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I was dealt (A:club:J:heart:) and limp in from late position for 0.5$.
Flop comes (A:spade:8:spade:J:diamond:) and I bet the pot 3$ folding everyone but one player who calls. Turn is Q:club:, I bet 6$ and again he calls. River comes 4:heart:. I am a bit worried about him having a straight but bet 6$ again. He raise me all in to 22$. Should I call 16$ or fold and did I play it wrong in any way :?:
I would say hes got it. He took the bad odds on the flop and hit the straight on the turn. I would fold on that raise. Seen too many times 2 pair get killed by a straight when players dont know when to fold 2 pair.
im not sure its so apparent he has the straight. in fact, hed have to have 10-K and the only possibility that makes sense is that they were suited spades. either he was playing against pot odds, or he has the perfect flush draw that gave him the nuts.
i think that this situation is unlikely, and depending on my assesment of the skill of the player, i might call this. if i knew him to be a tight player that could drop the hammer on proper cards (this being one of them) then yes, this would ilicit a fold. however, against most fish, it is easily possible he had ace low and hit two pair. or maybe even jack low. a set is unlikely unless he is an idiot.
personally at a normal (fishy) table, id call this in a second. your bets are seeming more and more shaky as you arbitrarily increase them and maybe he picked up on that.
you are putting in 16 to take a $53 pot. do you think you have over 30% chance to win it? i do. good odds, take it.
Easy call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
More important less.
STOP BEING SUCH A PUSSY.
Have some nuts with a hand like that.
You induced a raise with your river bet. He could easily have a worse two pair or even a busted flush draw.
KT is not calling the flop bet. That's just simple. If he had K:spade:T:spade: he'd probably be more aggressive about it but that's the only 2 cards you're afraid of here.
Here's how you're going to play it next time.
Pot the flop.
Pot the turn.
Slow down a bit on the river but you're not folding.
-'rilla
I don't understand this read at all. You're not taking the action and drawing a hand from it. You're taking a hand and forcing the action to the hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo G
He's not calling the flop with KT unless he was really, really bad. And if he was that bad, Borax should have noticed.
You're only afraid of a set here and this line is much like a set. If they were going to wait to the river to raise with their set (On a draw heavy board, no less) they usually make it a bit sweeter than 16 more bucks (unless that's all he had left)
-'rilla
why are you so confident that he didnt have KTo, there's plenty of people who make pot sized calls with a gut shot to a nut str8 like in this case, of course it's a bad play.
or are you saying even if that's a remote possibility you'll take your chances on this one?
I'm with rilla. I'd say he's got QJ at the very best. And if I'm wrong, I'm paying that off, I guess.
Maybe he thought you are bluffing since you didnt raise with AJ. Maybe he limped in with A low kicker.
as i said in my post its possible but pot odds give you 30%, i think you have about 80% chance to win this at showdown. id call.Quote:
Originally Posted by bspahn
what did you end up doing borax?
the important issue here is how much it takes to call the last raise, if it had been, say $30 instead of $16 then that changes things considerably, but i agree if it's only 30% then if you think you take this 50% of the time then it's definitely a call.
I had a somewhat similar hand last night. I got T9o from the SB and called into a multi-way pot. Flop: T69. I bet the pot and got one caller. Turn: J. I bet the pot and he raised about $15 all in. I called the other $8 and he shows Q8 for the straight. Obviously I should have laid it down. He could have JT, KQ or other reasonable hands which beat me.
It still seems like a bad beat because his hand was ugly, and his catch was a 4-outer. The other 9 times out of 10 he plays this, he misses and folds to my pot bet on the turn.
Must...Learn...To...Respect...Raises. It's like kriptonite for me.
[And I was tilty anyway from having my KK all-in beat by 77.]
when i first read this i thought "set of eights" but then rilla pointed he'd most likely raise you on such a draw heavy board so i think i would call this here.
Thanks for all comments. This is what happend:
I called and he showed (T:club:9:club:) a straight Q high, taking the pot.
My read so far was that he saw a medium amount of flops (more than my 25%) and he had been chasing flush a couple of times.
So my only mistake was to bet 2/3 of the pot on the turn instead of a pot bet?Quote:
Here's how you're going to play it next time.
Pot the flop.
Pot the turn.
Slow down a bit on the river but you're not folding.
-'rilla
I didn't even consider 9T becuase I was so busy seeing how it wasn't KT. D'oh :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
The turn and river betting + the board makes this a great opportunity for a bluff. With that board and that hand, I'm pretty confident in myself and I want to be confident in my betting.
-'rilla
I usually get screwed when I play a 2pr. flop "by the book." Most of my success comes from an overbet like even a push all-in post flop.
My latest failure comes from a junk hand in the big blind landing two pair. Post flop, I led off with a 3/4 pot-size bet. Two folks called. Then, I ran into big trouble with an Ace on the turn. Call it a misread or whatever, but I thought I still had best hand and ran into a brick wall. An ace gave my opponent top two pair!:(
If I would have bet bigger (overbet) right after the flop, them I don't think the player with Ace-four would have called. A pot size bet may have had same end result.
Two pair's often an excellent hand to overbet, especially if there are obvious draws. Sometimes the folks chase the draws, and the two pair walks away with a nice win. I don't consider the two pair itself much of a draw, since it only has the same odds as drawing an inside straight.
*****Bottom line: Always watch for the open ended straight draw or the flush draw when you flop two pair. Bet big to scare it away, then win easy. If folks chase the draws, then they'll usually be fighting the odds on favorite (your two pair).*****:D Bet it bigger sooner rather than falling into a should I even call (?) situation later. :clap:
Even flopped "rainbow" hands can get messy on the turn. Ironically, in holdem, I've somewhat seldom run up vs. a set on the flop with 2 pair. Usually it's the other stuff the beats me. 2 pair over 2 pair is seemingly the most common win/lose. This scenario happens when I flop two pair and the opponent flops a higher pair. Something like an X-X pair on the turn and river gives the opponent top hand.
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about telegraphing the 2 pair with an overbet. Even in pot limit Omaha (high) where one keeps pushing to the limit, folks may not even peg you for two pair. If they miss their draws, then again you're in the money. But, please be more aware of the trips in Omaha. Two pair can still win, but it's much more common to run into a competitor (or two). If it looks like someone else made a draw, you may need to bail out or otherwise address the situation. The trips are usually a tougher read, but it's a fill-in-the-blank situation, since Omaha produces hands and nobody's typically playing just a high card.
Flopping two pair is great! Don't blow it. :rolleyes:;)
This thread was really over 5 years old. It's amazing that it's still alive!
Awesome avatar for What wouldn't Jesus do?!! Peace-out. Best wishes. Good night!
Yesterday, I hit a two pair with 2-3-4-5 on the board. I checked and folded it. Sigh. Sometimes going up vs. a five (or six) high straight is seemingly too obvious. After folding the hand, I rechecked the histories and the player appearing to hit the straight had hit one earlier in a similar situation. He liked to play Ace-x where x could easily be a low card.
Of course, in a tournament situation, this now meant that I was outstacked by the player to my left. When I pushed all-in with big cards, he could afford to call me with ho-hum cards and win out anyway. That's the way the game goes.
Dude, do you have some kind of obsessive compulsion about 2 pair flops?
Get help.