Right or wrong decision?

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12-06-2004, 10:08 AM
dalecooper

Right or wrong decision?

This Sat. night I was at a friend's house for a 13-player NL hold 'em tournament, single $10 buy-in. Initially we divided up into tables of 6 and 7, then combined tables after it was down to 4 at each of the two tables.

There was a friend of mine who I had never played with at my first table, and he was dominant there. Lots of large bets, a very controlled manner that tended to scare people off of calling him. A hand came along at one point where the short stack at our table went all in for 300 chips. I called his 300 from my stack of about 2000, with a pair of pocket 4s. This guy goes over the top of me for a bet larger than my stack, obviously trying to isolate the first guy's all in bet. To his surprise, I think, I called. He turned A9o, the first guy who went all in turned over a couple of face cards. I flopped 433 and that was that, I more than doubled up. This is just information for the next hand, not my question - I felt very comfortable with that call and the results were better than expected.

So after a bit we merged into a single 8 player table. One guy was eliminated swiftly. My stack was dwindling from a run of cold cards; at this point I believe I had a bit under 5000 in chips, which was several thousand behind anyone else at the table, and probably 1/3 of the two biggest stacks; and the blinds were at 200/400, rising every 30 minutes, with the next level of 300/600 coming up shortly. This is to give some explanation as to my decision on this sequence of events.

I was dealt KQo. I doubled the big blind bringing me down to about 4200. It went around with several calls, building the pot up to a couple thousand, and then my nemesis from the previous table raised it to 4500. This was far from the first time he had done this; generally if he pre-flop raised it was highly aggressive, and he took most pots down without a fight. For that reason I had no real read on his hand except for the prior instance with A9o. In this situation I felt like he didn't have kings or aces, and thought this might be my best chance to double up before I started seriously bleeding out. So I called him all-in (everyone else folded).

He turned over queens, which hit me where I lived. With just one over, I knew I was probably dead. No king came to save me and that was the end of the tourney for me. (I went on to play a ring game on the 2nd table, and made back most of my buy-in, so it wasn't a big loss.)

So the question: was this right or wrong? My feeling based on the blinds, speed of play, and size of my stack was that I did need to double up soon, but maybe this wasn't my best look. I probably had 3-4 more orbits before the situation became desperate. Thoughts?
12-06-2004, 10:14 AM
Corey

Nice straight flush btw.

Dale. Sounds like this guys just dominated man. Mixed up his aggressiveness when needed.

KQo I would have waited though. You werent short stacked at all.

Fold and play another day.
12-06-2004, 10:58 AM
dalecooper

Yeah, I agree with you. At the time I felt it was a calculated risk; shortly afterward I felt I miscalculated. I should have waited for a better opportunity.
12-06-2004, 11:29 AM
Darby

you might also want to stay out of 3 way all ins with a pair of 4's because at best you are up against probably 5 over cards, maybe even an overpair.
12-06-2004, 12:16 PM
jmrogers7

Dale - Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like that other guy just schooled you? What I mean by that is perhaps seeing him re-raise you with A9o in that previous hand planted a false sense of him simply making a play on the pot with aggression. So, perhaps maybe you thought this might be the hand to teach him a lesson.

I can't say that I fault you because it is human nature to want to show up the tourney aggressor. You just got played and he had the good hand he was waiting for at the moment he needed it in order to take advantage of the image he had built at the table.

I would say that even though you felt your chips dwindling away and the situation seemed like it warranted you making a move soon, you have to be willing to let a good hand like KQo go in a situation like that. Tough to do but necessary in your growth as a player.

That being said, I have made very similar calls like you did in the past in tourneys and have met the same fate. It's tough to do but with experience that laydown will become easier.

Welcome to the growing pains of being a poker player.
12-06-2004, 01:59 PM
dalecooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darby

you might also want to stay out of 3 way all ins with a pair of 4's because at best you are up against probably 5 over cards, maybe even an overpair.

True, but given the situation I figured I was stronger than the big bettor in this situation, and probably a coin flip vs. the smaller side pot on the original all in. In other words I knew when I called that there were two pots, and I expected to beat at least one of the two guys - ideally the guy with the most money in. It turned out better than that, obviously. That one truly was a calculated risk, but I couldn't at that early point in the tournament put in 1/6 of my short stack and then let mr. aggressive steal it. If I had let that one go with an actual hand, I very likely would have bled out before even getting to make another move (an instinct that proved to be correct, since I had no good hands and no large pots between that one & the one that put me out).
12-06-2004, 02:03 PM
dalecooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

Dale - Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like that other guy just schooled you? What I mean by that is perhaps seeing him re-raise you with A9o in that previous hand planted a false sense of him simply making a play on the pot with aggression. So, perhaps maybe you thought this might be the hand to teach him a lesson.

I can't say that I fault you because it is human nature to want to show up the tourney aggressor. You just got played and he had the good hand he was waiting for at the moment he needed it in order to take advantage of the image he had built at the table.

I agree with most of this, except I can say that my play wasn't really motivated by trying to get back at him. More than anything I was just feeling the pressure of being low man at the table, and knowing any of the remaining aggressive players left (and there were several) could put me all in at any point without seriously endangering themselves. I do think that he set me up for a hand like this, which is really one of the main functions of aggressive play - to get people to call you for the wrong reasons when your hand is strong. Usually that would be me initiating that dynamic, but not this time. He definitely got the better of me. I am not used to being short-stacked with that many people left, so I think I'm still working out for myself when a situation like that becomes truly desperate, and you just need to pick two and go.