Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks fantastic.
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Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks fantastic.
Who knew that my original favorite RPG as a child would grow up to be a big kid one day?Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDam
At first peek, it looks to be an improvement on Skyrim as far as world design and game mechanics are concerned.
I'm a bit pleasantly surprised by Nintendo on this one.
The gamer podcasts I listen to are raving about the new zelda and many of the people haven't liked Zelda games since Super Nintendo. They have stated that they finally took in feedback for past Zelda failures and also open world failures and put together the perfect open world Zelda game. If I wasn't traveling and could buy a switch and Zelda, I would in a second. It looks amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
What is it about this game that makes people who haven't liked Zelda since SNES rave about it? Like, what are the "past failures" in those games that BotW improved on? Majora's Mask may be my favorite video game of all time.. and OoT is just classic perfection. I've played the older games and newer games (Zelda was also my favorite growing up, it was an extremely formative part of my childhood) and loved them all. I remember Wind Waker got shit on a lot, but I thought it was great. I always viewed the LttP purists as being hindered by their nostalgia.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
I haven't kept up with Zelda as of late though b/c I simply don't have the time I used to for games, and I love Zelda so much that it would be hard to me for casually keep myself up to date without fully immersing.. if that makes any sense.
I, regrettably, am one of the nostalgia nerds who still thinks original gold-cartridge LoZ is my favorite of the series. Also regrettably, I haven't even played the SNES or N64 titles. So clearly I can't speak to any failures of MM and OoT.
I can speak to the current game w.r.t. other current open-world RPG titles.
It has all the game mechanic trappings of a Bethesda title (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, the Fallout series), but without the bugs that Bethesda is known for. There are endless side quests to run; you are not confined to essentially a single path through the game, no matter how many times you play. Yes, the main quest is there, and will be the same for all characters, but doing the main quest is truly an optional experience in the game. You can have hours of fun exploring the countryside and doing favors for the people you meet out there.
E.g. There's a food crafting system in which you use a cookpot or campfire to combine ingredients which have different effects.
E.g. There are different biomes, including a snowy biome which deals you cold damage over time. Changing your clothes or eating foods to cancel the cold debuff are a couple of options for dealing with that.
E.g. There are "magical" powers which Link discovers and uses which allow for the problems presented in the game to be solved in multiple ways.
E.g. The world is vast (it's described as bigger than Skyrim, but how to compare the size of fantasy worlds in different fantasy universes is beyond me). Seeing the distant mountain peeks and knowing they're not just a background, but an obstacle to cross with new vistas and adventures beyond it is perhaps not new to a Zelda title, but they've done it on a grand scale.
There's so much more to this game. These are just a couple of examples of where Nintendo has taken the best mechanics from other RPGs and woven them into a Link tale.
Dude....you missed so muchQuote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
I'm old.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
I was a grumpy teenager full of angst in the SNES and early N64 era and video games were such a "waste of time" and "not productive" in my mind at the time. Then I joined PC master race near the end of the 90's and pretty much haven't touched console gaming since.
I'm sure I've missed a lot of great games.
You can listen direct here: http://rebelfm.libsyn.com/rebel-fm-episode-326-02242017Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
I think the cliff notes are he found many of the zeldas since the N64 one to be very tutorial in nature. That is, learn how to do this move or use this weapon in this temple and then use that in 500 repetitive combos until you beat the temple. Use that move to enter the next temple and then learn the next move/weapon. The claim is this Zelda studied a lot of the successful adventure and open world games over the last 5+ years and really made something wonderful.
I've liked every Zelda I've played but I get his point. This is one game he points out that I've never played that he says is the best one. Wouldn't mind checking it out.
Anyone ever try Darksiders? It was pretty much the exact same game as LoZ. It even 'beeped' when you got down to one unit of health.
More or less the exact gameplay with a darker setting and more violence.
Resident Evil 7 is SO GOOD! I shat my pants playing the first 2 RE games way back when and this game captured everything that made the old games great and brings them into 2017. Everything about this game works for me. The story is not a lazy sequel, prequel or reboot. It's it's own contained story within the RE universe. The characters motivations are all relatable to the point where you feel empathy for the goddamn bosses you fight. It has all the dumb RE puzzles, but the game goes out of its way not to fuck with you when you're trying to solve shit and it will not make you run around trying to solve shit while you're fighting. You will fail just enough to experience many glorious fail states, but mostly it's balanced well enough so that you escape by the skin of your teeth. The PC port is flawless. Only caveat is that the season pass is too good to skip, which bumps this up to an $80 game with about 10h worth of gameplay. I recommend getting it when it goes on sale.
I should also tag on that if you're not nostalgic about the first two games, a lot of the things I like about it will probably just be annoying.
Find an emulator and a Crono Trigger rom.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
Thank me later.
Not a bad game at all, but I really think this one gets too much credit. Mostly, I think, because it was one of the last 'great SNES rpg's'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Around 2000, I was at a grocery store that still rented SNES games. By that time PS2 already had a release date, so it was safe to say that no one was renting SNES cartridges from the Shop n Save anymore. The cartridges were generating $0 revenue for the store, so it was pretty easy to make the manager an offer he couldn't refuse.
I got Chrono Trigger and Super Metroid for $20!!!
Bonus: they had the box with instructions and maps, in mint condition, put away in the back. After I was done playing I flipped that thing on ebay for $200. +EV!
Final note, Jack's advice is a trap. If you go looking for a SNES emulator, you're very likely to fall down a rabbit hole and end up playing TMNT 4: Turtles in Time non-stop for the next three months.
Big fan of the new zelda, played almost all of them can't get enough lol. Anyone who loves classic platformers like Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong should check out Yooka Laylee, it's coming out next month.
chrono trigger is a beautiful game and not overrated at all, imo. it's not exactly challenging, in fact it's quite easy as far as jrpgs go, but the world and characters are captivating and charming in the way zelda games are. also, the music is amazing. yasunori mitsuda with a bit of nobuo uematsu, can't go wrong
The titular character never even talks!Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
Not sure how you can say the world is captivating. To me it feels incredibly confined. YOu're always limited to a few destinations, and navigating across the overworld map is nothing more than moving your guy from one place to another. No incentive to explore. No new creatures to encounter. No new secrets to unlock.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm not saying I hate the game, I'm just saying that it pales in comparison to its peers. I think its 'value' is helped by its rarity. In other words, I think people like it because they're playing something no one else has. Like "here's this hidden gem that only us hard core gamers know about" And that exclusivity adds to its mystique.
You see people rave less about FF3 (or FF6 if you're a dick about it), even though that was a far far richer game.
why i find it captivating is more for ineffable reasons, and entirely subjective, not something i can convince you of if you don't feel the same way. it's everything from the music to the characters to the aesthetic, the enchanting quality produced by the combination of those elements. when i say captivating i'm not implying a degree of intricacy. is it a particularly complex game with the most developed characters? no, definitely not. FF6 is far richer in that regard (i also love that game and would say it's as good, for sure, and in some ways preferable). It's the sum of its parts. I just love it, it works for me. I guess if you have a certain sensibility, like if you're super drawn to certain qualities in JRPG games, you'll love it. And of those things don't make as big of an impact on you, it's fun but not anything special. I get where you're coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
My android phone has two emulators loaded:
Snes emulator with Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Legend of Zelda, Super Mario RPG
GBA emulator with Fire emblem 1 & 2, advance wars 1&2
It works great because none of these games really need precision controls so they work fine on a touchscreen.
Any rocket league fans? The new game mode (drop shot) is surprisingly good
Hahaha I love TMNTQuote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Crono Trigger is not overrated, it's the perfect RPG: a gripping story, good enough mechanics, intriguing weapon/fight system with levelups, and has 10 endings. For the time, and today still, I'd basically rank it top 10.
Remember, back then there were no critics other than maybe EGM (RIP), so basically all opinions formed were by playing the thing in stark contrast with how things are nowadays. If everyone says it was great, it's probably the true belief that it was formed by actual unbiased experiences. IMO, those were the true good old days.
Nowadays people are jaded as fuck when it comes to games.
However, my favorite SNES game is this obscure thing called Uniracers which probably no one has ever heard of. It's made by Rockstar before they were Rockstar.
Yeah, I was reading banana's post and I was about to answer exactly this. CT's soundtrack is indeed amazing, a bonafide classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HllRJW6_R-o
It's the first time I was ever rickrolled as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIoojngT95s
And this one is without a doubt my favorite song, but for the when and where it was played. Great song that perfectly complemented the level it was for. I am always amazed at how much people could do with 8/16 bit music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px_hDnO9tDk
I loved the wings of time, and how what you do now affects what happens later (spoiler free for those who haven't played). I also loved the newGame+ thing. Killing L**** (Edited for spoilers) with two swift triple team techs, makes a kid feel like a boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
I played FF3, but for some reason I can't remember finishing it or anything really. I think I only played it with an EMU, because I can't recall ever doing that on a SNES. I will have to get to that once I have some free time, because I can't remember why I never finished it.
My all-time personal RPG top 5, based on those I played (I played many, but obviously not everything out there), in no particular order:
Crono Trigger
Super Mario RPG
Xenogears
KOTOR (1&2)
Mass Effect (1,2,3)
Are there any iOS emulators? I'd assume not given the strict control Apple has over the marketplace. Just another point in the "why I'm getting an Android next go around."
I want to retract my statement about RE7 being any good. It really shows it's flaws when you're not playing with friends. I still recommend it on a heavy discount.
Yes, I lovelovelove the Zeal music. And Zeal Palace. That area may have been my favorite in the game, probably because I'm innately drawn to all the mystic metaphysical stuff, lol. That's a really nice piano version of the Forest music too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Also badass as fuck was the Tyrano Lair theme (one of Uematsu's, and super similar to Kuja's theme from FF7, one of my fav final boss songs).
I think the hands down CT's most beautiful piece of music is 600 AD. I remember when I first heard it while playing and knowing the game completely had my heart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqZaFDA7PXY
edit: While we're on the topic of VG music, I've been revisiting my deep love for the SNES Donkey Kong soundtracks lately (particularly the second one) and the Silent Hill soundtracks. amazing stuff.
Random Xbox One newbie question... Is an Xbox One S controller compatible on a regular Xbox One System?
Great Song... I also love the Super Castlevania IV soundtrack.Quote:
Originally Posted by aubreymcfate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dauRYb9il8
Personal favorite
So now that the price has dropped I went and picked up a copy of horizon: zero dawn
It's a very good looking game, and also pretty badass
http://i.imgur.com/XtU4LlL.gif
Horizon: Zero Dawn would be right up my alley if it wasn't a Playstation exclusive. I'm hopeful for Hellblade: Sanua's Sacrifice. Not much information out yet. Release date is august 8th. That's the only game I'm looking forward to atm.
This is a sad Steam summer sale for me. I'm not really excited for anything atm. I'll probably grab The Sexy Brutale, Duck Game and some even smaller indie games.
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/06/...ition-now.html
Not sure this is news really. I think everyone knew this was coming.
What I found surprising, and hilarious, was that a guy named "Bowser" became a Senior VP at Nintendo.
Quote:
“While many people from around the world consider the Super NES to be one of the greatest video game systems ever made, many of our younger fans never had a chance to play it,” said Doug Bowser, Nintendo of America’s senior vice president of sales and marketing.
I still haven't played the Super NES Zelda although I've seen gameplay for it. I know that was a classic and would love to play it.
That actually makes me a little sadQuote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Don't buy a NES or SNES classic. Buy a raspberry pi for 1/3 of the price and load it with as many nes, snes, master system, mega drive (genesis) games as you like.
Also I'd been putting it off for 8 months, but finally I bit the bullet and picked up a switch with Zelda, yay
Tell me more about this raspberry pi
A Raspberry Pi is a computer about the size of a deck of cards that costs ~$40.
It's tiny, but it has decent specs.
1.2GHz 64-bit quad-core ARMv8 CPU, 1 GB RAM
All you need is a base OS installed, and then the emulators for whatever gaming console you want, and finally you need to save the game roms onto either the Pi or onto a flash drive that it reads.
So I already have emulators, and roms, and a controller I like. My usual play is to just HDMI my laptop into the TV and play.
So this raspberry would allow someone else to use the laptop while I'm playing video games. Would it really have much utility to me beyond that?
How easy is it to set up and use?
Are there certain emulators that they recommend?
What other emulator systems would work on it? When I "got out" of emu-gaming, there were some buggy, but sorta-functional N64 and PS1 emulators out there. Whats the landscape like today?
I can't answer those questions, but Raspberry Pi has a dedicated following of DIY computer types who are more excited about their community than most Apple users. There must be a wealth of online resources to walk you through the process.
Are you just bored today? Why respond to a question without giving a answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
Anyway, I'm not really looking to get waist-deep in a swamp of DIY computer nerds. I'm just looking for simple answers to simple questions.
Most importantly, does this Pi machine provide any significant utility that I wouldn't have if just plugged my laptop into my TV.
Do any emu's work with chromecast nowadays? That seems like the ultimate solution.
Well, you asked a "google this for me" question.
My answer is, "You can google that."
Short answer is no, you don't gain any additional utility moving your emulation station from a laptop to a pi, as a laptop will do everything the pi does and then some.
but as a direct competitor to the nes & snes classic the pi is perfectly positioned
A whole playlist on what has been happening lately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qfo...-Y-e8j-ebiJB6P
Pay to win is a thing nowadays. Oh the good old days
Only really affects shit games tho... I zapped through the video. I have to disagree on Overwatch. He probably has similar opinions on CS and Dota. They are a bit dodgy in their attempt to mimic all the little things that make slot machines work psychologically, but it's all purely about cosmetics. As long as it doesn't affect gameplay, I don't care. For the people who are really into skins, they are into skins because of their perceived value. If you took away the gambling aspect these people wouldn't find as much enjoyment int them either. What EA is doing is straight up "well, I won't buy that then" territory.
In other news: Hellblade is fantastic. Drags on a bit occasionally, but the last hour of the game is perfection. Well worth the asking price if you're remotely into that kind of thing - Dark Souls atmosphere with Arkham Knight style combat. One of the most immersive games I've ever played.
Couldn't get into The Sexy Brutale at all for some reason.
Duck game is a fantastic couch game.
Starcraft II goes F2P tomorrow!
Wings of Liberty campaign will be free, as well as all multi-player and custom-game content.
Yeah, fuck EA. And it continues.
Yesterday, they broke the record of most downvoted reddit comment ever, 20x worse than the previous offender.
They had, at the time of this post, -440K on the post. That made them backtrack swiftly on the game.
More info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F1D4pPt-YU
This vid explains it better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeZrwq3KhRA
Ok, I'll quit hijacking now
It won't matter. This will still be one of the most profitable game of the year, and they'll continue the same circle next year. Like Hitler said: there's no such thing as bad press.
It sucks that kids get sucked into shit games and kept there because they feel invested by the loot they unlocked. I guess on the positive side, it acts as a retard magnet that keeps the completely braindead out of my games. I feel bad for the kids that play this as their first multi-player experience, fall for the warm and motherly feeling that artificial progression systems give you and get frustrated when they walk into a properly balanced game later in life.
Well at least someone is having fun with this:
https://twitter.com/StarCraft/status/930535216925491200
Did I mention Starcraft? Anyone playing Starcraft yet? Everyone go play Starcraft!
I played Starcraft once, then I took an arrow to the knee.
:p
I'm playing Skyrim again. It's been long enough since I last played that it's fresh again.
I don't even remember what is modded or not about the game. I just fired it up and played.
The scenery is still beautiful.
so... I rabbit-holed on Skyrim mods last night after I made that post.
Wow. They've come a long way in the years since I last played the game.
One of them really stood out to me. I think it's called Ordinator Perk Overhaul.
It basically makes every perk tree now a viable class unto itself, with drastically different play styles involved in just working through any single tree, let alone mixing and matching skills from across the trees.
Anyone played Skyrim in the past couple of years? Any mod suggestions?
Yeah me. I just got it last winter sale. Did not have the greatest experience with it. I slayed a dragon, then I stole a horse. Got off the horse somewhere in the woods. Horse ran away. Then some guys came to kill me because I stole an unfaithful horse - I slayed a dragon for you ungreatful fucks! I fled up a mountain, fell off the mountain and died.
Don't steal that horse. That's my suggestion.
So,
Apparently Belgium stepped in.
https://kotaku.com/battlefront-overw...ion-1820486239
My computer at work doesn't have speakers so I haven't watched the videos nor have I been really keeping up with this whole story. From what I understand though, I'm not too concerned.
They had something similar when I was a kid. They were called baseball cards. You bought a pack, and you hoped it had a Jose Conseco card in it, but mostly you just got a lot of Wally Joyner, Greg Jeffries, and Frank Viola cards.
Except that if you had that Jose Conseco card today, still in mint condition, it'd be worth something.
Not really. I'm using 1989 Topps cards as my basis of comparison, because that's what I had the most of as a kid. Jose Conseco is worth about 3 bucks. Frank Viola is only about 90 cents less.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
Also "worth" is a very subjective term.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey
In 1989, my Jose Conseco card was pretty much worthless in terms of utility. I couldn't play with it. It didn't DO anything. It's value only came from collect-ability and it's rarity compared to similar items.
With these loot-boxes, obviously rarity and collect-ability are less important factors determining value. But there is significantly more utility than a baseball card. You actually *get* something that *does* something and provides value in the form of enhanced gameplay and a more entertaining experience.
It doesn't seem relevant to cite whether or not the item purchased will hold it's value over time.
Fake fruit can be displayed on a table centerpiece and enhance the atmosphere of a room. Real fruit can be eaten for sustenance and nutrition. The fake fruit will still be there, doing it's thing tomorrow. The real fruit will have been digested and flushed down a toilet by that time. Does that mean that the real fruit is "worthless"??? What if you're REALLY hungry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
The cards were not actively being put in front of you and changing it contents algorithmically (read: by a machine) to keep you buying them. You didn't have to pull a slot, pull any lever, watch other people opening them forcedly etc. If you wanted to buy a card, you would just go and buy a card, provided you had the money.
This is also exactly the kind of thinking these companies want the people to have nowadays. If you read up on stuff, you'd realize that there are manifestations of Skinner's Boxes. This shit is evil, and it's only going to get worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Still, they woudl be worth something. It's an asset, and you can trade it with your friends. There is some, even however miniscule, intrinsic value in these.
A digital lootbox has no value other to than your account by design. Only CS:GO has loot boxes which actually have value in the real world, and you can find the ironically non-gambling site CS:GO Lotto for instance where you can, well, gamble for them and sell them with other collectors. Literally only CS:GO.
For all other lootbox shenanigans you would have to go through a lot of hoops, such as selling your account (which all sorts of other stuff are tied to, your other game purchases etc) in order to actually give them real world value. So, it is literally a money pit. By design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Again, you fall into the common trap. These things have no value outside of the game BY DESIGN. The only ones that do are specifically CS:GO's, as mentioned above. It is literally worhtless to anyone but you, or other gamers in the game which will by design never have owner access to your shit.
Lootboxes have been implemented in modern games with the sole purpose of replicating Skinner's Box environments in order to maximize the cash they can grab in games from everybody. The thing is, most of these games are marketed towards underaged persons, up to the 17 year old demographic (Most games are rated E or PG13. Rarely do you get a. Mature rated game). So you can't really tolerate the gambling elements in them. Particularly if these are not advertised as such up front.
Edit: I found a link specifically explaining the Skinner's Box concept and how it applies to loot-boxes
It's not your fault that you do not understand the issue Banana. Obviously you always take the "Corporations should be allowed to fleece you any way they see fit" approach whenever we have had any discussions on here because Capitalism and bootstraps or whatever, and that's ok, but do a little bit of research on this one and you will see how bad this shit is. These AAA-game corporations, particularly EA, Ubisoft, Activion and Blizzard bank on casual gamers, like apparently you, to keep the practice going. They bank on the ignorance of the masses to normalize it. They bank, literally, on you not understanding this and therefore not giving two shits about it.
The vast majority of people don't follow the industry; you want to play soccer you just buy the latest FIFA. They do not know beforehand about all the microtransactions (actually getting closer to being just transactions nowadays, these are definitely not micro anymore), consumables, lootboxes and the fucking bottomless pit slots that they will be faced with in the game which is designed to deceive and exploit you into paying more and more into the game. And of course, this is mostly/all geared towards children.
OK... this is not really my kind of thing, but I have to admit that I clicked on it, and lolled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoB0HfGXNf0
Stupid video embed not working.
:(
Were you even alive in 1989? We didn't have the internet, or smartphones. My house had 12 channels. People got out more back then. And virtually every point-of-sale in America had a rack of baseball cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Dude, I know 1989 feels like forever ago, but math had been invented by then. Are you claiming that trading card companies had no idea which cards would be most coveted? Are you saying that they did nothing to drive the scarcity or distribution of the most coveted cards? C'mon.Quote:
and changing it contents algorithmically (read: by a machine) to keep you buying them.
No it isn't.Quote:
This shit is evil
Again, why is permanent liquidity suddenly the only measure of "worth"? Sometimes an item's worth is consumed.Quote:
Still, they woudl be worth something. It's an asset, and you can trade it with your friends. There is some, even however miniscule, intrinsic value in these.
So? There is a sandwich in my stomach right now that has no value to anyone other than me. It's useless to you, but it's giving me nutrition and the energy to write this post.Quote:
A digital lootbox has no value other to than your account by design
So?Quote:
So, it is literally a money pit. By design.
So?Quote:
Again, you fall into the common trap. These things have no value outside of the game BY DESIGN
So?Quote:
It is literally worhtless to anyone but you, or other gamers in the game which will by design never have owner access to your shit.
ZOMG!!! You mean corporations will leverage the popularity of their licensed content in order to increase profits among their target audience??? What foul treachery!!!Quote:
Lootboxes have been implemented in modern games with the sole purpose of replicating Skinner's Box environments in order to maximize the cash they can grab in games from everybody.
^This is complete and utter bullshit that I will address at the endQuote:
The thing is, most of these games are marketed towards underaged persons, up to the 17 year old demographic (Most games are rated E or PG13. Rarely do you get a. Mature rated game). So you can't really tolerate the gambling elements in them. Particularly if these are not advertised as such up front.
Read about half of it. Basically the author is a whiny bitch who got 'hooked' on an indulgence and doesn't accept responsibility for his own weakness. He blames it all on the evil corporations.Quote:
Edit: I found a link specifically explaining the Skinner's Box concept and how it applies to loot-boxes
Who is getting "fleeced"? You can spend $0 (other than the cost of the disc) and still play the game right?Quote:
It's not your fault that you do not understand the issue Banana. Obviously you always take the "Corporations should be allowed to fleece you any way they see fit" approach whenever we have had any discussions on here because Capitalism and bootstraps or whatever, and that's ok,
Honestly, it doesn't seem that bad. It seems pretty similar to tons of other business models that have already existed for a long long long time. It seems to me that the most butt-hurt people here are the ones who are just a little irked that video games got more expensive.Quote:
but do a little bit of research on this one and you will see how bad this shit is.
No, I think they are banking on people like you eventually shutting up and realizing that your precious little past-time is provided for profit. No one owes you free extras.Quote:
These AAA-game corporations, particularly EA, Ubisoft, Activion and Blizzard bank on casual gamers, like apparently you, to keep the practice going. They bank on the ignorance of the masses to normalize it. They bank, literally, on you not understanding this and therefore not giving two shits about it.
So what you're saying is that they have found a way to make video games a deeper and more immersive experience, but in order to do that, it costs more. Rather than raise the price of games, (they've been $60 each for like 30 years now!), they implemented a system where the extras are optional and the user can make a conscious decision about whether or not to purchase them. How's that a bad thing?Quote:
The vast majority of people don't follow the industry; you want to play soccer you just buy the latest FIFA. They do not know beforehand about all the microtransactions (actually getting closer to being just transactions nowadays, these are definitely not micro anymore), consumables, lootboxes and the fucking bottomless pit slots that they will be faced with in the game which is designed to deceive and exploit you into paying more and more into the game.
This is the saddest and most pathetic of all of your arguments dude. I don't believe for a fucking second that you're really moved at all by any concern regarding children. I think it's just a convenient argument that you're co-opting to help keep your games cheap.Quote:
And of course, this is mostly/all geared towards children.
You obviously don't have children, because if you did, you would know that EVERYTHING THEY DO COSTS FUCKING MONEY!
Kids are bombarded with thousands of marketing attempts a day. Virtually every minute of their lives they are fed hype for every type of toy, game, show, movie, song, and electronic device you can name. It's all designed to get money. You never cared until it touched your precious little star wars game.
And finally your "but think of the children" argument fails hard when you realize that this is all pretty much driven on card-based transactions, am I right? Kids 17 and under, shouldn't have credit cards. Period. It's up to mom and dad to secure their cards and make sound decisions on how, when, or even if they allow their kid to spend money on a loot box.
Or...if the kid is buying gift cards with cash and then using them online.....so what? Kids blow their allowance on all kinds of shit. If a 15 year old works a paper route and blows the money on new elbow pads for C3PO, why do you even care? He doesn't have a credit card, so he can't go into debt. He can't spend more than he earns, so the worst case scenario is that we have a kid who learns that he can have more of what he wants if he works more. You know...... 'bootstraps and whatever'.
If parents aren't securing their credit cards, or if they aren't informed of their 13 year-old's finances, then bad things are going to happen. Period. It could be video games, it could be phone sex. Are you just gonna outlaw everything because some parents are shitty enough to let their kids do bad things?
I realize you're pissed about having to shell out a few extra bucks to feel "cool" among your digital trekkie pals, but a nanny-government solution is not the answer.
PS - if you REALLY REALLY REALLY gave a shit about deterring kids from gambling...you'd be ranting long and hard about fantasy football
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbqCk95Pf6kQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Tbf I tried to game again a bit a couple of years ago & the complete bullshit of microtransactions & season passes put me right off. I just sold my console and don't buy any games as a result.
There is nothing wrong with in game transactions.
LOL Bananastand, how many strawmen can you put in a single post? I gave up halfway
And all I saw were strawmen and the classic arguments, like games are too expensive etc, you can spend $0 and play game (LOL, this post and this response)
Here, have an 8 year old quote
https://www.gamespot.com/forums/offt...-80s-26803548/
Cartridges were actually fucking expensive to make ergo expensive games. Pressing discs? Not so much. All of a sudden though, pressing disks became fucking expensive as well. I bet you also knew that digital distributed games cost more nowadays than their pressed equivalents, despite costing less to produce a copy right?Quote:
Second,NES games cost on average between 45-60 dollars. The SNES games went as high as 70-80 dollars depending on the title. Even the N64 games were really expensive at first. The reason the PS2 era games lowered a bit was that PS1 standardized the disc,which is cheaper to manufacture than cartridge. But now disc type has changed,and everything else costs so much so prices are rising. But since you might pay 70 dollars for a ffVI for SNES,and 60 is standard,add in inflation,and games are actually cheaper now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Trekkies =/= Star Wars btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You definitely do not understand the situation. That's ok though.
Here, a video on what's currently going on. Might give you some perspective. Or not
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdL9gqdeqBA
I kinda think I do. I think you're just in denialQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Free markets and competition and capitalism are all great until it affects the price of something you like and then its "WTF!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN"
Life is gambling, just because you can say the word gambling and bring up negative connotations involved with that word doesn't mean it wouldn't be stupid to classify something like loot boxes as gambling because the legislation for those things was created without these things in mind.
If you don't like it don't buy the game & don't use microtransactions. Go even further & support developers who aren't using them.
DLCs used to be accepted. Then they started to cut out content to offer it as DLC. Started shipping games out incomplete, full price, and then offer the rest as DLC.
Microtransactions were accepted, then they started hampering progression in full priced games down to a crawl unless you pay up to progress faster. NBA 2K franchise is notorious for this. The game would cost $60, and yet you could buyt $100 in virtual currency to buy shit like green shoes and bandannas.
Then came the now ubiquitous lootboxes. In which now you have to spend real money for a chance in getting what you really want. This, of course, accompanied by all sorts of psychological manipulation and slot machine tactics and creations of Skinner's environments. You spend the money, but you don't actually get what you want right away; you have to keep spending money for more tries at getting what you want. In the meantime, what other players have keeps getting shoved in your face more and more prominently. All the while making it more difficult to earn said credits to being able to afford the lootboxes, which if you don't have you will keep having your ass handed to you over and over again, forcing you to pay up to compete. All of this happening in a full price game THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT (LOL at playing for $0).
The rhetoric ithat these AAA publishers will offer you is that it isn't gambling. My stance is that it fucking IS gambling. And if it IS gambling, then how the fuck can it be allowed to be advertised to children? To be in the hands of and marketed to fucking kids?
facepalm.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Time to update the legislation. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably not a giraffe; it's a fucking duck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savy
I do, and also at least 680,000 people agree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savy
https://www.reddit.com/r/ListOfComments/wiki/downvoted
Where is all this outrage when they do the same thing with...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
...baseball cards
...happy meal toys
...carnival games
...gumball machines
...cereal box prizes
...skee ball
...anything collectible
...virtually every iphone and android video game ever created
This reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg line that kinda goes like this...."I saw an ad for a casino and they showed a guy winning money. That's false advertising cause that's what happens the least! It's like if I advertised a hamburger by showing a guy choking!"Quote:
In the meantime, what other players have keeps getting shoved in your face more and more prominently
It's a funny gripe but if you're truly miffed because a business uses a positive spin to advertise its products....then I might recommend some anger management.
Furthermore, if you're just jealous of what other people have, then again...therapy might be the answer.
People are invested in their franchise, if it's Football Manager, Battlefield, CS or whatever. It's easy to say "don't buy it then" from an outsider perspective, but if you really like a franchise, you'll probably still buy the next iteration.
Here's why the BF outrage is justified: They sell you a full priced game with a mobile game F2P scheme. In addition to locking away half the content behind a season pass AND being a yearly franchise.
Actual day-1 game mechanics and characters are locked behind a painfully slow grind and you have the option to buy faster progress with real money. This is something I can begrudgingly accept with F2P games because they somehow have to make money, but a full priced release with a full priced season pass in a yearly frenchise? This is truly unprecedented. In Rainbow Six Siege they did a similar thing, but the way they did is was to release a $15 version of the game that had painfully slow unlock progress and you could buy progress accelerators or individual characters once you realized your mistake, or you could just buy the full priced game and unlock pretty much everything within a month. It's very personal how much of this BS you are willing to take, but Battlefront2 got all of it and to no surprise to anyone, people are not happy.
On the downside: They will backtrack and after a huge amount of negative press there will be a truckload of "oh well, ok then" press and I can't imagine this game doing poorly. No Man's Sky made millions and that game is universally hated. Marketing is everything.
That is essentially wimpy losers having a whinge about a game they will pretty much all buy & then spend loads of money on in game purchases. So not what I said at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
You also didn't get my point about changes in legislation, it would be weakening it to include stuff like this because it isn't gambling in the traditional degen image ruining families, lives etc that it was formed from.
If people don't do that then it's their fault, not anyone elses. If a company takes the piss they lose customer loyalty & it's a bad long term decision, this probably won't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
If making a decision makes you more money as a business why should you not be allowed to do that? F2P is still in very early stages so if developers are making poor decisions to exploit this then they will be damaged as a result.
I don't care about any of the games this is currently happening with, but I'm trying to imagine what I'd do if this was in my thing. If they released WC4 or SC3 and it had the same BS... I'd still probably buy the game. I'd have a really high tolerance for BS because I'm invested in those franchises.
I'll argue this like a dirty socialist: I don't think this is right even if it's making them more money than just releasing a complete game. A Battlefront game is money in the bank. It's impossible not to be profitable on the IP alone. Be a bit less of a greedy pig and just make a decent game! Other people can do it! Bethesda is doing it. Ninja Theory is doing it. Valve and Blizzard can occasionally do it. Why can't Gearbox and Activision do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Quote:
On top of this, loot systems are designed to maximise use through carefully crafted audio and visual design. In interviews with my colleague Cecilia D'Anastasio earlier this year, the designers from games like Overwatch and Duelyst explain how their crates are designed to be a pleasurable experience.
"When you start opening a loot box, we want to build anticipation," an Overwatch developer said. "We do this in a lot of ways -- animations, camera work, spinning plates, and sounds. We even build a little anticipation with the glow that emits from a loot box's cracks before you open it."
Moment for moment, loot boxes are engineered to capture attention with a mixture of spectacle and psychological trickery not unlike what you might find at a slot machine.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/10/lo...to-exploit-us/
Explain to me how this resembles opening a happy meal, a baseball card or a cracker jack. Also, please do tell me if they kempt chargning you every time you openend the same happy meal, baseball card pack or cracker jack box. Because that's what they do nowadays. Play NBA Live 2018 and you will know what I'm talking about.
If you can't understand or don't want to understand that THESE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS, I can only tell you to enjoy your pure bliss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
DO you recall PAYING MONEY UPFRONT for any of these? Did you pay to download Pokemon Go?
Now, AAA publishers want to charge you upfront AND charge you the micro's AND charge you for lootboxes AND hamper your progression as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
LOL, you are truly fucking trollin' or you are really the densest human being in the world
Hahahahahaha
Dude, Activision patented this. A fucking patent. On exactly this that you are calling me "jealous" and "needing therapy" for being "truly miffed because a business uses a positive spin to advertise its products". They went to the USPTO with their "positive spin".
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/...h-matchmaking/
Now, when you die in EA's Battlefront 2, you get shown exactly which cards were used to kill you with.
It would be the LOL if Activision sued EA for the right to be the scumbaggiest company
Now that's a positive spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savy
You can make all the money in the world you want without having to be a scumbag. If you have to be a scumbag to make money then you can go rightly fuck yourself.
These companies prey on the fact that most people still have no idea that this shit is going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskar
This. And ninja theory proves why the "OMG GAMES ARE SO EXPENSIVE TO MAKE NOWADAYS" rhetoric is bullshit
The really sad part about this is that we're talking about Battlefront when this is pretty much the best time for games in the history of games. This year we've had Hellblade, Wolfenstein: New Order, Resident Evil 7, Cuphead, Owlboy, Prey, Vanquish and Bayonetta got a remastered PC release... Fortnite, Battlegrounds, Starcraft2 is F2P have I mentioned this yet? XCom War of the Chosen, Darkest Dungeon, Duck Game.
There's no way I could possibly play even a quarter of the games that came out this year that I want to play.
The Belgians started to investigate after public outcry. The Dutch started to investigate. EA's response? Disable all in-game purchases. They got scared. But do not fall for this; it's not over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPhRDN8T9_M
Indeed man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskar
Regarding Battlefront:
I don't care that new players don't have the same loadouts & options as more seasoned players. If a game is enjoyable you will play it and unlock things and you will eventually level the playing field. This is fine and it works as long as the starter weapons are 'good enough', the disadvantage relatively small, and the progression not too onerous.
I also don't mind loot boxes, as long as the items contained within them are purely cosmetic. Overwatch and Rocket League have this system - you can make your character / weapon / car look super cool, but no amount of money spent will give you any competitive advantage.
With Overwatch, items purchased through loot boxes cannot be traded. Yes, it's a money pit. But you don't have to spend anything if you don't want to and most players don't buy any, as you get regular loot box unlocks simply by playing the game. In this regard, they're completely harmless and an example of microtransactions done right.
With Rocket League, items can be traded. This introduces the concept of 'profit trading' and just like CSGO a large trading community has evolved from this. But in both cases, the base game is very cheap (under $20) and all items are purely cosmetic. Interestingly it also means that if you don't want to gamble you don't have to - you can simply buy what you want from a market seller. Personally I have opened loot boxes and I have bought specific items through the trading community, depending on whether I fancied a gamble or not. It helps a bunch that Psyonix are a great developer who listen to their fans and are constantly adding new content to Rocket League, so I'm happy to support them.
The only thing I wish was regulated is I would love to see the loot box odds disclosed, very clearly, at the purchase point.
I think where EA really dropped the ball was in making it exceptionally difficult to level the playing field through progression. Paying $80 for a star wars game and then having to play 80-100 hours to unlock Luke & vader is ridiculous in itself, then another 200 hours or more to get all the stat boosting options on top is too much. But then giving people the option to bypass all that grind for an additional fee? It's easy to see why people are outraged, it's basically pay to win in an $80, AAA game.
This year we've also had Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda breath of the wild, Super Mario oddysey, Destiny 2, South Park The Fractured Butthole...Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Truly an epic year for gaming
No...you're not 'invested'. Just because you think Captain Picard is cool, doesn't mean you have to buy every Star Trek thingy that ever comes out. If it's something you will enjoy and it's affordable for you, then buy it and have a blast. If you're going to be miserable and frustrated over the number of transactions, or if you simply can't afford to have an enjoyable experience, then....DON'T BUY THE FUCKING GAME.Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
I was once the biggest fan of Final Fantasy that ever walked the earth. I friggen loved console RPG's in the 90's and early 00's. But online games were not my taste. And I wasn't high on the idea of paying for a monthly subscription. So Final Fantasy 11 didn't make my library.
I don't feel like a forfeited any "investment"
.Quote:
Here's why the BF outrage is justified: They sell you a full priced game with a mobile game F2P scheme. In addition to locking away half the content behind a season pass AND being a yearly franchise
So I was playing poker at a large casino on a busy saturday night. Some degenerate was at the table complaining that he really wanted to play blackjack, but every table in the house had a $25 minimum bet. "They really ought to have $15 tables so more people can play" he said. Every table in the house was packed. The house was doing fine. Why should they have to surrender at least $10/bet just so this ass-hole can join in? What do they owe him?
Same thing applies here. If BF is too expensive for you...DON'T PLAY IT. If it's not too expensive for you, and you're willing to pay, then you have just *justified* the price!!! So you forfeit any right to complain!
If people are unhappy with the game, then the game won't sell very well. And maybe the game-makers will learn their lesson. But if the game does sell well, then obviously people weren't unhappy enough to complain with their pocketbooks.Quote:
It's very personal how much of this BS you are willing to take, but Battlefront2 got all of it and to no surprise to anyone, people are not happy.
All EA games are going this route. Even NFS is now a lootbox infested grindfest. As long as no one complains, why should they change? Mobile pay structures in full price AAA games is where the AAA publishers want things to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by banana
Strawmanning once again Banana.Quote:
Originally Posted by banana
It will always sell well Banana. It's star wars, for crying out loud. This is exactly what EA is banking on, which is why they loaded this game up with every despicable tactic they could think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by banana
If you would have actually read this post rather than strawmanning yourself ad nauseam you'd get a semblance of some sense as to what the actual problem is
https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...53#post2280853
This is the modus operandi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Sterling
You're presenting this as if it's outrageous. It's not. Attractive product placement has been a thing for a LOOOOOOONG time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Remember the ninja turtles movie, when they had pizza delivered to their sewer lair? The delivery guy had on a ridiculous red and blue uniform plastered with Domino's pizza logos. When the turtles opened the pizza box, the lid moved right into the camera with the "Domino's" logo filling up 3/4 of the frame.
All of that imagery and camera work was done on purpose, paid for by Domino's, with the intent of making you want to buy their pizza.
Advertising is not a crime. Just because your video games now have commercials in them is not a good enough reason to demand oppressive nanny-government intervention.
ummm, explain to me how it doesn't? Explain to me how it's different than a kid walking through the grocery store, seeing a cereal box that says "one of four badass fuckin ninja figures inside!", and then saying "mom...buy me that box!" And if the mom buys the box, it's possible that they will be in the store the following week and the kid will say "Buy me that box...I wanna get a red badass fuckin ninja this time". And if the kid is disappointed when he gets another blue ninja....guess what happens the next trip to the grocery store?Quote:
Explain to me how this resembles opening a happy meal, a baseball card or a cracker jack.
It was my understanding that the loot-box problem is different. You buy the box, hope you get what you want, but if you don't, you buy another box. Do you remember when happy meals had beanie babies in them for a while? People would go, buy a happy meal, look inside, and if they didn't get the beanie baby they wanted, the got back in line and bought another happy meal.Quote:
Also, please do tell me if they kempt chargning you every time you openend the same happy meal, baseball card pack or cracker jack box. Because that's what they do nowadays. Play NBA Live 2018 and you will know what I'm talking about.
.Quote:
If you can't understand or don't want to understand that THESE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS, I can only tell you to enjoy your pure bliss
They aren't really that different. Furthermore you should know that this has been happening in the video game industry for-fucking-ever. There was a time when people played video games, but didn't have the internet. So how the hell did people learn that Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, B, A, start would result in beginning the game with 30 lives instead of 3? If you wanted that enhanced experience, you needed to subscribe to Nintendo Fun Club News (which later became Nintendo Power Magazine).
Stuck at a difficult part in a game? You can call our Game-Master help line for some insane per-minute charge. No credit card needed, we'll bill your phone line. But you're on the honor system kids when it comes to getting mom and dad's permission [lol]
And it just kept going from there. Want a blue controller instead of the standard gray? Pay us another 29.99. Then they stopped including second controllers with consoles. Want to play with a friend....another $29.99. Before HDMI cables there were those Red/Blue/Green HD inputs. No console ever shipped with the correct wires for that though. You got standard A/V cables. Want HD gaming?....another $29.99!! Or even if you didn't, alot of TV's back then only had the simple RF input, which required a different adapter.....for $29.99.
Online subscription based games have been around since the 90's. Wanna play everquest...ok the game is $70 and it doesn't do shit...AT ALL...unless you sign up to pay another $13 bucks a month. Don't like that...well then you just pissed away seventy bucks for a plastic disc ass hole. Enjoy your coaster.
The point is regarding in-game purchases. The upfront money is kind of irrelevant. And some games do cost money upfront.Quote:
DO you recall PAYING MONEY UPFRONT for any of these? Did you pay to download Pokemon Go?
Dude...it's THEIR product. They can structure and sell it however they want. The only exception is if their practices were really predatory and deceptive. And they aren't, at least not compared to anything else marketed to kids these days. So if you find that the game isn't worth the frustration....then don't fucking play it!!Quote:
Now, AAA publishers want to charge you upfront AND charge you the micro's AND charge you for lootboxes AND hamper your progression as well.
You know google does the exact same thing when it shows you ads based on your browsing history. Advertising to a target market is not a crime.Quote:
Dude, Activision patented this. A fucking patent. On exactly this that you are calling me "jealous" and "needing therapy" for being "truly miffed because a business uses a positive spin to advertise its products". They went to the USPTO with their "positive spin".
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/...h-matchmaking/
Great, if you like that feature, then voice your opinion with your wallet. Buy games with that feature, and don't buy games without it.Quote:
Now, when you die in EA's Battlefront 2, you get shown exactly which cards were used to kill you with.
Final Fantasy X - 14 Million copies soldQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Final Fantasy XI - 2 Million copies sold
Final Fantasy XII - 12 Million copies sold
One of those games charges a subscription fee. Can you guess which one?
You guys are probably all young enough that most of your saved game files are on hard-drives now. You probably don't remember memory cards. But if you do, you probably don't remember a time BEFORE memory cards.
Yeah, once upon a time, you could just save your game. That's it.
Then in the late 90's they changed things. Now you had a choice. If you bought a game you could choose to A) Play the beginning of it over and over and over and over and over again. or B) Spend another $15 on a memory card so you can save your progress.
Extra hardware, HD wires, magazine subscriptions, 900-numbers, memory cards......these were all revenue streams that gaming companies used to have, but don't anymore.
How do you propose they make up the difference?
Should games just cost $150/each now and everything in them be totally free? Is that really what you want?
What exactly would you like to have happen here anyway? Are you really calling for government intervention over what can and can't be in a video game? Cause that is a real slippery fucking slope dude. Eventually there could come a time when games aren't allowed to have guns, show violence, or contain realistic blood, cuz it's all being regulated by your parent-gov't for the 'public good'.
Actually my first console was an atari 2600 and saving your game was unheard of. Your game ended when you turned it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
I don't think you know what "strawman" means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
But anyway, the "actual problem" is your own internal struggle about market forces dictating changes in how your pet-product is delivered.
People said this same shit when the "greedy" record companies shut down Napster.
You basically want your investment in these games to be capped at whatever the off-the-shelf MSRP is. You like that, cause its been that way for a long time, and change intimidates you. You are clutching to this white-knight sense of fairness that no one cares about except you. Like...you feel that a persons ability to compete in these games should be driven by their time invested and gaming talent. Now someone with more money than you can buy a winning character and do everything you can do, in a tenth of the time.
I get why that might upset you, but suck it up cupcake.
Sometimes businesses make accommodations for higher-profile, higher-frequency, or higher-paying customers. Just because you have a reservation doesn't mean that some high-roller can't drop the Maitre D a c-note and steal your table.
That's life
LOL, in 2017 if you paid $60 for a game that you could beat in under 90 minutes, there would be an uproar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luco
Maybe the government should pass laws mandating the number of quality gameplay hours per dollar a game publisher has to provide.
Ok now I'm confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Bananastand: You kids don't remember older consoles
Me: actually yes I do
Bananastand: Lol the government should regulate video game quality
Me: Ok now I'm confused.
Maybe I should have used hashtag-sarcasm on that last line. I definitely don't see any reason the gov't should be meddling in video games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luco
My only point was that the industry has been bilking gamers for a long time. It only seems to be a problem now because the whiners have a youtube channel they can use to promote their bitching and complaining.
My comment was somewhat hyperbolic, sorry for the confusion. My point is that once upon a time there was a lot of frustrating shit about video games that cost money. Alot of that went away as the market evolved. Sometimes it took a while for that stuff to go away. Sometimes it came back in various incarnations. And what's going on today seems absolutely no different.
We didn't need the government meddling then, so why the hell do we need it now?
"Attractive product placement"? Did you read anything in the link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Nah, you explain. You came up with the comparision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Did the kid need that "badass fuckin ninja figure inside!" in order to get something accomplished? Was the kids progress hampered by lacking that specific item? Was the kid manipulated psychologically in order to get that particular item?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
This fact is quite apparent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Yes, the psychological manilation needed to get you to spend more. The unboxing experience of these lootboxes is also quite pico bello.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
No, and I assume no one needed those beanie babies in order to accomplish something else much easier than if they didn't have that specific beanie baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
A friend told me that cheat code. Different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
In my experience, this never happened to me. Different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You can sell that controller to someone else. Or chew on it. Different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You could buy these in any store at varying prices. Different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Again, you could buy these in any store at varying prices. You could even borrow one if you were a broke ass. Different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Sure, as long as you advertise being an online subscription service in advance no one has a problem with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You missed the point completely but I'm not surprised. You were to busy arguing against your own strawmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
I wonder what you call really predatory and deceptive. I assume it would have to involve this dude:Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
https://i.imgur.com/Jn3z3pw.jpg
I was unaware that you paid google $60 to make use of its search featuresQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
The thing is they never advertise these features. I mean, it's kind of obvious why, but I assume I have to mention this anyway. You only get to know this, particularly if you are the casual gamer they prey on, AFTER you already bought the game "because I like Star Wars". Oh, and let's not go into preorders, that one is for a different day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
I have no idea. You tell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Did it advertise itself as being a SAAS (Subscription Service) upfront or did the players know this AFTER PREORDERING/BUYING THE FUCKING GAME?
LOL, comparing buying tangible things to microtransactions. The only way this would compare was if buying the memory card implied you paying for a black box, which could contain the memory card, but also some broccolli and cheese, a few tic tacs and a literall polished stone. And then out of every 1000 black boxes, only 50 would contain a memory card. Also, of different sizes because why the hell not. The other 950, 600 would contain raw broccoli and cheese, 250 would contain tic tacs, and 100 would contain polished stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Oh, and BTW, River City ransom saves were codes. You had to input a code to get your character back.
LOL, those that made the games really did benefit from selling those magazines back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You are making less and less sense, but let's continue.
Cuphead recently launched at $30. No microtransactions, no PVP, no lootboxes, no DLC yet, it's not even a known IP of, shall we say, Star Wars calibre? It's just a solid good game. It sold 1 million copies at full price in 2 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
https://www.pcgamesn.com/cuphead/cuphead-sales-numbers
No, you misrepresent the position/change the argument and then argue against it. Classic strawmanningQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
I don't want slot machines in games aimed at 13 year olds. I also do not want PAY TO WIN mechanics in full priced supposedly AAA titles. I think I mentioned these quite a few times in this thread, but I maybe I'm mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
No, I don't. I bought every single DLC there was to buy for Mass Effect 2 & 3 for instance. Didn't buy the one DLC 1 had though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
No you don't, because you keep misrepresenting my position and then arguing against it. And you also keep throwing false equivalencies in there for good measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
No, honeybun. This practice has to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Then you advertise as such. Call it: Star Wars Casino Battlefront 2 for Rich People. Sell the game at $1000. Or whatever you want. Heck, sell the Super Titanium Deluxe Edition for $1000000. And make it 18+ as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
But don't tell me it's NOT pay to win when it is demonstrably PAY TO WIN just as in those mobile games I don't play because they are PAY TO WIN. Also, don't tell me it's NOT GAMBLING when it definitely IS GAMBLING.
Not really, as long as you advertise as being such. Why the deception?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Senua’s Sacrifice is 11 hours at most (more likely between 6 and 8) to play through, and people love that game. And only $40. You see, there is this concept called replayability. Do you remember Crono Trigger? If you wanted to, you could beat it in 30 minutes flat too. Or you could take 30 hours with it. It was all up to you.
It's a very weak point you have, as what is going on now is not exactly like what came before. Right now we are trying to ensure that this stuff goes away because the while was already taken, but I'm afraid pandora's box is already open thanks mainly to CS-GO, Overwatch and GTA V. Which leads us toQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Mainly because of the gambling non-gambling element in products marketed squarely at 13 year olds. And of course the whales (read: vulnerables)Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Embed is working. It's the front end though; some javascript is broken right now making the some of the post features not work. I assume some update broke a CDN link or something along those linesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mojo
You have to use the phpbb tags to do any quoting, stylizing or embeds around here these days
If you need a refresher course on these, here is a link
https://www.phpbb.com/community/help/bbcode
rofl I was just going to comment that the amount of points Banana is wrong at is insurmountable and I couldn't possibly start to argue against one of them because he'll just come up with 10 more before I'm done. Hat's off to Jack for going for it.
I'll just take this oneQuote:
No...you're not 'invested'. Just because you think Captain Picard is cool, doesn't mean you have to buy every Star Trek thingy that ever comes out. If it's something you will enjoy and it's affordable for you, then buy it and have a blast. If you're going to be miserable and frustrated over the number of transactions, or if you simply can't afford to have an enjoyable experience, then....DON'T BUY THE FUCKING GAME.
Don't be this obnoxious when you're so fucking wrong. I'm not invested because of an IP, I'm invested in the game mechanics. I can't speak for other people but there is absolutely nothing out there that plays like Blizzards RTS. I can't just go play another RTS because there are none. This is like saying if they make football pay2win you can just go play basketball because it has balls and you wear shoes to play it. It's not the same!
* Because you're definitely going to misread this again: I'm taking a franchise I'm invested in as an example because I couldn't explain what makes the Battlefront franchise compelling because you couldn't pay me enough to play that shit.
Yeah, and I needed a full minute to re-calibrate my eyeballs after rolling them so fucking hard. Basically it says "Video games are fun, and loot boxes are part of the game, so we made those fun too". Would you rather the screen flash a warning saying "Strap in fuck-tard, we're charging you money and you aren't gonna like it"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
I did. ExtensivelyQuote:
Nah, you explain. You came up with the comparision.
This statement provides some insight into your flawed thinking. Playing video games is not an "accomplishment". You're playing with a toy.Quote:
Did the kid need that "badass fuckin ninja figure inside!" in order to get something accomplished?
Your use of the term "progress" suggests that you take your video games a little too seriously. They're not real Jack. Ok?Quote:
Was the kids progress hampered by lacking that specific item?
Also the word "hampered" implies that there is some verifiable minimum standard of progression speed in video games. There isn't. I've been playing Clash of Clans for 5 fuckin years and I'm still on town-hall level 9. I've spent more than a year just upgrading walls. It's a grind. But if someone spends money to buy gems and get to level 10 before me...so be it. I wouldn't say that my progress has been "hampered" by not spending money. I progressed through the game at a pace and investment total that best suited my needs. If the game didn't offer me that choice, then I would have simply played a different game.
Ummm....yeah. I mean, the words "badass ninja figure inside" didn't appear in tiny print under the ingredients list. It's on the front of the box, with vivid coloring, enhanced sizing, attractive posing, and high-impact words usually followed by exclamation points. It's a well known fact grocery stores will put the products they intend to move the most on the shelves closest to eye level. A store can change its top selling products just by changing which shelf those products are on. Prices ending in 99 cents are a psychological manipulation. So are 2 for 1 sales, or anything followed by the phrase "limited time offer".Quote:
Was the kid manipulated psychologically in order to get that particular item?
All human beings really need is food, water, and shelter. A wanting for anything else is really the result of a psychological manipulation. Why did you expect video games to be immune to that?
So they're good salesmen. Bravo to them. Why is it a crime?Quote:
Yes, the psychological manilation needed to get you to spend more. The unboxing experience of these lootboxes is also quite pico bello.
Well beanie babies don't actually 'do' anything. They exist to be collected. So in order to accomplish the goal of a complete collection, you did in fact need at least one of every specific beanie baby.Quote:
No, and I assume no one needed those beanie babies in order to accomplish something else much easier than if they didn't have that specific beanie baby.
Completing the collection without that specific beanie babie was not just harder...it was impossible!
Well maybe you pirated it by word-of-mouth, but if you follow the chain backward, Konami got paid somehow.Quote:
A friend told me that cheat code. Different.
It's not different. Just because you never patronized those phone lines doesn't mean they didn't make money. People frustrated with the pace or difficulty of the game could spend money to advance more easily.Quote:
In my experience, this never happened to me. Different.
What if you don't sell it to someone else? What if you just keep it forever and use it entirely for your own enjoyment. Does that mean you didn't get your money's worth?Quote:
You can sell that controller to someone else. Or chew on it. Different.
Or you could buy them on amazon for a tenth of the price at stores. Does that mean the stores are evil? Or is it just smart on their part when they sell you a new console and say "you'll need a cable. You can buy one on amazon for 10 bucks, or buy ours for 30. Ours is right here, Amazon will take at least two days. If you wanna play that game you just bought tonight....then you need to put up an extra twen-spot right fuckin now bro!"Quote:
You could buy these in any store at varying prices. Different.
See above. Just because ALL the stores are doing it doesn't mean it's not gouging. Also, a broke ass friend could come over to your house and play your guy on star wars. So it's not differentQuote:
Again, you could buy these in any store at varying prices. You could even borrow one if you were a broke ass. Different.
Are you saying that video game packaging doesn't explicitly state "subscription required". I just googled some ps4 game box art and it seems that many of them do in fact contain that labeling. If all you're calling for is some consistency in labeling, then I guess I can get behind that. Most mobile games i see say "contains in game purchases". That seems like fair warning enough. If you want something more explicit than that, I'd say you're being a bit of a crybaby.Quote:
Sure, as long as you advertise being an online subscription service in advance no one has a problem with it.
So your'e saying that you'd be ok with the in-game bilking if your upfront cost was lower? I thought this was all about the kids or something?Quote:
I was unaware that you paid google $60 to make use of its search features
This is bullshit. It's widely publicized that consoles are sold pretty close to cost, or even at a loss, with the idea that it creates a revenue stream of future purchases in the form of games and accessories. The whole video game industry is built on assuming a long line of repeat purchases from a single customer. I simply don't believe that the video game industry would embrace this if it really pisses off new gamers and sours them on repeat business. Obviously, it's not as big of a problem as you seem to think it is.Quote:
The thing is they never advertise these features. I mean, it's kind of obvious why, but I assume I have to mention this anyway. You only get to know this, particularly if you are the casual gamer they prey on, AFTER you already bought the game "because I like Star Wars". Oh, and let's not go into preorders, that one is for a different day.
LOL at the idea that only 'tangible things' have value.Quote:
LOL, comparing buying tangible things to microtransactions.
What does it cost to open the black box? If it's equal to the average of 50 memory cards, 600 broc & cheese, 250 tic tacs, and 100 polished stones. Then it seems pretty fair to me.Quote:
The only way this would compare was if buying the memory card implied you paying for a black box, which could contain the memory card, but also some broccolli and cheese, a few tic tacs and a literall polished stone. And then out of every 1000 black boxes, only 50 would contain a memory card. Also, of different sizes because why the hell not. The other 950, 600 would contain raw broccoli and cheese, 250 would contain tic tacs, and 100 would contain polished stones.
.Quote:
Oh, and BTW, River City ransom saves were codes. You had to input a code to get your character back
Yeah, and I'll bet there were codes you could put in that would give you a pretty good character, even if you hadn't 'earned' that character through game play. You could enter "JUSTIN BAILEY" on Metroid and start with a loaded Samus. No one knew that unless they read or heard about it from Nintendo Fun Club news, which only existed to bilk a few extra dollars from enthusiastic, impatient, or frustrated gamers.
Dude....we didn't have the internet. Video games were not mainstream enough to be advertised in prime time. If you wanted to know what was up, you needed to read the magazines. The only reason I knew Final Fantasy existed is because of Nintendo Power. It made me want to buy the game. I did end up buying the game. So....yeah, game makers benefited ALOT from that shit.Quote:
LOL, those that made the games really did benefit from selling those magazines back in the day.
So?? Also, you know Star Wars caliber IP costs money right?Quote:
Cuphead recently launched at $30. No microtransactions, no PVP, no lootboxes, no DLC yet, it's not even a known IP of, shall we say, Star Wars calibre? It's just a solid good game. It sold 1 million copies at full price in 2 weeks.
Ok, they're aren't. Don't worry.Quote:
I don't want slot machines in games aimed at 13 year olds.
You wouldn't care if you could afford it. And if you can't afford it, then maybe you're spending too much time playing video games.Quote:
I also do not want PAY TO WIN mechanics in full priced supposedly AAA titles.
You've said what you don't like. You haven't offered a potential solution. You just want to keep throwing a tantrum until someone bigger and stronger comes along and makes the bad people stop being bad.Quote:
I think I mentioned these quite a few times in this thread, but I maybe I'm mistaken.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat???? You mean you made a purchase decision based on your own needs, preferences, and budget all under your own free will??? How the fuck did you do that with all these greedy corporations controlling your mind!!!???Quote:
No, I don't. I bought every single DLC there was to buy for Mass Effect 2 & 3 for instance. Didn't buy the one DLC 1 had though
Why? Who is getting hurt? You and Oskar keep saying how much money the game will make.....so obviously they have an audience that isn't too offended by what they're doing.Quote:
No, honeybun. This practice has to stop.
Honestly, this feels more and more about you not wanting to pay, and less and less about keeping kids away from slot machines.Quote:
Then you advertise as such. Call it: Star Wars Casino Battlefront 2 for Rich People. Sell the game at $1000. Or whatever you want. Heck, sell the Super Titanium Deluxe Edition for $1000000. And make it 18+ as well.
no...it's 'pay to win fast'. Different.Quote:
But don't tell me it's NOT pay to win when it is demonstrably PAY TO WIN just as in those mobile games I don't play because they are PAY TO WIN.
It's not gambling cuz baseball cards.Quote:
Also, don't tell me it's NOT GAMBLING when it definitely IS GAMBLING.
Dude....if you advertised a game as being "1 hour long" and still charged $60 bucks...it wouldn't sell. People would consider it a ripoff. Yet, back in the day, ALL the games were like that. Obviously the definition of "ripoff" has evolved over the years, and now I'm saying you're taking it too far.Quote:
Not really, as long as you advertise as being such. Why the deception?
Ok....so 'it's all up to you'. Great, we agree. Play fast, play slow, it's all up to you. Some people might choose to play 'the long way', but are also willing to pay extra for a boost. How does that diminish YOUR experience?Quote:
Do you remember Crono Trigger? If you wanted to, you could beat it in 30 minutes flat too. Or you could take 30 hours with it. It was all up to you.
Stop with this....13 year olds don't have credit cards!!! An adult has to intervene in order for the 13 year old to spend any money. Yes, he can buy gift cards and use them online but he's limited by A) how much cash he has, and B) How often he can get to a store that sells gift cards. He can't go into debt. He can't blow off the mortgage payment to buy more lootboxes. And if he really is in a situation where he's spending "too much" on this stuff, then the overwhelming contributing factor is a lack of parental oversight. While that's sad, it's certainly not the job of the video game industry to sacrifice potential profits just to pick up the slack for a few bad parents.Quote:
Mainly because of the gambling non-gambling element in products marketed squarely at 13 year olds
Grown people making their own decisions is not a problem for anyone except those specific grown-ups. I simply don't believe that game makers are trying to "lure in" new gamers just to snatch $60 from them and not really care if they get pissed off after the fact over add-on transactions. That would completely undermine structure of profitability that drives the industry in the first place. The whole idea is to encourage repeat business. I flat out don't believe that there is some kind of agenda to simply screw over the unsuspecting noob with a disappointing product, bank whatever you can now, and fuck the future.Quote:
And of course the whales (read: vulnerables)
If an adult is disappointed with a toy he bought....I'm not shedding any tears for him.
LOL, Banana the troll strikes againQuote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Just went to pinch a loaf and was scrolling through my phone while I sat there. Saw an article about how EA has listened to the outrage and is changing how they deliver this new star wars game.
Apparently pre-orders are shitty.
Holy shit...the free market worked!!
You do understand, I assume, that Nintendo is just one publisher which also happened to be the dominant console maker back in the day right? What about all of the other devs? Did they have magazines too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Whatever it's cost, you'd be GAMBLING for your memory card. The Nile is also a river in Egypt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
LOL. I'll bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
It wasn't thrown into my face. My progression was not hampered because I lacked it. It was not cut out from the game prior top release just to be readded as paid content later. They were upfront about it back then. It did not cost more than the game itself.
Exactly, but one which wants to manipulate you into dumping all your money into it, for no reason other than to keep playing with the toy. Don't throw in money, the toy becomes tough; throw in money, the toy becomes easy. The amounts of money are not children's candy prices either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
An audience that doesn't KNOW what they are doing, banana. There is massive a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Ever heard of the frog in the boiling pot metaphor?
The money you lose at them is very real. Thank you for slowly arriving at some sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Another false equivalency. Great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Say it upfront and if I want I'll pay. Why the dishonesty? Why the bullshit? Why the insistence that gambling isn't gambling? Why the SAAS while insisting I pay for entry as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
You can collect them? Which means they have actual, intrinsic value right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
[quote="Banana"]Well maybe you pirated it by word-of-mouth, but if you follow the chain backward, Konami got paid somehow./quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkSYX0N07CQ
I learned of it organically, so no, Nintendo didn't get paid on that one thing, as, you know, they owned Nintendo Power and not Konami.
You play mobile games. I don't, because I despise the "free" mobile game accepted monetization practices. I would not want for full price console games to become like "free" mobile games, because, again, I PAID TO FUCKING PLAY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Throw in there the fact that I do not wants kids gambling (for memory cards, keeping in line with the analogy earlier which you found so fair), and then you get the entire argument for the millionth time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
[quote="Banana"]Ok....so 'it's all up to you'. Great, we agree. Play fast, play slow, it's all up to you. Some people might choose to play 'the long way', but are also willing to pay extra for a boost. How does that diminish YOUR experience?
/quote]
Ever heard of multiplayer? PVP? That damned activision patent I just showed you? Why, oh enlightened banana, do you think the focus is so much on multiplayer battles nowadays? Combat prioritization, fuck story. Why do you think this is?
There isn't. They just make any progress impossible. Here, a spreadsheet for you as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dhQ/edit#gid=0
[quote="Banana"]Why? Who is getting hurt? You and Oskar keep saying how much money the game will make.....so obviously they have an audience that isn't too offended by what they're doing./quote]
Kids, gambling. People with gambling tendencies being exposed to gambling while others swearing up and down it isn't gambling. People who want to just play single player games with certain monopolized ips. People who buy the games expecting to play the game hitting grindwalls and paywalls. General game design is getting hurt too. I can keep going.
[quote="Banana"]Stop with this....13 year olds don't have credit cards!!! An adult has to intervene in order for the 13 year old to spend any money. Yes, he can buy gift cards and use them online but he's limited by A) how much cash he has, and B) How often he can get to a store that sells gift cards. He can't go into debt. He can't blow off the mortgage payment to buy more lootboxes. And if he really is in a situation where he's spending "too much" on this stuff, then the overwhelming contributing factor is a lack of parental oversight. While that's sad, it's certainly not the job of the video game industry to sacrifice potential profits just to pick up the slack for a few bad parents./quote]
I will stop when they stop targeting these games at kids. Need for Speed: Payback has lootboxes and progression hampering in it, for christ sakes. 2017 will go down in history as The Year of the Lootbox.
I'm done bro. Keep trolling.
https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...78#post2280878Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
I see that you literally do not read posts nor reason
Got no speakers on this PC man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
And it kinda sounds like it is over...
Oh no no no. It's far from over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Today is launch day. So it's bombs away.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...battlefront-ii
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...battlefront-ii
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/st...battlefront-ii
https://www.slantmagazine.com/games/...battlefront-ii
It's just begun.
The problem is, as was discussed a million times already, Star Wars being such a huge IP it will sell no matter what. But there is enough of a shitstorm now for consideration, leading to them turning off money conversion entirely TEMPORARILY.