General Strategy: Tight Makes Right or Keep It Real?

OK i hope one or two of you will share your thoughts on this...

I'm naturally a moderately loose-aggressive player, I think. I find i can win a few games with it... (especially SnGs) or at least break even. Of course, my boom/bust variance is quite high, and i'm not making money consistently.

I constantly feel i ought to be tighter tighter tighter wait for the hands tighter tighter Ax and K10 is no good in middle postition and so on.... but i just feel my aggression and dominance of the table draining away as i sit there waiting for the premiums.

I appreciate that tight/aggressive is the way to go to maximise wins and minimise losses, but... is it better to try and force yourself to play "the right way" or just... to play as tight as you feel comfortable with.

I think there's two options... either i'm damaging my poker and bankroll and enjoyment of the game by becoming a rock, or i'm just a LAGGy fish waiting for a massive bust who ought to be playing TAGG.

Thoughts?
Do you think you have a natural "style" which it's hard to change?
Do you think it's worth trying to change?

Being loose aggressive is dangerous since you are playing more mediocre hands which can get you into difficult spots, if you can't get away from those hands you are going to end up losing a lot of money quickly. A loose aggressive player will probably be best off playing at a weak (too) tight table where he can pick up lots of pots (and get away from hands where it is clear that he is beat).

However there is a limit to how loose you can be, if you are too loose you will be a losing player no matter how good your post flop play is.

Being tight is not "natural" since the reason we play poker is to get action and the only way to get action is to be in the hand. Its something you have to force yourself to do. You might want to try multitabling, since you will get more good hands and this will allow you to play more hands.

You can continue your style, but you need to improve your post flop play, thats where the LAAG style flourishes. If you can play a great post flop game you can be massivly profitable. However that doesn't come overnight :)

if everyone played tight, the only time we'd all make money is AA vs KK vs QQ vs AK.

Play how you want - read SS (or read it again). The variance will be higher if you are gambling more, but as said above can be very profitable.

First 2 months or so I played I was very tight, got sick of the bad beats and quit playing for a month, then I came back to the game and loosened up my style, I've had a lot more fun, shown a bit of profit & I can't wait to get back to the 'table', even after bad beats.

If sitting the table waiting to move in with a big pair and folding 80-90 % of your hands doesn't sound like fun, don't do it. It's NOT the only way to win. But just starting out, it's probably the easiest way.

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting. Keep them coming! I find it really interesting talking about overall poker style/strategy than "what should i do with KQ when the flop is xxx" micro-strategy.

Anyway I think really my play depends a bit on being the "Big Fish" at the table. Words were chosen carefully..

"Big", as in i'm expected to raise pre-flop if i have pretty good cards, to which a bunch of people will fold as they don't want to get mixed up with me.

"Fish" because in a way I want people to think i'm a fish. Sometimes it works well for me to play badly and lose a chunk of your stack, because when you mentally stop playing like that and start playing the cards, people think you're still calling with rubbish or drawing hands... leading to lovely situations like sitting on a full house, with them betting into you, taking ages to deliberate over each call as if you're still on a mad draw which you really shouldnt be doing.

When this happens a couple of times, players start thinking you're dangerous - could be sitting on a monster, could be just betting to scare people... and i think they become much more inclined to just fold to you. the "cant be arsed messing with him" situation.

Of course you have to be careful you don't spadge your entire stack away on some stupid play. :D

I think you're making a mistake choosing one over the other. A good player has to combine them both.

If your table is full of Rocks, get in there and raise those rags! They'll fold, and if they don't... you're beat so you can get away from it.

If your table is full of maniacs or other Laggys, then definitely tight is right.

Also, as was said before... the looser you play, the stronger your post flop game has to be. You've got to find where you're comfortable and operate within that zone. I could never play Ripptyde's style, but I'm not TABTA, either... we all have our zones.

So the question of whether to play tight or loose? The answer is Yes. The real question is "When?"

You mention that when you wait for premium cards, you lose your aggression when they come. Why? If anything you should be more aggressive, as it's much more likely than normal that you have the best hand.

To me, the most effective LAGGy style focuses (as said above) on stellar [light years ahead of where I am] post flop play, and maximizing use of position. It's easier to learn to use position than to become an amazing post-flop player, so make sure you're doing this as you're learning.

Personally, as I play more and more I'm getting tighter and tighter AND my aggression is rising higher and higher. Seems to be working for me.

Thanks guys.

Fortune 500 - you make a good point, you need to switch speeds depending on the table. Being able to play both depending on the situation is the optimum... I do think however, that people have a natural way of playing that they find it hard to get away from - a lot of players probably never do.

JeffGB - I don't know why i lose aggression. I think it's possibly fear of my table image. Strangely! There was a guy on my table last night who played 2 hands in about an hour... and folded on the flop both times. I kept thinking "if that guy ever raises i am SO out of there"... and i don't want to be that guy who just sits there and gets bitten by blinds until AK turns up, then raises everyone out of the pot, or gets his AK cracked by 72o and goes crying to mummy cos life isnt fair.

An unrealistic vision of a tight player, maybe!!! I have a lot to learn. :D

I think people do have a natural style before they begin. The author is naturally LAGG. I am more comfortable being TAGG. Until you can do both well, seek out tables opposite your style to maximize profit.

Last night I found myself at a very tight table with several doubled stacks. I decided to go loose aggressive on 'em. It was exciting to raise so many more hands but too nerve-wracking for me to be comfortable yet. Ultimately profitable, but way swing-y. $25 to $60 to $14 to $80 to $65 when I left. I had one guy steaming at me and telling me my own stats and calling me a maniac. Which definitely helped me get more callers on my full house!

about your image of a tag player... you give people too much credit. even if you've folded every hand for an hour, 99% of people will treat you the same. last night, i caught my cards in streaks. i get ak/kk/aq. then i'd go ahead and keep raising for a few hands after that if they were not total crap. and i'd still get folds. nobody cared that i was raising 10 times in a row, they only cared that they didn't have good enough cards to call. even if i was raising with 10 8 os, i'd pot the flop and they'd fold it to me. that imo is being loose aggressive in a room full of tighties. but by no means was i playing every hand, and every single hand that went to showdown was premium.

if you want to play lag, IMO go to 6 max. otherwise, i'd say if you're playing more than 25% of your hands in full ring, its safe to say your post flop skills are not good enough for you to make as much as if you folded more.

post flop play is where poker really begins.

Online, you can be tight and profit usually

Live games though, you almost *have* to be loose to succeed in NL. You can not fold 10 hands then come out raising with AA because the table will read you like a book.

Being tight also has it's advantages, you can rep big flops, and sometimes take them down on the river if your opponents don't have much of a hand.

With SNGs (assuming an average table), I'm the opposite of most people and play very tight at the beginning when the blinds are small and progressively loosen up as the stakes get higher. The benefit is that I always have a decent amount of chips to play when I "wake up"
and get in the action; players who are observant think I have to have something if I'm playing the hand. When the blinds go up, people play tighter and I steal a lot of pots. If I have one, I'll show a premium hand if all fold which reinforces my "tight" image. Works at small stakes, anyway.....

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Originally Posted by jmontis

Live games though, you almost *have* to be loose to succeed in NL. You can not fold 10 hands then come out raising with AA because the table will read you like a book.

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Does this come from experience for you? It certainly doesn't fit what I've seen, but my live game experience is limited to campus games and bar tournaments. In my experience, camping there has been if anything more effective than online.

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Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

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Originally Posted by jmontis

Live games though, you almost *have* to be loose to succeed in NL. You can not fold 10 hands then come out raising with AA because the table will read you like a book.

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Does this come from experience for you? It certainly doesn't fit what I've seen, but my live game experience is limited to campus games and bar tournaments. In my experience, camping there has been if anything more effective than online.

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That doesn't count at all. If you play vs crappy players then you should always play TAG. my home game goes like this: foldfoldfoldfoldfoldfoldfoldfoldfold

AA all in, double up.

But that doesn't work with players that aren't brain dead.

Don't you often have to reach enormous stakes to get away from such idiot players in B&M play? I've always heard that a 3/6 in B&M plays like an online .25/.5.

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Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

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Originally Posted by jmontis

Live games though, you almost *have* to be loose to succeed in NL. You can not fold 10 hands then come out raising with AA because the table will read you like a book.

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Does this come from experience for you? It certainly doesn't fit what I've seen, but my live game experience is limited to campus games and bar tournaments. In my experience, camping there has been if anything more effective than online.

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ya it does actually. I've played in quite a few live games and in a couple cardrooms, and any veteran players are going to catch on very quickly onto how you play. They are going to bluff you more often, and will give you much less action when you're showing strength.

At this cardroom in Fort worth, there were some asian thugs who I could tell were pros, and were raising without looking at their hands. They would stay in the hand or raise depending on how you reacted..

It means when you have position, use it. Cards are secondary.

Of course though, if you're in some random game with weak/loose players, tighten up.

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Originally Posted by jmontis

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Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

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Originally Posted by jmontis

Live games though, you almost *have* to be loose to succeed in NL. You can not fold 10 hands then come out raising with AA because the table will read you like a book.

---

Does this come from experience for you? It certainly doesn't fit what I've seen, but my live game experience is limited to campus games and bar tournaments. In my experience, camping there has been if anything more effective than online.

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ya it does actually.

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I play live $1/$2 NL every day, and am TAG. I see flops about 15% to 20% of the time. There are PLENTY of bad players at this low level who will call even the firmest of rocks. There is NO way you have to be loose to succeed in NL live games (at least games in Atlantic City and Vegas).