The violent gets violenter and the naked women get naked womener. It's great.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
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The violent gets violenter and the naked women get naked womener. It's great.Quote:
Originally Posted by rong
Re wuf: not going to say much about this since I dont wanna spoil and im not saying if the dany/jorah relationship is.important or not. But good god man. We get it. If jorah loves dany, it doesnt make much sense due to the way its been portrayed. One post suffices to explain this, not 17... -___-
Not trying to be a buzzkill, just wow.
This wouldn't be the first time I've been tricked into thinking that when 2p2ers express opinions, they're doing so from a position of intelligence. So yeah, it really should have been just a few posts
for the record wuf, I think you're right in that they haven't been setting it up -- but at the same time, he's a dude and she's hot, and HBO has many 13 yr old boys working for them so who knows wat could happen?
:mad:THOSE ISLAND CUNTS:mad:
the island cunt sister was awesome last ep, crushing theonbitch's dreams of holding winterfell like a femboss.
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I may or may not have come across a bunch of spoilers from the books, but I kinda don't care because I don't actually know and I predict the show is going to end up having deviated a lot from the books
Man I just snap avoid everything I read that might even be potentially spoiler material.
On a (surprisingly) completely unrelated topic, when I read dranger's last post I assumed he was referring to your posts itt. Apparently you went on at length about Dany / Jorah on 2p2. I find it hard to believe it took that much convincing, your point of view is relatively straightforward / consistent with what's been shown so far imo. I also wondered if he actually loved her, or just had a deep love for the idea of her, and was an honourable man bound by loyalty. F those 2p2 douches imo.
Where....where do you find these all wuf! omg <3
Got them all from this thread. If you haven't read the books, I recommend not going in there. I don't think there are any explicit spoilers, but some of the jpg material is made by people who have read the books. I think that I have figured out some things they have unwittingly posted that are spoilers, but I don't know for sure because it's mostly inference
MMA Underground Forums
Keeping on topic of the 2p2 hate, they also think Dany is a terrible actress. Which is retarded. She is supposed to appear as if she's overacting, so to speak, and a dramatic entitled brat. That's exactly how Viserys wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
Anyways, rewatched episode
I really like Robb, he needs way more screen time. His character and plotline is the kind you'd want to watch a movie about. So far he's had a ton of excellent lines and delivers them very well. Not sure how I feel about Talisa, but she's not my kinda girl, so I kinda don't care
Cat is a fucking idiot. I knew I never liked her for a reason. Her letting Jaime go is just unbearably stupid. Not just a dumb sort of stupid, but a crazy and destructive stupid. Anybody with half a brain should know that letting Jaime go is only going to hurt her ability to get the kids back. Bitches be crazy yo
I like seeing candid interactions between Tyrion and Bronn. Bronn is actually a pretty interesting character
Varys is awesome. Feel sorry for the guy not having nads n all
Instead of the Joker saying "Why so serious?" somebody needs to make a photoshop saying "Why so Stannis?" after Teh Joff gives him that red smile, ear to ear
Arya and A Man are a comedy duo
Cat lost her surname. She's a Tully now. Tully are worthless.
A girl owes one more name. The Red God demands it. Give the man a name.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
A GIRL CANNOT GIVE A MAN HIS OWN NAME
THIRD PERSON TALK MAKES BIKES FEEL COOL
Must say, Osha is kinda hot
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i have decided i really hope for an in depth ygritte/jon romance. it has all the makings for something great. not just because a good romance gets me all mushy, but that there's a great story arising out of the whole "you know nothing, jon snow" implication of it all
and i dont mean romance in the sap sense, but in the serious character development sense. nothing changes somebody like the experiences borne of love
I think you're bang-on (pun intended LOLOLOL I'MA SO FUNNY). Given the convo Jon had with the other captive crow whose name escapes me at the moment -- the bit where he implicitly encourages Jon to work his way into the good graces of the wildlings and put the screws to them at some later time -- it seems that he'll have plenty of opportunity to do the nasty with Ygritte. Would be kinda fun and shit, but I sort of wish these romances weren't always so telegraphed.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
EDIT: I've decided that there are a few possible twists that can develop from the Jon / Ygritte romance:
1) Jon falls in love with Ygritte, and ultimately can't betray her by turning against the wildlings. He sacrifices his honor for the sake of love.
2) Despite having strong feelings for Ygritte, Jon reluctantly opts to fulfill his obligations to the Night's Watch, and eventually turns on the wildlings. Possibly, Jon has to kill Ygritte in the heat of combat, ironically carrying out what he was meant to do with her in the first place.
3) Some other shit, I'm not a writer. obv
yesssQuote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
If I had to guess, it would be that a blossoming love corresponds with his realization of why he should side with the wildlings, but your way isn't too far from thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
Damn, son. That is. Fucked. Up.Quote:
2) Despite having strong feelings for Ygritte, Jon reluctantly opts to fulfill his obligations to the Night's Watch, and eventually turns on the wildlings. Possibly, Jon has to kill Ygritte in the heat of combat, ironically carrying out what he was meant to do with her in the first place.
I guarantee that's not gonna happen. It could make for an excellent story, but it's something that only a tiny fraction of creators would approach. I like dark and counter-culture, but that would take a lot out of me to make. Accidentally murdering your lover, especially due to your misguided honor, is a beast of a story to delve into
Great idea, but terribly hard to pull off. Most sad movies don't even come close to being that distressing
One of my issues is that I think they're gonna use Ygritte as a prop to drive the Jon Snow story. So she could serve her purpose then die off. I don't really like that. It's hard to say because you gotta kill off some important characters, but also some of the coolest characters are those who seem like they're gonna eventually be discarded e.g. Stannis, Tywin, Ygritte. Hell, the side characters are cooler than the main characters.
It's like if Franka Potente met Creepy ChanQuote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
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nooo
also, today is the day. I'm very excited!
what's not to like about creepy chan?
dunno I just googled it and apparently that's not an insult so OK
What a great episode. Until now they had skipped over most of the battles, making it even better to devote an entire episode to the siege on the iron throne now.
fuck fuck fuck is all I can say. Loras is a douche
Holy shit that wildfire explosion was amazing
Shae's got magic powers. She's gonna heal Tyrion or raise him from the dead or something. They have made too much of her involvement for her to go out like this. And she has told Tyrion about a billion times how she's not gonna let anybody hurt him. I've been getting the impression she's special in some way for some time now, but the beginning of this episode suggested to me it could be magic. Also, it's not the most likely thing in the world that they kill Tyrion, even if he dies in the books. I could see the show straying in this way, but maybe not. If he is dead, I'd say that's a weird death. It looked like it could just be a face cut, but it also could be that they didn't want their hero to get maimed.
Was totally right about Davos' son getting blasted by fire.
I'll find it so neat if Stannis is held prisoner, in order for Davos to save him he has to use Melisandre, whom he fucks in order to make another shadow baby
Really liking the Hound/Sansa thing. I hope to see a lot there. Inb4 he protects her then 2p2 says he's in love with her
I'll be kinda sad if this is the height of the Stannis Baratheon storyline. Looks like it could be, but there is another great place they could go from here. Basically, with Stannis out of the way, an alliance with the Tyrells, the Starks may be forced to move back to take out Theon, but then the Lannisters/Tyrells could push north and greatly outnumber the Starks. This could then coincide with Mance Rayder making some sort of alliance with the "bastard son of a dead man", then they march south and ultimately save Winterfell and the Starks
I still have no idea how to reconcile the two entirely different stories they're telling i.e. the human struggle for power and the magic/dragon/probably gods dynamic. I do think this is going to a somewhat specific place, just don't know where. I'm sure it'll end up very different anyways
I should clarify. I think they're taking it in a direction of an unbelievable showdown between great magic and god powers. Walkers vs Dragons, or something of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole thing gets way more dynamic though, things like some god avatars or something show up. I've thought that Melisandre could be a sort of avatar, or maybe Jaqen. But they are talking about the gods in interesting ways. So much of the mysterious stuff seems to be attached to gods. Like how Melisandre brought the God of Light, and how the wildlings "serve crueler gods than you or I" in reference to something the White Walkers were involved in. Found it particularly interesting when Jaqen said "by the seven new gods and the old gods beyond counting". These references are in an authentic fashion that could just be really damn good writing, but I think are more along the lines of being significant to the story than creating a genuine milieu
Also Bronn killing those two dudes was the best action choreography they've done yet. He's a great character. I think I got him vs Syrio in the finals match now
Wait, I thought Stannis was getting dragged off by the Lannisters. Were those his own men holding him back?
Hells yes
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Also I bet the last ep is equally fantastic, yet will show nothing of KL. Each different plot will have more air time too. So we have two cliffhanger eps; one of KL and the Lannisters/Baratheons, and the other will be of all the cliffs in the other stories
That episode was straight paper.
All I ever really wanted from Game of Thrones was to see people chopped in half by Clegane.
Who the fuck cut Tyrion?
Pretty sure that was Meryn
I thought the Hound/Bronn exchange showed that Cersei put a hit out on Tyrion. Hound made it clear he was there to kill Bronn. Of which the only reason for this would be if Tyrion was next
It was a member of the Kingsguard.
Oh, that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
The scene where Cersei is whipsering more sweet nothings about being king to her youngest child shows why Cunty the King is such a dick. Who turns out normal with those kind of thoughts pushed into their head?
I have figured out from the opening credits and HBO map that Qarth is about 1/3rd or 1/4th the way around the world from King's Landing. The southern pole also appears to be winter-less. In order to go from KL to Qarth, the opening credits curvature looks like it has to go pretty deep into the southern hemisphere, where it's all sunny and the ocean is even called the Summer Sea
"Old Valyria" has been mentioned as something to be "sailed past" and full of danger. This suggests to me that it's the southern pole-area they're referring to, and that it's equally as mysterious as the north. Where the North is full of snows that can cover entire castles and frost monsters (screen-capping the white walkers shows they look like they've had their faces frozen off), the South is probably roasting; I imagine highly volcanic. It is probably the source of the dragons, perhaps even giants, but giants are usually a northern breed. They have been mentioned, so they may make a comeback. The South is also probably host to a very peculiar indigenous human culture, similar to the wildlings of the North.
I'm guessing they will eventually open up more territory in later seasons, just as they opened up Essos in this season. My guess is that there is definitely stuff east of Qarth (the existing land is clear), and there is a vast ocean to the west of Westeros
I'm still confused, however, because the play between fire and ice isn't the same as the play between good and evil; yet the show is suggesting at both. This is why I really like my idea of one set of magic being the fire/dragon/southern side, the other being the ice/walker/northern side, then a third relatively new one that has never really been revealed before. So far the story does go along this route due to all the old lore holding up while this fresh new Lord of Light is actually really dark.
So yeah, if I was writing this there would be three different sources of magic
1. An amoral northern ice form that brings things like direwolves, bran's dreaming, can be corrupted into terrible things like colossal winters and white walkers that raise the dead
2. An amoral southern fire form that brings things like dany's fire resistance, and can be corrupted as has been used in the past by the Targs with the dragons
3. An evil, never before seen dark form found in Melisandre and the House of the Undying guy
The magic would be highly dispersed where a lot of different humans would have different weird manifestations of magic, yet some is trivial and some is not, some is used and some is not. There would also need to be balance between the fire and ice magic, which are the magics of that world; but they're becoming unbalanced due to rise of the new, alien, dark magic. So everything is starting to come to a head. Walkers rose from thousands of years slumber, dragons are born again, some people find they have powers that didn't exist before, and there's a really dark secret lurking in the shadows, a threat to the normal order of things
If I went this far, I would probably bring the gods themselves into it, but they would not be any sort of all powerful type of god we usually think of. Their powers and knowledge would be specific and capable of being marginalized in ways, and how they manifest would be unique. The old gods, for example, would not know much about the new Lord of Light who brings forth such darkness
That is, if I was writing this story...
Or it could be that there is both bad and good in both the fire and ice magics. That would explain why the dragons and dire wolves appear to be currently positive manifestations of those magics, while the Walkers are clearly evil ice magic and the Lord of Light adores fire so he really is just one of the normal southern fire gods
Looks like they'll be marrying Margaery and Teh Joff. I figured something like this would happen after she said what she did to Littlefinger, but I didn't like a marriage to Teh Joff because she looks like she's ten years older than him. However, that marriage would make for a really interesting story, so they should probably do it
Tyrion isn't really dead, is he?
He's not, right?
Right?
wuf, I'm not sure I agree with how you would write the story... I think involving the gods directly in this story would probably be a mistake. Mystery is good. However I do like how you've explored the different magics and what this all could possibly mean. In that same line of thought, notice that The Hound's face got the way it is by fire, and he pretty much froze up and all he could say was that the black water was on fire. Then later he tells his little dove that he plans to go north.
Also, keen eye on Cersei putting a hit on Tyrion. But I wonder if again, like many suspect the assassination attempt on Bran was orchestrated by Joffrey, he may have also green lighted Tyrion. Cersei already got his whore. Also, note that the only person we have seen The Hound and Meryn taking orders from is Joffrey.
There's a ton more stuff I want to discuss, but I need sleep now.
can't be meryn because sers mandon and boros were with tyrion.
also <3 ser dontos cameo
I generally agree. I am going with where I think they're going based on what they've already shown. A lot of how well it would go would be based in how well they could mesh. Things like a prophet or a priestess of a god is some level of meshing the god with the world because some of the god-powers and desires are manifested through the pseudo-avatar. I think we may already be seeing this in the story, but it is a stark contrast to an idea of gods where they "come down" and take their preferred form and do their own shit. That's a really tough story to sellQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
I don't really know how to play it, but I would give it some thought at least. Things like the White Walkers were humans who endeavored to be like their god, they got too close, then were stricken, and now they're some demi-god form of half-human half-monster. That's a really FantasyLand meets The Bible though. A lot of the lore in the Bible that some xtians believe is thought to involve shit like giants that were fallen angels who rebelled along with Lucifer against God long before Eve ever got close to the apple, and they roamed the Earth before the Flood, and the real reason for the Flood was to get rid of all the fallen angels that were fucking shit up. I'm not joking, some xtians do believe that.
I also remember really liking how the Rose of the Prophet trilogy did the gods. It's been so long since I read those, but they had a pretty great system that involved the gods being real and play some roles in some things.
You're right though, it would be terribly hard to do. I think we're going to learn more about the gods in GoT, not sure how much more though
I love how the bigwigs just charge into battle. Get the first ladder up? Stannis is the first motherfucker up there. Old man Tywin comes in all bloody from his many victims. If that's how shit actually went down, there would be a lot more turnover in leadership roles than there already is. I know they're supposed to be bad motherfuckers, but there's still a ton of variance in battle when things get chaotic. w/e, makes for good TV.
Hey, why wouldn't Tywin grab the iron throne? Shame for him to go through all the trouble of fucking up Stannis's shit just to return to his old worn down citadel.
Yeah this leaders charging first thing irked me aswell. Even after the wildfire bombardment he was in the first boat leading the landing party. That is just dumb, you just make it more likely to get hit by everything and die before you get anywhere. Such things stand out especially because everything else was done so well to make it feel real.
Another thing that made me chuckle was the tough guy in the room with Cersei and all the women. I don't know about anyone else but the first thing I thought when I saw him was "ok he is clearly there to kill all of them incase the war is lost". And then they proceed to act all secretive about his real purpose.. sorry but this particular thing has been done in many other movies before :)
Stannis charging in makes sense bc a) he's a legit badass and more importantly b) his host is reduced to dregs, given his combat prowess hIs participation could directly mean the difference between winning and losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Tywin, meh pretty unrealistic.
Wrt your second paragraph, it's a very common motif in game of thrones to set things up where things are obv to the audience but not to the players. This is a type of irony that I forgot the name of.
Agree. I also think Stannis is a straight up bawss and had been rooting for him throughout the last episode. The only reason to root for Joff not to die is that it would mean Tyrion would probably die too, and some other obv implications i.e. Cersei, Bronn, etc etc. So from a story perspective it was quite obvious that Stannis' army was going to lose the battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Yeah, after seeing what went down at the end of the last ep it seems like that might be part of the arrangement in return for house Tyrell's aid. Lucky for Sansa, her ass is already halfway out the door.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
For some reason I don't think I caught this and am feeling rather dumbfounded at the moment. Makes perfect sense though.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
I'm not entirely convinced that Cersei put a hit on Tyrion. Joff is more likely, but even then he probably realizes how useful Tyrion is. He probably just hates and respects him. Bronn, on the other hand. Isn't it possible that the Hound just had it in for him? The pair have, of course, not had much screen time together so it's hard for me to cite anything that's an obvious example of these two getting a hate on for eachother, but based on how the scene played out in the brothel, it kind of stands to reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
I don't know who any of these people are :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
Ed Stark's rolling head says GRRM could have killed or set to the wind every major character in King's Landing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
Yeah, true. Call it retrospective cockyness on my part or what have you. I really wanted Stannis to win, but I refused to let myself believe it because of how I thought it would distort the ongoing story lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
So will his death. It is a common movie thing and it makes you look cool and bad-ass, but it is just not realistic to put someone like that in front, when they have to charge through a hail of arrows and rocks to even get to the opposition. You can put your generals and commanders in front to lead, not the guy who is there to become king.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Yes but that is not really what I mean here. It looked they were playing this off as being a surprise to the *audience*.Quote:
Wrt your second paragraph, it's a very common motif in game of thrones to set things up where things are obv to the audience but not to the players. This is a type of irony that I forgot the name of.
While I agree it's foolish to expose such a weak spot to battle where Stannis falling basically arrests the entire army, it's not as if warrior-kings haven't been perpetually on the front lines before.
http://i.imgur.com/1Z9XG.jpg
Not uncommon at all for medieval-era nobles to lead armies into battle. Notably, Richard the Lionhearted was more renowned as a warrior/soldier than politician. It was actually pretty difficult to kill fully armored knights, and certainly really damn hard with the melee weapons used in the Battle of Blackwater.
pay attn to the show penneywise!
The fact that he was so renowned for it shows it was not common at all though. I do fully agree that it is a lot more forgiving to be more exposed in medieval times because it is harder to kill someone, in later times with the advance of ranged weapon technology people of note would not go anywhere near the front lines anymore because they would just get sniped.Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib
But still there is a notable difference between being a strong warrior king who fights alongside his men, and actually leading the charge into ranged weaponry, that is tactically not very sound. Or be the first to climb up the ladder in a siege. He could have very easily been killed there by people throwing down boulders, it is simply not worth the risk given they are all there with the solo purpose to make him king.
Stannis did all that shit without wearing a helmet! BAWSQuote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
but I doooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
I just suck at names. And it's near impossible to locate a site that keeps track of the characters without spoiling what happens to them in the future. So far I've avoided major spoilers, dunno if I want to risk that shit again.
At one point I remember finding an HBO-Storyline spoiler-free list of characters and their backgrounds but trying to find it again... I mean even via a google search... well you know.
Edit: So it's just occurred to me that you may be referring to my 6th-grade-level understanding / interpretation of events in the last episode. For that I have no excuse, lol.
I think it has more to do with some of the choreography being off due to a limited budget. If this was Ridley Scott making the seige of Jerusalem, Stannis being on the front lines would have been more believable. The way it looked in GoT was that there was almost nobody defending where Stannis was, so it looked like a sore thumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Anyways, they've always been telling a story of Stannis being the most stalwart person in the history of forever. He's the first to put up the ladder because he's the rightful king, not because it's smart. Also, I think their plan was foiled by the wildfire i.e. Davos and several others were meant to be the first at the wall, but Strannis realized he had to go first in order to win
There's a story of the US general in charge of the Pacific front in WW2 being confused as to why the attacks he kept sending out were not successful, he found out that the soldiers were so scared of the Japanese that they weren't even flying to the targets, they were just flying to a perimeter then returning, without seeing any combat. Then the general put himself on the first ship of the attacks, and the missions began succeeding. Morale in war is a huge deal
I think we'd need to ask a book-reader to let us know whether the depiction of Stannis being relatively unprotected / unescorted on the battlefield was either a story or budget-driven element. Either way, I found it relatively believable.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Stannis' troops probably still had a numerical advantage after the wildfire business; they have however a decided disadvantage in terms of equipment and overall cohesion. Recall that 2/3rds of his troops had been fighting for Renly just weeks earlier. They also generally looked more scraggly / more poorly equipped than their Lannister / city watch opposition. Dunno, but it seems likely that these disarrayed troops might shit the bed in the heat of the moment in terms of keeping their king well-protected.
Besides, it looked fn cool to see Stannis trying to hold the wall on his own for a little while.
I think people were surprised because of it being a show, not how the story developed. What I mean is that nobody expects the main character to die because shows don't kill them, but the storytelling actually made it pretty clear Ned was probably gonna dieQuote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Tyrion is not dead because that would be terrible storytelling. There is so much more he has to do based in what has been happening. The same goes for Davos; if he's dead, the writers are bad and should feel bad. The story they should be making here is Stannis has to go back to Melisandre and do it her way, and Davos has to struggle with the reality that he may have to "fight against" his king in order to save him
While I wanted Stannis to win, it would have been kinda weird because the story they're telling means that he had to lose so he can go back and bring the dark magic with him
So here's a list for the finale
- Robb can't die because of the love story for Talisa. If it wasn't for that, him dying would actually be a pretty reasonable proposition by way of making the hidden Bran the lord of the region. Another reason he kinda can't die is because he's supposed to be king, but if he dies, that whole thing goes with him. They could get around that though, but not the Talisa story. Talisa, however, could die and send Robb into some fits, but that would be lame storytelling. One of the ways Robb could die is if the books used different sorts of storytelling styles and they go into his and Talisa's love, yet still put an end to it in a sort of Romeo and Juliet way. A book can do this well, but this show would be making a big mistake if Robb died now
- Bran and Rickon can't die because duh
- Osha and Hodor can't die because they're largely messengers for the Bran/Rickon story
- Snow and Dany obv can't die
- Jorah actually could die. None of the storylines hinge upon him living. I doubt he will die though because it would throw the dragon story into something I don't think they're trying to tell
- Stannis and Melisandre can't die because they're the vehicle for the dark magic
- Davos can't die because he's an important counter to that dark magic and Stannis. Plus, his character building and screen time is too much to go out like that. I mean, they could kill him without devastating some stories, but it would be pretty awful writing if they did. Also, Davos' personal sigil is important. This isn't storytelling so much as like the Direwolves simply stating that somebody is important. Davos' sigil is not as important as LF's though because they used that to tell something about his past, whereas LF's is telling something about the future IMO
- Varys can't die because he knows too much and is a medium for tying things together for both the characters and the audience
- Littlefinger can't die because of his sigil, but other than that maybe he could since the Tyrell relationship has been brokered. However, if he did, this would be terrible writing because he's clearly an extremely important character for just about any plot. One of the reasons GRRM could kill Ned and Robert and Renly is because they were straightforward and easy characters to make. Littlefinger is not
- Cat can't die because she needs to stick around to make terrible decisions. Actually, she probably could die. It wouldn't be that great though because she should be used as an important counter to Robb, Lady of Winterfell, Tully, lots of reasons she should be kept around for the future. Also if she dies the Brienne thing is dumb. The Brienne thing isn't pivotal though so Cat dying wouldn't be completely stupid, just a little stupid
- Sansa can die because her Dire Wolf is dead, but that's a dumb way of looking at it. She should actually be one of the most unkillable characters in the show due to all the things she's "been taught". I think Sansa is being written as a naive girl who grows up to be one of the most powerful women in the world
- Teh Joff can't die because his death has to be fucking awesome, and so far nobody is in a position to make that happen. Granted, that dynamic may not have been portrayed in the books, but for the show, the writers need to realize that everybody hates him and wants to see him get his comeuppance the right way
- Arya obviously cannot die because Syrio taught her one of the most important lessons there is
- Jaqen can't die until he puts that final name under ground. There is, however, a whole lot of ways they could take his story because even though he brings loads of mystery, it doesn't have to be explained, nor by him. I have him as a really special character though, so he's not dying. If he's not magical, I don't know WTF this show is doing. In a way, actually, he seems more like some variation of a demi-god than magical. His extreme levels of mystery, rules, and how he makes people dead in weird ways shows he may be privy to special knowledge and reality manipulation powers
- Ygritte could die, but only if the writers are idiots
- Jaime and Cersei are probably the most expendable characters. Nothing hinges upon them, and KL is getting pretty crowded. Cersei is almost redundant by now, especially if Teh Joff marries Margaery. Jaime is also redundant if Loras becomes Kingsguard.
- Tywin also could die. Some Lannisters are gonna have to go. I don't really know how I'd do it though. The problem with the storylines the Lannisters are significant for is that they are aksi begging to be turned on their heads. Some of them could die, and things would still go on. Their stories could be twisted up, and things would still go on. So something could happen there. I just hope it's not Tywin since he and Tyrion are the only cool Lannisters (well and Jaime, but kinda meh). I think they may be making a small side story out of Tyrion gaining respect from his father too
- I don't care about Shae. She sucks
- Bronn could die, but again that would be terrible writing. You don't kill off your most interesting characters. Ned was not interesting, Renly was hardly interesting, and Robert was simply funny; those guys can die, not guys like Bronn, not yet
- Hound can die, but I don't really like it. Also, Hound could be Sansa's new dire wolf. Think about it... Hound... he's protecting her... Anyways, Hounds main story could just revolve around Sansa, but as to how much, that's anybody's guess. He shouldn't die, however, because again he's super interesting and there's a ton they can do with him
- Theon can only die as soon as a Stark puts his head on a stake, but I'm not sure when that's gonna happen. They could tell his story as a very swift downfall, or as a really long struggle with his family and his actions. Personally, I'd probably go the latter route because you can develop much more there, and instead of seeing Theon make all these bad decisions then be punished due to them, we'd see him make even more and have to come to terms with them and even start trying to fix them. He really could die in any ep though because the Greyjoy "invasion" really only looked like it was just a drive-by and the way to show Theon's downfall
Damn that was a long one, think I covered them all
Yeah battle logistics and choreography is something I try to not care about because the staff almost never know what they're doing. Because I've watched so much MMA, I can't even watch fight scenes anymore because of how unbearably unrealistic they are. That would be why I was impressed with Bronn killing those two guys; while it was still a little unrealistic, they made it very wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
Probably the best action scenes I've seen were when Sanjuro quickly cut his opponent before he saw it coming, when Clint Eastwood quickly blasted the three dudes in what I think was Fistful of Dollars, and Erik Ponti in Ondskan
Any comments on Arya's buddies i.e. the fat kid and Robert's only living bastard (again, whose name escapes me)
I could actually see this bastard kid going places in this series. Arguably, despite being a bastard he has a pretty good claim to the throne, and I think we've seen some really decent qualities in him over the past season. He doesn't quite have the nuanced character development of some of the others as of yet, but, provided he lives on, there is still time for that. I see him being an important character in the future.
And not dying, obviously.
oh by the way, I don't see Cersei dying, at least not yet. Recall Tyrion's "(...) will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you will know the debt is repaid" shpiel, seems like this will take time to carry out. If Cersei dies before anything happens on that front, obv providing Tyrion himself is not dead (can't see this being the case), then that scene is a bit pointless. The meaning changes from Tyrion rightfully expressing his desire to get back at Cersei for being such a bitch and threatening those close to him, to Tyrion putting on a bit of a show just to act like he's pissed and dissuade Cersei from digging any deeper and actually finding Shae. meh
Shae was already made before that gay dude interrupted. She's done for. Cersei is looking for a special girl somewhere, and she can kill anyone for fun and pleasure, and then tell Tyrion to see if he still has his pokerface.
I think Gendry is pretty important, and will eventually father Arya's son. I think this was suggested at in ways like when Ned gave Arya that talk about how she has to be a good little lady, but she didn't want to. Yet comes in a dude she actually likes, who's also a secret Baratheon. I don't think Stannis can hold the Baratheon storyline as long as it needs to be held, and bringing in Gendry, especially if he's wedded to a Stark, would create a very compelling dynamic for the Baratheons in the latter seasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
That's a good point. I feel that it was more about developing the characters and setting the stage than foreshadowing though. Cersei appears that she's eventually gonna die, but maybe not really soon. I'd say Jorah and Jaime are the most expendable, but not by a lot.Quote:
oh by the way, I don't see Cersei dying, at least not yet. Recall Tyrion's "(...) will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you will know the debt is repaid" shpiel, seems like this will take time to carry out. If Cersei dies before anything happens on that front, obv providing Tyrion himself is not dead (can't see this being the case), then that scene is a bit pointless. The meaning changes from Tyrion rightfully expressing his desire to get back at Cersei for being such a bitch and threatening those close to him, to Tyrion putting on a bit of a show just to act like he's pissed and dissuade Cersei from digging any deeper and actually finding Shae. meh
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if a big character doesn't die in the finale. It's not like that's a thing, or anything; it's more that lots of people are overestimating what Ned's death meant. I could see GRRM writing the second book with a "is Tyrion dead" cliffhanger so as to really get his audience's goat, because he did the same thing in book one, but then when book three came around it turned out he was just trolling and Tyrion is really alive
This is similar to what I've thought about Shae i.e. how expendable she is. But the problem is that if she really is that expendable, the writers were kinda dummies with her. I mean her dialogue is like half count to potato. She keeps saying how she won't let anybody hurt Tyrion. There has to be a reason for that. I mean it could be to just make what kind of person she is, but that's a weird way of doing it. It makes more sense to me that she has some serious secrets. My guess is she quite literally has magic powers that could keep people from hurting Tyrion. He may be in a coma, she may bring him out of it; she may heal that face scar, she may bring him back from the dead. There's gotta be something there IMO. Otherwise she's really just a dummieQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Edit: I was too slow for my comment to still be relevant =(
Yes but be careful about using anecdotal evidence. Napoleon is considered one of the greatest generals of all time, and he never inspired morale by fighting in the front lines. Neither would Julius Caesar charge ahead of his troops into a siege. I do agree stannis needed to boost morale after the big hit they took from the wildfire, but what would happen if the best marksman of the city watch put an arrow through his eye? Morale would be gone, they might aswell return to their ships and sail back home.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Personally I liked Tyrion's charge better, he knew their morale had tanked when Geoffrey was sent to his room by his mommy, so he did what he had to do to get them to fight. On that note, I wonder how badly hurt he got. I think it will just leave him a battle scar and he'll generally be fine, going down in a battle is his thing afterall. Can't spell pimp without imp.
George Washington was on the front lines rallying his troops in various Revolutionary War battles, most notably the Battle of Princeton.
Joan of Arc led the charge in most of her battles, sometimes with a scant force against fortified towns.
In most medieval battles, particularly in sieges, you weren't expecting or even hoping to annihilate your enemy, but rather, show overwhelming force/decisive troop advantage that would force the enemy into retreat or surrender according to chivalric terms.
Granted, the stakes are going to be much higher in an engagement such an invasion of Kings Landing.
To use a poker analogy, this is like going all-in on a gut shot. All the ones that have died because of this didn't make it into the history books. the ones that did survive were all the more epic for it. Joan of Arc took an arrow in the neck at a siege against the English in Orleans and came back later to lead the charge and win. If the arrow had killed her, we just would have never heard of her as an iconic figure. Fact remains, the king climbing up the ladder first in a siege is really dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib
Yes depends on the set-up of the battle, the people involved and what is at stake. For example medieval castles were built as a reaction to the invasion of the vikings, who weren't very chivalrous and just murdered everyone.Quote:
In most medieval battles, particularly in sieges, you weren't expecting or even hoping to annihilate your enemy, but rather, show overwhelming force/decisive troop advantage that would force the enemy into retreat or surrender according to chivalric terms.
Granted, the stakes are going to be much higher in an engagement such an invasion of Kings Landing.
WHY ARE YOU DEBATING THIS OMG. damn nits
In the real world, Stannis would have had much better armor, fortification of the gate would be much better, they'd be dropping hot tar and fire over the walls onto everybody, Hound wouldn't have taken his attack party out of the gates, and Stannis' first ladder would have for sure gotten knocked down
The budget is a huge, huge deal for many of the battle problems. But FWIW, I think they did it pretty well. Only a handful of large battles on screen have ever been good. I was dreading the battle scene since the first episode because almost nobody does them well. GoT has been up to HBO standards though. It's not on the level of what Spielberg and Scott can make, but it was very good considering that TV fails at all things fighting/battling
As for why Stannis did what he did, it's well within reason that he believes in himself like that. Like when Davos told his son to "not tell Stannis he's not a god". Even though Stannis' actions are largely silly, it's okay because that's his character. He's the world's most stalwart badass despite the fact that the main reason he's not dead is luck. If he wants to go up the ladder first, he's doing it; and his decision to do so have little to do with how safe and smart it is
This thread was too cordial, some good arguing was needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
I can't even remember being this enthralled by a battle, especially if you consider how long it went on. Lack of realism has always irked me (Mel Gibson picking up a flag and running through the battlefield = suddenly the lost war is won?) but despite the budgetary shortcomings this really delivered well on that front.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I can understand the gut reaction of "omg Stannis going first is so unrealistic!" But in light of historical characters and events, it just isn't that silly. It's obviously a bit more fantastical than reality, but I think it's fully believable within the fiction and within the bounds of the character.
Anyways, let's either move on to some other nittery, or highlight some badass moments/one liners.
Davos, "They want to play music with us? Then let's play. Drums!"
The Hound, "Fuck the King's Guard. Fuck the city. Fuck the King."
"Hundreds of men will die!" Big Baws Stannis,"Thousands."
I want nittery!
There was no steam for the wildfire on the lake. NO STEAM. Water + Fire = Steam! Should have been steam. This show sucks
The Hound: "If any man dies with a clean sword, I'll rape his fucking corpse."
Cersei: Everything she said was epic IMO, but especially the line to Sansa, comparing her to a slice of cake.
BTW, if you're into movie battle scenes, and I obviously am, I really think nothing compares to the epic grandeur of the LOTR battles. They're also probably the most unrealistic outside of a Mel Gibson movie.
Other favorites are "Glory" (best civil war movie IMO) and "Saving Private Ryan" (D-Day landing is incredibly horrifying). "Enemy at the Gates" is unique for two reasons: 1. shows the terrifying badassness of legendary snipers and 2. gives you an idea of how the Soviets could lose 20 million people in a war -- everyone was used as cannon fodder.
His acting in this scene was fucking legit. He does calculated intensity extremely wellQuote:
Originally Posted by boost
roffle you doofus everybody knows wildfire burns so hot it melts the steamQuote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
Yeah Saving Private Ryan is pretty much GOAT in this category; every single action sequence is mega. I remember the siege of Jerusalem in director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven being really good. Also Gladiator had some of the best small-scale battlesQuote:
Originally Posted by baudib