Difference between weak and smart plays preflop

I know there is a fine line between weak play preflop and smart play. I am usually a tight player preflop but not a rock. I am very hesitant to preflop raises though. I hate calling raises with hands like AJ and 10-10. Heres an example of one hand from recently.

Balltilyafall is at seat 0 with $3.30.
Pookets419 is at seat 1 with $24.30.
psdsangel is at seat 2 with $7.90.
1986Mets is at seat 3 with $29.15.
swcscott is at seat 4 with $3.90.
Drive2GT68 is at seat 5 with $47.70 (sitting out).
sarg_pepper is at seat 6 with $38.25.
SeaDuck is at seat 7 with $25.90.
toml_8 is at seat 8 with $19.65.
duffydo is at seat 9 with $14.05.
The button is at seat 8.

duffydo posts the small blind of $.10.
Balltilyafall posts the big blind of $.25.

Balltilyafall: -- --
Pookets419: -- --
psdsangel: -- --
1986Mets: -- --
swcscott: -- --
sarg_pepper: -- --
SeaDuck: -- --
toml_8: Ah Jh
duffydo: -- --

Pre-flop:

Pookets419 folds. psdsangel calls. 1986Mets calls.
swcscott folds. sarg_pepper folds. SeaDuck raises
to $1.35. toml_8 folds. duffydo folds.
Balltilyafall folds. psdsangel calls. 1986Mets
calls.




I hadnt seen him raise in the 2 orbits i'd been there but I folded expecting I was dominated. Was this a smart move or should I have called and seen the flop? This is about the tightest fold I've made preflop to such a small raise but I will almost always fold A-10 or KQ to any sizeable bet preflop. Should I be calling raises with those?

reraise to isolate with AJ suited, it's a great fucking hand. same with TT.

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Originally Posted by ChezJ

reraise to isolate with AJ suited, it's a great fucking hand. same with TT.

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umm...these hands are very easily dominated. i would not want to go heads up with either. i think of them both as drawing hands. with AJs youre drawing for the nut flush, the nut straight, or top two pr. with 10s, youre drawing for the set or a rag flop.

either way you want more than 1 person in so you get paid off when you hit. it really makes no sense to take AJ heads up in a 10 person ring.

I agree with journey, AJ and 10-10 are not great hands by anymeans in a 10 person game. I really think I should have called this hand and tried not to get sucked in on an A-high flop. But at these low limits its hard to tell with so many fish. I will often be hesitant to call AI preflop with QQ or KK thinking I'm beat only to find out they pushed with A-9.

Easy call if he plays fit or fold. If he's fairly aggressive even when he misses, I probably fold.

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Originally Posted by Staple Gun

I agree with journey, AJ and 10-10 are not great hands by anymeans in a 10 person game. I really think I should have called this hand and tried not to get sucked in on an A-high flop. But at these low limits its hard to tell with so many fish. I will often be hesitant to call AI preflop with QQ or KK thinking I'm beat only to find out they pushed with A-9.

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you shouldnt be playing such textbook poker. call the raise with AJs, its a great hand with tons of potential. if you have position, all the better. after all, its only one raise and it makes other people want to join the hand too (good since its a drawing hand). if the flop is A low low and he bets, dont be so quick to fold. throw out a raise and see if he doesnt slow down a bit.

you want to play hands like this until given information that you're beat. dont assume you're beat.

Call a pre-flop raise with AJs and position.

I'll fold AJo to a raise if I'm out of position ... unless I've seen them raise with trash.

Calling out of position with AJs is marginal (but I do it anyways) ... I probably need to hit the flop pretty hard to take it further.

mj

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Originally Posted by journey075

you shouldnt be playing such textbook poker.

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I know this is true of higher stakes games with people who know what there doing, but is it stilll relevant in such a low stakes game like this which are stocked with fish who only care about their own hand?

Ill reraise with either hand here as long as i have position. theres way too much chance that he is trying to pick up the blinds here. especially if he hasnt seen a flop in a while.

If he checks it to me ill bet the flop but if he goes into passive mode ill soft bet the turn and check it down on the river, if hes playing a big pair the soft flop bet will bring him out if the woodwork.

my2c

NomaD

I dont see why he would be trying to pick up blinds in a 25 cent ring game. Especially when he knows at least one of the limpers will call, probably both (which they did)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Staple Gun

I agree with journey, AJ and 10-10 are not great hands by anymeans in a 10 person game. I really think I should have called this hand and tried not to get sucked in on an A-high flop. But at these low limits its hard to tell with so many fish. I will often be hesitant to call AI preflop with QQ or KK thinking I'm beat only to find out they pushed with A-9.

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No, they are not "great" hands but they are both extremely playable under most circumstances. In this case you were on the button and so should have at least called the raise. Reraising wouldn't necessarily be a bad play, but as you know often the reason for raising and reraising is to get position - here you already had that, so I would possibly just favour calling the raise knowing that you would probably be in a pot with 3 or 4 others and that if you hit the flop, you could win a fair chunk. If you missed the flop and there was a bet, you could still get away from the hand cheaply. If you missed and it was checked to you, you could use your position to try to steal the pot, as you might still hit something on the turn if called.

By the way, if you don't call all-in bets with KK, I suggest you are probably folding many winning hands. The only hand you are losing to pre-flop is AA - if you are fairly sure your opponent holds this, then of course you fold. But you are a big favourite over any other pair and if your opponent holds anything else, such as a big A, he still has to hit to beat you. If you get KK cracked, then you just have to lose your money - there's no disgrace in that.

And I would not usually recommend calling an all-in with QQ unless a loss won't damage you too much or it's short handed. If you're against AA or KK then you're in deep trouble, against AK it's only a slight favourite, and even an oppoent playing Ax or Kx, suited or not, can hit something to beat you.

I find many players overrate QQ - and the other hand they overrate is AQ.

I fold AJs here to 5bb raise if the raiser has been playing fairly tight. with TT I might be more inclined to call.

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Originally Posted by Staple Gun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journey075

you shouldnt be playing such textbook poker.

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I know this is true of higher stakes games with people who know what there doing, but is it stilll relevant in such a low stakes game like this which are stocked with fish who only care about their own hand?

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sorry, but i didnt check your stakes. umm, if you want to play textbook poker, go to limit. NL is all about creativity and thats why i love the game. i personally would just find it boring if i followed sklansky's advice religiously. work on postflop play way more than starting hand selection.

and at those limits, call an AI every time with KK or QQ, it will be profitable in the long term. ive laid down KK preflop at my stakes but its only with an amazing read. consider longterm here. if you lose half your BR calling KK to AA thats fine. but over 100 AIs with KK at those stakes, you will definitely be up. those players are garbage. i played NL .10 earlier cause i couldnt find an open seat at NL100. something like 80% saw flop every time..it was disgusting. i saw 10BB raises wtih j2s. id honestly consider calling AIs with as low as 9s.

"I dont see why he would be trying to pick up blinds in a 25 cent ring game. Especially when he knows at least one of the limpers will call, probably both (which they did) "

My bad, I didnt see the hadnt raised in 2 orbits part of the text. Even so with position id call with at least the 10-10 if not both.

NomaD
No Fixed Address...

nice fold.