How to Play 32s, 42s, 43s, 53s

Many people have trouble playing these hands, and I don't see why. All that's required is a bit of careful observation during the preflop betting rounds and these are really quite simple.

-After you look at your cards, pay close attention to the players in early position. If one or more of them folds, make a "mental note" of where they put their cards.
-When the action gets to you, put your cards there.
-If no one has folded by the time it gets to you, just push them toward the center, or ask the dealer where the "muck" is.

That's all.

good one ! lol

This is hilarious, LeFou!
Nice work.

But they're s00ted!

Good Post.

First of all, I would like to say Les_worm, your avatar gets better every day.

With that said, I disagree lefou. You can not ask the dealer where the muck button is, he won't talk to you. I've tried to woo him with praise, money, women, rilla, etc. None of it has worked! He stands there at the top of the table like a rock, dealing out cards, and telling me I have options (apparently bribing him isn't one of them) or that my 7 high monster lost to four of a kind. Go figure.

very true, there is nothing like the heartache when someone outdraws your 7 high... :twisted:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

sorry I didnt mean to call you guys fish...Im in a bad mood :(

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lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

the flop is rags and you catch a piece....take it down....whats the deal here ?

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By calling raises with weak hands, it seems that you have to hope that a few things will fall perfect (assuming you're playing the hand for value), which together aren't very likely. First, your opponent just has unpaired big cards, and second, his hand doesn't improve, and third, yours does. Why even get involved in a situation like this when you can just fold?

It's pretty simple-minded to think you can just "take it down" whenever you flop anything.

Whatever it is, ive seen rippy in action and he consistently does well. Either he bangs out early on a bad beat, or he gets his big chip stack and dominates everything in his way.

Most of us could only dream of having the Great Dane Ballz that rippy has.

Dont knock it till you try it, i called a raise by a fish while typing this with 35s, flop 3 5 A, he had AK, and all his chip are belong to me.

-Chris

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsaxton

It's pretty simple-minded to think you can just "take it down" whenever you flop anything.

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simple minded ?????

please explain to me how it is 'simple minded' to bet the low end of the flop. He is betting high....you are betting low...I call raises with suited low cards on occasion with precisely that expectation...that the raiser is on high unpaired cards such as K/10, K/J, A/J, Q/J, Q/10, A/K etc

please explain to me how it is 'simple minded' to take it down when I am holding 4/5s and the flop is 4/9/6.....I am betting my opponent missed the flop entirely and will fold his cards rather than chase his overcards. Firing out a pot sized bet on a flop like this is successful 80% of the time when my opponent missed.

before you make insulting comments like this...I suggest you open your own eyes to the concept here and realize that not all players just camp out on premium hands.

Then again I had that mindset when I was a noob too....so I can understand where you are coming from

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Um, I never said it is simple-minded to bet a small pair on the flop. I said it is simple-minded to think that just because you flopped something that you can just will to pot into your stack. That is what is simple-minded. Please read and understand the actual post before responding to it. If he bets, how do you just "take it down?" If he calls your bet, how are you just "taking it down?"

Many players will bet the pot no matter what flops with overcards, and now suddenly you're faced with a situation where you have to decide whether or not your monster pair of 4's is actually good. Why even put yourself in this situation?

Besides, you will miss the flop just as frequently as your opponent, and even in the circumstance where the flop does help you, your opponent will still have you crushed a percentage of the time (and even if he doesn't, he can fake it pretty easily). So, how is it profitable to play these junk hands for value?

I realize that this is part of the whole "super aggressive" style that you pride yourself in, but that doesn't mean it makes much sense.

Maybe if you weren't so full of yourself you wouldn't be insulted by a harmless observation about something you said.

Playing suited connectors in position with a weak pre-flop raiser is goot times ... especially if stacks are deep and there are a few callers as well to build a pot.

Raising them in position and showing down the hand helps generate more action for your big premium hands too.

Camping is boring.

mj

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Yeah, it was a joke and/or joky; I've played these cards,and still play 'em when the situation presents itself.

My overall thinking is like so:
-if you're good enough to play these profitably (Cf. ripptyde) then you already know this isn't a hard and fast rule, because you already know there aren't ANY hard and fast rules
-BUT, if you're not sure how to play these cards, don't. Hence the title.

If you've got a significant stack on hand as well as a psychological edge you can call with these cards and many others. If you don't, you can still raise them. But you're bluffing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

you guys are underscoring the value of 'low' cards and dismissing this leader post as a joke

I love raising (and calling) with low suited cards....the other guy raises with A/K, A/Q....J/K etc and you call with 4/5s.....the flop is rags and you catch a piece....take it down....whats the deal here ?

low cards (even unsuited) are a good opportunity to take the pot down on the flop with junk on board.....thats why I'll call with low cards when I have the stack....if I catch a piece of the flop ...9 times out of 10 the raiser MISSED....hellllooo mc fly

think outside the box and stop camping on paint you fk'n fish

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depends on the game, i would never call a raise with a low suited connector in limit.

but i have made decent money in the no limit cash games doing so.

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Rippy is a no limit specialist, so im 99% sure he was talking about no limit ;)

-Chris

tournament or ring games ?

Both

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i normally play that style in ring games, pushing people off pots and just bully the table. but in a MTT i cant get the same accomplished.. is this because people are expecting everyone to turn into gus hansen in a tournament?

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

jesus christ what is the deal with people jumping all over my nuts lately when I post something that defies common logic in starting hand play.

now I'm 'full of myself'...LoL wtf

fucking campers are all the same. fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold ....oooooohh A/K...RAISE !!!....called.....awwww no help on the flop.....what the hell I'll chase my overcards...LoL

hereeeeeee fishy fishy fishy...come to daddy

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What is "fishy" about raising with strong hands and folding weak hands? Apparently you have some new insight into the game that we don't know about.

Are you even going to respond to what I said, or just call me a "fish?"

I think what rippy means by "fishy" is that when you have AK, raise it up 5x bb and flop comes 2 4 7, its "fishy" to ignore the POSSIBILITY that an aggro player such as rippy might've called your raise with 4 7 o/s. Therefore, when your K comes on the turn and you think your TPTK is the nuts, all your chip are belong to him :P

Rippy just points out that there are other ways to play the game, cant camp for group 0-1 hands all day long.

If we looked at rippy's PT stats, I bet he wins way more with "garbage" (as alot of tight players like to call it) such as 4 7 o/s, 35s, whatever the hand may be, he's probably winning with it because he gets in for cheap(ish) and when he hits big he destacks somebody. If your postflop play is good and you know when to cut your losses, playing Aggro like rippy can make you WAY more $$$ then playing tight and waiting for the cards.

It's fishy to think your overpair or AK will not get cracked by a 35s on a 3 5 9 flop.

-Chris

Oh, and sorry if it looks like im fighting your battles rippy, just trying to defend you because your style of play is unique and unmatched :P

-Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

jesus christ what is the deal with people jumping all over my nuts lately when I post something that defies common logic in starting hand play.

now I'm 'full of myself'...LoL wtf

fucking campers are all the same. fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold ....oooooohh A/K...RAISE !!!....called.....awwww no help on the flop.....what the hell I'll chase my overcards...LoL

hereeeeeee fishy fishy fishy...come to daddy

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What is "fishy" about raising with strong hands and folding weak hands? Apparently you have some new insight into the game that we don't know about.

Are you even going to respond to what I said, or just call me a "fish?"

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i don't mean to step on the lovely little flame war, but the key is, when someone raises pre flop, they like thier hand. they like it so much they marry it. how often does 3/4 catch a piece of the flop when ak dosn't? i have no idea. but the other guy is thinking, well rippy must have had some pretty big cards to call, the flop is raggy, i don't buy that bet, because my ak has rippy out kicked, so he pushes. rippy calls, and takes the stack.

if somebody raises pre flop, you have a chance to take thier whole stack. they like thier hand. same reason you call a raise with 66 and the flop comes A 6 2, you do a little victory dance, because you're gonna take his stack.

it's like limping a pocket pair, but slicker. That said, i think ripptyde has some wicked post flop skills. I can't do it. I think it's wise to raise random junk from time to time, simply for deception value. deception is wasted in the low limits, but i think it gets more important later.

i suppose the small suited connectors are the corralary to repping the ace.

the other thing to keep in mind, ripptyde tends to dominate a table. he is feared. that screws with how people react to his calls and raises. this is part of maintaining that image. seems pretty super systemish to me...

anyway, back to your war.

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Perhaps something should be said for the levels at which you're playing?

I suspect that this type of play pays off far better at higher stakes than at low/micro stakes. Basically, you want to reach the point that the average player is at least capable of playing only "good" hands and thinking about your play. Deception doesn't work as well against the idiots you'll see at micro limits. I'd be curious to see if there's a min. level to where this type of play stops paying off.

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I think in the 'micro' limit games you are going to see a lot more 'chasing' which makes this approach that much more difficult to execute. But in higher limit games the players tend to be a lot 'tighter' which makes this strat a little more effective provided you see some favorable flops

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Exactly. Playing against tighter players seems like it'd make it work well.

I'm comfy enough with my to try some of this out at the micros (experimentation at my normal level has always cost me in the end), but I'm not sure that the result would be worthwhile, given the level of player I'm likely to be against.

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Originally Posted by rdqlus

Playing suited connectors in position with a weak pre-flop raiser is goot times ... especially if stacks are deep and there are a few callers as well to build a pot.

Raising them in position and showing down the hand helps generate more action for your big premium hands too.

Camping is boring.

mj

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP ($62.41)
CO ($46.15)
Hero ($42.97)
SB ($46.5)
BB ($53.65)
UTG ($40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with :5s:, :6s:.
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB raises to $2, BB calls $1.50, MP folds, CO calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.50) :8h:, :7s:, :9c: (4 players)
SB bets $4, BB folds, CO calls $4, Hero raises to $10, SB raises to $20, CO calls $16, Hero raises to $40.97 (All-In), SB folds, CO calls $20.97.

Turn: ($110.44) :qc: (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($110.44) :7c: (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $110.44

Results in white below:
CO has 8s 9d (two pair, nines and eights).
Hero has 5s 6s (straight, nine high).
Outcome: Hero wins $110.44.

Hey rippy, where can I buy your book?

I play pretty aggressively compared to most players and am making small profits but not a whole lot. Id like to tune my post flop play.

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I wish I had the hand history for this but I remember one example of this play that I cleaned up on huge

It was a 1/2 cash game (online) and I raised pre flop with 4/6s.....guy pumps in a reraise...I call (head to head)...

flop comes 4/2/10 and the guy fires out a pot sized bet of about 25 bucks...(I had raised 6 bucks pre flop and he reraised me the same amount so there was about 25 in the pot after the flop)

I call his bet with my middle pair (something just told me he missed since he reraised pre flop and was firing out strong on the flop....looked like he was trying to buy it)

turn is another deuce and again he comes out firing with 50 bucks.....I stuck to my guns and called. Again I just smelled that he was weak and on a hand like A/K or A/Q

river was another rag and he goes all in for another 110 bucks....all I had was my pair of 4's and the deuces on board....I go into the tank for about 10 seconds and decided to go with my original read

BINGO...he mucks and then I am treated to a verbal assualt of epic proportions..

Jonnyfish: 'how the **** can you call me down with a pair of 4's you ****in idiot !!! jesus christ what a ****in fish....eat **** and die you f****t'

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This is amazing. I would love to be able to do this. But most of the time I am in this situation, the guy turns over AA. How often do you do this and have him turn over a better hand?

So how could you tell that he had big unpaired cards and not an overpair?

And I assume you made this read online, not in person?

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Hey, Rippy -

I heard that Daniel Negreanu is working on a poker book. I've noticed your respect for his style of play, as well as your disdain for reading poker books in general. I was wondering: will you read his book?

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As I was reading this I given pocket 7's

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

MP2 (t3105)
MP3 (t1605)
CO (t795)
Button (t1265)
SB (t410)
BB (t1470)
UTG (t1065)
UTG+1 (t1520)
Hero (t990)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7:club:, 7:heart:.
2 folds, Hero raises to t100, MP2 calls t100, MP3 raises to t325, 4 folds, Hero calls t225, MP2 calls t225.

Flop: (t1050) 9:club:, 2:club:, 8:spade: (3 players)
MP2 folds, MP3 calls t665.

Turn: (t1715) 9:diamond: (2 players)

River: (t1715) 7:spade: (2 players)

Final Pot: t1715

Results in white below:
Hero has 7c 7h (full house, sevens full of nines).
MP3 has Jc Ah (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins t1715.

After the hand the MP3 said "thought I bet high enough to get that out of there"

Thats exactly why I stay in when someone raises big ( but dont think they have a pocket pair )

I now look for players willing to bet after they miss the flop.

Either check raise them or reraise if you have posistion on them.

AK on a 376 flop against 65 is likely to lose the entire stack if the raised preflop to get out the trash.

What do you do when an A, K, Q, J, or T falls on the flop the other 76% of the time?

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

absolutely

I hear Dan Harringtons book is awesome too I was planning on picking it up

but to answer your question I definitely want to take a peek into his brain so yes I'll shell out the bucks for his book

I consider Dan Negreanu and Gus Hansen the best players on Earth right now

I just don't like these books from the 'math-heads' like Sklansky who overanalyze every situation with no regard for the psychology of the game and just key on 'odds' and 'probabilities'

These are factors I'm sure Daniel will address, but I think he will also explore the psychological aspect of the game in depth which is what I am looking forward to

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yes harringtons book is great..

dissing sklasnky because he has his style that works for him is a bit odd.. although his tournament skills are not up to par with gus or daniel, but they work well enough that he won a few wsops

then again most sklansky books are geared towards limit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangief

What do you do when an A, K, Q, J, or T falls on the flop the other 76% of the time?

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*clears throat*

It Depends.

*ducks*

I'm not exactly an expert, but I normally still bet on the flop, but run from a reraise.

Everybody has a different style. Personally I don't like the small cards. I might come in with them once in awhile to mix things up but overall I don't like them.

I call the occasional raise with 56s and such, but I prefer it to be more than 1 opponent. Earlier today I flopped 2 pair and lost to a 2 outter, but I had a guy with AA and AK nutted to the river... would have been a huge pay off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laeelin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangief

What do you do when an A, K, Q, J, or T falls on the flop the other 76% of the time?

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*clears throat*

It Depends.

*ducks*

I'm not exactly an expert, but I normally still bet on the flop, but run from a reraise.

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Well, what would you have done in this particular hand? You called off 1/3 of your chips with a medium pair. If the flop was Axx or AKJ or QTx and he bets the pot or goes all in, what would you have done?

If you say, "fold," then I think calling 1/3 of your stack preflop in the first place is a mistake. Because you are going to be folding away 1/3 of your stack 76% of the time. I think you either need to push or fold preflop.

I like to play suited connectors and gapped cards from 4 on up. So 45s, 46s, 56s, 57s, etc. I'll raise with them sometimes, limp or call raises other times. I think I had a thread on here about it, even. What you're basically hoping is to catch an aggressive player with high cards or an overpair, and flop something nice - two pair, a straight or OESD, a flush or flush draw. If you get two pair you just jam the pot, if you get a draw you proceed accordingly. I don't do as much of what Rippy does (raising/calling down with a low pair) but I have done that before at times when I had a read that told me to.

The reason I play 4 and higher is that your odds of getting a straight increase. 23, 34, 24, that's pretty much crap in my book. Less so if you're approaching it like Rippy does.

This works best against classic mid-level TAgg players who play "by the book," but have the all too common flaw that they can't let their good starting hands go. It also works best if you have good instincts and are willing to listen to them. Finally, it works absolutely the best when your stack and theirs are a lot larger than the pre-flop raise, so that the implied value is there if you hit a really strong hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

If you get two pair you just jam the pot, if you get a draw you proceed accordingly.

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How do you play a draw accordingly?

Lets say I have 89's call a $3 raise in LP and get heads up against the raiser with a $7 pot and 75$ stacks. Do you call another pot sized bet on the flop? I know that the implied odds may look good, but your flat calling will scare him, and a straight or flush will not catch his whole stack that often - he may just be betting with A high.

Ive called many heads up raises with SC's and havent hit anything and just been forced to lay down when the flop completely misses me. I dont see all these preflop calls paying themselves off the few times you do hit. I think Id rather just be the raiser with them, so that way when you do hit, theyll be more apt to think your bet into rags is BS. If the flop misses you, you can usually push em off.

I feel like I'm missing something, though

Wellllll...
I prefer OESD's to flush draws, as they are better disguised (usually) and you will get paid more often. Semi-disciplined opponents won't pay off flushes but will pay off straights quite a bit. Basically, I go off the pure pot odds with flush draws, but with straight draws (especially unusual ones) I'll nudge the figures according to how much they have left, and how much of that I think I can get. Pre-flop I wouldn't want to call huge raises, unless both of our stacks are also huge, because the implied value has to be there. I worked this out one time - I believe with suited connectors you'll get a valuable hand on the flop about 25% of the time. That's <1% chance of flopping a flush; 11% chance of flopping a flush draw; 2% chance of flopping two pair; <1.5% chance of flopping trips using one of your hole cards, or a boat using both. I'm not positive on the odds of flopping a straight or OESD but I believe they are in the same neighborhood as flopping a flush or flush draw. Basically, about 5% of the time you'll have a great hand that can be bet heavily right from the start, and another 20% or so you'll have a solid draw that will require you to start calculating pot odds and implied odds. In those situations you obviously want to improve and win a large amount of money... that's maybe 1/4 of the time, based on the average odds of hitting a flush draw or OESD by the river, adjusted downward some because sometimes you'll have to fold without seeing both the turn and river cards (bad pot odds).

So let's just rough-estimate that 10% of the time you call a pre-flop raise with suited connectors or gapped cards, you'll eventually win the pot with a straight, flush, trips, or two pair. That means if you call a $1 raise pre-flop, you want to get at least $10 out of the hand (when you hit) to make it worth your while. Hopefully more than that, though. If you can destack someone for 20 or more times their pre-flop raise, you're doing your job. The important thing to remember is that a lot of the time, 80% or more, you're just going to end up folding. It takes some patience to do this right and not get caught up trying to steal a lot of pots that aren't available to take.

Of course, none of this factors in what we'll call the Rippy play: re-raising or calling down post-flop with a low pair only. You'll have a low pair a lot of the time. Choosing to play it against an aggressive player who is betting hard on overcards is a dangerous approach that is perhaps not for all temperaments. But it can clearly affect your profitability with these hands - for better or for worse.

All this from one joke =/

I laughed, LeFou. :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I just don't like these books from the 'math-heads' like Sklansky who overanalyze every situation with no regard for the psychology of the game and just key on 'odds' and 'probabilities'

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How come 'odds' and 'probabilities' are in quotes, rip? The standard interpretation is that you mean "so-called odds and probabilities" or some such. But odds and probabilities are real things.

As I said above, if your game's on and you've got the skills, play these and any other hands as you see fit. The right circumstances can make 85o a monster.

But I stand by my original statement. Just 'cause Doyle plays any 2 to an SF doesn't mean YOU should. If you're in doubt about this shit, make 4 an absolute minimum. Preferably 5 or 6. More OESDs possible. That's all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wet_DreaMer

All this from one joke =/

I laughed, LeFou. :)

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Thanks. A 2-page joke is a little much. To recap:

Play all hands that you know how to play profitably. If you're unsure, quit looking for reasons to play more hands. That way madness lies.

Me play g00t too...

PokerStars Game #1574552639: Tournament #7284159, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/04/23 - 22:26:01 (ET)
Table '7284159 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: roddy11 (1550 in chips)
Seat 2: stabbit (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: HenryFnord (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: Kitty221 (1480 in chips)
Seat 5: babymeimei (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: warlick (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: mallomook (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: RSDallas (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: Ntertainment (1550 in chips)
Kitty221: posts small blind 10
babymeimei: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HenryFnord [4c 3c]
warlick: calls 20
mallomook: folds
RSDallas: folds
Ntertainment: folds
roddy11: calls 20
stabbit: folds
HenryFnord: calls 20
Kitty221: calls 10
babymeimei: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 5s 2c]
Kitty221: checks
babymeimei: checks
warlick: checks
roddy11: bets 120
HenryFnord: calls 120
Kitty221: folds
babymeimei: folds
warlick: folds
*** TURN *** [Jc 5s 2c] [Ad]
roddy11: checks
HenryFnord: bets 200
roddy11: raises 400 to 600
HenryFnord: raises 730 to 1330 and is all-in
roddy11: calls 730
*** RIVER *** [Jc 5s 2c Ad] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roddy11: shows [2h 2s] (three of a kind, Deuces)
HenryFnord: shows [4c 3c] (a straight, Ace to Five)
HenryFnord collected 3000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3000 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 5s 2c Ad 7h]
Seat 1: roddy11 showed [2h 2s] and lost with three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 2: stabbit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: HenryFnord (button) showed [4c 3c] and won (3000) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 4: Kitty221 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: babymeimei (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: warlick folded on the Flop
Seat 7: mallomook folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: RSDallas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Ntertainment folded before Flop (didn't bet)

nice hand fnord..... I see you won that tournament :)

Bump.

I love this thread, and it survives the unfortunate redactions pretty well

NuWere "nostalgia" LeFou

wow people were bad at poker in 2005. lol.