nice plan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

I'm now just above $5.6k so barring a losing day tomorrow I should finish the month up $1k

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Great work mate.

Thats some solid recent BR growth ...

I sense greatness!

You seem so much more confident in writing and hopefully you will instill so much fear and dread in your opponents that only whales and stupid fools dare sit at your table.

Positional power poker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Why is my sig Op $10k instead of $5k then? Basically, $10k is when I plan to make my first withdrawal, which will be $2.5k (so I win 5 then withdraw half of it).

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Nice plan, I think I'm going to copy it lol.

And nice work on the 5k milestone, 10k isn't much further.

Yeah, plan is based off a system a mate of mine had for saving while paying off his home loan that we've borrowed. Anything he wanted to buy, he'd save double it. That way the homeloan kept getting paid down, but he didnt feel like he could never buy anything due to his mortgage. We've done the same on ours and its been great. Without some kind of system I tend to lose track and go through spending phases and saving phases and dont really progress as well as I should.

Thanks for all the congrats guys, it means a lot :). Definately feeling a lot more confident now Pawnalot, and its translating into my game. Strangely enough, a lot of that confidence translates into being confident to fold when I should.

Well, it took damn near 4 hours and over 1100 hands, but I got my last 1.5 buyins. Thats actually not a bad winrate (around 6-7pt/100) but it seemed slow. Almost every big hand I got failed to get action it seemed.

Flopped a boat with TT on T77 board 4 way and PFR bet, he has 7X or QQ+ always here. I call and he bets again on K turn, I discount QQ and if he has KK so be it. We're deep, so I figure I can flat here and expect him to bet pretty much all rivers, and a raise from me on river will almost certainly be called by his range and get all the money in.

Rivers a T.

I mean, I love getting quads, dont get me wrong, but the board is now 77TTK. I dont get any action here from anything other than KK. He checks, I bet about 3/4 pot because its a spot where he either calls or doesnt, and he folds and abuses my call on the turn putting me on a bare T, reinforcing my belief he had a big hand I'd have gotten it in with.

I dunno, maybe too tricky. Could probably have gotten it in earlier if he really did have the range I gave him though.


Anyway, I got there eventually. Finishing the month up $1004.70, thats now my 3rd month in a row I've broken $1k, so pumped about that as you'd imagine. Roll is around $5,800 so looking forward to a shot at 200nl shorty! Graphs and review to come soon.

siiiiiiiiiiiiick ben

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Flopped a boat with TT on T77 board 4 way and PFR bet, he has 7X or QQ+ always here.

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You should slow play big hands when villain's range is weakest, and raise big hands when their range is stronggggg. I know it's stating the obvious, but if this is your read here there is no reason in the world you shouldn't raise this flop. ESPECIALLY if there's a fd on there as well, but even if there isn't. I think people are more capable of folding a TT7 flop than a T77 flop or something.

Yeah, I agree, I dont really have a good reason for slowplaying it. I slowplayed because I expected to get it in anyway, but why not just go ahead and get it in fast? If he had QQ then an A or K could kill my action, likewise KK would slowdown on an A 160bbs deep.


Ok, heres my graph:
http://www.warlock.au.com/JuneGraph.JPG

Not really a lot to say that I havnt said already. 10 buyin downswing early. Some of that was bad cards, but some was tilt or just plain trying to force things and making it worse. I think to a degree I got used to hitting the nuts and improving back past people, and spewed a bit chasing when I should fold.

Most of the flat section in the middle was 50nl on Party. Took a while to adjust there. I'd gotten used to playing a more aggressive, creative style at 100nl, and suddenly I just had people who didnt fold and took a while to go back to a really basic v'bet style. I didnt actually beat 50nl on Party, just got comfortable and moved back up to 100nl and things went well from there.

Going to steal a page from Robbs manual and quote him from his op:

Quote:

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I think some of the others around here like Ben are well ahead of me in terms of understanding the game, but I feel like I'm really advancing a lot right now.

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Not sure if thats true or not, but gratifying for him to say so. Thought I'd comment on where I feel I'm at. It was interesting when I posted my last vid a while back, when DaGoat initially reviewed a video from a couple of months before that, and then reviewed the vid I'd posted. The first one he ripped to shreds and found a LOT of problems with. The second was much improved and he found a lot less problems total, and the issues he had were generally more minor. I really felt I'd improved a lot in that time, so it was good to see evidence of that. I think thats largely where I am now. A lot less mistakes, and the ones I make are smaller. Maybe a betsizing issue, maybe a bit thin on river v'bet, maybe checking behind instead of making a tiny v'bet, stuff like that. Its not that often I'll show something to him or Griffey and have them tell me its just a total mess anymore.

I think one thing I notice as an issue atm is, when I review some hands I come to different conclusions than I make at the time. Often to do with villains ranges, or more precisely what they must have on early streets to end up where we are on the turn/river. Its not that I'm not capable of working it out, its just that I'm not always getting it right in the time available during the hand. With a bit more time I do a better job. This is often the case when I show guys hands now. They come to the same conclusion I do which is good, but its the conclusion I come to away from the table, not the one at the table. Not surprising I guess, but thats probably the area I need to improve the most at the time. If I could play at the tables with the decisions I make away from the tables I think I'd really be crushing atm. I'm not sure theres any way to work on that other than just experience though. I know it comes, all through my poker career I've been able to make better and better decisions more quickly, so hopefully just sticking to small number of tables, trying to think through my decisions, and continuing to review hands later will help me to start making the correct decisions more and more quickly.

Beyond that, I'm starting to think ahead to my 200nl shot. Getting a bit nervous tbh. Not of the money, but I just suspect I'm going to find less fish, and better regs. By far I think the key to my game atm is my ability to exploit bad players. My game largely consists of avoiding good players unless I have a strong range, and taking money off the easy targets. This actually makes me quite exploitable I think, but most regs either cant work that out, or arent sure how to exploit it. That said, I'm not comfortable exploiting regs either. I do, but...in a pretty basic general way. I can pick whos isolating fish and 3-bet them, obvious 3-bet spots v's robotic blind stealing, and like I say in the big pots I almost always have a much stronger range than regs expect me to, but thats only half the equation. I really feel like sometimes I should have weaker ranges where they expect me to be strong. In short, bluff them more. In particular barreling them off weak hands, c/r bluffing more (I read Renton say once that he believes you should be c/r bluffing enough to be happy getting all in with TPTK on the flop if you c/r it). Basically becoming the guy other regs dont want to play against. It was nice to see Sir Pawnalot think: "hopefully you will instill so much fear and dread in your opponents that only whales and stupid fools dare sit at your table", but in reality thats not the case currently. I'm probably a non-entity to most, with perhaps a suspicion that I get lucky a lot (because again, I'll almost always have it or a huge draw when the money goes in). Thats something I need to work on, but not really sure where to start. Its higher variance, so I need to start by accepting that I'll lose some med size pots that I wouldnt normally be involved in. I dont want to drastically change my game, especially not as I move up, but I think I need to gradually work on these things.

Considering coaching, but the problem is I'd like coaching costs to come from my roll. Not much point moving up to 200nl at $6k and then drop $500-$1k on some coaching sessions right away. I'll probably take my shot first, hopefully play well and do ok, and maybe consider coaching once I'm more entrenched. If I fail dismally, maybe I'll have to consider getting some back at 100nl before trying again.

You're one of the good ones, Ben. It's easy to see why you're long-term successful. You stay motivated to learn even when you're winning and this op at times is like a "how to" for learning to think well about poker.

we still haven't crossed swords. If i was in nz i'm guessing we'd be at each other a bunch. One day....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

I really feel like sometimes I should have weaker ranges where they expect me to be strong. In short, bluff them more.
I'll almost always have it or a huge draw when the money goes in). Thats something I need to work on, but not really sure where to start. Its higher variance, so I need to start by accepting that I'll lose some med size pots that I wouldnt normally be involved in.

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maybe start to look at the spots where villains are always folding to your monsters. Are you in these spots with air sometimes? balance time?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Sir Pawnalot: "hopefully you will instill so much fear and dread in your opponents that only whales and stupid fools dare sit at your table"

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this is nice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

I really feel like sometimes I should have weaker ranges where they expect me to be strong. In short, bluff them more.
I'll almost always have it or a huge draw when the money goes in). Thats something I need to work on, but not really sure where to start. Its higher variance, so I need to start by accepting that I'll lose some med size pots that I wouldnt normally be involved in.

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maybe start to look at the spots where villains are always folding to your monsters. Are you in these spots with air sometimes? balance time?

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Thats kind of the problem. I dont have spots where people always fold to my monsters. Any time I think "I should raise here to represent a big hand", I stop and reconsider, because if I actually had a big hand there I'd raise it, because people just seem to pay off. I have cold spells where I dont seem to get paid much, but overall thats not a real issue. I think what I need to do is not so much generally have balance in spots, but pick the right times against the right opponents to introduce some balance that I havnt had before now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

I really feel like sometimes I should have weaker ranges where they expect me to be strong. In short, bluff them more.
I'll almost always have it or a huge draw when the money goes in). Thats something I need to work on, but not really sure where to start. Its higher variance, so I need to start by accepting that I'll lose some med size pots that I wouldnt normally be involved in.

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maybe start to look at the spots where villains are always folding to your monsters. Are you in these spots with air sometimes? balance time?

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Thats kind of the problem. I dont have spots where people always fold to my monsters. Any time I think "I should raise here to represent a big hand", I stop and reconsider, because if I actually had a big hand there I'd raise it, because people just seem to pay off. I have cold spells where I dont seem to get paid much, but overall thats not a real issue. I think what I need to do is not so much generally have balance in spots, but pick the right times against the right opponents to introduce some balance that I havnt had before now.

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idk I just raise anyway and get folds
you remind me of those people who go "mmm I'll 3b next hand... no wait he'll expect that *folds*"

Possibly, but then again I'm running at 14bb (7ptBB)/100 at 100nl precisely because people keep paying me off. I just think I need to make adjustments as I look to move up since I cant rely on this going on forever.

sick ben, keep it up

Tried some stuff last session. Didnt work so well. Not helped by a cooler though. Got better at picking spots as I went I think. I'll post some up later. I think part of my problem is once I decided I needed to play more aggressive, I started looking to do it almost all the time, instead of just sometimes. Still some trouble pulling trigger on third barrel without good reads though. Ahh well, up $30 after being down 2 buyins after settling down a bit.

Been thinking. Much as I want to put in a huge month and make lots of profits, I'm thinking July I might put a real focus on improvement. I've got some things I really want to focus on, and been reading old threads on ideas to help people improve. Means I wont get as many hands in, but hopefully I'll still move to 200nl and get some profits there. Probably start posting hands specific to areas I'm trying to improve in.

I've been pretty addicted to playing lately, and only so much time available, so we'll see how I go trying to balance it, but going to try to skew that balance to learning this month.

Ok, lets post some that worked and some that didnt:

Hand 1

Backdoor NFD plus I can bluff a spade:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($105)
CO ($194.55)
SB ($105.53)
BB ($105.26)
UTG ($69.32)
MP ($209.98)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
2 folds, CO bets $4, Hero calls $4, 2 folds

Flop: ($9.50) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
CO bets $6.77, Hero calls $6.77

Turn: ($23.04) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $15, 1 fold

Total pot: $23.04


Worked.

Hand 2

Villain has very wide range and is capable of folding postflop:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($139.70)
SB ($181.63)
MP ($17.10)
UTG ($125)
Button ($57.32)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, SB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($8) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $5.70, Hero raises $18, 1 fold

Total pot: $19.40

Worked.


Hand 3

Table just turned HU, no reads seems taggy. Figured he has a very wide weak range and I can blow him off. River seemed good since his calling range has to be tiny there, but it seems he had it.


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($119.38)
Button ($99)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
Button bets $2.50, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2, Hero raises $6, Button calls $4

Turn: ($18) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $11, Button calls $11

River: ($40) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $30, Button raises $60, Hero folds

Total pot: $100


Didnt work.


Hand 4

Villain has wide range pf and I have position. Float flop with backdoor draws, raise turn with draw planning to fire river if called, but whoops.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($87.91)
Hero (Button) ($100)
MP ($113.35)
SB ($269.80)
UTG ($155.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, MP bets $3, Hero calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP bets $5, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($17.50) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP bets $12, Hero raises $36, MP raises $93.35 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $89.50

Didnt work.


I think I like 1-3 well enough, problem with hand 4 is if he can think then my range isnt that great on the turn. Did I call pf and flop with AK? Or a gutshot with 89? Also AK is still in his range. Probably just fold pf?


Been back and read this thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...87.html#838927

Part of the problem is that I dont have such a wide aggressive range that I can play like recommended. I dont really want to completely 180 my game overnight to be a mega-lag like that either, so I can apply some things, but not others. Probably try to pick some brains on thoughts on it all.

Part of my problem trying to open up and play aggressive stealing game, is I find it difficult not to be results oriented. If something works then I obviously picked a good spot, and if something didnt work then I obviously picked a bad spot. Thats why its really important to work on ranges, which is a lot of what my 'improving' time will be devoted to. 'Wide range' and 'Tight range' really arent good enough.

Gruesome session, -$362 with aiEV of -$24, yes nearly 3.5 buyins below in EV in a single session. Bleh. Fun start to the month.

Think in general I've been trying to overdo things making some moves, so got to balance that more. That said, heres a hand that I think I got right, but maybe someone disagrees:


Villain is 23/13 with 56% fold to cbet. I've noted two hands where he's called in the blinds with a medium PP and called on A and K high flop cbets. Both those times I shut down (prev session), so I plan to double/triple barrel him in the right spots:


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($100)
BB ($100)
MP ($70.07)
Button ($192)
UTG ($140.82)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $2.50, BB calls $2

Flop: ($6) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls $4

Turn: ($14) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

River: ($30) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $23, BB calls $23

Total pot: $76

Results:
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (one pair, Jacks).
BB had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (two pair, Jacks and tens).
Outcome: BB won $74


Sigh. Did the second J mean I should slow down, or did he just station me?

If I was villain, I'd have folded - I think you picked a decent spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Did the second J mean I should slow down, or did he just station me?

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the turn T means your line makes no sense anymore, the second J simply confirms. What would you play like this besides AdKd? one card to the straight, paired board, you'd be blocking/check-calling/check-folding even aces here, right? how about AJ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Did the second J mean I should slow down, or did he just station me?

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the turn T means your line makes no sense anymore, the second J simply confirms. What would you play like this besides AdKd? one card to the straight, paired board, you'd be blocking/check-calling/check-folding even aces here, right? how about AJ?

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You really think villain is capable of this leveling?

What's up with your preflop sizing? I probably triple as well as played but I don't even get involved with a cbet tbh. Boards drawwy/he doesn't fold/we have a bleh hand.

That board is pretty brutal to barrel. Don't barrel in spots where their calling range can be super strong. In this spot, he can definitely be flatting 9x on the turn, and you're just owning yourself. Also, very little of his turn calling range is folding the river. What hands do you reasonably expect to call this turn and fold most rivers? (maaybe something like 7xdd, KQdd or something - but even then, the diamond got there now).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robb

You really think villain is capable of this leveling?

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dunno. It is bvb though, and hero would check a decent hand some street.

Hmm, yeah I see. I figured it was a scary board for him, but if he can think then he can work out my range is monsters or bluffs.

Spent most of today thinking/chatting/reading about poker. Thanks to everyone I hassled for spending time :). I read a fair bit of SSNLHE, over halfway through now. Trying to take notes, but a lot of the book is in the form of examples. I'm getting it printed so hopefully just rereading it a bunch will help as well. Felt really good when I finally actually played some tonight. Much more confident in my game, which is really just slightly tweaked from my game last month rather than the mess it was the last couple days.

I have two main things to work on. I need to open up slightly more PF, combined with tightening up a bit more in EP, and especially open up my 3bet range a bit. Not too drastically right away, but it needs to be at least a bit wider than it currently is. As Griffey said people should just fold to me all the time, but I actually see a flop nearly half the time I 3bet, which is probably why its fairly weighted towards value.

Main thing to work on is my postflop aggression. Its really sunk into me that I play mainly fit or fold postflop. I need to increase my cbetting, raise more, attack weak ranges, etc. This is obviously all a bit more vague than widening PF ranges. I dont want to go overboard immediately, but do need to focus on it. Any advice people have would be appreciated :).


Heres two hands from tonight, first is a 'how would you play?' one, next is just brag/fun.


Hand 1

Villain is an aggressive TAG with only 50% fold to 3bet (over 1k hands, but I think most are mined).

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($102.35)
BB ($28.20)
Button ($101)
UTG ($24.37)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, Button bets $4, Hero raises $13.50, 1 fold, Button calls $10

Flop: ($29) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $22, Hero raises $88.35 (All-In), Button calls $65 (All-In)

Turn: ($203) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($203) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $203

Results:
Button had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: Button won $200.50


I felt if he'd hit we were getting it in anyway, so given he's aggressive I might as well try to pick up any bluffs in his range first.

Bleh, thats like my 4th 100bb+ flip I've lost in a row. Course next one doesnt show in aiEV but its some +ve luck.

Hand 2

SB is same guy from above, he has 13% 3bet and about 17% in the blinds, he's squeezed an UTG open and folded before this session. BB is 38/28 over about 1k hands but early on table for him think all those hands are mined. He also has about 13% 3bet but even higher in the blinds.


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($146.66)
MP ($100)
SB ($117.20)
BB ($277.31)
Button ($19.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
Hero bets $3, 2 folds, SB raises $13.50, BB calls $13, Hero calls $11

Flop: ($42) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB bets $23, BB calls $23, Hero calls $23

Turn: ($111) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $51, Hero calls $51, 1 fold

River: ($213) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets $189.31 (All-In), Hero calls $58.66 (All-In)

Total pot: $330.32

Results:
BB had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (two pair, Kings and Jacks).
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (four of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: Hero won $327.82


Weee! My biggest pot ever!

Hand 1 seems like either a c/c or b/f before a shove. I probably c/c. Since he's 50% he either calls a lot with PP or "tweener" hands like, well, AJs. If we check, he shouldn't be bluffing like at all unless we have a huge read he can bluff with PP on a scary ass board for a lower PP.

Bluffing monotone boards can be good. In this pot, he could think that either we're going to commit or fold. So firing one barrel with the intention of giving up afterward isn't completely illogical.

Besides, we have so much equity on the flop that it would be a sin to fold. I had my questions while I was reading the HH, but after some thought I like it as played after the flop. Preflop I raise to 16 or 15 and change.

Hmm, thats 3.5x which is standard, but v's someone who calls 50% of the time a bit larger wouldn't hurt.

You realise we have 2nd NFD + gutshot kmind? Against a bare ace we're favorite, against 2P we're 49%, against JJ or TT we're 43%. If he has AA we're still 36% and thats highly unlikely. The only hand that crushes us is exactly AxKs, and a guy with 13% 3bet is fairly unlikely to not 4-bet that bvb.

Ok, I mentioned spending a bunch of time looking/talking about my game, heres a round up of some of it. All of these sample sizes are since April 1 (I made my big improvements mid April), around 40k hands.

First, my position stats:

http://www.warlock.au.com/Stats.JPG

I've already spoken about this a bit, but worth repeating. Theres almost no difference between my UTG range and my CO range, and not a huge difference OTB. I'm running 21/15 over the sample (higher PFR now, about the same VPIP). I'd like to get my PFR up to 18-20, but cut my UTG range significantly. Basically plan is much tighter UTG, a bit tighter UTG+1, looser (around 21%) in the CO and much looser OTB (around 35%). Now those arent set in stone. If the BTN is tight I can open up in the CO a lot more, if the BTN is loose I'd need to tighten up a bit (unless he's exploitable postflop, but position matters). The SB probably ends up as my most variable position. If BB is too tight I can open up almost ATC when folded to me, but if he defends then I dont want to be OOP postflop, so highly variable. As a general rule I think I'd like a stronger range than expected there, but we'll see (talked to Griffey about SB and he pointed out that it doesnt matter how you actually play, any time you raise in the SB the BB assumes you're stealing).

Those stats have worked for me, but I want to make it better.


Next, I ran through the HEM Plugging Leaks 1 article:

http://www.warlock.au.com/PlugLeaks1.JPG

VPIP peaks between 22 and 25 so I want to increase that, but my current plan should handle that.

PFR max profit is between 16 and 18 but the level above that is skewed by maniacs, so probably between 16 and 20 is ideal, so I need to increase that a bit, but as mentioned my plan for position changes should handle that.

My aggression and aggression % are both in the cellar. Most people with such low aggression are losing players, I'm in the bottom bracket for both. I think I need a combination of c-betting more, and raising/c'raising more, both for value and as bluffs. This is probably going to be the most uncomfortable area to work on, but I think it'll be worth it. Heck, I think its neccessary.

My WTSD% is high, but thats probably a result of being so passive postflop checking down more than usual, so as I up my aggression this should come down naturally. My W$SD% is high which is nice, but again I'm checking down a lot of A high, med PP hands which are winning small pots rather than finishing those hands earlier, so cant take too much out of that.

My W$WSF (won when saw flop) is low. Especially when I just call PF I'm playing too much fit or fold.

3bet is obviously much too low, we all know that. My 4bet range is actually kind of high in the top bracket. Article says thats a good thing, but in reality I dont play a lot of people 3-betting too much so I think in my particular case it could even be a touch high.

My call 3bet % is too high, but not by much. I'm working on cutting that down already.

My fold flop to raise is really low. I think because especially on Everest people were so bluffy, but I do need to increase that and call less without reads. That said, because I cbet so little, I will have a stronger range than most when I get raised.

Turn Cbet % is pretty good, but again because I dont cbet much I end up on the turn with a stronger range after cbetting flop, so I'll need to keep this % much the same even when I cbet more or it'll drop.

The fold to cbet stats arent really clearly defined as whats best in the article, but I think its fairly clear I probably should fold flop slightly more. I tend to 'call and evaluate' a little too much. Not sure its a big leak, but something to keep an eye on.


So, as I said in my brief summary yesterday, the main changes are my PF range changes, and my postflop aggression. Most of the rest should come into shape if I work on those.

Something that needs to be addressed a ton is your aggression and WWSF%. At $100NL and up, particularity at $200NL/$400NL, you will be playing more HU and less multi-way, which will decrease the profitability of SC's and Axs hands. These hands will require you to actually take down more pots without making a hand in order for them to be profitable when calling/raising pre. There is probably a few hands in your opening/calling ranges that are this way now, and are the reason we need to have a 40+WWSF%. If you don't find ways to win pots without hands, the more regs and better players you face, the harder it will be to beat the stakes. The difference in a -2BB/100 winrate and a 2BB/100 winrate could be this change alone.

Definitely agree. Its more a combination of learning how/when and becoming comfortable doing so. Chatted to Spenda about it briefly (he was fairly distracted), and his phrase was something like "its easy, just be creative". And it does sound easy. Like the sort of thing I'd expect to be good at. That said, I either seem to pick the wrong spots, get too discouraged by shortterm failure (i.e., maybe the spot isnt bad but this time they had it), or pick a spot but then not pull the trigger. To quote Iopq "idk I just raise anyway and get folds", I dont want to just randomly start raising on a whim, I want to understand when and why a time is good to raise. I mean, we saw in that last hand I posted. I decided I needed to barrel more, picked a likely target and fired 3 shots the first chance I got without really considering the board or my range. I should try to avoid that and pick spots where 3 barrels makes sense.

You're opening LESS from MP than UTG? D:

Anyway, 17% is probably fine from UTG
but MP should have a higher VPIP always even if by a few percent
your PFR in the CO should be in the 20s
and if you're that loose from EP might as well VPIP from BU in the 30s

otherwise you're playing kind of backwards where you're relatively looser than most people UTG and tighter OTB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iopq

You're opening LESS from MP than UTG? D:

Anyway, 17% is probably fine from UTG
but MP should have a higher VPIP always even if by a few percent
your PFR in the CO should be in the 20s
and if you're that loose from EP might as well VPIP from BU in the 30s

otherwise you're playing kind of backwards where you're relatively looser than most people UTG and tighter OTB

---

did you come up with this yourself or are you quoting what Ben already said right after he posted it?

lol. MP is only 1% less than UTG. I think because if I find myself running really nitty at a specific table, I'll open up some UTG because I expect to get a heap of folds due to how tight I've been and my position, whereas MP I just play as I normally would.

Ran fairly nitty today even after working on ranges yesterday. I think because I still fold OTB a lot if raised in front, so my 'range' only gets played when folded to me. Gotta work on that.

you know my 6-max history...
but i'll give it a go. I'm referring to my July 6-max stats as i do this (9k hands of 19-15 nittery, an experiment vs 23-20 earlier), but not cos i think they are in any way ideal. Instead, i think that the/any differences could bring out interesting discussion.

Position. VPIP & PFR
SB I'm 25-17, which is close to you. I think we're doing more or less the same, so i'm guessing there is huge room for improvement for you here ;) I'm just not entirely sure what/how

Early. Wow. You open too wide. I'm 14-14 and trying to get it lower. I mean, sure, it works, but position becomes more and more important as opponents become more aware of it...

middle. wow, you open less than utg. hmmm. I'm 16.4-15.4. I know you've noted this already, and think you know how to fix it.

cutoff. I like this.
Button. I like this too, except the low 3-bet stat. While playing as an uber-nit I'm 26-22 with 5% 3-bet. Otherwise it's nearer 30-25-8. Punish the loose-weak CO stealers who won't adapt. Then adapt as they do. Then stack them with AA. Etc.

WTSD-W$SD ok these stats show that you're making your money from stacking fish (more or less). So many people have stated that 52-53% is ideal W$SD cos otherwise you're losing value. But I know where you play, and can definitely see an argument for this style. Hell, I'm 58% over this sample. Inference is an over-reliance on the fish though. Compare this to http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...-graph-286574/ (link from iopq)

Aggression. Early positions this is too low, and this is a symptom of your ranges in EP being too wide/weak.. i go from 37% utg to 26% button, i wonder if this drop is standard. I think so. Makes sense when i think about it...

main stats
your analysis of aggression needs to distinguish post flop aggression from pre-flop. I think it's partly to do with weak ep ranges (above) and even more to a distinct lack of balance/bluffs in your play. But when it's all about value-stacking fish, this may not matter?

WTSD being high is a symptom of passive postflop, yes. But what is this a symptom of? I think (i have similar things going on) that it's about a mindset of thinking in hand strength rather than range strength, only betting tops of ranges, not getting thin enough value, etc. Like, if you bet middle two and villain folds top pair then wtsd drops, non-showdown goes up, etc. And once there is a feel in the air that you may be betting without the nuts, then chaosearns$$

3-bet is interesting - 5% may actually be the hardest to play against - see discussion at the end of June graph thread

Well, you touch on where I am basically. Yes, my $s comes from stacking fish. I do it well :). V's passive fish I check down a lot of 'probably good but little to no value betting' hands (A high, underpairs, etc). V's aggressive fish I c/f a lot unless I have a good bluff catcher or strong hand. Where I am at the moment is trying to change my game from a purely fish stacking game, to one that competes well against decent players also. Decent start, but have to keep going. My redline is definately showing improvement which is a good start (not yet positive, but nowhere near as sharply negative anymore).

Some hands:

Hand 1

Stacking fish. This is how I used to make most of my $'s. High fold to cbet, but high bet when checked to:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($121.13)
BB ($530.41)
MP ($125.49)
UTG ($123.29)
CO ($44.50)
SB ($97)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero bets $4, 2 folds, CO calls $3

Flop: ($9.50) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($9.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
CO bets $4.51, Hero calls $4.51

River: ($18.52) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
CO bets $8.80, Hero raises $44, CO calls $27.19 (All-In)

Total pot: $90.50

Results:
Hero had 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, Aces).
CO didn't show Q8o
Outcome: Hero won $95.51



Hand 2

This ones probably standard for a lot, but for me its new:

28/19 with a high bet when checked to:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($164.13)
CO ($525.41)
BB ($100)
SB ($126.87)
Button ($121.79)
MP ($100.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
Hero bets $3, 2 folds, Button calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9.50) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $6.77, 1 fold, Hero raises $19, Button calls $12.23

Turn: ($47.50) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $30, 1 fold

Total pot: $47.50

Results:
Hero had 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero won $75.13


Hand 3

An example of where I used to play Fit or Fold too much:

21/17 32% ATS from btn, 83% cbet.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($100)
Button ($114.92)
BB ($267.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Button bets $4, Hero calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($9) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6, Hero raises $18, Button calls $12

Turn: ($45) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $30, 1 fold

Total pot: $45

Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won $74

I've been reading everyone's analysis and don't have much to add except that I've been working on my game, too, and will post some thoughts in my op. Some things worth noting based on others' analysis:

I agree w/ Daven on 5% 3b - it's hard to exploit someone who's playing like this (especially if they're positionally aware and aren't just jacking up the overall number w/ mindless resteals from blinds). I've tried both higher and lower - that's about where I come out as most playable for me personally.

SB/BB VPiP's are somewhat dependent upon the passivity of the games we play in and might be 5% or more different for the SAME PLAYER at two different sites depending upon the overall agro/passive nature of typical opponents. This is especially true for SB. Table selection can change it noticeably but by about 1-2%. Something to think about - there's really no SB/BB VPiP nirvana, in my mind, just a range of acceptable values.

How about from now on you dont bother replying to this thread unless you actually add something?

Fun little 45 min session before I head down to my gym prior to lunch. 345 hands, $272 up. Ran like god, but also got really aggressive v's some regs, upped my 3betting a lot and pulled off some nice plays postflop. For now though, brag time! 3 hands within 5 minutes of each other on same table:


Hand 1

24/16 but real aggressive postflop which is why I just flatted turn. If he'd bet river I'd have raised ai no doubt, as it was I decided he's bad enough to call a big bet thinking I'm bluffing more than a small bet for value.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($100)
CO ($128.16)
MP ($100)
Button ($155.20)
SB ($220.68)
UTG ($128.33)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3, 1 fold

Flop: ($9) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $7, Hero calls $7

Turn: ($23) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($53) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $40, SB calls $40

Total pot: $133

Results:
SB didn't show K3s
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $129.50



Hand 2

Now I'm a bit deepish, villain is 17/15 with 43% fold to 3bet. Normally insta 3-bet but this deep I dont think AKo does well v's his stack off range, and I dont want to play too big a pot OOP. Rivers close, I almost value bet hoping for calls by worse and can fold to a shove, but thought I might get value from bluffs still. If I'd checked stats he very rarely cbets river so maybe v'bet would have been better.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($167.75)
UTG ($92.13)
MP ($273.29)
Button ($160.16)
BB ($126.83)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $1, MP bets $5, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($16) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $10, Hero calls $10, 1 fold

Turn: ($36) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $22, Hero calls $22

River: ($80) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

Total pot: $80

Results:
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (one pair, Kings).
MP didn't J :h: 8 :h:
Outcome: Hero won $77.50



Hand 3

This is only a few hands later, same villain as hand 2. 200bbs deep, so I think even offsuit QK is nice IP v's him.


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($212.80)
BB ($101.63)
UTG ($234.79)
MP ($161.66)
SB ($103.33)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG bets $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $4, 2 folds

Flop: ($9.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($21.50) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $15, Hero raises $40, UTG raises $85, Hero raises $162.80 (All-In), UTG calls $102.80

River: ($427.10) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $427.10

Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (straight, Ace high).
UTG had 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (straight, Jack high).
Outcome: Hero won $424.60


And there we go, only a few days after my previous biggest pot ever, I beat it by almost a buyin!! :banana:


:shipit:


[edit] I'm now a couple hundred over $6k which which was my 200nl shot mark, but going to take a suggestion Jyms gave me, which was to finish working through SSNLHE first and then move up. Gives me extra time to work on some stuff that should help beforehand while I finish off.

OH man... villain 3betting 78 there with those stacks on that board is soooo brutal. But yay to biggest pot ever, congrats!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Hero won $424.60


And there we go, only a few days after my previous biggest pot ever, I beat it by almost a buyin!! :banana:

:shipit:

---

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($199.08)
Button ($167.43)
CO ($12.98)
SB ($90.94)
UTG ($149.22)
Hero (MP) ($223.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $3, CO calls $3, Button raises $15, SB calls $14.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $50, CO calls $9.98 (All-In), Button calls $38, SB raises $75.94 (All-In), Hero calls $37.94, Button calls $37.94

Flop: ($286.80) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (4 players, 2 all-in)
Hero bets $132.81 (All-In), Button calls $76.49 (All-In)

Turn: ($439.78) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (4 players, 4 all-in)

River: ($439.78) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (4 players, 4 all-in)

Total pot: $439.78

Results:
Button had 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, nines over eights).
SB had 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (three of a kind, nines).
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, nines over Jacks).
CO had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (three of a kind, nines).


Outcome: Hero won $492.60





WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!!!!!!!!

I would never ever log off that table until those guys left!!

gotta enjoy the two buyins above ev in that hand jyms...

OK, at work today so no real poker updates so thought I'd just ramble for a sec.

I think I'm finding a much better balance in regards to opening up my game. I've had a few times now when I've had position on regs and forced them to leave my table(s) which is pretty satisfying. I've also forced a couple to tilt which is profitable. As far as getting creative postflop, calming down, playing solid ranges, and just picking the right spots rather than all the time has been working well. That said a lot of the ones I show people they still find faults with, so I have a ways to go yet.

Picking up some really good stuff from SSNLHE, and from some recent BFP vids. A focus of mine the last couple days has been representing bluffs when I value bet. Hand 1 of mine above is an example. Normally I might have bet river smallish, say $20 to get a crying call from a K, however thats fairly transparent even if it probably works. On the other hand, when I bet large as if I want him to fold, he's going to wonder if I had TJ or something and am now bluffing and look me up light. Not the clearest cut example of it, but you get the picture. I've probably made almost a buyin of extra profit beyond what I'd normally have gotten by using this ploy in only 3-4 hands so far. Obviously that adds up quick in a bb/100 sense. This isnt just mindlessly betting big in the hope they think I'm bluffing, its picking spots where I can credibly represent a bluff based on the actions so far.

Whilst I've been focusing on some things, I'm also thinking about others which I havnt really implemented yet, but will as I go. One of these is the concept of a 3-bet/fold value range. I play a lot of villains with around 50% or less fold to 3-bet. A lot of these are tight 4-bettors which indicates they call a lot of 3bets (or too many anyway). In the past (and currently tbh) my 3bet value range is exactly the same as my stackoff range. In other words, when I 3bet I'm either bluffing or ready to stack off. I should however be 3-betting hands that are ahead of their calling range even if its behind their 4-bet/stackoff range. For instance I dont 3-bet AQ because I dont want to stackoff when I'm way behind their range, however if they'll 4-bet AK, then I'm well ahead of AT/AJ/KQ/TJ type hands they might call with, and whilst I'm in a 50/50 pf situation with 77-JJ type hands, they'll often have to fold postflop even when they're ahead. This should allow me to get a much better balance into my 3bet ranges and should be profitable. Picking the right times to 3-bet these v's flatting them and playing a strong range postflop will be interesting.

Personally, I think I'm finally healthy. Damn, I've been sick for about 6 weeks I think. Everytime I felt a bit better I'd hit the gym or do some work outside and the next day come down crook again. Been a week now with gym every day and I'm feeling fine (just sore). Since Christmas I'm down about 7kg (16lbs). Been a gradual process, nothing serious just less junk in my diet and whilst I havnt been consistant with exercise, I havnt completely stopped either. Am taking things more seriously now and hoping to drop another 5kg or so, which will get me into the best shape I've been since my teenage years. I'm currently at the kind of point where pretty much everyone else would consider me to be in good shape, but I want to get into great shape. Feeling great though and really happy :).

Good stuff all around, keep it up!!

Took a shot at 200nl today. Probably only played about 45 mins, got deep on a couple tables with the same aggressive deep opponent on both so decided to call it a day. Think I played well, a bit nitty but probably a result of having aggressive players who 3bet a fair bit IP on most tables. That said I still openned up a bit, didnt totally shut down. A few 3bet bluffs and a 4bet bluff that went wrong ( http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...37.html#910837 ). Made a pretty big call down v's a guy I recognised from 100nl as being well capable of 3barrelling:

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($200)
Button ($403.29)
UTG ($217)
BB ($447.30)
MP ($298.32)
CO ($235.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG bets $8, 1 fold, CO calls $8, 1 fold, Hero calls $7, 1 fold

Flop: ($26) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $18, 1 fold, Hero calls $18

Turn: ($62) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $42, Hero calls $42

River: ($146) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $149 (All-In), Hero calls $132 (All-In)

Total pot: $410

Results:
Hero had 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (two pair, eights and sixes).
UTG had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Hero won $407


So wouldnt say I played with scared money, but I did play a little cautiously overall I guess. Up 1 buyin over the 260 hands so nice start. Bit disappointed about that 4bet hand as I'd have finished up $300 if I hadnt got involved in that, but then again if he'd folded to the 4bet I'd probably be patting myself on the back.

1 session of 100nl and 2 sessions of 200nl. Ship my biggest winning day so far, $580 up.

Needed it, dropped $200 yesterday :p.

Congrats Ben, glad your hard work is paying off for you.

Thanks man :).

So 200nl. Feel like I should write up my thoughts on it so far...

Its kind of strange in money terms. I'm generally fairly comfortable with the money on the table. Happy to stack off when I should, make plays and bluffs. The money doesnt affect me then. When I check my results though, it sure does. I made over $500 on both Saturday and Sunday. Thats $1k+ in a single weekend at a point when I'm still happy as Larry to make $1k in a month. That said, $1k is only 5 buyins. Thats short term varaince FFS. Mentally I still have some problems equating the two. Dropped 2 buyins this morning and at the time I was 'meh, lost a flip and a cooler or two' but then when I broke to play Gauntlet I see thats $400 down and WTF! Thats most of yesterdays profits gone!! Dunno, I guess over time that'll change. Hope so. Like I say it hasnt really affected me on the tables yet, but it has potential to mess with my head/emotions away from the table.

Play seems ok. Regs are a bit tougher, little more capable of thought, but still capable of making stupid plays also. Fish are fewer on the ground, and I often 'settle' for a 40/9 fish instead of finding 50vpip + guys.

Anyway, ran bad this morning, one suckout and it felt like cooler after cooler, including someone hitting a 3 out on river in 3bet pot. Any time I set a trap and it worked, they'd end up hitting some kind of runner runner hand. Crappy day, then I boated up v's a straight ai on turn and then won a flip with AKs v's 99 v's fish for half a stack. That brought my aiEV back to even for the month (had been running bad), and made me only $200 down for the day. So lucky recovery there.

Oh, I also was in a winning hand in Party's Genius promotion, $5k split 6 ways for $833 shipping my way :).

Again, seems funny. $833 is obviously an awesome little bonus, but by same token its only 4 buyins. Weird in my head.

Seeing it in terms of buy ins is the best way to stay sane as you move up. Don't worry if you start to lose respect for money cause it'll happen and it's another factor that keeps you level headed as you trudge though day to day varience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Oh, I also was in a winning hand in Party's Genius promotion, $5k split 6 ways for $833 shipping my way :).

Again, seems funny. $833 is obviously an awesome little bonus, but by same token its only 4 buyins. Weird in my head.

---

withdraw the $833. Then it will feel a lot more like $1k aussie. So, how does that affect the rakeback calcs?
nh

Thanks meeloche. I must have given that advice a thousand times myself (although usually to micros about treating the games seriously). I think I do at the tables, 100bb effective I'll raise, 150bb hmm maybe should just call kind of thing, just gotta work out the right way to think of it away from the tables. I'm wondering if now is when the advice to ignore my balance session to session really comes into it. Like just check once per week to see how I've gone. Dunno. Hopefully like some other issues it'll sort itself out over time.

lol daven, you know I didnt even do that maths, but yeah a touch over $1k aussie. Makes it sound even more impressive :D. I think I've cleared $300 of my welcome bonus so far, so the rakeback % just flew up a fair bit ;).

I've turned into a nit...

I made adjustments to tighten up in EP and loosen up in LP which at first glance seem successful, but overall its left me playing even less hands than I used to. I'm running at 18/13.5 so far at 200nl, even with 30% ATS. I guess I need to open up even more in LP and maybe slightly more in MP. It already seems extremely wide with just pure trash in there a lot.

It occurs to me that my ATS% is quite a bit higher than yours, and with a 50%+ success rate. I posted my positional stats in my op thread, can we see yours and compare notes?

Ok, heres mine, first my PFR when unopened:

http://www.warlock.au.com/NitUO.JPG

Then positional stats overall:

http://www.warlock.au.com/NitPos.JPG

So you can pretty much see where I've gone wrong. My stats for unopened hands are about what I was aiming for, but I haven't taken into account the hands that get opened ahead of me. I guess this means I need to actually open up a heap more in LP when folded to me, plus throw in some more 3bets/etc. That ends up being an incredibly wide range but I guess thats whats required.

That said, I've been playing with some numbers in my head. Not entirely sure of the maths, but even if you have two aggressive opponents 3-betting 12% in the blinds, then theres approx 25% chance you get 3-bet. If they never call, that means 3/4 of the time you win the blinds. If you raise 3x then you risk 3bb to win 1.5 so 3 times you win 1.5 (4.5) and one time you lose 3, for net total of 1.5bb. That obviously doesnt take into account when we get called, but then again it also doesnt take into account the times we actually have a good hand or either flop well or take flops down with cbets. It should be profitable against all bar the most aggressive opponents to play basically ATC (folding enough so its not obviously ATC and convincing them to play back more often).

I'm giving up all tourneys except Gauntlet and maybe the occassional micro 180 on stars until/unless I'm prepared to put in time to getting good at them.

Kmind suggested I post some hands, so I'll post a variety.

Hand 1

One of those hands that seem bad, but cant really see another way to play. Villain is the reason I sat at the table, but its literally my first hand.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($293.25)
Hero (BB) ($200)
MP ($248.10)
UTG ($200)
Button ($322.50)
SB ($157.94)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, Button bets $7, SB calls $6, Hero raises $25, 1 fold, SB raises $40, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($101) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $110.94 (All-In), Hero calls $110.94

Turn: ($322.88) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($322.88) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $322.88

Results:
SB had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (two pair, Queens and nines).
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (straight, King high).
Outcome: Hero won $319.38


That was nice, win a flip (I'm actually 54% there). Then this shitty hand happens about 4 hands later:

Hand 2

Seems pretty std v's TAG.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($293.25)
Hero (BB) ($361.44)
MP ($245.10)
SB ($57.31)
UTG ($203)
Button ($315.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
3 folds, Button bets $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $5

Flop: ($15) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $9, Button raises $27, Hero raises $61, Button raises $281.50 (All-In), Hero calls $238.50

Turn: ($632) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($632) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $632

Results:
Button had 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (flush, King high).
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $628.50


So within first 2 minutes of playing I've won a flip for 150bbs and lost a 60/40 for 300 bbs. Just kind of the story of my session. Its not that I didnt win flips, but that I won small pots and lost big ones.

Next biggest loser was AKo in the SB v's TAG BTN he 4-bet calls with 99 and holds up for around 110bb effective stacks.

Hand 3

Hand 3, last real whinge hand, opponent was probably drooling on his keyboard the way he played.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($307.36)
BB ($360.64)
UTG ($350.58)
Button ($97.05)
MP ($221.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, Button bets $4, Hero raises $13, 1 fold, Button calls $10

Flop: ($30) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14.25, Hero calls $14.25

Turn: ($58.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $68.80 (All-In), Hero calls $68.80

River: ($196.10) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $196.10

Results:
Button had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (full house, Kings over Jacks).
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $193.60

Hand 4

This ones pretty bad by me, but wtf at villains holding, TAG stats but quickly realised he's a very distrustful player:

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($230.75)
Hero (SB) ($204)
UTG ($268.36)
BB ($367.43)
Button ($200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
2 folds, Button bets $8, Hero raises $26, 1 fold, Button calls $19

Flop: ($56) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $29, Hero calls $29

Turn: ($114) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($114) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $88, Button calls $88

Total pot: $290

Results:
Button had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, sevens and fours).
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Button won $287.50

I think I should just shove that turn. Bleh.

Fortunately this hand came up v's the same guy shortly afterwards:

Hand 5

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($204.75)
BB ($200)
Hero (SB) ($213.30)
MP ($302.92)
UTG ($418.18)
Button ($295.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, Button bets $7, Hero raises $23, 1 fold, Button calls $17

Flop: ($50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $33, Button calls $33

River: ($116) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $88, Button calls $88

Total pot: $292

Results:
Button didn't show 77
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (full house, Kings over fives).
Outcome: Hero won $288.50

Hand 6

I like this hand for my hand reading, but PF I cant think why I just completed. Definately not standard for me, maybe I got distracted or something.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($324.43)
MP ($228)
BB ($136.63)
Button ($452.53)
UTG ($203)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, Button calls $2, Hero calls $1, BB checks

Flop: ($6) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4

Turn: ($14) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $9.97, Hero calls $9.97

River: ($33.94) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $16.12, Hero raises $50, Button calls $33.88

Total pot: $133.94

Results:
Button didn't show 9To
Hero had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Outcome: Hero won $131.94


Then I had a few hands like this:

Hand 7

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($360.27)
Hero (SB) ($486.02)
MP ($295.74)
UTG ($200)
CO ($290.27)
Button ($274.09)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
3 folds, Button bets $7, Hero calls $6, BB raises $24, Button calls $19, Hero calls $19

Flop: ($78) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $56.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $56.25

Turn: ($190.50) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $93.75, Hero folds

Total pot: $190.50

Results:
BB didn't show
Outcome: BB won $280.75


Hand 8

And this

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($243.41)
CO ($224.50)
BB ($230.50)
Button ($246.07)
SB ($377.71)
UTG ($239.69)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG calls $2, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8, 3 folds, UTG calls $6

Flop: ($27) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets $18, 1 fold, Hero calls $18

Turn: ($63) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $40, Hero calls $40

River: ($143) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $100, Hero folds

Total pot: $143

Results:
CO didn't show
Outcome: CO won $239.50


Wasnt all bad. I got paid with quads (80bbs). Just felt like I was hardly hitting hands, not getting paid if I did, losing the 100bb+ flips, winning the small ones, spewing some $s like the last 2 hands. I dunno. Down $300 for the session (1.2k hands) and over $500 down on EV.

AKcc hand - I'd just ship turn, no other bet size makes sense even for value there

KJ hand - after flop checking, the turn card brings a card where his entire range is bluff catching or has it. So just bet bigger, 40 on turn and almost pot on river.

why are you leading hte flop in hand 2

Hand 4, we're repping a 7 on the river and there's just no way we show up with a 7 here. Do we even have a value range here?

Hand 7 and 8, fold flop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

why are you leading hte flop in hand 2

---

This guy only had about 30% cbet so I dont want him checking behind on such a wet board.

Griffey, thanks good points.

dev, I dont think I'm only repping a 7, but I admit its a bad hand all around. Theres a lot of stuff I could have in my range that beats him, but nothing that I'll often have.

hand 1 Kd8d
squeeze standard here? I don't mind folding, calling, or squeezing though. And not calling $15 into $100 seems like it would be silly too.
Flop, wow, you gotta call.

hand 2 AhJh
TAG is c-betting this flop all day with his entire range. He's folding vs a donk with a bunch of his range. Why the donk? As played, this is draws and second best hands heaps of the time (AK/A8 more likely than AA/JJ/88) so getting it in is fine.

hand 3 AdAh
I prefer a small flop c-bet-call, but i guess that's just a style thing.

hand 4 AcKc
Again, i wonder at your flop check-calling after being the pre-flop 3bettor. I don't like the river bluff cos i would imagine you'd bet decent hands on the flop or turn (although hand 3 with aces begs to disagree ;)) Why not barrel turn?

hand 5 KcJd
nice.

hand 6 AsJh
I like every street post-flop. River is good, but only cos you completed in the sb. Would you fold to a 3-bet shove here? Reads on villain would be interesting, e.g. is he open-limping the button with weird hands? or?

hand 7. TdTs
Deep! And confusing. Pre-flop is this never a 3-bet for you vs the steal? The call is yes this deep, even oop. Flop I get lost between betting and check-folding

hand 8 ThTc
You raise 3x+1/limper as standard? Not a criticism, just a question.
I hate the flop check-call, and the turn even more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 1 Kd8d
squeeze standard here? I don't mind folding, calling, or squeezing though. And not calling $15 into $100 seems like it would be silly too.
Flop, wow, you gotta call.

---

Not standard, but then we've already concluded I need to start 3-betting and squeezing a lot more than I currently do. Reg stealing and fish calling in the SB seemed like a good spot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 2 AhJh
TAG is c-betting this flop all day with his entire range. He's folding vs a donk with a bunch of his range. Why the donk? As played, this is draws and second best hands heaps of the time (AK/A8 more likely than AA/JJ/88) so getting it in is fine.

---

Could be right, maybe I was overthinking and balancing a range I dont need to here or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 3 AdAh
I prefer a small flop c-bet-call, but i guess that's just a style thing.

---

Almost entirely a stats based thing. V's someone who stabs a lot when checked to this is std for me, but v's a station I'd just bet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 4 AcKc
Again, i wonder at your flop check-calling after being the pre-flop 3bettor. I don't like the river bluff cos i would imagine you'd bet decent hands on the flop or turn (although hand 3 with aces begs to disagree ;)) Why not barrel turn?

---

Flop c/c isnt standard for me here. In fact this could be the first time in 100k hands that I've c/c'd a whiffed AK after 3betting OOP. I think my head was out of the game at this point, whole hand is bad. I think with BDFD I should bet/fold flop and makes turn shove very easy, if I didnt have the backdoor then just c/f I think...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 6 AsJh
I like every street post-flop. River is good, but only cos you completed in the sb. Would you fold to a 3-bet shove here? Reads on villain would be interesting, e.g. is he open-limping the button with weird hands? or?

---

Table fish, limping lots of crap. Still cant remember why I just completed. As I recall he was 45/20 or something, so not entirely passive...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 7. TdTs
Deep! And confusing. Pre-flop is this never a 3-bet for you vs the steal? The call is yes this deep, even oop. Flop I get lost between betting and check-folding

---

Never has been standard, but I plan to start 3betting there more, however being a bit deep I think I'd still just flat. I'd be interested in thoughts otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

hand 8 ThTc
You raise 3x+1/limper as standard? Not a criticism, just a question.
I hate the flop check-call, and the turn even more.

---

Yeah, my std raise is 3x everywhere atm so I just add 1 for each limper. Against a total station I might vary it to be a bit higher. I think HU its closer to continuing. Stats got me here I think, this guy did stab 60-65% when checked to, but this is multiway so I guess he's less likely to. Save my chips and lose a small pot I guess.

Trying something new, which is to only not check how I'm going during a session. This includes taking winnings off my HUD, not checking session in HEM and not looking at my balance in the client. Hopefully this brings a combination of better focus and less concern about $s. We'll see how it goes. I may even extend it to not checking between sessions either, like go for a week between checking, but then its right there at the top of the client whenever I log in, so I'd notice sometime.

Last 1500 hands or so have been better I think (even though I'm down a bit). Around 21/16 again without loosing up in EP and my 3bet % is up around 5%. Its weird, it feels like I'm 3betting like a monkey, but I think it goes in spurts. Like I do a lot at the beginning of a session, then I slow down, then I realise I need to do it more so increase frequency again briefly before slowing down again. Hopefully this means I'll do it for longer and longer periods until it becomes natural.

Taking next week off work. Not sure what that'll mean for poker. Not going away but plan to get out a bit. Got a bit burnt/stressed about work which is why I'm taking a break (returning to a new role will help). Might try to catch up with some people for some sweat sessions or something.

Had a thought about the $800 promotion I won recently. I think I'll tag that to use for some coaching. Since it was basically free money, why not. On the other hand, I cant withdraw for a while, maybe a month or so, so cant actually free that money up for coaching right now. Will probably just wait till I can and see if I still feel the same way.

Rough session. Kept running into the nuts or making what I think were +EV moves and being called by crap but better hands.

Hand 1

Fishy but not terrible opponent. I dunno, I just cant see a better option on river v's someone who can turn up with worse hands here often enough I think.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($200)
BB ($292.75)
MP ($303.05)
Button ($224.95)
CO ($315.48)
UTG ($231)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, CO calls $2, 1 fold, Hero bets $7, 1 fold, CO calls $6

Flop: ($18) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO calls $12

Turn: ($42) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $30, CO calls $30

River: ($102) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $75, CO raises $150, Hero calls $75 (All-In)

Total pot: $402

Results:
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (three of a kind, Kings).
CO had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (flush, Ace high).
Outcome: CO won $398.50


Hand 2

Probably should have gotten away from this one. Meh, theres probably draws in his range but such a transparent line.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($337.85)
Button ($200)
BB ($305.95)
CO ($200)
SB ($260.10)
MP ($144.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
Hero bets $6, 1 fold, CO calls $6, 3 folds

Flop: ($15) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

Turn: ($31) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $17, CO raises $56.33, Hero calls $39.33

River: ($143.66) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $129.67 (All-In), Hero calls $129.67

Total pot: $403

Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
CO had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: CO won $399.50


Hand 3
Man, I donated so much to this guy. He was a maniac who seemed to have air in every hand like this v's everyone else and the nuts v's me.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($230.20)
Button ($421.52)
UTG ($349.08)
CO ($206)
MP ($282)
BB ($241.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
UTG calls $2, 3 folds, Hero bets $5, 1 fold, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($14) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $9, UTG calls $9

Turn: ($32) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $22, UTG raises $44, Hero calls $22

River: ($120) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $99, Hero calls $99

Total pot: $318

Results:
Hero had 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (full house, fives over tens).
UTG had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (full house, tens over fives).
Outcome: UTG won $314.50


Hand 4

Fishy 31/16 with 40% fold to 3bet. Only 30% fold to cbet on flop, but 60% on turn, so fairly sure this was good, but obviously not.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($121.03)
Hero (SB) ($201)
BB ($216.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
Button bets $6, Hero raises $20, 1 fold, Button calls $15

Flop: ($44) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $27, Button calls $27

Turn: ($98) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $97, Button calls $73.03 (All-In)

River: ($244.06) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $244.06

Results:
Button had 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (one pair, eights).
Hero had 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Button won $243.06

And people say they cant find fish prepared to stack off with 2nd pair...


Hand 5
This ones a bit more iffy. 31/26 with 15% 3bet and 90% cbet (100% in 3bet pots). I planned the turn c/r thinking if he bet $50 then I'd have $100 shove which gave me enough FE, but in the end he has only $84 into $300 so FE is almost zilch and probably only folding out stuff I beat anyway. Probably unlucky he had a hand as played, but meh, dont think its good.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($228)
UTG ($205.85)
Button ($200)
MP ($215)
BB ($198)
SB ($154.62)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $6, Button raises $20, 2 folds, Hero calls $14

Flop: ($43) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($103) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $66, Hero raises $178 (All-In)

River: ($235) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $235

Results:
Button had 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (one pair, tens).
Hero had 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Button won $231.50

[edit] I couldnt work out what happenned in this hand for a while because I assumed I should have lost $200. The other guy timed out and got disconnect protection. On one hand that saved me money, but I cant help but suspect he did it deliberately to avoid calling my shove...

Overall I dont think I played well. Trying to get more aggressive, but just dont think I'm finding the right spots.

I'm now only up about 2 buyins over nearly 4k hands of 200nl so going backwards.

Feel free to comment on any hands ;).


So I played another 1.5 hr session this morning, to finish about 20bbs up after 500+ hands. Nice to book a win even if its small, but been really hanging out for a good winning session. I feel like I've basically been playing break even poker at 200nl. Down $600 from my peak 3k hands ago. Started to get to me, demoralise me a bit, mess with my confidence. Driving in to watch a movie today I came to a decision.

Fuck it.

I'm going to beat 200nl, and beat it well.

I spent all my time at 50nl and 100nl considering myself a 200nl player without a big enough roll. Now I'm there I've started thinking of myself as barely good enough to play 200nl. Thats messed up. I'm well and truly capable of beating this level, and then moving up and beating 400nl. Some of my losses have been bad bluffs as I try things out. Just gotta accept that. I'm going to fuck up and get it wrong sometimes and its going to cost me. Thats part of my learning costs. No different than paying for coaching or vid sites. I'll get better. Moving up AND making changes to my game at the same time is always going to introduce variance (I started working on changes before moving up, but still definitely a work in progress). I need to stop thinking I need to do anything much different. I checked out the top winners at 200nl on Party in my mined hands, and frankly couldnt see much difference between their game and mine. In fact their positional stats looked more like mine used to be. Mentioned this to Jyms and he pointed out that my play isnt bad at all. Kinda woke me up a bit. I have a winning game. Crushed 50nl, crushed 100nl and started well at 200nl. Thats not all just running hot. I need to tweak and improve my game always, but playing the spots I'm comfortable and doing what I do well, and introducing changes gradually is all I need to do.

Doesnt mean I expect results to start coming immediately, some of its variance, cold deck, whatever, but if I can focus in and play good poker I'll be a winning 200nl player just waiting for the roll to move up ;).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

I couldnt work out what happenned in this hand for a while because I assumed I should have lost $200. The other guy timed out and got disconnect protection. On one hand that saved me money, but I cant help but suspect he did it deliberately to avoid calling my shove...

---

e-mail party support with the hand number/hand history and your suspicions.

I considered it, but it felt like complaining about a guy not calling a push when I was well behind seemed strange.

Damn, took a big hit tonight. Nothing went right. Not all of it good play by me, but deck hated me for sure. After that big speech, I think I'll be back to 100nl for a bit after all.

-$1k day :(.

Didnt play at all today. Feeling a little more settled. Sure yesterday sucked, and somewhat only have myself to blame, but that still only makes me break even for the month, and down 2.5 buyins at 200nl. Not ready to give it up yet, but for sure will only be playing when I feel good for it.

Don't fret man. We're all experiencing stuff like this. I mean 5 buyins isn't even bad, especially at 200NL.

Slow and steady. Read the book, watch a few vids and get back at it