Card room etiquette?

I have a few questions regarding etiquette at card rooms:

1. What is the customary amount to tip a dealer if:

You win a showdown?
You win because your opponents muck preflop?
You win because your opponents muck postflop?

2. If one or more players are tipping out $20 or 50 to the dealers (1/2 NL tables) as they leave, is it expected that all players will?

3. Is it considered universally rude to leave a table after winning a big hand?

4. Is it customary to announce "I'm going to be leaving at such-and-such time" or "after one more orbit" etc?

Thanks!

1. It's a percentage when you win a showdown, but im not sure what it is. I usually tip $1 or $2 depending on the size of the pot playing 2/4 and 3/6. How much to top depends on the size of the flop. If you win a huge hand, even when your opponents muck post flop, the dealer should get a tip. If they muck pre flop and you win blinds, nobody should think any less of you for not tipping.

2. I've never been at a table where people tipped that much, but if I have had a good streak with a dealer I will throw him/her 2/3 bucks when they leave.

3. I dont think anything about people leaving after winning a big hand. Some people find it offensive but I think they are usually just upset it wasn't them winning the pot.

4. It's nobody's business when you plan to leave. I dont announce shit unless I'm telling the dealer to deal me out for x number of hands.

I don't tip.

I leave when I want to.

I don't talk.

I'm a nice guy.

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Originally Posted by Shark Bait

I don't tip.

I leave when I want to.

I don't talk.

I'm a nice guy.

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I am curious if you tip people in other service jobs - waiters, valet, bellmen, etc. Is it just poker that you don't tip in, or do you not tip anyone as a matter of course?

I'm not blasting you or anything. The non-tippers in a poker room are such a rarity that it is really a non-issue.

I tip if the pot is medium to big. If the pot is really small then sometimes I don't tip.

It's important to tip dealers, IMHO.

I met and had lunch with one of the owners of Commerce Casino (the largest brick & mortar poker room in the world).

He was telling us that the dealers are paid minimum wage. But the IRS knows they are making tips, so the IRS is taxing them at a rate much higher than their hourly wage. What this means is that if the dealers do not make money in tips, they will owe the IRS taxes on earnings they never even made!!

I tip my waitresses, bartenders, and strippers too, so might as well tip the all important poker dealers!

Anyway, a tiny pot, like just the blinds, I usually do not tip, or tip a little (like $.50 if they have those denominations). Any pot larger than that, I'll tip a $1. And nice big pots, I'll tip $2, or more if real juicy.

Don't feel you have to tip when you leave just because someone else does. But if you really liked the dealer, and did very well, you may want to toss a couple bucks his/her way.

You may also leave whenever you want. Some players will get upset if you leave after a big pot, particularly the ones that just lost all their money, but you're not there to make friends with your weak opponents, don't worry about it, leave whenever you want to. Not necessary to announce it either, it's your game, your money, your business.

Relax and have a good time, it's a little nerve-racking playing in a B&M poker room for the first time, but it's easy to get acquainted with the etiquette and action. Probably the most important thing to remember is NOT to string your bets. If you plan on making a bet or raise, take your time, announce RAISE if that's what you're doing, figure out the amount, and in one motion, move that stack of chips into the middle.

A common beginner's error - let's say you have the nuts, the opponent before you bets $25, you're obviously very excited, it's your turn, you move $25 into the middle to match the bet, and then reach back to your stack of chips to raise it another $200. Well, you can't do that. One motion. First announce RAISE, so there's no confusion. Then figure out the amount you want to bet - ie - $225, and put all $225 in the middle at once.

Good luck and have fun!

Good advice on string bets, I forgot about that but I have seen many people do it.

One thing to be very sure of too, and it may sound a little elementary, but make sure you are well aware of the betting structure of the table before you sit down. Example: On more than one occasion I have been at a table with people who have told me it was their first time playing live in a casino. One guy bought in with $50 and was down to $18 within an hour at a 3/6 table. After the flop it's checked to him and he pushes all in. He didn't understand that he could only bet $3 at that point in time. Needless to say he was notified that he couldn't do that, then the remaining players in the hand folded rapid fire.

He obviously had a good hand because he hadn't caught anything at all for the first hour, then goes all in out of the blue but he only won a very small pot because he apparently thought all poker was played like he had no doubt seen on TV.

I have also seen people look at the dealer like he was crazy when on the BB and the dealer gives them the option to raise preflop. Nothing says new player like a dealer saying "Option?" and a player saying "Wait...what now??".

Bottom line is, get to know the basic environment before you sit down. I have had friends just come watch for hours before ever playing and they always learn one or two basic procedural things that they didn't know before.

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Probably the most important thing to remember is NOT to string your bets.

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You are exactly right on this one Tyson. I always tell a new player when they sit down to make sure they announce or come out with all the chips at once. This is the one new player mistake that can't be fixed if they screw up. Everything else is fixable. I hate it when someone string bets, because I have to be the bad guy and push the money back and explain. They get embarrassed, and I'm the bad guy. I hate being the bad guy. Not good for business.

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Nothing says new player like a dealer saying "Option?" and a player saying "Wait...what now??".

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Yeh, a lot of new players will think they have to put 3 more dollars out when you tell them "option". At the first sign of confusion I just tell them "you can check or raise". Usually on the 4th or 5th time they will finally get it.

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What this means is that if the dealers do not make money in tips, they will owe the IRS taxes on earnings they never even made!!

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At the place I work, we get a box assigned to us every night. All tips go in it. At the end of the night, we have to go to the cashier and count down the tokes with a cage person and a security guard. They record the # and it's paid out on the next check. No screwing the IRS here unfortunately.

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Anyway, a tiny pot, like just the blinds, I usually do not tip

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No dealer expects a tip when the pot is that small. The hand takes almost no time to deal in those cases anyway. Alot of players, especially the regulars on red chip games, will tip 1 dollar regardless of the pot size. That is great too.

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Don't feel you have to tip when you leave just because someone else does. But if you really liked the dealer, and did very well, you may want to toss a couple bucks his/her way.

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Agreed, no one should ever feel like they they HAVE to tip. It is certainly optional. I try to treat everyone the same during the hand, whether they tip or not. It's just a matter of being professional.

If you don't tip - watch out for the disgruntled dealers that are out to get you. I know a lot of dealers that will intentionally kill your hand if you leave it unprotected for just a second if you aren't a tipper. Interpret the slightest motion as a check, etc. There aren't a whole lot of places where the dealer can screw you over, but if you aren't tipping you'd better do everything right.

Also, if you don't tip, please don't take forever to make your decisions. Time is money.

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2. If one or more players are tipping out $20 or 50 to the dealers (1/2 NL tables) as they leave, is it expected that all players will?

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If you feel more comfortable waiting until you leave to tip then do so. I wouldn't base your tip amounts upon what other people are doing, but rather what you think is fair and reasonable. **** If you wait to tip when you leave though make sure that all the dealers' tips are pooled. That means that all dealers from a particular shift take an equal share of all the tips given. At some places though dealers keep their own tips. If you seem them taking a drop box with them from table to table when they rotate, this is a pretty good indicator that they keep their own tips. If you're not sure then you can simply ask a dealer or a floor person. If you wait till the end to tip and dealers keep their individual tip then you're basically tipping the last dealer you happen to get for all the work the previous dealers have done. ****

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If you don't tip - watch out for the disgruntled dealers that are out to get you. I know a lot of dealers that will intentionally kill your hand if you leave it unprotected for just a second if you aren't a tipper. Interpret the slightest motion as a check, etc. There aren't a whole lot of places where the dealer can screw you over, but if you aren't tipping you'd better do everything right.

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One place they can get you as well is splashing the pot. People tend to get cocky or excited or whatever and throw chips across the table when it's time to bet. Sometimes when people do that their chips will land in the pot or close to it. I have only seen it happen one time, and the dealer was being a dick the whole time besides this incident, but a guy called a $4 bet when the dealer wasn't looking and 2 chips went into the pot. Play did not continue until the guy eventually bet an additional $2 because the dealer didnt see him actually put all 4 chips on the table the first time.

Hey Lonnie, very good points coming from the dealer's perspective - yeah, time is money, so players sitting there not paying attention and causing delays is actually costing you money.

Do you find players listening to their walkman/iPod are less inclined to follow the action and cause delays (did someone raise? who's in? etc..)

I tend to be not horribly social when I play, but I haven't taken my iPod to the tables. I'd be curious if the dealers care in anyway.

Do you find dealing the game actually helpful for your own play? Do you analyze any of the situations or are you more on automatic pilot waiting to quickly shuffle up and deal the next hand?

Tyson,

I've found the iPod players to be very in-tune to the game. They are listening to their music and focusing on the game. Since they can't hear, they usually watch and follow the action very carefully. Book and newspaper readers are generally very attentive as well.

The least attentive are the gabby, talk to everyone players. They can't seem to shut up long enough to take action on their hands and I'm constantly having to get their attention.

I should also note that the iPod players - generally solid players. The book/newspaper readers - the reason they are reading is that they play TABTA poker and get bored. I would really want to have a strong hand when going up against a reader.

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Do you find dealing the game actually helpful for your own play? Do you analyze any of the situations or are you more on automatic pilot waiting to quickly shuffle up and deal the next hand?

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I love poker, so I do analyze each situation. I love trying to figure out who has TPTK, TPBK, is betting their flush draw, running a free card play, etc. The beauty of dealing is that I am involved in the game without having a hand to distract me. I can totally focus on the reads/action of the game. The longer I deal, the more often I'm right about what the players are holding. The reads aren't much good online, but recognizing the betting patterns of loose passive and tight passive players definitely does transfer to the online game. LAGG and TAGG guys are pretty hard to read still since they are betting/raising with and without the goods. Still working on that. Like everyone else.:lol:

I gotta be honest. I don't feel good about the tipping and don't feel pressure to do it. The way I look at it - the casino is taking out 10% of every pot to begin with, the dealer is getting paid to deal and do a good job regardless, and most importantly there is no guarantee I'm going to make any money by the time I leave the table which means it's entirely possible that the casino, dealer, and other players will all leave with more money than me.

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Originally Posted by Jason

I gotta be honest. I don't feel good about the tipping and don't feel pressure to do it. The way I look at it - the casino is taking out 10% of every pot to begin with, the dealer is getting paid to deal and do a good job regardless, and most importantly there is no guarantee I'm going to make any money by the time I leave the table which means it's entirely possible that the casino, dealer, and other players will all leave with more money than me.

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I don't see tipping dealers as being the same thing as tipping in any other industry.

The reason for that is because when I go to a restaurant and get good service I will tip to reward that service. In poker I tip after winning a hand, but it isn't because I think that dealer did a great job on that hand. The dealer probably didn't do anything different on that hand than they did on the others, I just won that one, so I tip. It would be silly to tip as a reward for dealing me a winning hand.

I tip because I know those guys don't make very good money. So, if they can sit there and deal for a few hours and entertain me, it's worth a few bucks from my pocket even if I don't win. We aren't talking about much money anyway. If I buy in for $100 and double up i'm looking at maybe 6-10 bucks depending on how many hands it took me to make it to $200.

Just trying to say lighten up...the casinos don't like pay employees more money anymore than they like letting you win more.

Is there tipping in tournaments? How does one do this? I'd assume it's different, since in a tournament you aren't playing with "real" money (since the chips don't equal cash).

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Originally Posted by Jason

I gotta be honest. I don't feel good about the tipping and don't feel pressure to do it. The way I look at it - the casino is taking out 10% of every pot to begin with, the dealer is getting paid to deal and do a good job regardless, and most importantly there is no guarantee I'm going to make any money by the time I leave the table which means it's entirely possible that the casino, dealer, and other players will all leave with more money than me.

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The same argument can be used for paying for food in a restaurant, ordering a drink in a bar, using free valet parking, etc. Most people just consider the tip as a cost of playing B&M poker and do it. If most people didn't tip, the card room would have to pay the dealer a ton of money, instead of sub-minimum wage. The rake would be more, or there simply wouldn't be as many card rooms.

Having said that, if you don't feel good about tipping, don't to it. It's not required. The other 9 people at the table will probably take up your slack hopefully.

I think when you win a huge pot you almost have to tip the dealer.

The difference with the restaurant or the pizza delivery person is because the only thing I’m out is the tip – I still get equal value for my money. I pay for a pizza and I get a pizza. When I play no-limit poker, I can lose my entire stack at a moment’s notice. I need all the chips I can get to survive. The dealer, as has been stated, has nothing to do with me winning. Casinos are making plenty of money to pay dealers whatever they are worth without players having to fund it.

If I could be guaranteed to leave every session ITM, I probably wouldn’t have as big of a problem with it, but when I play poker, I need to look out for myself. If I’m going to exhibit charity, it’s not going to be at a casino where they are trying to get as much money from you as they can 24/7.

The argument to pay someone solely because they don’t make money isn’t applied to many professions. Who among us tips the server at McDonald’s, the gas station attendant, or your child’s teacher at parent teacher conference day?

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Originally Posted by Jason

The difference with the restaurant or the pizza delivery person is because the only thing I’m out is the tip – I still get equal value for my money. I pay for a pizza and I get a pizza. When I play no-limit poker, I can lose my entire stack at a moment’s notice. I need all the chips I can get to survive. The dealer, as has been stated, has nothing to do with me winning. Casinos are making plenty of money to pay dealers whatever they are worth without players having to fund it.

If I could be guaranteed to leave every session ITM, I probably wouldn’t have as big of a problem with it, but when I play poker, I need to look out for myself. If I’m going to exhibit charity, it’s not going to be at a casino where they are trying to get as much money from you as they can 24/7.

The argument to pay someone solely because they don’t make money isn’t applied to many professions. Who among us tips the server at McDonald’s, the gas station attendant, or your child’s teacher at parent teacher conference day?

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I think you're underestimating the value of a quality dealer. they keep the game in order, moving along. correct peoples play, as well as handing out cards. the're sort of the master of cerimonies for cards... sucky dealers well.. suck. the game is more fun when the dealer isn't getting in the way of the action and keeping things moving. i think that's worth *something*

also recognize the dealer is the inital arbiter of disputes humans aren't good at being objective. how much will it cost you by losing a big pot because he mucks your cards? how much will it cost you to to tip? your money, do what you want, but take into account all thats going on.

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If I could be guaranteed to leave every session ITM, I probably wouldn’t have as big of a problem with it, but when I play poker, I need to look out for myself. If I’m going to exhibit charity, it’s not going to be at a casino where they are trying to get as much money from you as they can 24/7.

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First of all you're cheap. Second, you're directly correlating the casino with the dealer which isn't totally correct. The rake goes to the casino as a charge for them providing the game, the facilities, amenities, etc. Tips go to the dealer for the services they provide. Tipping dealers is customary and if you don't feel comfortable doing so then don't play live. Dealing is a service industry and like most service industries tipping is expected, albeit optional.

The dealer has nothing to do with regards to you having a winning or losing sessions, yet you are holding them responsible. Their job is to control the game directly through their dealing, arbitrating disputes, correcting mistakes, etc. If they do this and do this well then you should tip. If they do a horrible job or are rude, etc. then don't. ALso be considerate of new dealers and take that into consideration. If you want to be cheap and save a buck or two then I'd avoid the rake at casinos and avoid tipping dealers by staying at home and playing online. You obviously don't appreciate the difference between a quality dealer and a poor one so stay at home.

Jason I am quite sure there are far more dealers that support families with their paychecks than McDonalds employees. Also, dealers have to be far more intelligent than your average McDonalds employee. You can take people's orders at a fast food place half asleep. As a dealer you can't stop paying attention for 30 seconds.

As for teachers, they know full well when they decide to be a teacher that they are going to make that money. AND, they continue to go to many years of school and get certifications to teach. All the while they are well aware that teacher's pay sucks. How many dealers go to 4 years of school and need to be certified by the board of education to deal? Hell, most state income taxes bring in billions...should all that money go to teachers? And how many dealers do you know that get 3 months off per year??

No worries though. I have been at more than one table where some asshat was winning his share of hands and not tipping. The entire table was on him like white on rice. For every person like you there are 10 others who appreciate a good dealer.

related question -- what is the deal on tipping the chip runners? nobody ever told me i had to do this but sometimes i see people doing it. usually i try to go and get the chips myself but sometimes the chip runners insist on doing it for me. if i don't tip them anything, i feel kinda weird but then again why should i start out at a chip loss when i haven't even played a damn hand yet?

also, am i supposed to tip the cashier at the window when i cash out?

ChezJ

just curious about a couple things since the great state of NC doesn't have card rooms for me to frequent. My only B&M experience was in San Jose on a business trip. I played 1/2 Limit and the dealers wer horrible in my opinion. the rotated out before they could get in any kind of rythm and kept their eyes on the rest of the room instead of the table. You felt like they were bored the whole time. Under these circumstances there was MAYBE one dealer that I felt deserved any kind of tip.

Was this experience unusual? Was it relative to the tables I was playing? Are there better dealers on the more expensive tables or do all dealers take turns at all tables?

Jobupoker,
If you felt like you were getting bad service..then consider tipping less or not tipping at all. As much as it hurts me to tell someone to consider not tipping, it is a pay for performance kind of job. 1/2 limit has to be murder anyway - small pot/big rake %/tips must make this game very hard to beat. I thought the 2/4 was bad. My guess - the dealers on this game are getting stiffed alot and can't wait to get off the game. There's no excuse for that behavior though.

I enjoy dealing the lower stakes games myself. The players aren't uptight, usually they want to talk a bit. They are there to have fun. The 1/2 NL game is the same way - lots of fun to deal and interesting to watch. Once you get to the 10/20, 15/30, and sometimes even 4/8 - it's shut up and deal time. These guys want a dealer to keep their head down and crank out hands as fast as possible.

Where I work, the dealers push every game in the room, working 30 minutes at each. I'm sure some of the places with big games have high limit/low limit dealers. Most of the time the room tries to give each dealer a shot on each game, to equalize the tipping.

Our floormen generally buy the chips for the players, and they can't accept tips anways, so I can't speak on that issue. I would definitely throw the chip runner a toke if I were coloring up (chipping up) while sitting at the table. Someone else might be able to comment better on this that plays at a bigger room with dedicated runners.

Tipping cage people is up to you I suppose. I've always given a dollar or two when I win. Very few players tip the cage people out. I think they make in the $8-$10 an hour range generally. Cage people in a poker room work very hard, shoving around racks and cash for an entire shift for not a lot of money. They have to count down my tips every night, and I always tip them out.

I work for tips, so my default answer is "tip them". :lol:

It’s nice to have a quality dealer, but again, my thinking is that’s their job. It’s not like we’re asking a favor from a stranger off the street. I’m not going to feel guilty about not voluntarily giving the casino money that they’re already favored to get in games anyway. I’ve played many home games with terribly slow and incompetent dealers, so there’s nothing about dealing that’s going to ruin my enjoyment of the game at home, casino, or otherwise. The game should play itself, not the dealer playing the game. The casino has rules to follow and there’s nothing the dealer or them can legally do to disadvantage a player because he’s not tipping.

To each his own, but I need more than “you’re supposed to” or “you should appreciate it” or a laundry list of peer pressure tactics.

Suppose you sit at a table for 3 hours and tip $5 per hour, which is probably on the low end of the lowest stakes table and already close to minimum wage and not even counting what other players are tipping. During the 4th hour, you go all-in and double your stack. You haven’t just lost $15 in tipping, but you’ve now lost $30 because you didn’t have those chips to double up with. The effect is compounded.

So, I would say for me best case scenario, I may tip the dealer(s) if I am A) ITM and B) at the very end of my session so as not to adversely affect my play and output.

Jason, you have the right not to tip. You would get the exact same service at my table. I do have a few questions though, as I find the non-tipper an interesting study.

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It’s nice to have a quality dealer, but again, my thinking is that’s their job.

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True. I get paid 4.75 to do the job. Would you deal poker for 4.75/hr? I know that's not your problem/fault, but it's the way the poker economy is set up. In a perfect world I guess the card room would pay the dealers 30/hr and it wouldnt be an issue.

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It’s not like we’re asking a favor from a stranger off the street.

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How so? I think it's pretty similar.

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I’m not going to feel guilty about not voluntarily giving the casino money that they’re already favored to get in games anyway.

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The tips go to the dealer, not the casino.

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The casino has rules to follow and there’s nothing the dealer or them can legally do to disadvantage a player because he’s not tipping.

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The dealer can kill or not kill an unprotected hand anytime they please and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. This is totally within the rules and at their discretion.

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During the 4th hour, you go all-in and double your stack. You haven’t just lost $15 in tipping, but you’ve now lost $30 because you didn’t have those chips to double up with. The effect is compounded.

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If you are a winning player overall, the tips won't affect you that much. If you are a losing player overall, at least the dealer got some $$ before you lost it all.

Jason - do you tip waiters? You know for sure you will "lose" money when walking into a restaurant. The restaurant economy and poker economy are both set up the same as far as waiters/dealers go.

If tipping bothers you that much, then you obviously can't do it. But at least acknowledge the fact that you are taking a free ride on the shoulders of the players that do tip. Without them the dealer seat is empty.

Hagakure - thanks for the tokes man.

My pleasure lonnie.

Jason, you are acting like the house has some advantage when it comes to poker like they do in every other game at the casino. With one or two possible exceptions, a player with enough knowledge of the game gives himself a greater edge at the poker tables than anywhere else in the casino.

You aren't playing against the house. They get the rake and that's it. If you are that worried about something eating away at your chips you should be complaining about the rake or the blind structure, not tipping.

If you play at high enough limits, and I mean even at 4/8 minimum, the 1 or 2 bucks a pot that you toss to the dealer isn't going to have that much of an effect on your bankroll. Of course, maybe that's the answer behind your whole rationale right there.

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Originally Posted by hagakure

Jason, you are acting like the house has some advantage when it comes to poker like they do in every other game at the casino. You aren't playing against the house. They get the rake and that's it.

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Au contraire, mon frere, the house indeed has an advantage at poker just like they do at every other game in the casino. If they didn't, they wouldn't provide it. There's no poker player whose skills I would take over the rake if I could have it - it's a guaranteed 10% of the pot everytime. Yes, they get the rake and that's it, but you underestimate the value of that as you do the tipping. Losing those chips adds up and compounds.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

Would you deal poker for 4.75/hr?

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I'm not debating if dealers get paid what they are worth or deserve. I'm debating where the honus to pay them lies. I argue that it doesn't lie at the player's responsibility. The player is already down the rake and has to contend with other players. The casino has enough money to pay them but they certainly don't have to and won't if players are willing to pick up the slack.

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Originally Posted by Jason

It’s not like we’re asking a favor from a stranger off the street.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

How so? I think it's pretty similar.

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No, the dealer made a choice to do the job and agreed to the salary before he or she dealt a card.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

The dealer can kill or not kill an unprotected hand anytime they please and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. This is totally within the rules and at their discretion.

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I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure they can't treat different people differently. If they kill my unprotected hand, they have to kill everyone's unprotected hand with equitable treatment and there is survellience video to clear up any misunderstandings. Furthermore, any dealer who would try to leverage special treatment to those who tip or don't tip isn't deserving of a tip to begin with.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

If you are a winning player overall, the tips won't affect you that much. If you are a losing player overall, at least the dealer got some $$ before you lost it all.

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I disagree and illustrated exactly why in that example and I strongly disagree that at least the dealer should get some money if I go broke.

Ok, so do you tip waiters or not? The restaurant business works the same way. They rely on the customers to provide the bulk of the salary for the waitstaff.

The dealer is crucial.

I think tips make a difference. When a border-line situation come up they might be more willing to look out for you if you treat them well.

This guy has obviously not spent too much time in casinos at all.

The house takes a rake so they can make something off of the game. Having 7 tables in your casino takes money to run. Rakes are capped too if i'm not mistaken. In a no limit game if a pot gets up to $1,000, the house doesn't make $100.

Your rationale could be applied to just about anything in the world though. You are basically saying you don't want to spend money something (tip), because something else (rake) is already costing you money. So, do you not put oil or transmission fluid in your car because gas and tires are too expensive? Ok, those things are necessary, so being more realistic, do you not ever wash your car because GM or Ford has enough money to send someone to your house and wash it? I'm sure Pizza Hut makes enough money to employ enough drivers to get your pizza to you in 10 minutes too, is that a source of tension for you as well? Oh, and I almost forgot, go ahead and stop paying taxes and social security. Social security may not even be around anymore when you're old enough to collect, and the country certainly makes enough money without your tax money.

I don’t see anything that makes sense in your analogy. You pay for oil because the car won’t run without it and you pay taxes because it’s the law.

If you’d like to sum up my aversion to tipping in an easy statement, I don’t like it because I need the money/chips for the game. A baseball player needs his glove, a golfer needs his clubs, and a poker player needs his chips.

I do tip at restaurants where the wait staff makes less than minimum wage and dealers and I am not in jeopardy of losing everything in my wallet and the restaurant is not taking an extra 10% of what I pay for my meal.

Restaurants pay very little for the food they serve you. They pay even less for the drinks, especially soft drinks. With a restaurant making that kind of killer profit on everything, wouldnt you think they could afford to pay the wait staff more?

Maybe one day you will actually go to a casino and play long enough to know the difference between a good dealer and a bad dealer. As I said before, it's dumb to think a dealer is "good" because you are getting good cards. However, a good dealer manages the table well. They keep players in line if needed, they deal quickly and efficiently, they dont misdeal over and over again, they take charge of the table...need I go on?

If you need your precious chips too much to tip $2 bucks an hour or so you aren't a very good player to begin with and the dealer is making enough because other players are tipping him with the money they took from you.

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Originally Posted by hagakure

If you need your precious chips too much to tip $2 bucks an hour or so you aren't a very good player to begin with and the dealer is making enough because other players are tipping him with the money they took from you.

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Ouch.

The thing that annoys me about tipping dealers (at least at Foxwoods) is that they pool the tips and split them between all the dealers. So even if I have a very good dealer and tip them a bunch, I know that they are only getting a very small fraction of that money. And the really sucky dealers are going to get the same fraction.

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Restaurants pay very little for the food they serve you. They pay even less for the drinks, especially soft drinks. With a restaurant making that kind of killer profit on everything, wouldnt you think they could afford to pay the wait staff more?

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That was the point I was getting at Hagakure. It's the same principle at work. Like I said before, the majority of the players are very cool and even most of the assholes throw in a tip. Sorry to drag this out so long, it was even messier than I thought it would be. These kind of arguments generally are.

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Originally Posted by Zangief

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Originally Posted by hagakure

If you need your precious chips too much to tip $2 bucks an hour or so you aren't a very good player to begin with and the dealer is making enough because other players are tipping him with the money they took from you.

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Ouch.

The thing that annoys me about tipping dealers (at least at Foxwoods) is that they pool the tips and split them between all the dealers. So even if I have a very good dealer and tip them a bunch, I know that they are only getting a very small fraction of that money. And the really sucky dealers are going to get the same fraction.

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I'm not crazy about that concept either. If I remember right, that's how they do it at the other table games here locally, just not poker.

Lonnie - I didn't think this would go on very long either...it's entertaining though. I haven't sat at a live table in a month...my agression is building from playing $2 and $5 SnG's till my fingertips bleed! :)

Jason, I'm curious ... do you tip the waitresses for bringing drinks and/or food to in a poker room?

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Originally Posted by hagakure

If you need your precious chips too much to tip $2 bucks an hour or so you aren't a very good player to begin with ...

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I'd argue that someone who doesn't see the compounded value of having chips in no-limit poker doesn't understand the game.

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Originally Posted by Zangief

Jason, I'm curious ... do you tip the waitresses for bringing drinks and/or food to in a poker room?

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I don't order food or drink so I don't have to deal with tipping. I’m there to play poker - I don’t want their charity and I don’t want to give them mine.

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Originally Posted by Jason

I don't order food or drink so I don't have to deal with tipping. I’m there to play poker - I don’t want their charity and I don’t want to give them mine.

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Good luck with that.

I understand the game just fine. My original answer to the question that started this thread was basically that the amount of the tip depends on the size of the pot. Your profits and/or betting potential will not be diminished to the drastic levels that you are predicting they will if you make the size of your tips relative to the size of the pot. I even said it was ok not to tip if you win just blinds, a very small pot, or a split pot. I pointed out different scenarios where different tip amounts, including zero, were appropriate.

You come out saying that under no circumstances do you ever tip. Never. Not even if you win a huge pot. Can you see why I am drawn to this debate? I totally understand the value of having chips. If you were to argue that point you would have a perfectly valid point. The only problem is, if you are going to play at a no limit table for any amount of time, you had better bring enough money with you to where tipping $10-$12 bucks over the course of the ENTIRE NIGHT will not cause you to bust. If you buy in for $500 and lose every penny of it, your money was already lost way before you got down to the point where $10 -$12 worth of tips started hurting you.

Here's something else for you to think about. Those drinks taht Zangief asked you about are free. You know what pays for things that caisnos give away for free? Their profits. Do you know where their profits come from? Players. I say drink up sir! Otherwise you are paying for a little bit of every drink served through the money raked at your table. Tell the casino that you don't want their charity and they will smile because the less you drink the less they have to give away.

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Originally Posted by Spook

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Originally Posted by Jason

I don't order food or drink so I don't have to deal with tipping. I’m there to play poker - I don’t want their charity and I don’t want to give them mine.

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Good luck with that.

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Hey, Spook - funny sig. But did you notice that they forgot a '\n' on the printfs? All those lines will be printed in a row. That's no good.

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Originally Posted by Jason

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Originally Posted by Zangief

Jason, I'm curious ... do you tip the waitresses for bringing drinks and/or food to in a poker room?

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I don't order food or drink so I don't have to deal with tipping. I’m there to play poker - I don’t want their charity and I don’t want to give them mine.

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How long do you play for? I find it difficult not to eat or drink when I always play for 6 or more hours straight.

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Hey, Spook - funny sig. But did you notice that they forgot a '\n' on the printfs? All those lines will be printed in a row. That's no good.

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That must be why the teacher is pissed. :lol: I would always forget the \n. Formatting printf statements is such a pain in the arse.

I'm sorry I even perpetuated this conversation. It's negative and Jason has his own reasons for not tipping. I'm biased so I'll shut up about that now.

Back to some other points in the thread.

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3. Is it considered universally rude to leave a table after winning a big hand?

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I think it USED to be considered rude to leave a table right before the BB hits you. I've noticed a lot of the old timers will play the blinds and their button before they leave, especially if they are winning. 90% of all players that don't go bust as their means of an exit are waiting to play every free hand they can, and this is totally acceptable. Leaving after a winning hand is just fine too. I wouldn't do it though. Who the hell wants to leave after dragging a big pot anyway?

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Is it customary to announce "I'm going to be leaving at such-and-such time" or "after one more orbit" etc?

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Nope. But if you want to be cool, you can let the dealer know that you are going to leave when the big blind gets to you or something. That way they can have a player ready to fill your spot. That helps keep the list moving. No obligation to the other players though. Remember, those guys are trying to take your money. Make small talk and whatnot, but don't forget that they want your chips.

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The thing that annoys me about tipping dealers (at least at Foxwoods) is that they pool the tips and split them between all the dealers.

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I was in that situation for years when I dealt craps, blackjack, etc. It sucked ass. The players knew we split, and I had to split tips with people that had absolutely no personality, dealing skills or people skills. The casino does it so they don't have to worry about which dealer is getting which table. This way they can also put their stronger dealers on the bigger games and not have the weaker dealers complain about making less money. Customer service will suffer when the dealers don't keep their own.

I've noticed dealers having a different attitude towards me and other people that don't tip. This doesn't go for all dealers, but a few of them for sure that I've seen. I said goodbye to one dealer as he left the table and he didn't respond and just gave me a mean look. Another player next to me that wasn't tipping either accidently left his cards a little too close to the middle and the dealer took them preflop...when he was the big blind. That guy was really pissed, but the dealer didn't care and the hand went on. Another time a dealer was talking to some other players at the table and was telling them about idiots that don't put their blinds out. Then I looked at the button and realized he was talking about me.

There were a few other stories I can't remember, but this isn't meant to imply that all dealers are mean if you don't tip them. Some of them didn't seem to act any different.

Another reason I have for not tipping is I haven't won any money at a card room. I've always ended up even or negative. Yeah yeah, tell me I suck. But I've lost money, and I would have lost even more if I had been tipping. I'd probably consider tipping if I ever ended up positive.

To answer your original question, yes I do tip at restaurants. But I usually try to avoid tipping situations if I can. No offense to any dealers, but I see the service given at restaurants to be greater than dealing. I'm not saying dealing is the easiest thing in the world (I know I wouldn't ever want to do it) but all their doing for me is giving me cards from a deck and sometimes they ask if I want to check or bet. I know there's a lot of stress involved when you're a dealer, but I don't see that as my problem.

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I know there's a lot of stress involved when you're a dealer, but I don't see that as my problem.

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You're a real class act!!! :lol:

That's kinda dirty, stiffing the dealer, and then talking about how they weren't too friendly after that. Kinda like kicking someone in the balls and then wondering why they are pissed off at you. The card room is paying the dealer to get the hands out and drop rake and that's what you are getting in that situation.

That's kind of like stiffing a waiter one week. Then going back to the same waiter over and over again every week and you start to notice he's not so friendly. Imagine that. :roll:

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Another player next to me that wasn't tipping either accidently left his cards a little too close to the middle and the dealer took them preflop...when he was the big blind.

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This is what I was trying to warn Jason about. He told me that dealers must treat everyone equal. Bottom line at any cardroom anywhere - if you don't protect your hand, and the dealer kills it - tough shit. It's kinda a rough rule, but that's the way it is. You can find it posted in any cardroom at the top of the rules "Each player is responsible to protect his/her hand". If the dealer kills it, it's dead. If another player mucks there cards and they accidentally shoot them at yours and they get intermingled, it's dead. The floorman will come talk to you and tell you "tough shit" in so many words. And nothing will happen to the dealer. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. So be careful.

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There were a few other stories I can't remember, but this isn't meant to imply that all dealers are mean if you don't tip them. Some of them didn't seem to act any different.

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There's bad apples everywhere, you know that. It's counterproductive to act differently towards a non-tipper, because the other players are all watching. I find that if I get stiffed, a lot of times someone else will tip extra on the next pot to take up the slack. It's really not a big deal.

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but all their doing for me is giving me cards from a deck and sometimes they ask if I want to check or bet.

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That's not even close to accurate and you know it.

I really think tipping is more about the gesture and recognition than it is about the money. The dealer will make his/her money by the end of the shift anyway.

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I really think tipping is more about the gesture and recognition than it is about the money.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

This is what I was trying to warn Jason about. He told me that dealers must treat everyone equal. Bottom line at any cardroom anywhere - if you don't protect your hand, and the dealer kills it - tough shit. It's kinda a rough rule, but that's the way it is. You can find it posted in any cardroom at the top of the rules "Each player is responsible to protect his/her hand". If the dealer kills it, it's dead. If another player mucks there cards and they accidentally shoot them at yours and they get intermingled, it's dead. The floorman will come talk to you and tell you "tough shit" in so many words. And nothing will happen to the dealer. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. So be careful.

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Another dealer told me that at the 4/8 and above tables if a player just flips over one card, and the other player(s) show both cards, he will wait a few seconds and then award the pot to the player with the best hand showing both cards. I'm sure you've encountered this situation before as well. People think they're being cute by just showing one card and it bites them in the ass. This is another situation where one would want to blame the dealer...but it's in the rules. This dealers position was that at 4/8 and above, you better know this or you shouldn't be playing there. He said he gives some slack to people at the lower limits since it's a more friendly game with some new players.

Another thing about string bets...wow I can not believe how many people try to do this. I was lucky enough to have someone warn me about it before I played at a card room. But I see it at these 2/4 tables about every 20 minutes. One guy was really dumb..he announces "OK I'm going to call" and then puts out the chips and then says, "and then I'm going to raise" and grabs for more chips.

I guess my stance on tipping comes down to a couple things. First of all, I don't win. I really don't feel like tipping when I usually walk out with less money than I came with. If this were the other way around, I'd think about it. Secondly, I know it isn't nice to not tip. So I can't really defend this decision, but I feel like I shouldn't have to.

So I think the real solution here is for me to get better at poker. :lol:

Well damn dude...get better at poker, yeah, but don't come in here trashing dealers in the process. You know how many 30 minute intervals lonnie has dealt to me when I was on my way to busting out totally after a 13 hour session? If he dealt for 30 minutes and I didn't win a hand he doesn't expect me to tip. But it's courteous to do it after winning a hand. Like he said, it isn't the money so much as it's about appreciation. We have all been in home games where some drunk and/or short stack asshole tried to start shit because he couldn't understand a split pot or something. I am glad that the dealers are there to put an end to shit like that when it happens.

You can't blame the dealer nor can you penalize him for downswings anymore than you can blame your processor for the same in online games.

Good luck in improving your game, just realize that if you are friendly toward the dealers and well liked by them they can give you some VERY valuable insight into your game.

It was not my intention at all to trash the dealers. I respect them and for the most part they do an excellent job.

I don't blame the dealer for bad cards...but it kind of seems like tipping is blaming them for the good cards. :p

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Originally Posted by hagakure

Good luck in improving your game, just realize that if you are friendly toward the dealers and well liked by them they can give you some VERY valuable insight into your game.

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Like what?

OK.

It is time for me to step back in and reclaim my thread, I guess.

When I asked about "customary amounts to tip dealers", I guess I should have clarified that the dealers at the card rooms in Dallas are working ONLY for tips. They have NO hourly wage.

That said, lonnie, is there any recommendation you have? If you weren't making your hourly wage, how much would you hope to pull down from a given hand?

Also, I think it's time to get off of Jason's back. For crying out loud, some of you are just being plain mean for no reason.

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That said, lonnie, is there any recommendation you have? If you weren't making your hourly wage, how much would you hope to pull down from a given hand?

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Buck per hand, with the occasional larger tip. No flop, no rake, no tip is par for the course. Showdown/no showdown really doesn't matter. I make 4 something per hour, so it's almost like nothing.

I don't think anyone was mean to Jason. He kept coming back to stir the pot. If you look back, I did try to change the course of the thread a few times. Good thread IMO.

It's a kickass thread. Jason could have enjoyed a simple debate about the topic at hand, but he decided to pretty much discredit any roll the dealer had and reduce the job to basically a card dealing robot with no emotions, responsibilities, or BILLS!

My fiance used to be a waitress so I have a soft spot for tipping folks who don't make all that much. Usually too much of one too...because when we go to eat somewhere she's much more critical since she did the job...I tend to tip all the time. Anyway...yeah, good thread.

Lonnie, I hope to see yall soon. I am missing it. TGC SnG's aren't cutting it!

I wouldn't say anyone was particularly mean nor do I think I've been stirring the pot or discrediting the dealer. I've just posted my opinion and responded to other's queries. Yes, dealers have bills. Should I (the player) be responsible for paying them? No.

Total dollars per year, I'm quite sure I tip and donate to people/organizations than most people. I just don't think the casino is a place I should be expected or pressured to do it for the reasons I've already stated, which have nothing to do with lack of appreciation for the service or compassion towards other people. I see much irony in that an industry as greedy as the gaming one that people feel compelled to pressure or be pressured into giving back in that forum.

To any dealers who feel slighted, I suggest unionizing and putting the pressure to getting the pay you deserve where it belongs. Trust me, the casinos can pay it.

I speak on this issue as a Casino Dealer so I am biased; however, most players dont realize that poker rooms are an added bonus in most casino's.

Realistically the Casino doesn't make that much from its poker rooms. A good poker dealer might hit 40 hands/hour if the table is fast. At my Casino most tables are capped @ 3 or 5$ rakes. 5*40=200, 200 dollars an hour isn't jack all after subtracting the overhead of the poker room. Most of their profits come from table games and slots. Add that to the fact that in B.C gov't takes 60% of gross revenues (not net) off of all table games, 75% off of slots. The picture isn't as rosy anymore.

The difference between delivering pizza, or taking your food order and dealing at a casino is the level of skill and concentration involved, I know because I've done all 3. A casino dealer must watch the entire table every second he is there for security purposes, he must also remember each players face should he get up and walk away for some reason (many new players will sit down and push the hold button to the dealer saying I'm back), he must also watch out for rookie players making stupid mistakes, this is all done while pitching cards to 9 or 10 players who are going to be extremely pissed if a 2 flips over and their pocket kings are in a dead hand. And thats a fraction of the shit we put up with on a daily basis.

Yes the Casino does make a lot of money, yes they could afford to pay us more, but they won't. Pizza hut could pay its driver's a hell of a lot more, but they dont, and the keg or some other restaurant could pay its servers a decent wage but they wont. We could unionize, but then we could kiss our jobs goodbye, besides the risk of losing our jobs, unionized casinos are in much worse shape because shitty dealers DONT get fired.

The argument that it compounds your losses doesn't hold a lot of water either, for example, you buyin to a NL game for 500$, allin preflop w/AA, you double up, so you toss the dealer 2$ now your at 998$, 30 minutes later you go allin against a new player for 500, you win with say... KK, toss the dealer 2$ now your stack is at 1496$. Your argument assumes that your purely doubling up everytime you go allin, this doesnt happen very often as other big stacks will rarely give it to you.

Just my humble opinion. :whistle:

OK lets go back to the original question...how much?

At 2/4 I've seen a range from $0.50 to $3 in a tip after winning a pot. Keep in mind the dealer spends more time at higher stakes than 2/4.

buck or two a pot, possibly more if it was an exceptional hand or massive pot.

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Originally Posted by Aceofone

buck or two a pot, possibly more if it was an exceptional hand or massive pot.

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should this change based on the pot size/stakes? Is it more appropriate to tip $5 or more at a 30/60 table? I know I won't be playing there anytime soon, but I'm just wondering.

oh...I forgot to mention...also regarding the original question...The place I go has clearly defined rules about leaving. Any player may leave at any time and should not be harassed about it. I don't announce when I'm leaving. I think it may be a sign to some players. Like I might be in a hand just because I'm about to leave. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I still don't say anything.

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Like I might be in a hand just because I'm about to leave. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I still don't say anything.

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You know, you are right. I have found that a lot of player that are in "I'm leaving" mode will not play anything other than a Group 1 hand. Quite often the guy with his jacket on, chips racked up, wife standing by waiting for hit to get up - he will show you AA KK AK.

30/60 - these pots should be good for 2-3 bucks a pot, throw out a 5 for a big pot. If you like the dealer and feel like being generous, go for it. Tips/rake at these stakes are pretty insignificant compared to the bet size. Being a dealer, I want to tell you to tip $10/pot, but that just wouldn't be honest on my part.
:lol:

Where I work, most of the 10/20 players are tipping $1/pot, sometimes $2. These are veteran card players generally. The good think about these games is they run very fast, so the money is actually better than a 4/8 game where they are tipping a little more per pot.

lonnie, do you ever deal the high stakes games -- like 100/200 and up? the players don't even have small chips at the table, just blacks, so i always wondered how much they tip, and whether the dealers fight over who gets to work there on a given night.

The biggest game we have in our room is 10/20, occassionally 15/30. On red chip games, I always make sure to have 5 white chips in every pot I push. At places that rake each pot instead of taking time - they have to break the bigger chips down to rake. I don't know what happens in big games where they take time.

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and whether the dealers fight over who gets to work there on a given night.

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We push in on each game in the room, doing 30 minutes on each. Some dealers are stronger than others, but we each get the same amount of time on every game. There's no other way to make it fair.

OK lonnie...I gave in and decided to be nicer. Whenever I won 2 pots with the same dealer I gave him $1.

I have another question...a couple of the dealers were very friendly and making us all laugh and we were having a pretty good time. The problem is these dealers sometimes make mistakes. Today a guy was being pretty cool and poking fun at everyone, asking everyone if they wanted to live straddle and telling us how good it is. :lol: But he made a mistake when someone called out of turn and he dealt the turn card before someone had put in their chips. This resulted in the whole ordeal of dealing a new turn card, etc. As fun as he was being, I really hate it when they make mistakes...Any comments about this from a dealer?

Mistakes happen. Alot of them are dealer errors, but bad players account for some of them too. The two times I have burned and turned before the last player called a bet/raise, that player had his/her cards covered with their hand and had their head up their ass not paying attention. Still the dealers fault, since you need to always have a count of the number of hands in/out of the current betting round, but attentive players=mistake free game. If you've ever noticed, a lot of dealers will tap the table twice with their hand before burning/turning. This is a signal to the players that the dealer believes the current round to be over. It's also a signal so that the players can let the dealer know if there is unfinished business before the burn/turn. Good players can really help a game run smoothly. I've been bailed out by attentive players numerous times.

After having dealt poker for the last 3 months, I've found it best to STFU during the play of the hand. Do a little small talk in between hands, during the shuffle and pitch, but shut up once the hand starts. Seems to work well for me. I do tend to talk a little more at lower limit games, but am always looking out for the player that looks aggravated by it. Then I'll STFU again.

As for the dealer that screwed up...what are you going to do? At least the guy was trying to do something, albeit his energy was somewhat misplaced. I would never recommend a live straddle, as I don't know whether the guy in the big blind would get pissed off by it or not. The dealer was probably out of line, but at least he wasn't apathetic.

Dummy up and deal.

Just don't forget to tip the pizzaman. Working in the restaurant industry for over 20 years, more specifically the pizza industry, I have found that people who don't tip generally are never going to tip or tip well, as there attitude is similar to Jasons. Then there are people on the other end of the spectrum who over tip in many cases. In my industry speciffically, pizza delivery, it is commonly known that people have decided exactly how much they are going to tip before the driver even gets to the door. The service he provides or doesn't provide has very little bearing on the amount of the tip. But, at the end of the day, good tips and bad tips all average out. Is it sometimes frustrating, yes. But getting a negative attitude based on one customer, rather than focusing on those that are tipping well is not the way to handle it. Continue to treat them all equally, and in the end you'll get yours.

Anyway I have noticed you talk about killed hands a couple of times Lonnie. Living in ND, not many poker rooms, what exactly are you meaning when you say they go unprotected.
Thanks

Yes, that was the case here too...the guy they skipped was covering his cards with his hands. I'd put full blame on him, but the dealer just wasn't paying attention. I kind of like the chatting. Makes it more fun. Just my experience that the dealers who STFU usually never make mistakes.

Live straddling is the worst idea in poker. If I was at a table where a dealer recommended that shit I would sit out until a new dealer got ot the table.

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Originally Posted by hagakure

Live straddling is the worst idea in poker. If I was at a table where a dealer recommended that shit I would sit out until a new dealer got ot the table.

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I don't disagree with your first statement, but why does it bother you so much? I see people do it all the time. One dealer said to the table, "I've seen it work.........once." :lol: I think it's just a weak attempt to get people the fold because he could be playing anything and it's especially strong when the flop is rags.

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Originally Posted by Pizzaman

Just don't forget to tip the pizzaman. Working in the restaurant industry for over 20 years, more specifically the pizza industry, I have found that people who don't tip generally are never going to tip or tip well, as there attitude is similar to Jasons.

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Not to say that I agree with Jason, but I generally tip for service. It would have to be REALLY bad service for me to stiff a waitress or delivery guy, but I don't go overboard just because they're depending on my tips to live.

On the other hand, I don't believe we should be held hostage by the service personnel's ability to eff us up. I will not tip out of fear -- fear of the dealer 'accidentally' killing my hand; fear of the waitress putting a booger in my burger. I will tip when it's appropriate, but don't expect much if you're just phoning it in.

And on a third hand: when I delivered for Pizza Hut one summer in the mid-90s, during the "Bigfoot" promotion, I frequently would deliver one to a doctor or lawyer's house. The Bigfoot pizza cost 11.80...and these people would stand there patiently while I dug through my cash bag to find two dimes.

That's why I don't stiff unless you suck at your job.

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Originally Posted by Shark Bait

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Originally Posted by hagakure

Live straddling is the worst idea in poker. If I was at a table where a dealer recommended that shit I would sit out until a new dealer got ot the table.

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I don't disagree with your first statement, but why does it bother you so much? I see people do it all the time. One dealer said to the table, "I've seen it work.........once." :lol: I think it's just a weak attempt to get people the fold because he could be playing anything and it's especially strong when the flop is rags.

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It's strong, no doubt, but it changes things a little too much for me. Maybe it's just a pet peeve, I dont know, but it drives me insane. I have seen it work only once too because the table seemed to be totally convinced that the guy had a great hand. I didn't have shit and couldnt have hoped to play against him, but it worked that once.

I haven't played any higher than 3/6 live. Given that, I think I hate it because 2/4 and 3/6 are hard games to beat and live straddling makes me have to be even more restrictive about what hands I play.

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Originally Posted by Molinero

And on a third hand: when I delivered for Pizza Hut one summer in the mid-90s, during the "Bigfoot" promotion, I frequently would deliver one to a doctor or lawyer's house. The Bigfoot pizza cost 11.80...and these people would stand there patiently while I dug through my cash bag to find two dimes.

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I used to carry a pouch of pennies for those types of C&|($#kers.

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Originally Posted by lonnie

At places that rake each pot instead of taking time - they have to break the bigger chips down to rake. I don't know what happens in big games where they take time.

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In timed games players have white($1) chips from paying the time. For example in a 40/80 game where time is $8 per half hour, players will throw in one $10 chip and get 2 white chips back. Also, If a player doesn't have white chips, he will ask the dealer to "chop" a larger chip from the pot, getting white chips in return. Then the dealer will be tipped about 2 dollars from the change.

(just my experience)

Going to a "real" casino soon myself. Not that this really applies, to me, but I am stimulated by the discussion, and would like to ask some of those who responded:

I used to work in a service industry myself--although I worked off of commission, rather than tips, although I think it's similar. I am kind of disgusted but how people in most service industries expect rather than work for their tips/commission.

As a dealer, do you expect to be tipped as a matter of course? If you just sat down and won a huge pot, would the dealer expect a tip? What has s/he done for me at that point? However, if, at the end of the night, the dealer has been wonderful, wouldn't it be better to tip at that point? Plus, if the dealer is being disgusting to me because I'm "not" tipping, I know not to leave a tip for them.

I guess what I am saying is that I see tipping *just* because you win a pot is wrong to my mind, but tipping because of the dealer's wonderful service, that enhanced my evening, win or loss, makes perfect sense.

It just sucks when they set the system up so tips are 'mandatory.' As some others have said here, most people think casinos are scamming them anyway--it sucks that they're also scamming the employees, but I think most players feel they're in the same boat. Maybe ya'll should unionize, lol?

Here's your options:

1. Throw the dealer a toke when they push you a pot.

2. Stiff the dealer, then wait for them not to provide a "wonderful evening", and use that as a reason that you stiffed them.

Loosen up man. Most dealers are good, friendly people. Throw them a buck when you win a pot.

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Maybe ya'll should unionize, lol?

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Nope, it's a good job as it is. The stiffs are few and far between.

Basically, I don’t talk nonsense to disturb others. There are lots of tricks that are too dirty to be mentioned. And I hope players online could avoid being contaminated by them as much as they can.

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Im curious if anyone else tips their mechanic? its a service industry and ive found that tipping invariably gets me better deals/quicker service etc.

anyone?